Le Cafe Royal and the prospects for Boyztown

[Oliver]

Is there any news as to what is to become of the Le Cafe Royal premises? the soi was livelier than I expected (Casro seemed to be doing particularly well) but the darkened Cafe Royal was not helpful. Boyztown needs a new business on the site.

[karius]

When I was there three weeks ago, the receptionist in Ambiance told me that the whole Boystown soi would be renovated after they finished renovating the soi next to Boystown where the Irish pub is. Have they started doing it yet? And if so, is it still possible to visit the bars there? When I was there in December/early January, it was very difficult walking in the area, and no taxi could actually enter Boystown.

[gerefan2]

They are still working on the Soi next to Boyztown. No work in Boyztown as yet. It is not possible to get a Taxi into the Boyztown Soi as it is one way and access is via the Soi currently dug up.

If they really are going to do the Boyztown Soi that will have an enormous effect on any business there while they are doing it. The disruption to access in the other Sois has to be seen to be believed.

I say if they are really are going to do Boyztown because this is the first anyone has mentioned it here, or any of the other gay Pattaya forums as far as I know. Also the road surfaces in the other two Sois had got to the stage of collapse, whereas Boyztown Soi is actually in good order. Whether that has anyhting to do with installing new drainage I have no idea.

So in summary,all normal at the moment, except no taxi access during the day. At night it is walking only anyway.

[scottish-guy]

.. no taxi could actually enter Boystown.

Not exactly a hardship though?

Unless one is a paraplegic, why would a taxi be necessary to reach any venue in BT - from Beach Rd at one end or the main road at the other it's literally a 3 minute sashay from beginning to end

[Brad the Impala]

If arriving laden down with your suitcases for a stay in one of the hotels, it might be irksome to be dropped off at the main road.

I'd like to see someone try to sashay with my baggage!

[scottish-guy]

Is "baggage" a euphemism for your arse?

:D

[Josan]

Give your driver the phone number of the hotel and have him call and they will send a guy out to the main street to collect you and your bags!

[arsenal]

Brad wrote.
" If arriving laden down with your suitcases for a stay in one of the hotels, it might be irksome to be dropped off at the main road."

If a car can't get down the road due to the building work then it's going to be noisy and so someone who is naturally disposed to irritability should probably choose another hotel.

[Oliver]

I'm genuinely interested in what's going to happen to the darkened premises at the entrance to BT. It's an eye-sore and discourages visitors. Does anyone know? The same thing happened in Sunee when Krazy Dragon and Krazy Pub closed, leaving half of the soi in darkness;....it has never recovered.

[Brad the Impala]

If a car can't get down the road due to the building work then it's going to be noisy and so someone who is naturally disposed to irritability should probably choose another hotel.

Good point. For myself I've never stayed in Boyztown and I'm unlikely to start in this circumstance.

When I used to visit Pattaya regularly twenty plus years ago I always stayed at the Nautical Inn(no sailors sadly). Small hotel, simple clean rooms and a pool, and despite the location it is very quiet. I see it still exists.

[Oliver]

Wasn't there also a Nautilus gay bar? Was there a connection? and didn't it have a pool of some sort (perhaps like that in Splash) into which the dancers jumped au natural? Or is this a figment of my imagination?
I hear that the resurfacing will take a month....the work is being done remarkably quickly.

[Brad the Impala]

There was a Nautilus gay bar. It's design was themed on being in a submarine, and indeed was as far as I know the first to have a tank in which naked guys swam and performed. It extended the length of one wall, I'd say about three shop house widths, with three circular windows. The lighting in the bar was kept low, maintaining the subterranean atmosphere, while the tank was better lit for the mermen swimming past.

The bar had no relation to the Nautical Inn, apart from the name. It was conveniently located just round the corner from the excellent and relocated Dolf Riks' restaurant, whose was bar was the meeting place for the gay expat business owners of the time.

Thinking maybe we are in about 1980/82 at this point

[FarangRuMak]

The soi lek where Vassa bar stands closed is now the best surfaced whereas before it was the worst.
The new hotel going up there is probably behind the street renovation but that's only speculation on my part.

[Nathan B]

Last night the Ambiance receptionist told me the Cafe Royale was closed for refurbishment.

There are now lorry loads of sand and aggregate in the corner of the Boyztown soi. The bars are operating normally, except for the lack of space for outside tables.

[gerefan2]

Last night the Ambiance receptionist told me the Cafe Royale was closed for refurbishment..

That awful news. I hope they find a buyer.
Gerefan2
Ps....refurbishment in Thai means ....closed permanently!

[scottish-guy]

I know it's Thailand but I can't think of many instances where a business which we assume has had to close the doors (as there was no advance notice of any closure) is able or likely to "refurbish" the premises for the next occupants!

So I'll go with Gerefan 2's suggestion that "refurbishment" is a euphemism for "closed permanently" and seeking new occupants - and good luck with that one as I don't believe BT is a big enough draw these days to sustain two gay* hotels in a single tiny street- there just isn't the market anymore except for 4 weeks of the year - and LCR would need a massive investment in its rooms which I found very dated even 15yrs ago!

*I'm aware both have tried (by necessity?) to appeal to a wider customer base

[a447]

Happy Boys in Pattaya is a perfect example of gerefan2's "refurbishment."

[gerefan2]

Last night the Ambiance receptionist told me the Cafe Royale was closed for refurbishment.

There are now lorry loads of sand and aggregate in the corner of the Boyztown soi. The bars are operating normally, except for the lack of space for outside tables.

Just to give members an idea of the extent of the works I went and took theses pics this afternoon, Saturday 3 Feb....

They were taken from the beginning of the connecting Soi where Cupidol is. Cupidol and Panorama on the right and BBB on the left.

The main Soi is still mainly clear....

[arsenal]

Big like to the effort to post the photos but a huge fuck off dislike to the actual content.

[goji]

Well they put new drains in the soi with Kawaii boys on it, finishing in late December.

The pipes were there ready to do the next soi & perhaps the boystown soi is the last in the sequence.

As for the hotel, I should think anyone able bodied & with sensible baggage should be able to make it to the hotel irrespective of the works. Of course, those criteria may not apply to all members.

The bigger question is why would anyone want to stay there ? With the risk of loud late night parties followed by construction work starting at 7:00 am, or whatever it is.

[poshglasgow]

Just to give members an idea of the extent of the works I went and took theses pics this afternoon, Saturday 3 Feb....

