lady boys

[aot871]

I have noted that ladyboys have started appearing on gay romeo. Has any one ever taken a ladyboy or a very fem boy off for a change?

[gerefan2]

yes, why?

[Maxxy]

Yes had many a ladyboy, mostly from the bars though

[nordicguy]

I prefer 'real' Asian boys, but I've tried many Asian femboys. No Asian ladyboys. The 'fem' feature is usually accosiated with a more 'slutty' or 'porn-like' attitude in bed I feel.

[AsDaRa]

I prefer 'real' Asian boys, but I've tried many Asian femboys. No Asian ladyboys. The 'fem' feature is usually accosiated with a more 'slutty' or 'porn-like' attitude in bed I feel.

Aren't fem boys also considered technically to be a ladyboy?
Or for you a ladyboy is a boy who has had surgery to get breasts implanted for example? Or even have 'her' penis removed?

I thought the concept of 'ladyboy' in Thailand encapsulates all of the below:
1) cross dressers
2) very femine boys
3) boys who had had surgery to get breasts implanted
4) like 3 but penis removed and vagina added

Aren't they all 4 considered 'ladyboys'?

[francois]

Femme boys are not lady boys, at least to me.

[AsDaRa]

But boys who are fem AND at the same time dress like a lady, are for you ladyboys? Or you need to have at least breasts implanted in your view?

[nordicguy]

I thought the concept of 'ladyboy' in Thailand encapsulates all of the below:
1) cross dressers
2) very femine boys
3) boys who had had surgery to get breasts implanted
4) like 3 but penis removed and vagina added

Aren't they all 4 considered 'ladyboys'?

I cannot speak on behalf of the Thais as they have a fundamentally different view on these things, but from my point of view, only no. 1 (dressing up fluly like girls) and 3 (dressing like girls and with tits) are the true ladyboys. No. 2 (femboys) are just plain gay boys who are very feminine and no. 4 are plain transexuals who has changed their physical gender by surgery.

I've fucked quite a few femboys and usually they 'perform' really well in bed (as bottoms). I've never met a femboy who was boring in bed. I don't have sex with boys dressing up purely as girls. I find the high heels, nail polish, fake eyelashes and girl's miniskirts and tops really silly on a boy. I've once tried meeting up with a ladyboys without tits but dressing like a girl. I could see through his 'outfit' and I could see that a beautiful boy was hidden behind this custome. I took it all off him in bed in 60 seconds and I had the most wonderful sex (the whole package) with the most beautiful brown, smooth, sexy super slim young femboy.

[a447]

The straight guys in the bars refer to fem boys as "ladyboys."

I always thought ladyboys were much more than just guys who acted feminine.

[nordicguy]

The straight guys in the bars refer to fem boys as "ladyboys."

Yes, and those 'straight' white guys are really bisexual men in denial. They like boys but it's convienient to apply the the concept of 'ladyboys' on femboys because then they are not really gay, right?


I always thought ladyboys were much more than just guys who acted feminine. Agree 100%. It has to involve playing more with the gender than just being femine as a boy.

Here's a famous example of a sexy femboy. Mon Kwan from PrivateBoyMovie.
6994
6995

[DonMuang]

Here's a famous example of a sexy femboy. Mon Kwan from PrivateBoyMovie.
6994[/QUOTE]

Beautiful Mon!
Maybe at times he was the most fucked boy in Pattaya.
Left us one year already :cray_mini:

[paborn]

Aren't fem boys also considered technically to be a ladyboy?
Or for you a ladyboy is a boy who has had surgery to get breasts implanted for example? Or even have 'her' penis removed?

I thought the concept of 'ladyboy' in Thailand encapsulates all of the below:
1) cross dressers
2) very femine boys
3) boys who had had surgery to get breasts implanted
4) like 3 but penis removed and vagina added

Aren't they all 4 considered 'ladyboys'?
No, femine boys are not lady boys to me, not by any measure.

[gerefan2]

Here's a famous example of a sexy femboy. Mon Kwan from PrivateBoyMovie.
6994

Beautiful Mon!
Maybe at times he was the most fucked boy in Pattaya.
Left us one year already :cray_mini:[/QUOTE]

Never came across him...where did he work? Or was he on the apps?

[neddy3]

No, femine boys are not lady boys to me, not by any measure.

That's how I see it.

A ladyboy wears female clothing.
A feminine boy dresses as a male.

Gay boys and man boys also dress as a male, but their behaviour is different.

[nordicguy]

Beautiful Mon! Maybe at times he was the most fucked boy in Pattaya. Left us one year already

I think this beautiful femboy ended up as a real ladyboy, but maybe @DonMuang knows more?

He was one of the last new models to be featured on the PrivateBoyMovie site, and he got very popular there and the site owner made more scenes with him afterwards. I remember when I saw his first scene, I felt a very strong desire to find him and be with him. Not only was he cute and beautiful but also seemingly every farang's dream of a Thai bottom boy. But I never found him anywhere. Not in BKK, not in Pattaya, not in Patong etc. Never in any dating apps and I never saw him on PlanetRomeo either.

[colmx]

NordicGuy:
DonMuang means that Mon is dead around a year ago

Mon worked in Euroboys when it was a gogo bar (possibly also in Cocktail Boys... the boys in those 2 bars seemed to interchange a lot)
He then ended up in MicMy(now Powerboys) before moving home to Buriram to work as a hotel receptionist

When he lived in Pattaya he was very often found on GayRomeo

[nordicguy]

NordicGuy:
... Mon worked in Euroboys when it was a gogo bar .... When he lived in Pattaya he was very often found on GayRomeo

Thanks for translating to me. I suspected he might mean exactly that but I wasn't sure so I asked. I'm really sorry to hear that and feel a bit strange inside myself even though I didn't know the boy. May he rest in peace, this beautiful boy.

