Poll :Traveler checks or cash?

[dab69]

Just wondering how many of us use travelers checks on their Land of Smiles vacations?

[cdnmatt]

Traveller's checks still exist? Why?

[joe552]

I agree with Matt - I thought they disappeared years ago. I use a mix of cash and my debit card.

[dab69]

I used travelers checks maybe once. I have noticed at some exchange (Boystown) offering a slightly higher conversion for travelers checks. But it is a little worrisome arriving with a wallet fat with fresh large bills. Credit card offered a PIN # for cash advance but I worry about that also. Have too many passwords/PINs to remember already.

[gerefan2]

Cash is King. By far the cheapest. Put it straight into your Thai bank account after changing it

[Nirish guy]

I agree with Matt - I thought they disappeared years ago. I use a mix of cash and my debit card.

I'm sure you're already aware Joe but as you've mentioned that cash is tight for you for god sake dont be using that debit card unless you have too as it's an expensive way of getting cash in your hand when overseas as you could end up paying TWO banks fees and get a shitty exchange rate into the bargain if you're not careful ( and even if you ARE careful).

In the UK at least the limit for carrying undeclared cash out of the Country is about £10k so I find that an envelope of hard cash carried in the bottom of my HAND luggage and then stuck into the safe on arrival at my hotel always works for me ( assuming you're staying in reasonably safe accomodation that is of course), but so far (touch wood) I've had no problems doing that and it means I dont have to worry about finding the "right brand" of ATM, nor remember any PIN numbers or worry about the bloody bank stopping my card for no absolutely no apparent reason thus screwing me up on a night out ( all of which has happened before!). when I DID use to use my card/s any time I came home I cringed when I added up the various different card charges, which sometimes totally to a few hundred quid when all added together !

[joe552]

Thanks, NIrish. I'll have my debit card purely as an emergency measure. I don't usually bring €10k on my holidays (I wish), but I'm careful in terms of security in the room. I'm staying at Yensabai Condo, so expect it to be ok, but I take nothing for granted. Twice my card has been stopped by my bank - it was my own fault, I forgot to tell them I was going away, but it's a pain in the arse. I tend to stash it in the safe if it is fixed down. If it's not, I'll hide it in various places around the room. Of course, this opens up the possibility of me forgetting where I've put it all.

[samebb]

While cash might be king for short trips, for longer trips it's probably unwise or impossible with immigration restrictions. For longer trips, here are the options I have used and know others use also to save loosing money on stupid bank charges.

The smartest thing to do is come in on a 2-month SETV (single entry tourist visa) and setup and Thai Bank account. You can then wire money even before you arrive, scoring on times with good exchange rates if you are really smart. This works for all nationalities, pretty much...

For Americans, I know a number of people that use Charles Schwab. They give you free ATM withdrawals and even refund foreign bank charges, not bad..

For Brits, check out a new banking app called Revolut. You can load this app with money from your UK bank, by card or bank transfer. You do not get charged for ATM withrawals and they DO NOT fuck you on exchange rates. They give you exact, real time rates. This app is also very secure. You can disable your cards when not using them, and get notified immediatly via notification on your phone of any account activity. If you loose your card, no worries. They post a new one to you in 2 days, anywhere in the world (at least they say)... I haven't lost mine. The card is a mastercard and you can use it anywhere. It also keeps track of your expenditure month by month, which is pretty cool if you are poor.

Well, my 2cents. As for travellers checks. It's 2018......

[frequent]

For Brits, check out a new banking app called Revolut. You can load this app with money from your UK bank, by card or bank transfer. You do not get charged for ATM withrawals and they DO NOT fuck you on exchange rates. They give you exact, real time rates. This app is also very secure. You can disable your cards when not using them, and get notified immediatly via notification on your phone of any account activity. If you loose your card, no worries. They post a new one to you in 2 days, anywhere in the world (at least they say)... I haven't lost mine. The card is a mastercard and you can use it anywhere. It also keeps track of your expenditure month by month, which is pretty cool if you are poor.Can you give us some examples of how you use it in Thailand?

[Nirish guy]

. You do not get charged for ATM withrawals and they DO NOT fuck you on exchange rates. They give you exact, real time rates...

That certainly seems like an interesting / useful app and not wanting to skate it without giving it a fair shot I’d just highlight the FREE ATM withdrawal limit of £200 a month for their free App and £400 for their premium App ( which costs £6.99 a month ) - anything ATM withdrawls over those amounts it appears they then charge a 2% fee on all withdrawals.

