More worries for Boyztown bar-owners

[Oliver2]

. Last evening , I watched as bar owners were instructed to move their over-spill tables and chairs, as well as their advertising boards into the bars, freeing-up the soi for two-way traffic. The only space for the bar-staff to leave their motor-cys is outside the defunct Care Royal.
At the moment, those tables and chairs aren't required- the soi is very quiet - but in the High Season, the area near Panorama and Serene is full of customers and the and for once, the bars are making money.
Is traffic going to be able to force itself down two lanes during the evenings? Is there enough space, even now when there are so few pedestrians? And what about our safety when we are competing for space in a narrow soi?
Lastly, where will the motor cys that used to block the entrance to the soi near Cupidol be parked?

Is it possible there's a good reason for this? If so, I'd love to hear it.

[mahjongguy]

Boyztown is different from Sunee and Jomtien Complex in one very important way: the streets and sidewalks of Pattayaland belong to the public.

[AsDaRa]

Boyztown is different from Sunee and Jomtien Complex in one very important way: the streets and sidewalks of Pattayaland belong to the public.

You have access to the Thailand land registry to know who owns which streets? So when I walk in Sunee on the street I walk on a privately owned street? Same for Jomtien? But I see motorbike taxis drive there. Are they violating the law: trespassing?

So when the street in Jomtien needs new pavement/asphalt the government doesn’t pay but the private owner?

[mahjongguy]

So when I walk in Sunee on the street I walk on a privately owned street? YES, and you will notice there are no sidewalks.

Same for Jomtien? YES

But I see motorbike taxis drive there. Are they violating the law: trespassing? NO, because the owner chooses to let them enter.

So when the street in Jomtien needs new pavement/asphalt the government doesn’t pay but the private owner? YES

Jomtien Complex and Sunee (and Day/Night Plaza) are big chunks of land owned, operated, and maintained by a private business. Encroachment of public spaces is not an issue because there are none.

In Boyztown, the streets and sidewalks are public and subject to management by City Hall.

[AsDaRa]

So when I walk in Sunee on the street I walk on a privately owned street? YES, and you will notice there are no sidewalks.

Same for Jomtien? YES

But I see motorbike taxis drive there. Are they violating the law: trespassing? NO, because the owner chooses to let them enter.

So when the street in Jomtien needs new pavement/asphalt the government doesn’t pay but the private owner? YES

Jomtien Complex and Sunee (and Day/Night Plaza) are big chunks of land owned, operated, and maintained by a private business. Encroachment of public spaces is not an issue because there are none.

In Boyztown, the streets and sidewalks are public and subject to management by City Hall.

Thank you. But how you know this? I don't know this for my own city in my country who owns what. And looking it up costs money (it is not a free service of the land registry).

I wonder if privately owned streets receive names from the government or are officially unnamed? Can a private owner of a large street make up his own name for it, for example naming it for himself, and that name will appear then on all maps world wide?

[mahjongguy]

Anyone can go to the Land Office office on Threpasit Soi 17 and request to see land titles (chanotes). It's free or nearly so, but the queue is daunting. I haven't done that for these properties, I had no reason to do that, but I've lived here for many years and as I go around I notice what's public and what isn't. There are plenty of visual clues. The type of streetlights, presence of speed bumps, signage, and much more. I've also spoken with some who rent space in Jomtien Complex, and there have been plenty of board threads about Sunee over the years.

Property, how it's managed (or isn't) is just an interest of mine. And even though I'm not a citizen, I tend to mutter and grumble about encroachment, usually because it means I have to stumble out into traffic.

Street names and maps are a fuzzier thing here than in Peoria or Slough. In Thailand, a public street will usually have a small blue sign. I've never seen an official government map of Pattaya. Google and others show streets that are open to the public without indicating if they are actually public property.

Anyway, back to the topic, don't be concerned about Boyztown. Pushbacks on encroachment are like a hard rain in December. They are rare and don't last long.

[scottish-guy]

.....Can a private owner of a large street make up his own name for it, for example naming it for himself, and that name will appear then on all maps world wide?

You'll give SGT members ideas!

One day we could wake up to find Arsenal Avenue, ColmX Crescent, LatintopXXX Lane, Bobsaigon Boulevard, Ronan Road, Smiles Street, or a Travellerjim Terrace!