I've been at PR for very long, but never saw him there, but then again I only check boys who are online and only when I'm there....

[gerefan2]

NordicGuy:
He then ended up in MicMy(now Powerboys) before moving home to Buriram to work as a hotel receptionist


Ah, that why I never came across him, I'm (self) banned from MicMy and/or Powerboys.
Cunt of a Mamasan...

[AsDaRa]

Beautiful Mon!
Maybe at times he was the most fucked boy in Pattaya.
Left us one year already :cray_mini:

He died? What happened?

[DonMuang]

He died? What happened?

His friend told me he died of a lung disease (ILD) in a hospital on February 2017 :(

[DonMuang]

For remembrance of Mon

https://www.facebook.com/ipinkgalaxy

[nordicguy]

For remembrance of Mon

Thanks, DonMuang. I'm really sad to hear this. I've watched his scenes at PrivateBoyMovie countless of times. I recall that I really, really wanted to try to be with him and to fuck him, but I never found him before it was too late. He was not just an ordinary Pattaya boy, that's very clear to me now - he was a special boy and the fact that we're talking about him here in this board also confirms this. Not all boys of Pattaya are talked about years after their "career". He gave a lot of farangs a really good time inside and outside the bedroom, it seems. May he rest in peace.

His scenes are still available at PBM and that's also a good way to keep the memory of him alive - to watch his wonderful scenes where this Pattaya amateur twink performed better than most professional gay porn stars. Any of you guys met him IRL? Did you, DonMuang?

[goji]

Here's a famous example of a sexy femboy. Mon Kwan from PrivateBoyMovie.
6994


A fine example of a fem boy. Just the type I like.

As for the other type, well I've never been with a lady boy. So far. Now another ex Euro Boy has recently had some breasts added, so the next trip might just be the first time.

[Yraen]

But boys who are fem AND at the same time dress like a lady, are for you ladyboys? Or you need to have at least breasts implanted in your view?

Doesn't sissyboy cover the guys who are effeminate but who still like to be/dress as boys?

[Captain Swing]

Thanks, DonMuang. I'm really sad to hear this. I've watched his scenes at PrivateBoyMovie countless of times. I recall that I really, really wanted to try to be with him and to fuck him, but I never found him before it was too late. He was not just an ordinary Pattaya boy, that's very clear to me now - he was a special boy and the fact that we're talking about him here in this board also confirms this. Not all boys of Pattaya are talked about years after their "career". He gave a lot of farangs a really good time inside and outside the bedroom, it seems. May he rest in peace.

His scenes are still available at PBM and that's also a good way to keep the memory of him alive - to watch his wonderful scenes where this Pattaya amateur twink performed better than most professional gay porn stars. Any of you guys met him IRL? Did you, DonMuang?

Am I the only one who finds this post offensive? "Gee, it's a shame he died before I got a chance to fuck him."

[Loki]

Am I the only one who finds this post offensive? "Gee, it's a shame he died before I got a chance to fuck him."

In the urgent desire to have an orgasm, the little head trumped the big head !
Yes...the post mentioned, registered high in the crass department.
:blush:

[gerefan2]

Am I the only one who finds this post offensive? "Gee, it's a shame he died before I got a chance to fuck him."

Except that is NOT what he said...

He put it a little more politely than Captain Swing has suggested which somewhat negates his criticism.

I'd say it was unfortunate what nordicguy said, and he may have been better advised to have deleted the words "and to fuck him" from what he ACTUALLY wrote.

[Loki]

Except that is NOT what he said...

He put it a little more politely than Captain Swing has suggested which somewhat negates his criticism.

I'd say it was unfortunate what nordicguy said, and he may have been better advised to have deleted the words "and to fuck him" from what he ACTUALLY wrote.

I stand corrected. Thanks gerefan2.
However on re-examination, what Captain Swing wrote, while not being a direct quote... is a pretty fair summation !!

[Captain Swing]

Except that is NOT what he said...

He put it a little more politely than Captain Swing has suggested which somewhat negates his criticism.

I'd say it was unfortunate what nordicguy said, and he may have been better advised to have deleted the words "and to fuck him" from what he ACTUALLY wrote.

I wasn't pretending it was an exact quote: I included the original quote so that wasn't hard to figure out. Mine was my more blunt and succinct summary of the sentiment I drew from the original, which, as I said, I found offensive. If you didn't, so be it.

[Smiles]

Not sure about "offensive", but regarding Nordic, I can feel, or smell, the possibilities of an internet troll. Nordic is a new member (May/18) and has made 39 posts, all of them about fucking and nothing else, and especially he seems to be a creepy worshipper of the PrivateBoyMovie website which is nothing but twinks twinks twinks ... who knows what age, but they are mostly pretty young.

" ... I've watched his scenes at PrivateBoyMovie countless of times ... " This one creeps me out:

" ... a good way to keep the memory of him alive - to watch his wonderful scenes (on PrivateBoyMovie)..."

[nordicguy]

[QUOTE=Smiles;242333]Not sure about "offensive", but regarding Nordic, I can feel, or smell, the possibilities of an internet troll ..."

Sorry, this was really not my intention. I just got a little hooked on this forum as the debates were quite interesting. I will keep a low profile now. Have a great weekend - even though you don't really seem to like my posts here.

