Cultural Misunderstanding?

[Loki]

Expats from many nations have been attracted to Thailand for work and retirement.
Culture in Thailand is often characterized as "very accommodating" however, when Thais interact with farangs, it's not unusual for the farang to be perceived as acting in an ignorant and rude manner.
When people of different nationalities interact, misunderstandings may ensue.
Anyone have amusing anecdotes brought on by a simple cultural misunderstanding?

[cdnmatt]

An antedote? Yeah, if you're going to move half way across the world, learn to be open minded.

Just because you happen to be used to doing things a certain way, doesn't make it the right and only way to do it. Due to the financial disparitythough, it's difficult to explain to Westerners the pros and cons of SE Asia I find. For example, I'll try to explain the benefits of a more sommunal society such as Thailand provides, and will get met with remarks like, "well, that's because it's a 3rd world country, and they're very reliant on each other". No, actually because having a communal society such as that benefits everyone.

[Loki]

Matt, do you believe the act of moving across the world, which would cause fear and trepidation in most people, points to a certain openness of mind ?
And if not openness of mind, certainly a spirit of adventure.
By gathering in expat communities, don't we reinforce our native cultural norms, and discount the cultural norms of the host country?

[cdnmatt]

Depends. What do you mean by "expat communities"? A gay gogo bay in Sunnee Plaza isn't really much of an expat community.

[Loki]

I was thinking in terms of workers, retirees and others who have chosen to live outside their native country's.
The thought of an expat gogo boy community never entered my mind...guess you like to think outside the box,eh?
:yes:

[scottish-guy]

Maybe he meant expat gogo bar community.

The kind that frequent gogo bars and have regular get-togethers over a meatloaf?

:p

[cdnmatt]

I was thinking in terms of workers, retirees and others who have chosen to live outside their native country's.
The thought of an expat gogo boy community never entered my mind...guess you like to think outside the box,eh?
:yes:


Ummm, no.... for SGT, I think in the confines of a bunch of older dudes debating gogo bar drink prices and appropriate off fees for hookers. That type of thing is "inside the box", because that's generally all you people talk about. I guess there's the seldom post about Yupin's and their 5 day old day turkeys they sell, but that's pretty much it.\

Outside of the box would have been my previous life in Khon Kaen, where I did actually experience Thailand outside of the bars and tourist
vacations. Most people on the other hand simply view Thailand as a place to get cheap and uneducated ass, but tittle do they know, Asia is taking over, and quickly.

[christianpfc]

Cultural misunderstanding?

When we make an appointment in the West, we mean "estimated time of arrival", whereas in Thailand, the given time is understand as "estimated time of departure".

[Loki]

Maybe he meant expat gogo bar community.

The kind that frequent gogo bars and have regular get-togethers over a meatloaf?

:p

Are you trying to get Francois furieux by disparaging the vaunted meatloaf?
:eek:

[Loki]

Cultural misunderstanding?

When we make an appointment in the West, we mean "estimated time of arrival", whereas in Thailand, the given time is understand as "estimated time of departure".

Have experienced the same in South America and the Middle East...however only in a non-business context.

[Loki]

Ummm, no.... for SGT, I think in the confines of a bunch of older dudes debating gogo bar drink prices and appropriate off fees for hookers. That type of thing is "inside the box", because that's generally all you people talk about. I guess there's the seldom post about Yupin's and their 5 day old day turkeys they sell, but that's pretty much it.\

Outside of the box would have been my previous life in Khon Kaen, where I did actually experience Thailand outside of the bars and tourist
vacations. Most people on the other hand simply view Thailand as a place to get cheap and uneducated ass, but tittle do they know, Asia is taking over, and quickly.

In your previous life in Khon Kaen, apart from the bars and sex tourists, did you feel you'd become so integrated with the culture, that no cultural misunderstandings arose?

[Loki]

Maybe he meant expat gogo bar community.

The kind that frequent gogo bars and have regular get-togethers over a meatloaf?

:p

You're no doubt correct about the "bar" community. Guess I need a Matt translator !
;)

[cdnmatt]

In your previous life in Khon Kaen, apart from the bars and sex tourists, did you feel you'd become so integrated with the culture, that no cultural misunderstandings arose?


Well, of course cultural misunderstandings arose. I'm not arrogant enough to think I fully understand Thai culture and Buddhism. Nothing that really ever caused much of a problem though, because as it turns out, Thai people were able to tell I'm not Thai, hence give me leeway.

However, I am quite confident I understand the culture quite a bit better than most people on this forum.

Why do you think Leo and myself worked out so well? I was capable of empathizing with him, and understand where he's coming from.

[francois]

Why do you think Leo and myself worked out so well? I was capable of empathizing with him, and understand where he's coming from.

Really? Some of your posts indicate quite the difference.

[Loki]

Well, of course cultural misunderstandings arose. I'm not arrogant enough to think I fully understand Thai culture and Buddhism. Nothing that really ever caused much of a problem though, because as it turns out, Thai people were able to tell I'm not Thai, hence give me leeway.

However, I am quite confident I understand the culture quite a bit better than most people on this forum.

Why do you think Leo and myself worked out so well? I was capable of empathizing with him, and understand where he's coming from.