[MiniMee]

If you had visited Shitsville more than once in the past decade, you might have been honored by Soi Scottie

[scottish-guy]

Being a shy and self-deprecating sort of chap I didn't like to include myself in the list - but Soi Scottie does seem apposite and with a show of fake reluctance worthy of an Oscar nomination I would accept it

Anyway - John F Kennedy has a Strasse in Berlin and he visited that wonderful city far less often than I've visited Pattaya :p.

[francois]

I wonder if privately owned streets receive names from the government or are officially unnamed? Can a private owner of a large street make up his own name for it, for example naming it for himself, and that name will appear then on all maps world wide?

Absolutely, although I can't answer whether all maps will be labeled world wide.

[AsDaRa]

Anyone can go to the Land Office office on Threpasit Soi 17 and request to see land titles (chanotes). It's free or nearly so, but the queue is daunting.

I wonder why so many people in Pattaya want to know who owns what plot of land (I mean why else the queue). Or the queue is maybe for other reasons also then just looking up who owns what in Pattaya.

[AsDaRa]

Absolutely, although I can't answer whether all maps will be labeled world wide.

I also wonder how map makers world wide receive the information for street names. Say the Pattaya City Council decides to rename a street.
Is there an official protocol to register this update in some kind of central database. Google and all the many many many mapmakers in the world look into that database for their maps of Thailand or Thailand cities?
In Google members can propose updates, but you also have companies who publish maps without public input. An own internal departement there does the creation and update. How will they know a street has been renamed, so they can update their map? it is not doable to call every village, hamlet and city in the world if they recently updated a street name. So how does this process work?

In Amsterdam a soccer stadium has recently been renamed to Johan Cruijff Arena. Curious if in 10 years time many newly published maps still show the old name. Who knows how this process works?

[newalaan2]

Boyztown is different from Sunee and Jomtien Complex in one very important way: the streets and sidewalks of Pattayaland belong to the public.

I too wasn't aware of Boyztown being not privately owned until my last trip when I witnessed all the ground works going on in the Pattayaland streets. I was always under the impression that the Boyztown soi was part of the land belonging to the buildings there. That idea was reinforced because from when I first started visiting Pattaya back in 2000 the street was often closed off on a whim for street parties etc.. when Mdme Jim was ruling over the soi.

The 'good reason' for this might be that the local authorities having spent a very large amount of public cash to cover all the recent costs of the soi groundworks now probably feel 'obliged' to the general public to be seen to be making it more accessible. The great advantage of course is that ever more packs/hoards/throngs of Chinese gawkers can be led along the soi in larger numbers now with the freed up access. 'Seen to be doing things' is an important part of the game in Thailand.

Although 2-way traffic in BT Soi 3? even with everything cleared out of the way that would be a push. Interesting heads up Oliver.

[arsenal]

Once, just once I would like to hear of a new policy implementation from 'the authorities' that I agree with. I can't see who this will benefit unless they want to start charging for placing tables/chairs on their shiny new road.

[colmx]

I would guess that these are temporary measures due to the closure of beach road to traffic on Fri & sat for the international fireworks festival?

[Oliver2]

One of those affected said they'd been told that it was 3000 bht per table per month. This answers my original question as to who benefits. One thing is obvious; we won't. Nor will those who run the bars.

[mahjongguy]

I wonder why so many people in Pattaya want to know who owns what plot of land (I mean why else the queue). Or the queue is maybe for other reasons also then just looking up who owns what in Pattaya.

As a member of the homeowner's association I once went to the Land Office and had them pull the chanotes for all 70 properties in our mooban. We made copies for our records and even uncovered some useful contact info.

Of course many go there to buy or sell or lease property.

[scottish-guy]

....I wonder why so many people in Pattaya want to know who owns what....

It's purely a gay thing - they fear running low on gossip-ammunition

[aot871]

I cant see why bars need over spill areas at the moment , due to lack of farangs in both boys town and sunnie

[scottish-guy]

At the moment there is only very light traffic in these sois - no doubt due is considerable part to the fact that they have been difficult to navigate.

If the intention is, by restricting tables etc, to open these sois up to a heavier flow of through traffic then my cynicism over the quality of Thai municipal works leads to me to believe that the recent sewerage/drainage works will probably fracture and eventually collapse under the weight of increased traffic - and perhaps sooner rather than later

Or, just as likely, give it a couple of months and the tables and chairs will be back

[paborn]

I might be wrong in this. But, I've read over the years that Patpong is named for the Patpong family who own every square inch. Those are not city sois but just part of the complex.