They were taken from the beginning of the connecting Soi where Cupidol is. Cupidol and Panorama on the right and BBB on the left.

The main Soi is still mainly clear....

Do you know what I think they're up to? They're about to begin work on the Pattaya Metro! Look at the size of these tunnels. The tube (we call it the subway) tunnels in Glasgow are not much more in circumference than those sections of tunnel in the photo.

"Next stop, Cupidol. Mind the crap between the platform and the train! I wonder what they'll call the stations. Perhaps the names of some of London's tube stations will inspire them, not necessarily to adopt the same names per se, but rather to play around with them.....
Cockfosters? (What an invitation)!
Shepherd's 'Bush' (eh, no thanks).
Ladbroke(aren't they all?) Grove.
Parson's Green (with envy, having seen the bishop's organ)
Bond(age) Street
Upmin(is)ster

Any more?


Thanks for taking the photo today, Gerefan 2.

[scottish-guy]

Too easy - there's actually a London tube station called ....Mudchute !!!

[gerefan2]

Well hopefully the new underground line will connect all the Pattaya gay areas, starting in Boyztown,which they will obviously name OLD STREET.

Next stop will be in Sunnee Plaza which they will call The ELEPHANT AND CASTLE, after a well known Hotel there.

They were going to call the Sunnee Plaza Station GRANGE HILL but fortunately had a change of mind. The Local Authority also refused to call it PICADILLY CIRCUS which I thought would have been ideal.

Those wanting to alight at Eros can use HAMPSTEAD although SWISS COTTAGE is just as close.

Fuck knows why the station in Jomtien is called ARSENAL...

[frequent]

They're about to begin work on the Pattaya Metro! Look at the size of these tunnels. The tube (we call it the subway) tunnels in Glasgow are not much more in circumference than those sections of tunnel in the photo.Giving a wholly new mean to the phrase "going down in Pattaya"

[a447]

Or "laying pipe" in Pattaya.

[poshglasgow]

Well hopefully the new underground line will connect all the Pattaya gay areas, starting in Boyztown,which they will obviously name OLD STREET.

Next stop will be in Sunnee Plaza which they will call The ELEPHANT AND CASTLE, after a well known Hotel there.

They were going to call the Sunnee Plaza Station GRANGE HILL but fortunately had a change of mind. The Local Authority also refused to call it PICADILLY CIRCUS which I thought would have been ideal.

Those wanting to alight at Eros can use HAMPSTEAD although SWISS COTTAGE is just as close.

Fuck knows why the station in Jomtien is called ARSENAL...

Excellent! Loved the suggestion that the station at Sunee be called Grange Hill or Piccadilly Circus.

I am assuming that fellow member Arsenal lives in Jomtien?

The planners loved SG's suggestion of: Mudchute. It too has been adopted for inclusion in the list of stations. Any more?

My God, I remember the tail end (no pun intended) of the Piccadilly scene when I was a student in London in the early seventies. The meat rack? Eros?
At about that time, my brother (sadly now deceased) was a young police constable serving the Piccadilly Circus area, and I remember he spoke of a notorious amusement arcade near Eros which various household names at the time viewed as their gay takeaway!! Fortunately for them there was an exit at the back through which the customers and merchandise would propel themselves in the event of a visit from the BIB.

Incidentally, the new Pattaya Metro is scheduled for completion in the year 2118. We're all invited to participate in the inaugural spin around its circle line!

[arsenal]

Peccadillo Circus perhaps.

[a447]

What about Action Town, Wood Lane, Cockfoster, Banger Lane, Spew Gardens, Slime House or Shagwell?

The list is endless.

[joe552]

I think it's disgraceful that this thread now bears no relation to the original post. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. (I'm just standing in for francois who is otherwise engaged).

[a447]

On the contrary, I think francois would be absolutely thrilled, as we are actually discussing the "prospects for Boyztown" part of the thread.

So we are right on topic.

Whatsmore, apparently we have 100 years to come up with names.

Over to you, Joe!

[joe552]

i didn't find it that interesting to begin with, given that I won't be back in Pattaya for a number of years. In fact, you'll probably see a lot less of me now (hoorahs all round)

[francois]

I think it's disgraceful that this thread now bears no relation to the original post. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. (I'm just standing in for francois who is otherwise engaged).

As I go through Boyztown on a regular basis I haven't been following this post except until recently and it is not really "off track". But thank you for your support, joe552.

[scottish-guy]

Poshglasgow - the amusement arcade was called Playland- and apparently the name was extemely apposite as the line of teenage boys at the urinals resembled a row of One Armed Bandits.

I'm too young myself to have experienced London
In its notorious heyday but it all started to close down after the screening of the ITV documentary "Johnny Go Home" which exposed not just the extremely dodgy shenanigans going on - but the unbelievably brazen nature of them.

[frequentfliers]

I have stayed in Boyztown many times over a 20 year period and seen many changes there.most for the better.Hopefully La Cafe will return better than before.Boyztown is still our number one spot.Long may it last.

[sglad]

What about Action Town, Wood Lane, Cockfoster, Banger Lane, Spew Gardens, Slime House or Shagwell?

The list is endless.

Inspired by a747, I came up with:

Geronto Junction

Prune Valley

St Peter's Gateway

Six Feet Underground

Inspired by the locale, I got:

Romper Room (Sunee Plaza)

Hoes 'R' Us (Boyztown)

Khmer Root (Jomtien Complex - a747 will appreciate the Australianism)

[scottish-guy]

I have stayed in Boyztown many times over a 20 year period and seen many changes there.most for the better...

Really? All I have seen over the last 20 years is a slow steady decline - I'm not questioning your opinion (you're completely entitled to it) but can you cite some of the improvements you have seen?

As for it still being "our number one spot", I agree because it provides the type I am attracted to (twinks), and all readily available - but as a general "gay centre" (rather than just a hotbed of prostitution) I believe BT would now struggle to make the top 3 in the world.

[gerefan2]

I believe BT would now struggle to make the top 3 in the world.

That’s Good enough for me, ....

[scottish-guy]

...and me - I'm just making the point

[poshglasgow]

Inspired by a747, I came up with:

Geronto Junction

Prune Valley

St Peter's Gateway

Six Feet Underground

Inspired by the locale, I got:

Romper Room (Sunee Plaza)

Hoes 'R' Us (Boyztown)

Khmer Root (Jomtien Complex - a747 will appreciate the Australianism)

It's going to be one hell of a Metro! Don't forget to put the date in your diary: 2118. Each station will bear a large mural portrait of Cupidol's mamasan on the wall facing each platform to ensure that children stand well back from the edge!!