Can you recall any amusing events, brought about by cultural misunderstandings between you and Leo?
Is your passport dilemma situation improving... how long before you'll be able to return to SE Asia?

[Loki]

Cultural misunderstanding?

When we make an appointment in the West, we mean "estimated time of arrival", whereas in Thailand, the given time is understand as "estimated time of departure".

Christianpfc, have you found the above to be true in social meetings only, or in both social and business meetings?
I would imagine business would require punctuality.

[cdnmatt]

Can you recall any amusing events, brought about by cultural misunderstandings between you and Leo?
Is your passport dilemma situation improving... how long before you'll be able to return to SE Asia?


Cultural differences between Leo and myself? Not really, to be honest. Once we met I had already lived in Thailand for 6 years, so could speak Thai with him, knew exactly what village life as a rice farmer was like, had a decent understanding of family life and obligations, the precepts of Buddhism, the Buddhist holidays / festivals, etc. If anything, I would say it took more effort to make him realize I understood his world view than to actually understand it. Plus he's a pretty open minded and independent individual who is open to learning, so that naturally helped.

As for cultural differences in general? Again, I'd say the largest one is getting over the fact I no longer have privacy, and when people stop me on the street and begin asking questions, not to feel as though they're interrogating me. Instead, realize they're just playing their small role in taking care of the community and ensuring I don't need any help, and everything stays safe and peaceful, etc.
n
The other would have been several times trying to offer money to people after they helped me out. For a good while after going blind I would push my boundaries and limitations a little more than I should thinking I could do it on my own, only to get lost and disorientated. Some random stranger would always help me out, and I'd offer money, and most times they would either scowl at me, or very reluctantly take it. Upon getting home and telling Leo the story, he'd always get pissed off at me, and tell me to never offer money like that again because it's extremely rude, and if someone helps, it's just because they want to help.

I guess cooking was maybe another one, but that was easy to solve. Just put chilli paste in everything, and it magically turns delicious in his eyes. :)

[Loki]

Matt, thanks for your insights.
Your reverence for Thai culture and Buddhism distinguishes you from the average farang visiting Thailand.
I hope your passport problems are solved quickly, so you can get back home and resume your life with Leo.
Any update on your passport renewal?

[cdnmatt]

Any update on your passport renewal?

I have no idea, and don't want to think about it. Right now, I need to concentrate on work.

Both of us are in a pretty bad spot right now, and I'm uncertain if we'll be able to pull ourselves out, and even get back together again. It's not that we don't love each other or anything, but just everything is a mess at the moment.

This would be a lot easier if I could just fucken see again, but that's not going to happen, so....

[scottish-guy]

... Some random stranger would always help me out, and I'd offer money, and most times they would either scowl at me, or....

I know how this is going to go - it's just a matter of who jumps in first

[cdnmatt]

I know how this is going to go - it's just a matter of who jumps in first


Yeah, same here. You get used to it though.

If people want to exclaim they know Thailand and its culture because they've been to Pattaya a bunch of times, up to them. That's kind of the equivalent of saying the red light district in Amsterdam speaks for all of the Netherlands. That would obviously be a really stupid thing to say, but just watch.... won't surprise me in the slightests if someone jumps in to let us know all Thai people are unintelligent, poverty striken, money grubbing liars.

[francois]

Some random stranger would always help me out, and I'd offer money, and most times they would either scowl at me, or very reluctantly take it.



So they would scowl at you? Now how would you know that?

[cdnmatt]

Because they raised their tone of voice?

[francois]

Oh, did they raise the tone of their voice to you? Interesting.

[scottish-guy]

So they would scowl at you? Now how would you know that?

See post #20

:D

[justaguy]

Cultural differences between Leo and myself? Not really, to be honest. Once we met I had already lived in Thailand for 6 years, so could speak Thai with him, knew exactly what village life as a rice farmer was like, had a decent understanding of family life and obligations, the precepts of Buddhism, the Buddhist holidays / festivals, etc. If anything, I would say it took more effort to make him realize I understood his world view than to actually understand it. Plus he's a pretty open minded and independent individual who is open to learning, so that naturally helped.

As for cultural differences in general? Again, I'd say the largest one is getting over the fact I no longer have privacy, and when people stop me on the street and begin asking questions, not to feel as though they're interrogating me. Instead, realize they're just playing their small role in taking care of the community and ensuring I don't need any help, and everything stays safe and peaceful, etc.
n
The other would have been several times trying to offer money to people after they helped me out. For a good while after going blind I would push my boundaries and limitations a little more than I should thinking I could do it on my own, only to get lost and disorientated. Some random stranger would always help me out, and I'd offer money, and most times they would either scowl at me, or very reluctantly take it. Upon getting home and telling Leo the story, he'd always get pissed off at me, and tell me to never offer money like that again because it's extremely rude, and if someone helps, it's just because they want to help.

I guess cooking was maybe another one, but that was easy to solve. Just put chilli paste in everything, and it magically turns delicious in his eyes. :)

You crack me up every time. Remember the sleeping in the village thread, you vastly overestimate your knowledge of culture and customs in Thailand, let alone in lowland Lao.


But to your defense, the Lao would first have to allow you entry into their beautiful country before you can brush up on your knowledge :)