Cheers and hugs

[nordicguy]

Am I the only one who finds this post offensive? "Gee, it's a shame he died before I got a chance to fuck him."

Yes, reading it again .. I actually have to say you're right. It's a bit shameless, even though it really wasn't meant that way. Unforuntately, i can't seem to delete it now? I didn't think it through.... :-(

[Captain Swing]

Yes, reading it again .. I actually have to say you're right. It's a bit shameless, even though it really wasn't meant that way. Unforuntately, i can't seem to delete it now? I didn't think it through.... :-(

Spoken like a gentleman.

[AsDaRa]

Spoken like a gentleman.

But what makes the sin in your eyes? The thought: "too bad he died before I could fuck him", or writing the thought down? Or both?

The first is hard to suppress. Thoughts just pop up . I have sometimes thoughts I am embarressed about but can't help having them, like: "I hope Thailand stays relatively poor, this makes it cheap for me to get lot of sex with hot Asian boys".

I am not proud of it, but if in every country in the world the normal escort price for the boys of my type (cute twinky Asians) was say 400 EUR per hour, I would I have a big problem. So we all PROFIT from the situation in Thailand that we can fuck our types, for - for us - cheap prices.

So secretly we wish deep down that we hope these cheap prices continue. But this necessarily means we all hope Thailand will for the time being not approach Western European levels of wellfare. I am not proud of this, in fact I hate thinking it, but when you are honest to yourself, what do you prefer: 400 EUR per hour for an escort or 25 EUR? And the last you only will get in relatively poor countries. So you want countries to be poor?

There is a dilemma here. Curious to other peoples views.

[cdnmatt]

Curious to other peoples views.

I think that's one of those things that make you decide the person you want to see in the mirror every morning when you wake up.

I know I'm quite hypocritical in saying that, but what the hell, people change.

[scottish-guy]

..and especially he seems to be a creepy worshipper of the PrivateBoyMovie website which is nothing but twinks twinks twinks ... who knows what age, but they are mostly pretty young...

I have only looked at these movies in clips as they do not appeal to me one little bit.

It's not the youthfulness of the "performers" that puts me off (I'm sure they're all of legal age for sexual activity at least - dunno about Thai porn laws) it's the penchant the film-maker apparently has for showing boys in discomfort/pain, with gaping bungholes etc. I've no idea if the expressions of pain are real or not but it concerns me that anyone should find that sexually arousing.

I find that far more weird than whether they look 18 or 17 and I've always assumed that those movies with their quasi S&M element appeal to a particular type of person

[snotface]

Thoughts just pop up . I have sometimes thoughts I am embarressed about but can't help having them, like: "I hope Thailand stays relatively poor, this makes it cheap for me to get lot of sex with hot Asian boys".


Kudos to you for being prepared to admit to such a thought. I doubt whether there is a contributor to this board who has not had the same thought on occasions. People generally, and not just sex tourists, have many, many unworthy, mean little thoughts every day - it's what it means to be a human being, guided by self-interest. Many such thoughts evaporate mercifully into the ether almost as soon as they arise, others we consciously suppress because of the practical or legal difficulties of acting on them or because we know they would show us in an unattractive light. Some, on a message board like this, creep out anyway and then it's usually best to do what nordicguy does above and admit graciously to the unworthiness of the thought. Not everyone is capable even of that.

[francois]

Am I the only one who finds this post offensive? "Gee, it's a shame he died before I got a chance to fuck him."

No, you are not the only one. That was a very offensive remark and the post should have been deleted by the mods. If anything, troll-like.

[francois]

I doubt whether there is a contributor to this board who has not had the same thought on occasions.

Are you are saying that every contributor on this forum wished that he could have fucked someone before they died? Answer is NO.

[snotface]

Are you are saying that every contributor on this forum wished that he could have fucked someone before they died? Answer is NO.

I thought it was clear that I was referring to AsDaRa's comment about secretly hoping, as a sex touriist, that Thailand would remain a poor country. Please reread what I wrote (and the quote I attached).

[francois]

I see, snotface.

[Smiles]

" ... Cheers and hugs ... " creep me out as well, though only from certain persons.

[nordicguy]

But what makes the sin in your eyes? The thought or writing the thought down? Or both?

Hannah Arendt once wrote something on the origin of evil which is not a specific feature or "drive" residing in certain human beings (that we do not like and therefore classify as creeps) but it is simply the lack of reflections on your impulses and acts. In this case, I wrote something that was clearly disrespectful, shameless or even worse. It was just a thought or impulse in my head that I wrote down that I should have thought about first and rejected based on the moral concepts that I subscribe to.

I have asked the moderators if they could please delete my post as I deeply regret that i wrote it and because it does not meet the rules of this forum

Rest in peace, Mon...

[Jellybean]

nordicguy

I am unable to contact you by private message (PM), as the system says you have chosen not to receive PMs.

[scottish-guy]

Wow - I didn't realise you could disable PMs from Mods and Admins!!

SG heads to Settings.........................

[Smiles]

" ... Hannah Arendt once wrote something on the origin of evil which is not a specific feature or "drive" residing in certain human beings (that we do not like and therefore classify as creeps) but it is simply the lack of reflections on your impulses and acts. In this case, I wrote something that was clearly disrespectful, shameless or even worse ... "Oh my god, now I'm feeling quite contrite.
Have no fear Nordic, this board has seen many a Behemoth over the years, though very few have inserted H. Arendt into the mix. Just for that alone I will be happy to walk back my reference to ''creepy" and just allude to being "slightly uncomfortable".
And please, for heaven sake, don't start quoting Ayn Rand.