Again I’m not knocking the app as it does seem to have several very handy features, but just flagging that up as if used over a few trips over month or two I guess that 2% could start to add up - Mind you no more ( less probably) than the banks are probably stoking is all for anyway !

[samebb]

That certainly seems like an interesting / useful app and not wanting to skate it without giving it a fair shot I’d just highlight the FREE ATM withdrawal limit of £200 a month for their free App and £400 for their premium App ( which costs £6.99 a month ) - anything ATM withdrawls over those amounts it appears they then charge a 2% fee on all withdrawals.

Again I’m not knocking the app as it does seem to have several very handy features, but just flagging that up as if used over a few trips over month or two I guess that 2% could start to add up - Mind you no more ( less probably) than the banks are probably stoking is all for anyway !

That's right. Although it's not a perfect option, it certainly helps me. The Thai bank account is really the way to go.
More and more places in Thailand and also surrounding places are starting to accept cards without charging additional handling fees. Having this handy app/card makes life very easy. I love how when I make a transaction in a store or restaurant, within seconds of me entering my PIN and pressing ENTER, my phone BUZZES and I have a notification of the exact amount I spent in both the local currency and mine. And I will add, I often check that on XE.COM within a few minutes and it's always pretty much spot on with the exchange rates.

As for the normal banks being more, sure. They are.
When I first got to Thailand and used an ATM with my UK Bank card, I checked my bank the next day and was horrified!
Not only was I paying 220 Baht at the Thai ATM as a fee when withdrawing 10000 Baht, my UK bank was charging me roughly 12 GBP in fees!

With Revolut, even If I pay the 2% on 10220 Baht ( at the time about 235 Pounds ) you are looking at paying only what? 4.70 GBP?

There are lots of options, but I rate this one as a good backup. It costs nothing to carry a back up card that can save you money when needed.

[goji]

Cash is King. By far the cheapest. Put it straight into your Thai bank account after changing it

Correct.

1 Check competitive rates on line before departing.
2 Arrive @ BKK, walk downstairs to the airport rail link, change the cash.
3 Ride the rail link into town, check in, shower.
4 Pay almost all the money into my Thai account using one of those paying in machines.

[Nirish guy]

So, i guess when you see above that 93% of us bring mostly cash I guess you can start to understand why we're all so wide open to getting our wallets dipped or our heads cracked open when back in the room to enabl;e guys to access that cash - however it's also good testament to the general honesty of the average thai guy that we meet, even in the dark and dingy bars we sometimes find ourselves, that so many of us HAVE been going for so long now without any particularily "major" dramas unfolding in our general direction......or maybe of course the guys just assume that we're all actually smarter than we actually are and never DREAM we'd be stupid enough to carry vast quanitities of cash on our person when on holiday - ah HA the old double bluff trick working at it's best again !! ( I'm currenty touching my wooden desk here in work as I type that mind !)

[Maxxy]

Cash is king for me, I used to use travelers cheques but stopped using them a long time ago, now it's cash but I do take a credit card that I use for paying the hotel bills or for emergency use should one arise

[Nirish guy]

Also worth noting that from the 13th of January ALL UK ( and EU) companies will be banned from charging a ANY transaction fee when you use your credit card for any reason - whilst you may think " so what's that got to do with Thailand" - obviously a lot of us book hotels and flights from EU / UK based Companies and those fees must now be waived - which over a year could result in quite a nice saving for the consumer. It'll be interesting to see if and how businesses intend to work around this rule ( as they surely will) either by some new surcharge or simply increasing the end user price, but from the 13th of Jan if you are still charged before sure to remind your supplier they're breaking the rule and insist they remove the 2 or 3 % (or more) transaction fee they have up until now been hitting us with !

[frequent]

Also worth noting that from the 13th of January ALL UK ( and EU) companies will be banned from charging a ANY transaction fee when you use your credit card for any reason ...Any transaction fee at all? Is that the same thing as capping the transaction fees reported in the UK press (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/27/cap-on-card-fees-retailers)? Capping is not the same as banning

[scottish-guy]

If I was one of the businesses affected by having Credit card fees abolished/capped, I'd simply increase my basic prices to recoup or even exceed the loss of those fees.

I'm constantly amazed when my own clients express surprise that it can cost me up to £120 in fees to accept their card for a major purchase - they seem to think that the interest free privilege they enjoy comes at no cost to anybody !

So, although I do not charge credit card fees myself, I rather suspect that's exactly what will happen with big business and it will all turn out not to have been of any benefit to the consumer at all.

For example, Ryanair was notorious for charging ludicrous credit card fees per person per sector whilst advertising flights at 99p. When that was stamped out the 99p flights disappeared and overnight increased to £9.99 or £19.99 - coincidence?

