Boyztown Pattaya Oscars Bar no more.

[catawampuscat]

Oscars bar beer, a popular boy bar facing Boyzboyzboyz bites the dust.
Last night was final night. Large sign advising for rent or sale. Unfortunately another dark spot.
Rent increase was final blow.

[gerefan2]

I see you also posted this on gaybutton so I say the same here in reply....

“It does surprise me that many places,at that far end of the Soi which were so badly affected by the roadworks, are still open. Some had virtually no customers for weeks on end, and in high season too. Perhaps these are on the brink?”

Although Oscars, as we know it, may be closed I’m sure someone will take over the premises. It has swapped hands many, many times over the years.

[Blacktouch]

I see you also posted this on gaybutton so I say the same here in reply....

“It does surprise me that many places,at that far end of the Soi which were so badly affected by the roadworks, are still open. Some had virtually no customers for weeks on end, and in high season too. Perhaps these are on the brink?”

Although Oscars, as we know it, may be closed I’m sure someone will take over the premises. It has swapped hands many, many times over the years.

Businesses closing because of greedy venue owners putting up the rent or leases?

[a447]

Businesses closing because of greedy venue owners putting up the rent or leases?

That has to be a first! LOL

But given its prime location they shouldn't have much trouble renting it out again.

Unless, of course, the soi is up for redevelopment and Boyztown bites the dust.

[Oliver2]

That corner- Oscar's, Serene, Panorama- has always been my favourite part of Pattaya. Even in the grimmest of low seasons, it has maintained a degree of "buzz" and many are the times I've enjoyed a late-night drink there watching the the life of the soi. Oscar's has usually had innovative owners; I remember David's refurbishment and later, the attempt to keep it open in the afternoons . These owners tried hard and, in my view, were rewarded by some loyal customers.
Evidently not enough, and now we have two Boyztown institutions closed, one at each end. I hope a447 is right and the bar re-opens quickly.

[bkkguy]

But given its prime location they shouldn't have much trouble renting it out again.

so we all know the final swan song always takes forever to play out but you can hear the fat lady warming up in the wings, so who - apart from the delusional building owner - would still consider this a prime location? I only ask because I have this bridge I am sure they would be interested in buying

bkkguy

[gerefan2]

and now we have two Boyztown institutions closed, one at each end. I hope a447 is right and the bar re-opens quickly.

They may be two institutions but to compare them is like comparing chalk and cheese. One is just a small bar, the other is a bar, restaurant, and hotel with dozens of rooms.

My guess is it will be far easier to re-let Oscars and as A447 says, this could happen relatively quickly. Cafe Royale is another matter entirely...

[gerefan2]

so who - apart from the delusional building owner - would still consider this a prime location?

bkkguy

Me ...so that’s a few of us on here! I have no idea what the rest of your post means.

[a447]

...so who - apart from the delusional building owner - would still consider this a prime location?

bkkguy

Oh, come on, bkkguy - these days any business catering to the pink dollar in Thailand which is surrounded by other businesses with their lights on must surely be considered a prime location!

And don't forget, it's situated right across the soi from Boyzboyzboyz, one of the two most popular boy bars in Thailand.

[bkkguy]

Oh, come on, bkkguy - these days any business catering to the pink dollar in Thailand which is surrounded by other businesses with their lights on must surely be considered a prime location!

so the owners of Oscars who do not consider it a license to print money in the current environment are just incompetent businessmen? along with all the the other venues in the area that have closed, changed hands or changed format (not necessarily successfully), or are just failing to attract the clientele they used to attract? or am I the only one that has noticed this on every visit to Boyztown in the last few years?

we all know how to make a small fortune running a bar in Pattaya (start with a large fortune) so I am sure someone will follow your advice and snap up this gem - perhaps they could call it the Ostrich and install a sand pit in the back office

bkkguy

[a447]

bkkguy, I've no idea why they have decided to sell up shop. I can only think of reasons that would cause me to make a similar decision; viz

A) I'd had enough and decided it's time to move on to something else

B) profits were not considered sufficient

C) I was not willing to see a rent increase further eat into my profits

So far, we've only heard about a rent increase which they are unwilling to accept. There is no indication that they have been incompetent businessmen.

Businesses change hands all the time, for a variety of reasons that we are not privy to.

I'm presuming the member who posted about the rent increase got the information first hand.

At the end of the day, your guess is as good as mine.