[paborn]

Oh my god, now I'm feeling quite contrite.
Have no fear Nordic, this board has seen many a Behemoth over the years, though very few have inserted H. Arendt into the mix. Just for that alone I will be happy to walk back my reference to ''creepy" and just allude to being "slightly uncomfortable".
And please, for heaven sake, don't start quoting Ayn Rand.

beautifully resolved all around!

[nordicguy]

I am not proud of it, but if in every country in the world the normal escort price for the boys of my type (cute twinky Asians) was say 400 EUR per hour, I would I have a big problem. So we all PROFIT from the situation in Thailand that we can fuck our types, for - for us - cheap prices. So secretly we wish deep down that we hope these cheap prices continue. But this necessarily means we all hope Thailand will for the time being not approach Western European levels of wellfare.

It's a tough one to put on the table... :-)

I've always thought that there was much more substance to the seemingly strong mututal attraction between white men and Asian boys than just the superficial difference in wealth. I think it also has to do with body types/physics and cultural positive stereotypes in our minds. When I travel in Japan and on the west coast in the US where there are many cute Asian boys, I feel that the Asian boys there are also very attracted to white men even though there is no significant difference in income levels. I see the same in more developed SE Asian countries with higher income levels that may local boys just seem to have a thing for white men.

But of course, in the poorer South East Asian countries, it's a completely different game where young sexy Asian boys online immediately begin asking you for a dates (with and without money involve) the minute you leave the plane and set your foot on Asian ground and turn on Hornet, Grindr etc. The attention you get in these platforms as a white western gay man in Thailand in e.g. BKK is quite overwhelming, and it feels nice even though most of the boys are also interested in your money. There is to me also something beautiful and sympathetic and very positive in this cultural exchange of sex, time, experiences and - for me - occasionally also some money/gifts. The Danish journalist, Henrik List, wrote an article for a conservative Danish daily newspaper about the social benefits of western single male tourists in Asia having sex with locals boys/women for money and western sexpats living in Asia. His claim was that no other institutions privide more butter and bread on the table of the less fortunate young Asians than these western men do even though they are subject to condemnatoin . Of course he was criticised heavily afterwards and accused of exploiting poor young Asians.

But back to you question: Don't we want Thailand to become as rich as Western Europe or the US? I'm not sure it will make the Thais happier to become as pampered and rich in material stuff as the western world or Japan for instance. Are the Japanese feeling much better now that they have all the materialistic stuff they could ever desire? even toilets with heated seats.... No, not really. In fact, they find it harder and harder to find the meaning of life the richer they get. Same thing could be said about many western societies that hunt for meaning in consumerism or pseodo religions like sports or special diets. My point is that I actually do hope that Thailand remains Thailand and there is a risk of losing your soul and identity if you just follow the path of the western societies and Japan. Regarding the boys, I have the same position: Western boys are in my view often plain arrogant, lazy, disrespectful and hopeless when we talk about sex. Are they happier than the much poorer SE Asian boys? Not really. I see a thousand times more happy smiles in the faces of Thai boys than in the faces of western boys.

What I hope for Thailand and other relatively poor SE Asian countries is to develop a public system that is capable of providing good and free health care and good education and an descent minimum of social security to it's citizens, but I don't hope they will develop into super wealthy, boring/bored middleclass-dominated countries. And money boys? Yes, there is a of course clear link between national level of wealth of Thailand and the supply/damand of Thai boys/farangs and the prices the farangs have to pay to be with a cute Thai boy for a night. The more wealthy Thailand gets, the less the Thai boys will need us and our financial support. Is this a good development? Most people will say yes, but I'm actually not sure that happiness and life satisfaction has to do with financial wealth. Health care and other basic needs (house, food, transportation) are important factors in a good life, but development never stops there - the human greed wants more and more, but I'm really not sure that the aboundance societies of Japan and the West make people happy. I'm not saying that it's better to be a poor Thai boy in BKK who has sex with horny older western guys for money every weekend compared with a young European guy with middleclass background, education and all kind of materialistic goods and financial security. I'm just saying that both can have good lives regardless of their level of wealth - and that the Thai boy is the carrier of a unique and rich cultural and spritual heritage that I think it worth more than money and middleclass comfort. Many western people lost their sense of belonging somewhere and having a historically rooted cultural identity as they got richer.

It's all summed up in the difference you see in the annoyed, arrogant, playing "hard-to-get" eyes of a western 19 year old boy who has everything but still wants more - compared with the big warm smile and the big thankful brown beautiful eyes of a Thai boy when you are kind to him, take good care of him and give him a small gift. No doubt that the Thai boy probably wants the level of wealth of the European boy and I wish him to have this as well - no doubt! - but he would not be happier.

[scottish-guy]

... the Thai boy probably wants the level of wealth of the European boy and I wish him to have this as well - no doubt! - but he would not be happier.

Your position is well argued (from the comfortable position, Im guessing, of a white comfortably off Westerner) but I think you have to have been in the position of not knowing where your next meal is coming from before making that particular judgement call.

We can kid ourselves all we want - the percentage of Thai boys that we encounter who are involved in commercial sex and are genuinely sexually attracted to older farang can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Over 90% are doing it for the money - due to not having any, and the lack of either wit, opportunity or motivation to feed and house themselves any other way

[nordicguy]

It's not the youthfulness of the "performers" that puts me off (I'm sure they're all of legal age for sexual activity at least - dunno about Thai porn laws) it's the penchant the film-maker apparently has for showing boys in discomfort/pain....