[a447]

And at any station close to a girlie bar, you'll hear "Mind the gap!"

[sglad]

It's going to be one hell of a Metro! Don't forget to put the date in your diary: 2118.

You'll be happy to know that the "boys" working in BBB now will still be working then! :D

[poshglasgow]

And at any station close to a girlie bar, you'll hear "Mind the gap!"

And visually impaired lesbians may alight close to the said girlie bar and wonder whether they have arrived at a genuine girlie bar or a fish market. Mind the gap indeed, A447!

[scottish-guy]

As a young sexually attractive woman called Mandy trapped in the slowly disintegrating body of a middle aged man, I find the above comments from a447 and PoshGlasgow highly mysogynistic

...And I am unanimous in that

[poshglasgow]

As a young sexually attractive woman called Mandy trapped in the slowly disintegrating body of a middle aged man, I find the above comments from a447 and PoshGlasgow highly mysogynistic

...And I am unanimous in that

The toastmaster duly announces the arrival of a couple and their daughter at the annual hunt ball: "Mr. & Mrs. Lifeboats, and their daughter, Mandy Lifeboats!"

[scottish-guy]

Trivia Fact #86453:

Dick Emery's buxom blonde "Ooh You Are Awful....But I Like You!" character was named Mandy Dunnett

[dab69]

Looking at their website I see the Copa Hotel still appears active.
Wishing I had thought of this last February when I usually vacation.
Staying there would be as close to being home when Cafe Royale is closed
and supporting a Boystown business at the same time.

[paborn]

Really? All I have seen over the last 20 years is a slow steady decline - I'm not questioning your opinion (you're completely entitled to it) but can you cite some of the improvements you have seen?

As for it still being "our number one spot", I agree because it provides the type I am attracted to (twinks), and all readily available - but as a general "gay centre" (rather than just a hotbed of prostitution) I believe BT would now struggle to make the top 3 in the world.
What are one and two?

[DrewSpz]

Yes do tell

[scottish-guy]

The gay areas in Barcelona? Berlin? Gran Canaria? All have much a much livelier and more diverse scene

As I say, take away the prostitution from BT (which I admit is the major attraction) and there's actually very little left nowadays. Where can you even sit down and eat now apart from the Ambience?

[paborn]

The gay areas in Barcelona? Berlin? Gran Canaria? All have much a much livelier and more diverse scene

As I say, take away the prostitution from BT (which I admit is the major attraction) and there's actually very little left nowadays. Where can you even sit down and eat now apart from the Ambience?
Yes, makes sense. But, at my age the off system keeps Pattaya way at the top. Long time, if ever, that I could score in Barcelon, Ibiza and the like.

[arsenal]

Taken as one the gay parts of Pattaya comprises show bars, go go bars, host bars, cafes, restaurants, nightclubs, hotels, guesthouses, pubs, karaoke joints and a sauna. That seems pretty dverse to me, with the added bonus of incredible availability of boys.

[Oliver2]

The comfort and ease of meeting-up with cute guys in a hotel which not only welcomes them but depends on the custom of those that wish to do so, cannot be replicated anywhere else that I've been.

[Nirish guy]

The gay areas in Barcelona? Berlin? Gran Canaria?

And Sitges of course, let’s not forget ever gay Sitges, especially in the summer and uber especially at their various party wwwkends, bear weeks, pride events etc as the place is over flowing with gay guys and numerous gay bars and restaurants about and as SG, after taking away the “boy” end of things probably at least equally if not more so that Patts and yes same for Barcelona too etc.

[arsenal]

It's exactly the boy thing that keeps most of the members here going back year after year and obsessing about the place on this very forum. Pattaya,and it's propensity to take sex and place it unashamedly in the retail trade is unmatched in my experience. With three gay areas to choose from and each with a different style of venue set.

[scottish-guy]

NIrish, I have never been to Sitges, but it's good to see that someone else can tell the difference between a "gay resort" and what has become a pretty monotonous whorehouse spread over several venues.

That's not to say I have anything against whorehouses - just that in terms of sheer entertainment and variety of venues, BT (which actually IS the subject of the thread) has with the demise of Throb (Copa never lived up to it IMHO), LCR (in its heyday), Amor, My Life/Oscars, Funny Boys, fallen a long way behind. That's not to say that it's not worth a visit - of course it is.

Take Gran Canaria (which I know you are familiar with) - as you know there's a huge number of gay bars in the Yumbo Centre alone which I'd suggest outnumber Sunee, BT, and Jomtiem put together. Not just the number but the variety is streets ahead - twinky bars, bear bars, leather bars, fetish bars, sex bars, show bars, sports bars. There's shopping, street stalls with jewellery, art, crafts, etc. Personally I'm not interested in all of those venues but it does lift your heart to see the variety.

In BT there are gogo bars and beer bars, every one following the same format, then there's BBB (overpriced and boring IMHO - I have set foot in it twice in 20yrs). As I said - if you want to dine in BT, you're basically fucked unless you use the Ambience restaurant. I acknowledge some bars will have food brought in for you.

Where BT scores is of course in the easily available sex - I don't deny that for one minute - and if that's all someone is interested in (or their main interest) then no wonder they keep returning and good luck to them - but I did qualify my original remarks by saying "apart from the readily available sex" or words to that effect.

Even amongst those for whom sex is the main motivator, I suspect even they can't deny that BT is fast going downhill.

[arsenal]

Not just BT. The whole scene sadly.

[gerefan2]

Not just BT. The whole scene sadly.

Except Jomtien...

[Oliver2]

I enjoyed Sitges and Barcelona but there was little for those of my generation other than a couple of saunas with money-boys. That's another thing that makes Pattaya different. I suspect that the scene is dying because our generation is popping its clogs. And our successors have led very different gay-lives.

[paborn]

I enjoyed Sitges and Barcelona but there was little for those of my generation other than a couple of saunas with money-boys. That's another thing that makes Pattaya different. I suspect that the scene is dying because our generation is popping its clogs. And our successors have led very different gay-lives.
Rather an insightfull view. The next generation is online and functioning in a gay world were even a simple gay bar is a vanishing need. Perhaps, as society gets more free we'll see online go-go selection sites - with delivery!