[frequent]

If I was one of the businesses affected by having Credit card fees abolished/capped, I'd simply increase my basic prices to recoup or even exceed the loss of those fees.Unfortunately for that theory, experience in those jurisdictions where excessive credit card fees were capped at a much lower rate - and I'm think specifically of Australia - shows that that simply didn't happen to any extent (if at all). The airlines - who were major serial abusers - simple copped the lesser fee and got on with their business. I guess NIrish guy will happen along soon and using a sample size of one and his vast experience will argue that that isn't so, and capped = abolished. My favourite story in reverse was when VAT of 7% was introduced in Thailand, and the place where I ordinarily enjoyed breakfast for 40 baht (ah, those were the days) immediately started charging me 47 baht - "new tax"

[scottish-guy]

But I've just given you a specific example of how my "theory" panned out in the UK retail market - do you regularly see those 99p Ryanair fares after the OFT expressed disapproval of their outrageous Credit Card charges?

[frequent]

But I've just given you a specific example of how my "theory" panned out in the UK retail market - do you regularly see those 99p Ryanair fares after the OFT expressed disapproval of their outrageous Credit Card charges?Yes, the famous sample size of one

[Nirish guy]

Any transaction fee at all? Is that the same thing as capping the transaction fees reported in the UK press (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/27/cap-on-card-fees-retailers)? Capping is not the same as banning


Oh ffs Frequent really sometimes I think you would argue black is white. I said ban - and that's what I meant - not a cap or something else - an outright BAN. Your link BTW is from 2015 and so is widely out of date and doesn't even refer to this piece of UK legislation.

This has been legislation that's been coming now here in the UK for over a year now and the 13th of Jan just happens to be it's start date hence why I mentioned it.

Bottom line if your client chooses to pay by debit / credit card you cannot charge them ANY more than someone who chooses to pay by other means - all transaction fees are BANNED - not capped. Is that clear and precise enough for you and again it's exactly what I said before - maybe go and google it before jumping in with crappy comments next time as hell it's not like it's some obscure law or something, it's been all over the press for months now ffs.

Below is just one random link re this which took me two seconds to find, feel free to go look on Google, there are hundreds more. This Includes links from from HRMC etc giving guidance on this very point and it's also interesting to note that HMRC themselves will now be refusing to accept debit / credit cards for payments any longer too solely because of this law as they too of course can no longer add on their usual 2 or 3% transaction / service fee any longer either.

Random Link : https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/cards/2017/07/credit-debit-card-fees-to-be-banned

With regard to what will businesses do etc ? Again Frequent I can ONLY tell you my thoughts AS IT HASN"T HAPPENED YET. However as I run a few businesses myself and IN MY OPINION and as it's going to cost ME quite a few thousand pounds over the year between those businesses I can tell you that I personally am sure as hell looking for some way to recoup that cost.

Currently unlike the rip off airlines etc I and many other smaller businesses only charge the true card processing fee COST to me ( usually around 2.5-3%) when someone chooses to use their card and personally and I think the new law is disgraceful as it's now in forcing ME to pay for someone else's decision to use credit facilities. It also does nothing to encourage or reduce the Country's overall reliance on credit card spending, which I think we sure as hell should be doing in general. Also in my view it's not my business if someone decides they need to use their "credit" card to pay for goods ( debit are currently free to use dont forget anyway) and I really dont see why I SHOULD pay for their choices or costs re that.

HOWEVER and yes FROM MY EXPERIENCE Frequent of talking with other businessmen re this at various business functions such as Chamber of Commerce and IoD meetings etc, I can tell you that whilst most of the businessmen i'd spoke to totally agree with me, we all, myself included, have a lingering fear that we're not actually going to be able to circumvent this cost easily and we WILL in fact just end up having to absorb the new cost into our own existing overheads without being able to increase our sales prices at all in the short term.

The reason being that that of course that would then penalise all our non card paying customers, which is in my opinion very unfair. In my case certainly they still by far outweigh those people or businesses who do choose to pay by card and I dont see why I / the many other people who dont should pay for those few ( as in my case at least). That would of course simply force us to push up our main prices and in todays competitive world thats something that I try to avoid where possible,

So, I'm guessing that what has happened in Austraila will end up happening here too i.e businesses WILL just be forced to suck it up and have to end up paying this cost themselves in someway- again just IN MY EXPERIENCE Frequent if that's enough for you - other than that I don't quite know what else you expect someone to add other than that when discussing these sorts of topics.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/cards/2017/07/credit-debit-card-fees-to-be-banned

[frequent]