I admit that I'm a porn lover and that I lover gay porn with Thai guys. The photographer behind PrivateBoyMovie (whoever he is) did make some really beautiful and profesoinal looking erotic picture galleries with cute Thai boys aged 18 to mid-20ish. There is no "discomfort" in these picture - just solo pictures with wide smiles all over the faces, erect cocks, sexy butts and beautiful bodies being graciously showed off to the camera. This includes the pictures of dear Mon Kwan (model name) - the poor guy who died as we just talked about.

About the movies, I agree with you that some of them - I believe it's the earlier ones - showing young Thai guys who obviously don't like what they are doing with the camera man. There are many of them that I don't like at all and never watched - some that does not turn me on at all (exactly those scene themes you refer to). In fact, these scenes turns me off, it's repulsive in my view, especially since it's seemingly only the camera guy enjoying doing it. These older movies are flowing around in tube sites, but they have been removed from the pay site (been a while since I checked but I guess it's a dead cash cow site now, not changing anymore). The newer scenes are all just plain vanila sex - conventional gay sex involving oral and anal sex with a top and a bottom, but no SM or dominance theme. In reality, only few people are into kinky stuff. Maybe this European porn guy found out that from a commercial point of view, all the kinky 'unethical' porn scenes scared away potential customers. From an ethical point of view, you can critise all kinds of porn for exposing people who just does it for money without always knowing the consequences. I guess no parents are thrilled about their adult sons doing gay porn, but stlil some young guys choses to do porn - both in Asia and in Europe. Extremely few young guys are exhibitionst to a level where they actually do like having Point of View sex videos of themelves flowing around the internet. This is something you only do for the money - and is it okay to lure young guys into this with a large sum of money? Are they aware of the long-term consequences? Probably not.

I know one porn site featuring young Caucasian guys - Boycrush - where the owner and producer is a public person (he's on Twitter for instance) who has a clear policy on doing porn with younger guys in an more ethical acceptable way in term for salary, working conditions and making it clearly for them what they are about to be doing. But this is in most cases a really a bad industry .... but still I like porn ... I have to admit that.

[nordicguy]

We can kid ourselves all we want - the percentage of Thai boys that we encounter who are involved in commercial sex and are genuinely sexually attracted to older farang can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Over 90% are doing it for the money - due to not having any, and the lack of either wit, opportunity or motivation to feed and house themselves any other way

Yes, you're right that the boys involved in commercial sex are driven purely by money. That'st the nature of commercial activities. A cashier in a supermarket would not be there if tit wasn't for the money, still some cashiers actually prefer that kind of work considering the alternatives. I konw I argue from a priviliged position in Nordic welfare state, and I have absolutely no right to sermonise the poor Thai boys that money and financial security is only a question of external comfort and about inner peace and happiness. My point is rather - back to AdDaRa's question - that western guys who have sex with Thai boys and support them financially is a win-win situation. It's money flowing directly in the pockets that need them the most (both the money paid to the Thai guys and indirectly through the local revenue that tourism creates in the Thai society.

It's up to the Thais how to develop their country economically. We shouldn't interfere or hope for one of the other thing - and we certainly should not feed bad about the current exchange of sex, culture, adventures, experience and money between farangs and Thai guys. I just hope the Thais don't sell their soul and culture in exchange of a high materialistic standard of living in the long run.

[a447]

Nordicguy, you make some interesting points.

However, I think your comments on Japan are incorrect. Namely:


When I travel in Japan....... I feel that the Asian boys there are also very attracted to white men even though there is no significant difference in income levels.

I disagree. I think their attraction is limited solely to those westerners of a similar age or younger. But by and large, Japanese prefer each others' company, not ours. Some interpret this as being racially motivated, but it isn't.


Are the Japanese feeling much better now that they have all the materialistic stuff they could ever desire? even toilets with heated seats.... No, not really.

I strongly disagree. I believe they are much happier than when they were struggling to make ends meet. Why wouldn't they be? To suggest otherwise doesn't make any sense. And BTW, they've had heated toilet seats for decades!


My point is that I actually do hope that Thailand remains Thailand and there is a risk of losing your soul and identity if you just follow the path of the western societies and Japan.

IMHO, Japan has definitely not lost its "soul and identity."


but I'm actually not sure that happiness and life satisfaction has to do with financial wealth.

I'm pretty sure it does. Or at least it helps. Ask a rich person if they'd rather have less money and see what answer you get. A strong attachment to their culture and traditions is also very important - maybe the most important.

[francois]

nordicguy, not to worry, for many years to come the poor will remain poor and the rich will remain rich in Thailand or likely, richer.

[nordicguy]

I disagree. I think their (the Japanes boy's) attraction is limited solely to those westerners of a similar age or younger. But by and large, Japanese prefer each others' company, not ours. Some interpret this as being racially motivated, but it isn't.

It sounds like you know wonderful Japan better than me. I base my view on Japan on personal anecdotes. I've only been to Japan a few times and only Tokyo. It was 4-5 years ago, so I was in my start-30s at that time also. I had some really nice sex with some rather cute but very shy Japanese boys around 20ish. They were quite easy to find and make arrangements with and I just had a feeling (maybe ONLY inside myself) that these Japanese boys I found were very much into white guys. I'm a tall, beefy (nicer word for chubby) and hairy kind of guy. I'm not in anyway anything special or superfit.