[aot871]

Not just BT. The whole scene sadly.

Its the same old story they price them selves out of the market with ever higher drink prices , clubed together with the really bad exchange rates. Then if you want a gay hotel again the prices in some of them are way too high even in low season ,Take the Bann sury , the cheapest room at the moment is about 2800 bht., Most of pattayas gay visitors are now of pension age who look after their money and every cent counts. The only thing which has not gone up in price is the amount which guys pay the boys ,1000/1500. When i first came to Pattaya the off fee was around 200bht , now look what it is ,, between 3/400 bht, again its the bar making the money

[paborn]

Its the same old story they price them selves out of the market with ever higher drink prices , clubed together with the really bad exchange rates. Then if you want a gay hotel again the prices in some of them are way too high even in low season ,Take the Bann sury , the cheapest room at the moment is about 2800 bht., Most of pattayas gay visitors are now of pension age who look after their money and every cent counts. The only thing which has not gone up in price is the amount which guys pay the boys ,1000/1500. When i first came to Pattaya the off fee was around 200bht , now look what it is ,, between 3/400 bht, again its the bar making the money

I feel your pain, but to really know if the bar or hotel is at fault you would have to look at rent and all other business expenses. The boys are getting the same; I wonder how their cost of living has risen.

[AsDaRa]

Rather an insightfull view. The next generation is online and functioning in a gay world were even a simple gay bar is a vanishing need. Perhaps, as society gets more free we'll see online go-go selection sites - with delivery!

I don't believe the reason the next generation doesn't go to Pattaya to keep the scene alive, is because they grew up in an online world.
In the gay world age matters more than in the hetero world. Looks also matter more.
The bulk of gay men, certainly when they approach age 40, will in the West not easily get sex anymore with their preferred type. Only the best looking will.

So there MUST be a market for guys from the new generation (the one before the generation of most board members) for going to Thailand to get hot boys from bars.

If this isn't happening, if that generation stays home, then I think the reason is financial. That generation has it financially less than the previous one.

[Moses]

So there MUST be a market for guys from the new generation (the one before the generation of most board members) for going to Thailand to get hot boys from bars.

If this isn't happening, if that generation stays home, then I think the reason is financial. That generation has it financially less than the previous one.

Yeah, market exists. It has name "applications". You don't need to travel abroad to find exactly what you want (our case - Asians). Just fire application and you will have offers. At my 50+, with preferences for 25-30 yo Asian bottoms I receive 4-5 offers weekly even while I never do "first steps" myself. But for to be lucky you should live in the big city.

[scottish-guy]

It's not just Thailand

If you look at the "gay scene" in the UK you'll find that it too is a pale shadow of what it was say 20 years ago.

I have recently been out and about in Edinburgh, Newcastle, London, and Glasgow - all of which have substantially empty gay bars 5 nights a week and only busy Fri/Sat. In fact some gay bars in Newcastle were extremely quiet even on the Sat night!

If I go back to when I was 20, the gay bars in Glasgow & Edinburgh were bouncing every night and rammed full Fri/Sat/Sun - and there were actually more of them as the "scene" has actually shrunk over that time

I also visited Manchester which has the largest gay scene in the UK and the pattern is the same with the added observation that only those bars attracting the under 30's are busy - older guys are just not bothering.

My own opinion is that Gay venues are on the way out. Youngsters 18 to mid 20's like the novelty and of course they can all screw each other. Those over 30 are frequenting gay venues less and those of us over 50 probably don't even bother - the venues are just not catering to our age range (too loud, terrible service, and no chance of a shag) - many of us are just as happy sitting in a chain pub paying a more reasonable price, maybe having a bar meal and having a quieter experience. If you really want a sex meet with a teen or twink then you are infinitely more likely to find it on Grindr than in a gay bar

Of course it should be different in Thailand - because Quasi Modo could get laid - but as has been said the costs (except the boys) keep escalating, the quality keeps deteriorating, and (with the possible exception of highly motivated sex tourists) once you get to a certain age the hassle and increasing expense outweighs the diminishing reward.

For myself - after over 20 trips I've no idea when I'll next visit Thailand - my situation has changed, I'm not motivated, and I can think of alternative and better ways to blow £4K in two weeks.

From what others say about closed businesses and dark streets I think it might even depress me if I did visit - so it won't be in the forseeable future.

Cue MiniMee

[AsDaRa]

Yeah, market exists. It has name "applications". You don't need to travel abroad to find exactly what you want (our case - Asians). Just fire application and you will have offers. At my 50+, with preferences for 25-30 yo Asian bottoms I receive 4-5 offers weekly even while I never do "first steps" myself. But for to be lucky you should live in the big city.

Sadly in my area hardly any Asians to see. I live in a small city in the Netherlands. When I fire up an app not many of my type (the bulk of course who isn't an escort at all).
Also prostitution prices here are way more then in Thailand. You can get escorts of your type for sure, but it can cost up to 8 times more.
Yes you are right, if you live in NY City or so then it is easy to find a boy of your dreams, maybe even for a reasonable price. What is the price for an escort in your area? Or in a big city you even find easily free ones who are into 50+ ? I need to move :-)
In the Netherlands 150-200 EUR per hour is normal. Almost 8 times as much as in Thailand. So for 7-8 boys in Thailand you have one here.

[Moses]

Yes you are right, if you live in NY City or so then it is easy to find a boy of your dreams, maybe even for a reasonable price. What is the price for an escort in your area? Or in a big city you even find easily free ones who are into 50+ ? I need to move :-)
In the Netherlands 150-200 EUR per hour is normal. Almost 8 times as much as in Thailand. So for 7-8 boys in Thailand you have one here.

Currently I'm living in Moscow. Here scene has 2 points:
- most of local gays prefer Europeans
- top:bottom ratio is around 3:5

I'm top so I receive a lot of offers and may be picky, and since most local guys decline offers from Asians I have quite wide "market" on my plate :)
Oh, forgot: for such results I use Blued - there are a lot of Asians and not that much Europeans. Also Hornet is good here.

I don't know current prices, but I checked it about 4 years ago for my foreign friend and it was $150-300 per night.

[Josan]

A certain person already well invested in the area was in Le Cafe Royal with blueprints and builders a couple of weeks ago. Any one heard any more?