[francois]

I'm presuming the member who posted about the rent increase got the information first hand.


I believe that member posted the following:

Businesses closing because of greedy venue owners putting up the rent or leases?


So it wasn't a statement of fact, rather a question.

[newalaan2]

I believe that member posted the following: Businesses closing because of greedy venue owners putting up the rent or leases?
So it wasn't a statement of fact, rather a question.


Rent increase was final blow.
Francois I think the rent increase reference was the one from 'catawampuscat' above. While I understand this definitely contributed towards the decision to close, business closures are usually the result of a combination of issues coming together. The rent issue was one of those, I have still to hear from the 'horses mouth' on the full situation, if I do I will post update.


so who - apart from the delusional building owner - would still consider this a prime location?
You do have a point, certainly in regards to it's value/worth, but in terms of the 3 Pattayaland Soi's and pattaya gay/boy bars the location would probably still be regarded as prime for the time being.

[StevieWonders]

I believe that member posted the following:

Businesses closing because of greedy venue owners putting up the rent or leases?
.

Surely the "greedy" venue owners could put up the rent only if they owned the building themselves? The building owner might sting them for a rent increase but that's something over which they have no control; it will have been set out in the lease they signed. They would then factor in the increase in the prices they charge.

[francois]

Francois I think the rent increase reference was the one from 'catawampuscat' above.
.

Yes, I see that now.

[Nathan B]

That's annoying, I will miss Oscar's. It was my usual place for plying my off with a few drinks in the hope of relaxing his inhibitions.

[catawampuscat]

Some of the host boys have relocated in Jomtien Complex and one Non is now at Panorama, a few steps away.

[AsDaRa]

Does anyone know what the average monthly rent is for the average beer bar/go go bar?

[lukylok]

I was quoted 70.000 a month for the new lease. No garantee !!!!!

[AsDaRa]

I was quoted 70.000 a month for the new lease. No garantee !!!!!

OK. I was wondering about that because I often think walking through Sunee how they can possibily survive. But if you get on average 30 clients a day spending 300 baht each you already have 9000 baht earnings in one single day. if you get only 15 clients a day (maybe some Sunee bars qualify for that low number) you still will have 4500 baht each single day.

Since 70.000 baht a month you need to pay for rent, it looks that it can be done indeed.

[Blacktouch]

OK. I was wondering about that because I often think walking through Sunee how they can possibily survive. But if you get on average 30 clients a day spending 300 baht each you already have 9000 baht earnings in one single day. if you get only 15 clients a day (maybe some Sunee bars qualify for that low number) you still will have 4500 baht each single day.

Since 70.000 baht a month you need to pay for rent, it looks that it can be done indeed.

Dont forget overhead bills like, electricity, staff wages, insurance, taxes, water, business rates (if they have in Thailand), and stock etc.

And they still need to make profit on top of all that.

[AsDaRa]

Dont forget overhead bills like, electricity, staff wages, insurance, taxes, water, business rates (if they have in Thailand), and stock etc.

And they still need to make profit on top of all that.

Good point. How do you explain that many not well visited bars survive? Can it be the mob, that the bars are used to white wash criminally earned money? They just inflate the number of visitors to make their illegal money, legal. Which is easy to do because everyone pays cash so you can pretend criminally earned bahts are just bar income from customers, thereby legalizing these bahts.

[Blacktouch]

Good point. How do you explain that many not well visited bars survive? Can it be the mob, that the bars are used to white wash criminally earned money? They just inflate the number of visitors to make their illegal money, legal. Which is easy to do because everyone pays cash so you can pretend criminally earned bahts are just bar income from customers, thereby legalizing these bahts.

This could well be the case? I think the words you're looking for is called "money laundering".

How else are those business surviving?

This reminds me of the rent bar and club in Prague (Monty Bar and Club Temple), still open, but hardly any customers. How do they remain open all these last few years with all those overheads?

[bkkguy]

Dont forget overhead bills like, electricity, staff wages, insurance, taxes, water, business rates (if they have in Thailand), and stock etc.

and most importantly a large enough table for the making of "special" payments under


Can it be the mob, that the bars are used to white wash criminally earned money?

if you believe the scandalous rumours about Soi Twilight in Bangkok it is a "wash, rinse, repeat" cycle - the bars run by the army pay bribes to the local police who launder it through the bars that they run which pay bribes to the army ...