One of the boys was working in the hotel and was flirting with me from my arrival. But since I have not lived in the country, I really don't know how Japanese boys are in general.

[sglad]

IMHO, Japan has definitely not lost its "soul and identity."

Good post on Japan, a447. I gave you a like. It would seem from recent posts that some people seem to think that any population/group of people who do not cater or pander to the sexual needs of older white men have lost their "soul and identity". So much cultural claptrap being passed off as analyses.

Culture and identity are fluid concepts that evolve with the times and there's nothing wrong with that. You know it's funny how westerners often use, or should I say over use the "saving face" argument to explain aspects of Thai behaviour that they disapprove of when what I see here is a bunch of westerners who are desperately trying to save their own faces by attributing some cultural excuse or other to explain why certain Asian guys are not interested in them. So much angst and way too much rationalising. Look in the mirror - you don't turn them on. Accept it and move on.

[nordicguy]

It would seem from recent posts that some people seem to think that any population/group of people who do not cater or pander to the sexual needs of older white men have lost their "soul and identity". So much cultural claptrap being passed off as analyses. attributing some cultural excuse or other to explain why certain Asian guys are not interested in them. So much angst and way too much rationalising. Look in the mirror - you don't turn them on. Accept it and move on.

It's a messy thread now - several things are discussed at the same time.

When I look in the mirror, I see a real average-looking, hairy and slightly chubby 36 year old Caucasian bear. As a starting point, I really don't expect sexy slender Asian guys to be particularly interested in me, but my observation - these years - is that the chance for me to succeed in arranging a hot date with a typical smooth and slender Asian boy (regardles if he's living in Europe or US or in Asia) is much higher than with western Caucasian guys at the same age/body figure. White white boys, I have to be really lucky. There is probably an element of 'opposites attract' and exoticness in this game, but I don't know the reason. And in the SE Asian countries, the tendency is increase manifold.

When I wrote about losing 'soul and identiy' it was directly related to the discussion on how poverty and pay sex is linked together and in which direction the SE Asian countries are developing and what you should hope for, if anything - and that economical development sometimes leads to alienation and disintegration of traditional customs and culture - this comment on 'losing soul and identity' was not really about an alleged genuine sexual attraction between young Asian boys and horny older white men.

[AsDaRa]

this comment on 'losing soul and identity' was not really about an alleged genuine sexual attraction between young Asian boys and horny older white men.

Indeed, that is how I read your statement, as you intended it. Strange how others read meaning in sentences that isn't there.
You would say if I write down "I saw a cat", it would be strange if in the reply people are saying I had said I saw a dog.

I have this sometimes on forums. That I think: "these people read a text totally different than I do, how is that possible?".

I understand fully well what Nordicguy is saying and I tend to agree with him. I also think young Asian guys liking older white men is a more likely scenario, than young white guys liking these same older white men. No idea about percentages, I am sure the boys we meet in bars are in it for the money and dont really fancy a 50 year white male, but I would not be suprised if more Asian boys fancy a 50 year old white male, than white boys of the same age do. It will be a low percentage of course. Higher percentages if that older white man is younger.

[sglad]

You would say if I write down "I saw a cat", it would be strange if in the reply people are saying I had said I saw a dog.


Not strange at all. People see things the way they want to see them. A man may see himself as a cat even though everyone else clearly sees a dog. Ergo...


...I would not be suprised if more Asian boys fancy a 50 year old white male, than white boys of the same age do. It will be a low percentage of course. Higher percentages if that older white man is younger.

[scottish-guy]

... I would not be suprised if more Asian boys fancy a 50 year old white male, than white boys of the same age do...

That's the main reason why the average 50yo gay white male is in Thailand in the first place - sourcing what he can't get in his home country.

The other reason of course is that in Thailand "fancying" doesn't even have to come into - as long as the boy fancies your wallet you can ring-a-ding-ding from sunrise to sunset

[sglad]

The other reason of course is that in Thailand "fancying" doesn't even have to come into - as long as the boy fancies your wallet you can ring-a-ding-ding from sunrise to sunset...

...from May all the way to December.

[Kertom]

I think the cultural difference regarding fucking and relationships comes into play.
Love for Thai people in general is different from love for western people.
Keep in mind love is conceptual (as is fancy or attraction).

[scottish-guy]

..Love for Thai people in general is different from love for western people..

If I may say so (and I may) there's huge assumptions at play in your statement - on both sides of the equation

[cdnmatt]

I think the cultural difference regarding fucking and relationships comes into play.
Love for Thai people in general is different from love for western people.
Keep in mind love is conceptual (as is fancy or attraction).


I love this shit. As if Thais have different DNA from us, and they're just a weird alient species we need to figure out, or something.

Nope, as it turns out, they're just homosapiens like the rest of us. Maybe born in a different land with a different set of cultural beliefs, but still just human. And as funny as it turns out, all humans want love.

[Kertom]

But what love is, is different based on culture. Love is a concept, not an observable stimulus.
Just take a look at some modern anthropological research, it's mind opening.

[kittyboy]

But what love is, is different based on culture. Love is a concept, not an observable stimulus.
Just take a look at some modern anthropological research, it's mind opening.

You made a big statement about love or the concept of love or the manifestation of love etc.. is different between Thais and westerners. Big statements are meaningless unless those statements are followed up by specific details and examples. So give some details and examples to explain your idea.