[Davey612]

There was a time during the last century that it was taboo to say you are a bottom. Nowadays, tops are a rare specimen. I am speaking in general terms, of course.

But back to the topic. I believe it is generational. The millennials want to do everything online. I bet the next generation will be tired of all the constant non-happening online hookups and disappearing profiles. I bet they'll start going to physical locations; either be bars or "smoke" rooms.

I also predict that because of the need for physical touch, technology may try to improvise on AI porno. But in the end, there will be a demand for the oldest profession in human life. Will Thailand still provide the venue. Most likely yes. Will the customers be the same way as last century (that is older Westerner and younger Thai money boy)? Most likely it will diversify to include older other ethnic groups (which is actually happening anyway). It has never been the issue of skin color but the size of your wallet. Will Pattaya still be the main venue? IDK

[Nirish guy]

For myself - after over 20 trips I've no idea when I'll next visit Thailand - my situation has changed, I'm not motivated, and I can think of alternative and better ways to blow £4K in two weeks.

Well thank god, so it’s NOT just me who feels like that then, good, I was beginning to wonder was I loosing the plot but yes I concur with nearly everything you said in your post GB.

Re gay bars in general I go for a nosey and to be around PUL but here in my home town I can now count on one finger the number of time I’d darken the door of our local gay bars and every time I go I promise myself it’ll be a year before I go back.

Re Thailand you’re right about blowing thousands in a short space of time and coming home and thinking “for what” - a shag ( ok maybe multiple shags :-) but still compared to other trips ( where I’ll still get laid) I can and do spend three and four times more when I’m thailand than other places and too many times have found myself in some dingy bar in Sunee, with no running water ( except the water in your watered down drink) and a hand towel hanging in the toilets you’d be scared to touch never mind actually dry your hands with and find myself thinking WTF am I doing here - to be fair that’s pribably more to do with my choice of establishment though !).

As an indicator on my next trip I’ve actally reduced my Thai segment down to just 3 nights in Bkk and 2 in Patts as as you say on reading bar closures etc I just couldn’t be arsed walking around dark dead Sunee etc ( and don’t like Jomtien so much)

But I’m hoping this trip will re invigorate my love of all things Thai, but I said that the last time I seem to recall too. We’ll see I guess.

[a447]

I get the impression that Thailand is becoming more and more expensive for sex tourists like myself. If you want to have a good time, it's not for the faint-hearted, at least in Bangkok.

I haven't been to Pattaya since December 2016, but am planning to return soon. But the more I look at my itinerary the more I want to decrease my number of nights in Pattaya. BBB does nothing for me if the guys are in jeans, Sunee appears to be on its last legs, and I'm not interested in the fems in Jomtien Complex.

The last time I was in Boyztown, I didn't really enjoy it. Prisma bar was deserted and the really attractive guys at Toyboys were all sitting outside, apparently unavailable. BBB was boring! I was told it was because of a police crackdown.

I have a regular guy in Pattaya but he's up north somewhere and probably won't come back to Pattaya for just a few days.

So instead of Pattaya, I'm considering Chiang Mai or Siem Reap.

[Nirish guy]

Oh dear - pattaya really IS in trouble if hardened whores ( and I use that term as a compliment of course :) such as ourselves are now even saying "hang on, fuck this, I can't be bothered with there so much anymore"

[arsenal]

Hiring a motorbike, not just in Pattaya but Phuket and Chiang Mai too will bring back the pleasure level but just in a different way. A cheap cheap way to have loads of fun. Then the sex,is a bonus, not the only attraction.

[Oliver2]

For a Londoner who has seen better days, just being in a gay village is itself a joy. Cute guys left, right and centre (admittedly fewer than in the 90s), non-judgemental falangs (those of us left)..... not to mention a Certain Person whom I'm with for less than three months a year. More than seventy visits and only three weeks before my next one and my heart still beats faster at the prospect.

[arsenal]

In a nutshell Oliver sums it up.

[colmx]

So instead of Pattaya, I'm considering Chiang Mai or Siem Reap.
I find nothing like a few days in the shitness of CM & SRs so called gay scenes, along with the awful touts in both cities is just enough to re-kindle my love for Pattaya!
Phnom Penh with its burgeoning gay scene on the other hand... would give Pattaya a run for its money these days... its a pity that a lot of the customers in the gay bars are straight gawkers who don't even buy drinks, they are nothing but oxygen thieves!

[paborn]

I get the impression that Thailand is becoming more and more expensive for sex tourists like myself. If you want to have a good time, it's not for the faint-hearted, at least in Bangkok.

I haven't been to Pattaya since December 2016, but am planning to return soon. But the more I look at my itinerary the more I want to decrease my number of nights in Pattaya. BBB does nothing for me if the guys are in jeans, Sunee appears to be on its last legs, and I'm not interested in the fems in Jomtien Complex.

The last time I was in Boyztown, I didn't really enjoy it. Prisma bar was deserted and the really attractive guys at Toyboys were all sitting outside, apparently unavailable. BBB was boring! I was told it was because of a police crackdown.

I have a regular guy in Pattaya but he's up north somewhere and probably won't come back to Pattaya for just a few days.

So instead of Pattaya, I'm considering Chiang Mai or Siem Reap.
a447, I see this all the time about Toy Boys and it confuses me. It's really the only bar I go to. Yes, I'll walk around, spread some Bhat to other gay establishments and use the Ambieance massage service regularly. But Toy Bos is my number one and the only bar I off from - it just works out because they know me and treat me well. If I want to sit outside , chat up the "advertising eye candy" I surely can and either off from there or bring someone inside to drink enjoy the go-go and then go to the hotel. Actually, some of the boys only work outside but others, especially any hunk who might catch a punter's eye in the street , roate outside. I have never had any issue - if any of these boys are unavailable I would be shocked as I've never experienced it. BY the way, I heard the same regarding Scorpion bar in Bangkok from some guys on this board whoswe opinions I trust, but last time I stopped in BKK for a few days I offed 4 boys from there , one doll about 5 times ( dates during the day ) and they were bringing me Vietnamese friends of thier's after the other bar's closed so I could meet them. I can't imagine this was just for me - I'd never stopped at Scorpion before.Now, these Vietnamese guys are not great performers but they were gorgeous and met my needs.

[a447]

In my experience at Toyboys, the guys on stage are eager enough, but those outside do not make eye contact. I have read that it is because they are either eye-candy to attract punters, or they only go with girls.