[Brad the Impala]

Patpong was indeed owned and created by the Patpong family. I had some dealings with Udom Patpong, the prime mover in it's development. He seemed a gentlemanly sort of chap, educated in England and then in the States. A most unlikely person to be responsible for creating what once seemed to be the sex centre of the world!

[gerefan2]

. Last evening , I watched as bar owners were instructed to move their over-spill tables and chairs, as well as their advertising boards into the bars, freeing-up the soi for two-way traffic.
.

By who?

[paborn]

Patpong was indeed owned and created by the Patpong family. I had some dealings with Udom Patpong, the prime mover in it's development. He seemed a gentlemanly sort of chap, educated in England and then in the States. A most unlikely person to be responsible for creating what once seemed to be the sex centre of the world!

Oh, I don't know. I'm university educated, well read and, I think, a " gentlemanly sort of chap" and I would have built a boy toy complex. Can't think of a better gift to humanity.

[poshglasgow]

Being a shy and self-deprecating sort of chap I didn't like to include myself in the list - but Soi Scottie does seem apposite and with a show of fake reluctance worthy of an Oscar nomination I would accept it

Anyway - John F Kennedy has a Strasse in Berlin and he visited that wonderful city far less often than I've visited Pattaya :p.

"a self-deprecating sort of chap": I wonder if Pat Pong was of a similar disposition?

[scottish-guy]

Pat Pong?

Was he that Irishman I witnessed shit himself on the terrace of LCR after sitting drinking numerous glasses of Rum & Pep on a day when the temperature exceeded 40c?

He also projectile vomited at the same time - with his dentures ending up almost in the doorway of Funny Boys.

He was wearing light coloured shorts too.

True story.

[poshglasgow]

Pat Pong?

Was he that Irishman I witnessed shit himself on the terrace of LCR after sitting drinking numerous glasses of Rum & Pep on a day when the temperature exceeded 40c?

He also projectile vomited at the same time - with his dentures ending up almost in the doorway of Funny Boys.

He was wearing light coloured shorts too.

True story.

Wearing light coloured shorts while drinking... dark coloured shorts!!

"...with his dentures ending up almost in the doorway of Funny Boys." The tooth fairy? (Fangs for the memory).

[pennyboy]

I would guess that these are temporary measures due to the closure of beach road to traffic on Fri & sat for the international fireworks festival?

Sadly I don't think that's the case as as the Sois have been painted with white lines and arrows indicating two lanes and yellow marking on the corners.

[Up2U]

The BT soi was always two ways, a car or taxi could enter from 2nd Rd. or get there from Beach Rd. using Soi 13/4(ABomb) Soi. Of course, mb's have there own set of rules. The sois connecting 2nd and Beach Rds. are one way and the directions are staggered. Just looks like the parking rules will enforced (for about a month anyway).

[Oliver2]

I misinterpreted the signs in my original post. It is now clear from the arrows that the one-way system is being maintained in all three sois. By "maintained" I mean (as Up2U points out) ignored when inconvenient.

[scottish-guy]

Whether the sois are one-way, two-way, or they install a roundabout, the impression we are getting from recent reports is that BT is heading down the Suwannee (how curiously Thai the name of that American river looks/sounds)

When large numbers of customers are openly boasting of using Apps to secure their fun (and you can't blame them for trying to avoid expensive off fees, poor selection of boys, and ever higher drinks prices), and the would-be providers of the fun are increasingly using the same technology, business owners surely cannot survive on 2 "busy" months a year - which is what BT seems to be reduced to.

You can argue over the running order but it boils down to: the fewer the customers, the fewer the boys, and the fewer the venues. It used to be the case that many of the bars were vanity projects for expats with very deep pockets but I think that's no longer true (at least to the same extent) and when the bars aren't making money these days, they close.

Going by the reports on the forums, only BoyzBoyzBoyz seems to be regularly busy but their overheads must be enormous, so who knows whether it makes a fortune, breaks even, or struggles. Other venues which have not succumbed already seem to be on life support.

Frankly, I read very little in the current reports that would ever tempt me back. (MiniMee enters from stage right)

[arsenal]

Perhaps my recent thread didn't make it clear that there's loads of fun and great restaurants to be had in Pattaya other than go go bars. Which, if you're in a bona fide relationship would surely have no interest for you anyway.