[Kertom]

A culture with a history of poverty within living memory of most of the population will put more emphasis on being taken care off, have someone to treats them nicely in a relationship that is more submissive/dominant oriented.
In western culture love has been known to include much more equality since the sixties and partnership.
There was a cross cultural study on love in 07 that investigated several cultural entities and found considerable differences. If I remember correctly they studied Japan, UK, Mexico, Iceland, Rwanda and some other countries I forgot about.

[poshglasgow]

I have encountered many very cute fems who really balk at the suggestion that they may be lady boys.
"NOOO! I gay, not lady boy. (Pointing at the stage) number two, lady boy."

I have a huge aversion to ladyboys and avoid them at all costs, which is why I will never be found on Beach Road after ten in the evening, despite the best efforts of Singha beer to try and lure me there. Apparently (as many a drunk straight has found to his cost, when trouble breaks out in the shower upon discovering that two pricks occupy it) they are bloody strong and can outrun a whippet with its arse on fire. And, the damage that they can do to a farang skull with one of their slingbacks is highlighted in many a Thai medical student's text book!!

[kittyboy]

A culture with a history of poverty within living memory of most of the population will put more emphasis on being taken care off, have someone to treats them nicely in a relationship that is more submissive/dominant oriented.
In western culture love has been known to include much more equality since the sixties and partnership.
There was a cross cultural study on love in 07 that investigated several cultural entities and found considerable differences. If I remember correctly they studied Japan, UK, Mexico, Iceland, Rwanda and some other countries I forgot about.

Blah blah..More generalities about some study you read. Give detailed examples and explanations about Thais versus westerners.

[Smiles]

Yes indeed. Psychobabble has always been one of my favourite yuk yuk go-to's. The more babble the better.

[cdnmatt]

We're still babbling about this? Does anyone here really believe Thais and Westerners feel love differently?

Here, maybe I can help. Prostitutes don't know what love is, and it has nothing to do with Thais.

[nordicguy]

A culture with a history of poverty within living memory of most of the population will put more emphasis on being taken care off, have someone to treats them nicely in a relationship that is more submissive/dominant oriented.
In western culture love has been known to include much more equality since the sixties and partnership.

Sounds indeed very plausible, but I don't think it's the concept of love that is so different - love and crushes are probably more universal. I think it's more about what forms the basis of a marriage/relationships in difference cultures.

In northwestern Europe and Scandinavia (that I know well), the ideal relationship is considered to be the one between two equals and the two have to be homogenious to some extent - if one part is significantly richer or older or more educated than the other one, it causes weired looks, slander and raised eyebrows when you introduce your new partner to friends and families. People will question the motives, the foundation and the authencity of the relationship. Above all, it has to be strictly love-based. If romantic love is gone, the marrige/relationship is considered dead.

My perception of the Thais is that they are far less concerned about equality and homogeneity in a relationship and that practical matters, financial security, ability to support the in-law parents etc. etc. counts just as much. Feelings of love can grow based on this, but it is not a start-up condition for a good marriage/relationship. Calling it submissive/dominant is taking it a bit too far I think. I would rather put it this way: For a Thai, there is nothing to be ashamed about if you're uneducated and you marry an educated guy, or if you're much younger than him, or if you're from a poor background compared with him, and there is no reason to be ashamed of being obedient and serviceminded in such a relationship. On the contrary, most people will think you have done well, and the older/richer/more educate one won't lose prestige either.

[cdnmatt]

I'm sorry, but this conversation is a bit retarded. Most of you guys are in your 60s, taking on partners in their early 20s. Are you seriously perplexed as to why it seems as though they don't have genuine feelings of love for you?

[nordicguy]

I'm sorry, but this conversation is a bit retarded. Most of you guys are in your 60s, taking on partners in their early 20s. Are you seriously perplexed as to why it seems as though they don't have genuine feelings of love for you?

That's always why I question that this is about whether perception of the concept of love is different in Thailand etc. vs. Western Europe. It think it just a question of what is generally understood by a good and valid foundation of a relationship or marriage. The modern western post-60s ideals of a relationship is that it should be purely love-based and partners should be equal which presupposes homogeneity to some extent. If you're an older, rich, well-educated man and you marry a quite young ineducated guy without any education, it's hard to claim that you're equal as the one part is far more experiences and is also funding everything. Many westerners will disapprove this setup more or less explicityly. But exactly this constallation I've described here as an example works very indeed well in a Thai setting and is seen as fine arrangement (win-win).

[Tintin]

But exactly this constallation I've described here as an example works very indeed well in a Thai setting and is seen as fine arrangement (win-win).

Maybe the selection of members of the Thai society you get to know is a bit limited. Ask some wealthy, well educated Thais and you will be surprised by their answer.

[nordicguy]

Maybe the selection of members of the Thai society you get to know is a bit limited. Ask some wealthy, well educated Thais and you will be surprised by their answer.

I don't think I will be surprised :)

But the majority of the Thais are not wealthy. The majority of the Thais are not even middle class. The majority of the Thais are relatively poor and THEIR views are therefore far more relevant to consider than the views of the small BKK area Thai middle class and upper class.

In northwestern Europe, the majority of the population belongs to the middleclass and it was therefore the European middle class view on relationships/marriage that I tried to describe (love marriage, partners of roughly the same age/maturity, same educational level, both are financially indepent etc.) If you then compare this view of marriage with the view among the general (poor) Thai population, you will see much more flexible views on marriage/relationships where financial security ("being taken good care") is considered far more important than being at same age, having the same educational level and being based purely on romantic love and common interests .. the things you tend only to care more about as a privileged westerner living in a welfare state.