If that is not the case, then I'll have to drop in again next time I'm in town.

When Scorpion opened they had a couple of really attractive Vietnamese guys working there, but they were strictly off limits. I went there night after night and eventually the mamasan told me they were not available.

The other Vietnamese guys, however, were.

[DrewSpz]

So where can we get Vietnamese boys?

[Nirish guy]

Phnom Penh with its burgeoning gay scene on the other hand... would give Pattaya a run for its money these days... !

Interesting you say that as my mate is just back from several weeks doing the rounds, he was just so so re pattaya as all same sane but raves about Phnom Penh, but knowing how he’s weird ideas about things I asked him was he SURE as I found it just “ok” to which he said no, that he’d a great time in the bars and clubs ( he mentioned the str8s too though) but said he still had a ball and would and will go back in a heart beat - so yeah seems like things are improving there somewhat from before.

[paborn]

In my experience at Toyboys, the guys on stage are eager enough, but those outside do not make eye contact. I have read that it is because they are either eye-candy to attract punters, or they only go with girls.

If that is not the case, then I'll have to drop in again next time I'm in town.

When Scorpion opened they had a couple of really attractive Vietnamese guys working there, but they were strictly off limits. I went there night after night and eventually the mamasan told me they were not available.

The other Vietnamese guys, however, were.
Different times, different boys - perhaps, I did not want the one's "off limits" my experience is limited to a few days a couple of years ago. But, Toy Boys has never been an issue - I guess I never worry about eye contact, I'm not picking up in a conventional bar - so, I pick out what I like and offer and have never had a no. Could the fact that I go there every night and off each night - sometimes back for a second gives me a priviledge ? I have no idea but I've had more than a few from outside.

[a447]

Well, I was tossing up, so to speak, between Phnom Pehn and Siem Reap as an alternative to Pattaya.

I had fun in Hatha Khmer Spa and the Space Bar in PP and at a massage place in SR. And lots of fun with the guys at Adams Apple.

Mmmm...PP is now sounding interesting. Another attraction in PP is Arthur and Paul Hotel.

I'll keep an eye on the forums to see what is happening in Pattaya before I decide.

[arsenal]

a447. Sorry but that's simply not true about the doormen at Toy Boys. I've offed two of them quite recently and both were straight and both gave full satisfaction.

But, and I know this will sound like an arsehole (bite if you choose) but I go to Boyztown every evening and I visit Pattaya 5 or 6 times a year so I am well known by many boys and have a fucking excellent reputation with them. And honestly, deservedly so because I treat them properly.

[a447]

I wasn't talking about the doormen - I was referring to the gogo boys who sit outside.

Is that who you meant?

I saw lots of handsome, sexy guys sitting at the tables outside but they showed little interest in anyone, unlike the guys inside the bar.

Maybe I got the wrong impression.

[arsenal]

Well when they're sitting.outside they're on a break so...... They go back inside after about 20 minutes.

[gerefan2]

Well when they're sitting.outside they're on a break so...... They go back inside after about 20 minutes.

Some dont.

[arsenal]

Really! They sit there all night? I can't say I've noticed that but perhaps they have their reasons. I can say that I've ever had a problem offing a boy I wanted from there. If they're outside it's easy to have a little chat with them without the need to buy them a drink.

[paborn]

Really! They sit there all night? I can't say I've noticed that but perhaps they have their reasons. I can say that I've ever had a problem offing a boy I wanted from there. If they're outside it's easy to have a little chat with them without the need to buy them a drink.

Absolutely agree. But, I always take them inside to have a drink with me aand talk to them. I truly don't understand this idea that they just sit there... that would be very odd indeed.

[gerefan2]

I get the feeling, as mentioned above somewhere, that the ones outside prefer to go with women but do go with guys. Maybe they are straight.
It is noticeable that when a gang of women walk in they suddenly all come inside and parade in front of them.
Best ask Mr Put next time you are in there, if you really want to know!

[paborn]

I get the feeling, as mentioned above somewhere, that the ones outside prefer to go with women but do go with guys. Maybe they are straight.
It is noticeable that when a gang of women walk in they suddenly all come inside and parade in front of them.
Best ask Mr Put next time you are in there, if you really want to know!

Absolutely true, for me as long as they are offable and agree to my desires is all I care about. God only knows how many "gay for pay" I've been with; especially in Latin America.

[christianpfc]

BBB does nothing for me if the guys are in jeans, Sunee appears to be on its last legs, and I'm not interested in the fems in Jomtien Complex.

The last time I was in Boyztown, I didn't really enjoy it. Prisma bar was deserted and the really attractive guys at Toyboys were all sitting outside, apparently unavailable. BBB was boring! I was told it was because of a police crackdown.
I wouldn't say so. I always enjoyed my time in Sunnee gogo bars, and have to make an effort to leave Sunee and go to Boystown.

I concur about Toyboys. Last year I saw a very cute boy fully dressed outside, and he approached me, so we exchanged facebook. On my next visit I wanted to meet him in the afternoon right after arriving in Pattaya, but he wanted 1500 for short time. That's the second bar in Pattaya that I blacklist (the other is BBB for boys in jeans).


Different times, different boys - perhaps, I did not want the one's "off limits" my experience is limited to a few days a couple of years ago. But, Toy Boys has never been an issue - I guess I never worry about eye contact, I'm not picking up in a conventional bar - so, I pick out what I like and offer and have never had a no. Could the fact that I go there every night and off each night - sometimes back for a second gives me a priviledge ? I have no idea but I've had more than a few from outside.
Telling us how much you pay might give a clue. Customers who pay above average and are not demanding are probably always welcome. But for those like me, who think 1000 for short time is a fair price and 1500 is outrageous, better go elsewhere.

Numbers, ladies, numbers! A lot of observations can be explained just by knowing how much was paid.

[scottish-guy]

The implication of your last post, Christian, is that you not only have your own tariff but that you are also demanding!

So apart from lack of body hair, a certain skin temperature, and white briefs - I for one am wondering what are your other “demands”

:D

[paborn]

I wouldn't say so. I always enjoyed my time in Sunnee gogo bars, and have to make an effort to leave Sunee and go to Boystown.

I concur about Toyboys. Last year I saw a very cute boy fully dressed outside, and he approached me, so we exchanged facebook. On my next visit I wanted to meet him in the afternoon right after arriving in Pattaya, but he wanted 1500 for short time. That's the second bar in Pattaya that I blacklist (the other is BBB for boys in jeans).