So, I'm guessing that what has happened in Austraila will end up happening here too i.e businesses WILL just be forced to suck it up and have to end up paying this cost themselves in somewayExcellent news for consumers then

[Nirish guy]

Excellent news for consumers then

For those who use credit cards ( myself included) yes perhaps - and also excellent news that it's going to stop huge rip off fees being forced upon us by airlines and hotel sites etc. BUT as to it being good news or a sound law when it comes to fairness or helping small businesses who generally always just passed that cost on to their card using customers AT cost anyway, then no, not so much perhaps - as of course it will have to paid for SOMEHOW on down the line, but of course you know this anyway so no point going round in circles with you on that any further - but fell free to go on telling me about that CAP you were talking about and how it's not a ban, that was informative......albeit totally wrong of course.

[frequent]

... helping small businesses ...Businesses of any size have no god-given right to exist, let alone expect "help". If someone chooses to go into business they need to be nimble to cope with an ever-changing economic environment. Should the government be propping up newsagents, now that many of us no longer buy a newspaper but consume our news online? What about the black cab driver who bought his right to own a cab in the marketplace of the time and now sees its value heading rapidly down as Uber and other car-sharing services gain in popularity? They are small businesses. Should government "help" them, and on what basis? Unfortunately the mentality of so many businesspeople is, to quote the old saying, "what's good for General Motors is good for America" or, in more precise terms, they are rent-seekers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking), forever lobbying government to advantage them in some way for no reason other than that it's government's role to "help" them

[Nirish guy]

Businesses of any size have no god-given right to exist, let alone expect "help".

Nope, no more right than anything else to exist of course BUT in any Country where an entity such as small businesses employ upwards of 60% of the private sector employment jobs of COURSE it would be smart for the Government of the day to encourage, support and help that sector as they do with manufacturing etc, to think otherwise is nonsensical.

I mean why would they NOT as it's those very same small businesses who both create employment, pay wages ( hence NIC tax contributions by staff) and also pay Corporation tax on their profits (or at least they're meant to !) and process a large portion of the Country's VAT collections ( free of charge for the Government) so why would a Government NOT encourage and support that sector. Your argument makes absolutely no business sense.

Source - ( before you ask) - http://www.fsb.org.uk/media-centre/small-business-statistics

[frequent]

Nope, no more right than anything else to exist of course BUT in any Country where an entity such as small businesses employ upwards of 60% of the private sector employment jobs of COURSE it would be smart for the Government of the day to encourage, support and help that sector as they do with manufacturing etc, to think otherwise is nonsensical.

I mean why would they NOT as it's those very same small businesses who both create employment, pay wages ( hence NIC tax contributions by staff) and also pay Corporation tax on their profits (or at least they're meant to !) and process a large portion of the Country's VAT collections ( free of charge for the Government) so why would a Government NOT encourage and support that sector. Your argument makes absolutely no business sense.

Source - ( before you ask) - http://www.fsb.org.uk/media-centre/small-business-statisticsThat is a political statement about one aspect of how a modern democratic capitalist society should be organised. The central tenet of the modern democratic capitalist model is that no person or group should be advantaged in such a way that it disadvantages any other person or group. Those on the Right or capitalist side of that view will attempt as far as possible to ensure that the "capital" side of the equation will be advantaged without overly disadvantaging the "labour" side. That is the basis of what you have quoted. Those on the Left will attempt as far as possible to ensure that the "labour" side of the equation will be advantaged without overly disadvantaging the "capital" side. When that paradigm fails you end up with the 2008 banking crisis and the fallout that we see in Trump or Brexit - not a remarkable thought, it has wide currency among economists and political scientists these days. Clearly you are on the capitalist side of the equation, hence the political points you make - but they are political points, not self-evident truths

[Nirish guy]

Not political at all - purely financial and business minded - thus a smart Government should support and promote whatever generates jobs and and income ( for the Government thus the Country) - to enable that Country to then prosper and ultimately pay it's bills, it's really not that difficult a concept to understand.

[frequent]

Not political at all - purely financial and business minded - thus a smart Government should support and promote whatever generates jobs and and income ( for the Government thus the Country) - to enable that Country to then prosper and ultimately pay it's bills, it's really not that difficult a concept to understand.You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. All concepts are political

[Nirish guy]

ha ha - aye ok, again whatever you think. Right, whilst you sit there pontificating I'm off to work, you know to employ people and ensure we have some money to enable me to pay them their wages, so that they can shop and sustain our ecomony, then later I'll make a start on my tax returns perhaps to work out how much the Government are due from me to help keep all the other people in the Country here too - what are YOU doing today out of interest ??