[scottish-guy]

No doubt some pithy comment (damn that gay lithp) - maybe someone will quote it

[arsenal]

No one needs to. Rumbled. Hahaha.

[scottish-guy]

Plus d'effluents sans doute

[dinagam]

Effluents - treated or untreated?

[aot871]

boys town is played out now a days , what with high drink prices and off fees, boys all playing on their phones , looking for offs

[arsenal]

Creepy Scat Boy rides again. In French now but still his favourite subject.

[Oliver2]

We've been in Pattaya over a week now and we also spent two days in Jomtien. It is undeniable that Boyztown lacks vibrancy and the closed bars are dispiriting to say the least.
. But we've enjoyed ourselves; the ever-increasing restaurant scene, the malls and Sansuk have all given pleasure and we've found Big C in 2nd Road a particularly enjoyable place to spend a couple of hours in the evening. It's a lot more lively than during the day with many Thai families; it is noticeable that there are child-friendly facilities there. While Central is aimed at the more affluent tourist; Big C seems a more local and friendly place to us, particularly now that there are now more restaurants.

I am no judge of the Boyztown go-go bars- it's been years since I've entered one- but I did take advantage of P's early night a few days ago to look at Winners and Nice in Sunee. A friend back home had been asking me to do so for some time.
Winners had twelve punters at about 2230 and maybe fifteen twinks. The atmosphere was lively and full of humour....it reminded me of places like Cockpit in the late 90s. Much smaller of course.
Incidentally, the 79bht I paid for a Diet Coke was much the same as I paid in Cockpit all those years ago. I don't have the opportunity to visit go go bars nowadays- nor, truth be told, much of an inclination to do so, but if I were to spend an evening in one, my choice would be Winners.

Nice had more than twenty guys on the podium. No dancing, alas; that more or less disappeared from Thailand a decade ago. And they were, in my estimation, all straight. I didn't like the guys' use of mobile porn for personal stimulation, nor the tattoos. In short, Nice wasn't my cup of tea.....but I can't deny that the atmosphere was vibrant, with lots of interaction with the customers (some of it of questionable taste) and the twenty minutes I spent there was certainly not boring.

Sunee was quiet but these two bars had plenty to offer to gay visitors with differing tastes. They indicate that there is still market for such bars, if well-run. And as for Pattaya itself, we have already booked-up two further visits, one of them in the High Season which will be particularly important for gay businesses this year, I sense.

[arsenal]

Great post Oliver and it mirrors my findings recently.

[scottish-guy]

Spending 2 hours walking round a shopping mall and admiring their child friendly facilities is not everybody's idea of the ideal holiday Oliver - but each to his own I guess.

[francois]

Frankly, I read very little in the current reports that would ever tempt me back. (MiniMee enters from stage right)

Your Thai boyfriend must be pleased about that?

[francois]

Perhaps my recent thread didn't make it clear that there's loads of fun and great restaurants to be had in Pattaya other than go go bars. Which, if you're in a bona fide relationship would surely have no interest for you anyway.

Not true arsenal.

[Nirish guy]

if you're in a bona fide relationship would surely have no interest for you anyway.

You seem permanently overly interested in judging and commenting on other peoples relationships as if what YOU think about how relationships work is the "only" way they possibly can and those that dont meet your perception of that are perhaps somewhat "less than" in your narrow world view - I wonder, is it something thats lacking in your own life maybe that makes you so interested in other peoples relationships perhaps or do you just feel superior in some way and so you think it affords you some right to comment - if so you are of course very wrong about that.

[arsenal]

If your relationship with your 'boyfriemd' is so fantastic why do you care what I think? Which you clearly and inexplicably do.

[cdnmatt]

If your relationship with your 'boyfriemd' is so fantastic why do you care what I think? Which you clearly and inexplicably do.


Because he's a mammal, hence a social animal, and his relationship is quite important to his life, hence to talks about it?

I don't know, just a guess.

Don't you have some microwaved lasanga with two week old garlic bread to eat at one of Pattaya's fine dining establihments to eat?

[scottish-guy]

Your Thai boyfriend must be pleased about that?

I don't have a Thai boyfriend - he's Vietnamese - but other than that you're right!

[scottish-guy]

...Don't you have some microwaved lasanga with two week old garlic bread to eat at one of Pattaya's fine dining establihments to eat?

And write about, post pics of, and generally bore the arse off everbody with....

[arsenal]

Matt's arrival in any thread is the cue for a shed load of nonsense to follow so.....au revoir.