Telling us how much you pay might give a clue. Customers who pay above average and are not demanding are probably always welcome. But for those like me, who think 1000 for short time is a fair price and 1500 is outrageous, better go elsewhere.

Numbers, ladies, numbers! A lot of observations can be explained just by knowing how much was paid.
Well, your paying less than I do - 1,500 short time - 2,000 long and if we romp again in the morning 2,500.

[paborn]

The implication of your last post, Christian, is that you not only have your own tariff but that you are also demanding!

So apart from lack of body hair, a certain skin temperature, and white briefs - I for one am wondering what are your other “demands”

:D
Not to speak for someone, but remember the sink in the room has to be optimal height for pissing. Right, or is my memory faulty?

[gerefan2]

I concur about Toyboys. Last year I saw a very cute boy fully dressed outside, and he approached me, so we exchanged facebook. On my next visit I wanted to meet him in the afternoon right after arriving in Pattaya, but he wanted 1500 for short time.


Customers who pay above average and are not demanding are probably always welcome. But for those like me, who think 1000 for short time is a fair price and 1500 is outrageous, better go elsewhere.


1500 Bt Short Time for a boy you fancy in Boyztown is definitely NOT outrageous. Its the norm nowadays. Not only that you would be saving the off fee and cost of two drinks.
You missed out on one you liked for that extra 500 Baht... 13.12 Euros. Fuck me you must be hard up!

[scottish-guy]

Not to speak for someone, but remember the sink in the room has to be optimal height for pissing. Right, or is my memory faulty?

Wow - that's the first I've heard of that. You just have to look at the selection of DVDs in German sex shops (as I have frequently done) to see just how kinky they are

:p

[paborn]

Wow - that's the first I've heard of that. You just have to look at the selection of DVDs in German sex shops (as I have frequently done) to see just how kinky they are

:p
I could be wrong, I so frequently am, but the availability of the sink for pissing is part of hotel evaluations in his blog. I recall a rather convoluted reason not to use the tolite but I never quite grasped it.

[AsDaRa]

Well, your paying less than I do - 1,500 short time - 2,000 long and if we romp again in the morning 2,500.

I thought two fucks are included by default in long time. So you have to pay extra in the morning when you take a boy long time? I never do long time, but I always understood the second fuck is part of the deal.

[a447]

.. but I always understood the second fuck is part of the deal.

Some boys, unfortunately, understand differently.

In the days when I was doing long time, a few guys were reluctant to have a morning session, despite being told that was part of the deal.

I still paid them long time but made it very clear that I would not off them ever again.

There are plenty of fish in the sea and I made sure he knew that.

[scottish-guy]

I could be wrong, I so frequently am, but the availability of the sink for pissing is part of hotel evaluations in his blog. I recall a rather convoluted reason not to use the tolite but I never quite grasped it.

Awww - so it's not some kink after all?

Highly disappointed

:cray_mini:

[christianpfc]

The implication of your last post, Christian, is that you not only have your own tariff but that you are also demanding!

So apart from lack of body hair, a certain skin temperature, and white briefs - I for one am wondering what are your other “demands”

:D
I should have added that I'm not demanding, but pay at the lower end of the range of tips. The boy's underwear can be white, black, gray, red, orange, green, yellow or purple or any mix or pattern of those.

Well, your paying less than I do - 1,500 short time - 2,000 long and if we romp again in the morning 2,500.
Well, 1500 seems to be the going rate for ST in various bars in Boystown, so it's not that you are paying over the top. But I will stick to those where 1000 is gratefully accepted.

1500 Bt Short Time for a boy you fancy in Boyztown is definitely NOT outrageous. Its the norm nowadays. Not only that you would be saving the off fee and cost of two drinks.
You missed out on one you liked for that extra 500 Baht... 13.12 Euros. Fuck me you must be hard up!
I don't want to contribute to inflationary rise of prices. You have to draw the line somewhere. For short time for 1500 I could stay in Bangkok (where that would be the lower end of of the range nowadays).

I could be wrong, I so frequently am, but the availability of the sink for pissing is part of hotel evaluations in his blog. I recall a rather convoluted reason not to use the tolite but I never quite grasped it.
You are right, I mentioned this twice. Pissing in the sink is so convenient, just open your zipper, no need to pull down your trousers or to sit down. Saves a lot of time and effort. Just like flip-flops save a lot of time and effort (not having to sit down or even worse to bend down to do laces, and with that usually comes wearing socks). Beside boys, a weather that allows wearing flip-flops all year round is one main reason why I spend so much time in Thailand.

[Smiles]

Beside boys, a weather that allows wearing flip-flops all year round is one main reason why I spend so much time in Thailand.
An interesting aside on 'reasons to live in Thailand' ... what was the title of this thread anyway?
After reading the above quote from our board Resident Eccentric I completely agree with his take on footwear in Thailand.
I leave to others the part regarding "beside boys": most members here know I'm a long-termer closing mercilessly in on 20 years now, but the observation on sandals/flipflops/socks definitely resonates.
Looking at our shoe rack one would find at least six pairs each just in sandals. Plus he wears cheap flip flops: he can handle that nasty little piece of rubber/cloth/leather which resides hatefully between big toe and it's next door neighbour but I just end up with the very least a nasty rash and often a bleedingly raw blister. I hate those things!
The best flip flops are those which are divested of that little guillotine ... the absolute best are made by Adidas, expensive but I've had one pair which has lasted eight years and still hanging in there. I have four more of the same, of different hues for different moods . . . the black pair I use for funerals.
All those are glued to my feet day in and day out. The comfort quotient is exquisite, and that's from day one. https://www.adidas.com/us/duramo-slide/G15890.html

I have lots of socks in a draw somehere in the house, never used.

I have only one pair of leather shoes, and even they are worn without socks ... so soft and old and pliable that my feet slip into them as cleanly and comfortably as an ex gogo boy's well-lubed bubble butt.
The absolute best leather shoes to wear in Thailand -- if you really must! -- is the Sperry boat shoe. It's all you'll ever need.
https://www.sperry.com/CA/en_CA/authentic-original-boat-shoe/10118M.html?dwvar_10118M_color=0197640#cgid=men-shoes-boat-shoes&start=1

[Brad the Impala]

Pissing in the sink is so convenient, just open your zipper, no need to pull down your trousers or to sit down. Saves a lot of time and effort.