[frequent]

what are YOU doing today out of interest ??Fucking boys and counting my Bitcoin - what else?

[scottish-guy]

I believe it's quite simple how small business can recoup the fees:

Firstly, the real issue is not so much the 20-40p Debit Card fee - it's the 2-5% Credit Card fees, and rising to astronomical fees of up to 10% with Amex and Diners which I why I don't accept them "at all, point blank, go elsewhere Sir".

As has been said, from Jan 13th we can't charge extra for credit cards but I suspect we can discount for cash with impunity. So you simply UP your "list price" and charge that to Credit Card payers and offer a variable discount for cash/cheque/bank transfer

Won't work with the big retailers as they'd soon get found out - but I suspect the rest of us can get away with it.

If not we can just post from jail.

:D

[Nirish guy]

..... you simply UP your "list price" and charge that to Credit Card payers and offer a variable discount for cash/cheque/bank transfer

But that of course DOES then increase your retail price to ( in my case) 93% of my customers and in these days of online competitiveness and "tendering" etc that's a rise that most of them wouldn't stomach, even if you do hint at a further discount for "cash" .........ahhhhh cash......remember those days, when people used to pay you in actual pound notes that depending on the deal and if you were lucky you could stick a load in your wallet sometimes and say nothing if the deal was right......ahhh I miss those halycon days !

* PS for clarity should HMRC be reading this my tax affairs are of course fully compliment with all UK legislation and no "cash" has been buried under the mattress during the writing of this post - more's the bloody pity !!! :)

[scottish-guy]

I think you should be more concerned about the possibilty of the Vice Squad reading your posts

:D

[Moses]

NG, can you charge card payers with any "service payment" like "packing", "documents processing" or something like that?

Here I charge "processing fee" in amount of commission what I pay to bank from each sale (depends on type of card 1.8-3%), in description it isn't linked to card payment.

The most pain in ass here are advanced cash registers - expensive registers what each shop must to have, they are working online and each sale should be immediately reported by such register to Tax service, each check (receipt) has qr-code what can be scanned by client and checked if his transaction been registered to govt Tax service

6361

[Nirish guy]

NG, can you charge card payers with any "service payment" like "packing", "documents processing" or something like that? Here I charge "processing fee" in amount of commission what I pay to bank from each sale (depends on type of card 1.8-3%), in description it isn't linked to card payment.

I do exactly the same here Moses, I simply add the 2.5/3% on the bottom of their invoice ( I do itemise it for clarity) but the spirit ( and letter perhaps) of the new law is that NO, you simply shouldn't be charged any more for using a card than not. I guess that yes you could simply add a fee and call it "something" other than card fee such as packaging as you say etc, however if the Government want to make an example of someone re this law (as they sure as hell will no doubt) then sod's law my company would be the one they pick out to do that with and I dont think any judge would look too favourably on any company who are so blatently trying to circumvent the law. HOWEVER as far as I'm concerned it IS up to me what I charge anyone and if they dont like it they dont have to buy from me - which is easy to say but hard to translate into a fluid business model that's communicatable to staff perhaps without it all falling apart :-(

[frequent]

I do exactly the same here Moses, I simply add the 2.5/3% on the bottom of their invoice ...Thank god. For a moment there I thought you were running a charity or a co-op with all your blether and self-righteousness about employing people and all that. In my business my partners and I are completely red-blooded - we're there to make a profit on top of the decent income we pay ourselves. That's it. That's the whole point of being in business for ourselves. Employing people is merely an ingredient of that, but it's not the reason I get up in the morning. It certainly doesn't make me all dewey-eyed about the political claims of the various lobby groups our organisation supports - and small business associations are just a form of trades union for small business owners, like the BMA is for doctors

[arsenal]

If the banks (UK) income from credit card charges goes down then they'll look elsewhere to make up the shortfall. Charges for all cash machine withdrawals from non card issuing banks would be an obvious one.

[a447]

In Australia they've gone the other way.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-24/commonwealth-bank-and-westpac-axe-atm-fees-for-non-customers/8979250

[Nirish guy]

Thank god. For a moment there I thought you were running a charity or a co-op with all your blether and self-righteousness about employing people and all that.

Ohhhhh so now how’s trying to tell others what they think and mean, you actually couldn’t be farther from the truth ( not uncommon for you I know) as my comment on employees was merely based on our discussion re whether a Government should support the small business sector of their Country’s industrial mix, nothing more. Mind you I make no apology for “giving a shit” about my co workers as that I assure you has no bearing whatsoever on the colour of my blood, whereas you on the other hand seem to suggest differently re your own “means to an end” staff there.