[kkjason]

I don't think I will be surprised :)

But the majority of the Thais are not wealthy. The majority of the Thais are not even middle class. The majority of the Thais are relatively poor and THEIR views are therefore far more relevant to consider than the views of the small BKK area Thai middle class and upper class.
.

What is your definition of poor? Most Thai's are not anywhere near what I would consider poor. Just look at neighboring Cambodia as an example. Most Thai's have their basic needs met while UNICEF estimates that more than half of all Cambodians lack even one basic meal a day. Go further to Africa. How can you possibly say a Thai is poor when looking at country like Sudan or Liberia? Take car ownership. Many Thai's have a car. Most now have air conditioning. The list can go on and on. In fact, with the cost of living continuing to rise in Europe and America, I would say that the percentage of Thai's considered to be middle class or above may very well be higher than in those 'Western' countries. Also, do not forget that many Thai's place a different importance on their wealth than in other countries. Even wealthy Thai's, for example, will forgo a clean and luxurious house, preferring instead to spend their money on luxury items that are more immediately attainable, such as cars and electronic gadgets. Many Thai's that look like they are 'dirt poor' actually have millions of baht in the bank, but would never know it because they do not flaunt their wealth the way we are taught to in America and Europe.

So, again, I guess it would depend on your definition of poor, but from my experience classifying 'most Thai's' as poor is nowhere near an accurate statement.

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, just because wages are lower, doesn't really mean people are poor. In general, I'd say purchasing power is close to the same in Thailand at least.

For example, I've been looking for an actual job lately, and may have found one that pays $120k CAD/yeah, so say 300,000 THB/month. Leo's ecstatic and says we'll be rich, and I have to explain to him it's in Toronto, hence a lower standard of living than in Khon Kaen. Definitely not renting a nice 3bdrm house with large gated yard or having dogs, that's for sure. I have to explain to him, in Canada, that's nowhere close to being rich, and is decent and not really poor, but FAR from rich.

Making say 300,000 THB/month in Canada is about the equivalent of making around 50,000 THB/month in Thailand, and lods of Thais make that much and more.

[nordicguy]

@cdnmatt @kkjason

I guess you're right that it's wrong to state that most are "poor" - what I meant what that relatively few Thais belong to a middle class in they way that you see in Northwestern Europe. But the perception of wealth and poverty is relative and subjective of course!

I cannot offer you a perfect theoretical definition of being rich or poor or somewhere in between, but it has to due with how even the income distribution is and the the average wage levels in a province or country adjusted for purchase power.

Thailand is characterised by a high level of economical inequality. Gini coefficient is reportedly at US level, which is high level of income inequality, but in reality it is even worse as there is limited insight in the income of the riches families in countries like Thailand. I've read a report suggeesting a gini coefficient of >0.5. There are many poor people living ín the US. It's a big and growing issue. In Scandinavia, where I live, the gini coefficient is generally around ~0.25. There are also poor families, but fewer than in many other countries. There are also less rich people. If your ambition is to get rich, you should move elsewhere. The marginal tax is very high, but this keeps the income span more narrow.

The other statistical measure relevant to look at would be the average family income adjusted for purchase power. I've looked a little around and I cannot find any data sources suggesting (anywhere near) parity between Canada and Thailand.

One of you also mention that the relative price level difference in rent, services and consumer goods (which must include all the imported goods like electronical items, pharmaceuticals, medical services, cars, household equipment, clothes, entertainment etc. to make sense) is 1/6 in Thailand versus Canada . I've not found any price indeces anywhere near this: It's more like 1/2 (some categories below, some above) if you look at the whole package or items. It's not enough to look at the cost of going out for dinner or the price of food in the local super market.

[francois]

@cdnmatt @kkjason

I guess you're right that it's wrong to state that most are "poor" -



No, you were right most Thais are poor in comparison to First World countries.
But in comparison to Third World countries then they are not poor.

[kkjason]

No, you were right most Thais are poor in comparison to First World countries.
But in comparison to Third World countries then they are not poor.

I just don't see this being anywhere near accurate. Yes, individuals in many countries around the world earn much more money than the average Thai, but how does that fact alone make them better off? In Thailand - everyone I know (and most Thai's will agree with this) have a job if they want one. The figure of less than one percent unemployment is not an exaggeration. Just look around in the big cities and see the number of migrant workers that keep things going. They depend on them, because there are not enough workers to go around. My niece finished university and got a job at TOT in Bangkok within two weeks (and she is not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I love her to bits). Now, let's fast forward to Europe. Spain, Portugal, Greece, and many other countries hold little hope for young people. Unemployment for 18-29 years old in Greece in over 30 percent. Soup kitchens are filled daily with people struggling to survive. I've never even seen a soup kitchen in Thailand (I'm sure they exist, so no need to correct me). In fact, even in the 'poorest' villages I have been in Thailand have people eating plenty of food. They might not make much money, but they have food. So, what again is your definition of poor? I see life as being much more difficult for the average person in many parts of Europe (just as an example) than they are in for the same type of person in Thailand.

[cdnmatt]

No, soup kitchens don't really exist in Thailand. They're called temples there. Anyone and everyone is allowed to live at the temple for free, and eat for free if they ever need it.

[Uranus]

Continuing the off topic: Thailand is rated as an upper middle income country by the World Bank. And yes, there are most likely poor people in Thailand - but so there are in the USA and many other Western countries, countries that classified as high income countries. Thailand is definitely not a third world country, an expression not in use any longer.