In order to pee most men don't usually need to sit down or pull their trousers down. This seems a very poor excuse. I think it's fairly disgusting to do that unless in extremis.

[gerefan2]

You are right, I mentioned this twice. Pissing in the sink is so convenient, just open your zipper, no need to pull down your trousers or to sit down. Saves a lot of time and effort. Just like flip-flops save a lot of time and effort .

Please explain how pissing in the hotel sink saves time. It takes seconds to walk to the toilet and piss there plus there is no need to clean the sink before you wash your face or clean your teeth in it....er, you do clean it afterwards dont you... dont you??

[Nirish guy]

Somehow I fear we all already know the answer to that one perhaps :-(.

[Smiles]

I am much more comfortable discussing the pros and cons of types of footwear one should or should not wear in Thailand. A sly movement into pissing, or not pissing into a bar's washup sinks is a segue beyond the pale.

[scottish-guy]

...no need to clean the sink before you wash your face or clean your teeth in it....

Notwithstanding the etiquette around peeing in the sink, you're completely overlooking the fact that SGT members generally clean their teeth overnight in a glass

:p

[Kenny]

The best flip flops are those which are divested of that little guillotine ... the absolute best are made by Adidas, expensive but I've had one pair which has lasted eight years and still hanging in there. I have four more of the same, of different hues for different moods . . . the black pair I use for funerals.
All those are glued to my feet day in and day out. The comfort quotient is exquisite, and that's from day one. https://www.adidas.com/us/duramo-slide/G15890.html

Thanks for that Smiles, I just ordered a pair:)

[paborn]

In order to pee most men don't usually need to sit down or pull their trousers down. This seems a very poor excuse. I think it's fairly disgusting to do that unless in extremis.

I woukld also add that the tolite is next to the sink - is it that far out oif the way?

[paborn]

An interesting aside on 'reasons to live in Thailand' ... what was the title of this thread anyway?
After reading the above quote from our board Resident Eccentric I completely agree with his take on footwear in Thailand.
I leave to others the part regarding "beside boys": most members here know I'm a long-termer closing mercilessly in on 20 years now, but the observation on sandals/flipflops/socks definitely resonates.
Looking at our shoe rack one would find at least six pairs each just in sandals. Plus he wears cheap flip flops: he can handle that nasty little piece of rubber/cloth/leather which resides hatefully between big toe and it's next door neighbour but I just end up with the very least a nasty rash and often a bleedingly raw blister. I hate those things!
The best flip flops are those which are divested of that little guillotine ... the absolute best are made by Adidas, expensive but I've had one pair which has lasted eight years and still hanging in there. I have four more of the same, of different hues for different moods . . . the black pair I use for funerals.
All those are glued to my feet day in and day out. The comfort quotient is exquisite, and that's from day one. https://www.adidas.com/us/duramo-slide/G15890.html

I have lots of socks in a draw somehere in the house, never used.

I have only one pair of leather shoes, and even they are worn without socks ... so soft and old and pliable that my feet slip into them as cleanly and comfortably as an ex gogo boy's well-lubed bubble butt.
The absolute best leather shoes to wear in Thailand -- if you really must! -- is the Sperry boat shoe. It's all you'll ever need.
https://www.sperry.com/CA/en_CA/authentic-original-boat-shoe/10118M.html?dwvar_10118M_color=0197640#cgid=men-shoes-boat-shoes&start=1

Just ordered a apir - thanks!

[Brad the Impala]

I'm buying shares in Sperry as soon as the markets open. Once the fashion icons who post here start wearing these shoes, the world en masse will surely follow.

[scottish-guy]

...The absolute best leather shoes to wear in Thailand ....is the Sperry boat shoe. It's all you'll ever need...

I always wear boat shoes when I'm there - so I can sashay round BT smirking and thinking to myself "Little do those losers know I don't even have a boat"

[francois]

The best flip flops are those which are divested of that little guillotine ... the absolute best are made by Adidas, expensive but I've had one pair which has lasted eight years and still hanging in there. ]

That is not a flip-flop, Smiles, it is a Slide, even Adidas refers to it as a Slide.

Perhaps I am an exception, but the barefoot is not an attraction to me especially those of older farang.

[Nirish guy]

I always wear boat shoes when I'm there - so I can sashay round BT smirking and thinking to myself "Little do those losers know I don't even have a boat"

You know it's strange as i'm guessing that most of the farang in Pattaya must own a boat and a BIG boat at that as all I ever hear them talking about is how they spend their time in Pattaya in a crazed hunt for yet more and more seamen - and no matter the amount they say they find that apparently is still never enough and they claim to want more ! So that must be one hell of a size of boat that THAT own that's all I can say !! :)

[christianpfc]

In order to pee most men don't usually need to sit down or pull their trousers down. This seems a very poor excuse. I think it's fairly disgusting to do that unless in extremis.
I assume you pee into the toilet, hopefully put the seat up before you do?

Please explain how pissing in the hotel sink saves time. It takes seconds to walk to the toilet and piss there plus there is no need to clean the sink before you wash your face or clean your teeth in it....er, you do clean it afterwards dont you... dont you??
Of course I clean the sink afterwards! Even better, I use the water from washing my hands to rinse the sink, saving water compared to flushing toilet.

[bkkguy]

A sly movement into pissing, or not pissing into a bar's washup sinks is a segue beyond the pale.

and where exactly on the "segue beyond the pale" scale is admitting to being able to "cleanly and comfortably" slip one's foot into an "ex gogo boy's well-lubed bubble butt" - out of good taste we will gloss over the need for cleaning afterwards


So that must be one hell of a size of boat that THAT own that's all I can say !! :)

well you know what it's like with big ones like that - it's all hands on the mast with seamen running everywhere

bkkguy

[paborn]

I thought two fucks are included by default in long time. So you have to pay extra in the morning when you take a boy long time? I never do long time, but I always understood the second fuck is part of the deal.

20 years ago yes. But, as they are more and more reluctant to do longtime there has to be a reason. I seldom do long term anymore. But, I have made it clear to the bar that short term to me is 2 hours and I tip above average. So far, so good- i think it helps that i favor one bar and tip the manager who sits with me well too. issues evaporate and you get a rep of being fair. I wait and save for my trips; as I prepare for my 28 trip since 1987 I see little profit in losing out over ten dollars or less.