I don't believe any of it of course!

bkkguy

[pennyboy]

I would be very surprised if the average beer bar in Sunee is paying 70000bt per month rent.

[Blacktouch]

I would be very surprised if the average beer bar in Sunee is paying 70000bt per month rent.

If it is true, no wonder why some of these poor bars are closing down?

[scottish-guy]

I was quoted 70.000 a month for the new lease. No garantee !!!!!

No guarantee of what? Success?

And who owns the property - clearly you've spoken with him/her/them, to be quoted a rental figure?

Genuine question.

[arsenal]

Having sat many times at the highest of high season in bars near Oscars I can guarantee that at 70000 baht rent the only promise is a loss. Even half that would be a struggle.

[AsDaRa]

A loss with even 35.000 (half of 70.000) in the high season? But in high season you easily get in Boyztown like 50 customers a day. Say 200 baht each. Is 10.000 baht a day. Is 300.000 baht a month. Shouldn’t that be profitable with only a rent of 35.000 baht?

Unless indeed you have a 6 man staff which you need to pay like 12.000 baht every month. That is another 72.000. But then still you are left with almost 200.000 baht. Add electricity bill and stuff and it looks to be profitable.

[Moses]

A loss with even 35.000 (half of 70.000) in the high season? But in high season you easily get in Boyztown like 50 customers a day. Say 200 baht each. Is 10.000 baht a day. Is 300.000 baht a month. Shouldn’t that be profitable with only a rent of 35.000 baht?

Unless indeed you have a 6 man staff which you need to pay like 12.000 baht every month. That is another 72.000. But then still you are left with almost 200.000 baht. Add electricity bill and stuff and it looks to be profitable.

You forgot investments to interior and renovation, daily investments to drinks and food. And main is - high season is only 4 months from 12.

[Blacktouch]

You forgot investments to interior and renovation, daily investments to drinks and food. And main is - high season is only 4 months from 12.

And all the other overheads involved in running a bar.

[arsenal]

The "50 customers a day" AsDaRa mentions is also on ambitious side. Many times there aren't 50 customers in the whole of Boyztown.

[AsDaRa]

The "50 customers a day" AsDaRa mentions is also on ambitious side. Many times there aren't 50 customers in the whole of Boyztown.

Then how do they survive if the rent is indeed a couple of 10.000 baht a month? How do all these bars survive? Considering indeed the 8 months low season also. I gave an idea above but that was just a wild guess.

[a447]

How do all these bars survive?

That is the on-going mystery.

But they would surely have to be making a profit, or at least breaking even. If the latter is the case, then maybe the owner is just running it as a hobby.

I recall Neal, (yes, that Neal), telling me during one of his ever-decreasing lucid moments that there was no money to be made running a gogo bar in Pattaya, but at least he wasn't losing money. So for him, it was a hobby just to give him something to do.

Years ago I inherited a business in Japan. Even though I was totally hands-off, at least I knew it was not losing money. If it was, I would have been out of there in an instant. And I certainly woukd not have run it as a hobby. There were many other activities available to keep me interested.

But if people want to do that, good luck to them. At least it keeps the lights on in the soi.

[Oliver2]

That reminds me....Neal also said to me that he needed only ten customers day to ensure that Happy Place didn't lose money. I was puzzled then and still am but I suppose it goes to show that other customers are a lot more generous than me when in bars!

[scottish-guy]

Well the usual way people end up broke (as Neal did) is in fact to "lose money" - so either he didn't have 10 customers a night or he was just talking out of his posterior as always.

Take your pick.

[arsenal]

AsDaRa. Since time immemorial the majority of farang bar owners in Pattaya were there for every reason you can think of apart from to make actual money.

[snotface]

I recall sitting behind a couple of farangs on Dongtan beach one day. They were talking about whether or not bar ownership in Pattaya was a good idea. One thought it might work out but the other, nodding in front of him, said, 'I’d rather throw me money in the sea - at least there's a chance the tide would wash some of it back.'

[arsenal]

The way it worked was that Johnny Foreigner would give up his life in farangland, move to Pattaya, run the place for a couple of years for an extended working holiday before handing over to the next mid-life crisis bloke and heading home. That all went pear shaped when the money men fucked the world in 08 and since then everyone has been shit scared about everything and the idea of a two year sabbatical in Brothel by the Sea was less appealing. In other words, the western bankers fucked the western wankers.