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July 20th, 2006, 06:52
Now to me this is A LOT more interesting than the story about the boring assed lives of the richest Thais:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_new ... ?id=109927 (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=109927)

wowpow
July 20th, 2006, 07:09
I take the liberty of pasting the article knowing that for many members in Thailand it takes an age to open a link when using a proxy.

"Thai children suffer below average IQs

Bangkok (dpa) - The average intelligence quotient (IQ) of Thai teenagers is 87 points, well below the international average, senior health officials acknowledged on Wednesday. "The international average IQ for children is between 90 to 110 points, so people with IQs between 80 to 90 are slow-witted," said Somchai Jakrapan, director general of the government's mental health department.

According to the latest available data, compiled four years ago, the average IQ for Thai children aged between 13 to 18 was 87 points, while it was 80 points for children aged under five. Vachara Phanachet, Thailand's vice minister of health, told a seminar that the main reason Thai children were growing up slow witted was because parents were not stimulating their children's brains enough.

"Children are the future of the country so we need to start developing their potential fully," warned Vachara.

The mental health department last year launched a pilot project in 20 provinces teaching parents how to better stimulate their babies' brains at an early age to turn them into faster-witted adults."

Bangkok Post

I have always thought that a high I.Q. was an over rated asset. Carter is said to have been the most intelligent President of the US last century but far from one of the most successful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_IQ is interesting. The top countries all seem to have Chinese links

PRC Shanghai area 109.4
Hong Kong (PRC) 107
South Korea 106
Japan 105
Taiwan (ROC) 104
Singapore 103

The methodology of obtaining these numbers is fragile, to say the least, and is included in the Wikipedia article.

Would it be too crude to note that, Thai industry and Trade is, and has been for centuries, run mainly by Chinese Thais.

July 20th, 2006, 07:11
Actually, Clinton was the brightest.
That is missing the point. Those IQ levels are near retarded. It is a tragedy for the Thai people. How will they ever compete in the world?

cottmann
July 20th, 2006, 07:17
Interesting - and from where do you come?

Point 1; The article specifically refers to children between 13 and 18 and under five - not to Thais in general. There is no information on the IQ tests used nor the sample size and/or location. Moreover, the data are four years old. The article does not refer to all Thais.

Point 2; The data are four years old, i.e., from 2002, which is when "IQ and the Wealth of Nations," the controversial book by Richard Lynn (Emeritus Professor of Psychology, University of Ulster, Northern Ireland) and Tatu Vanhanen (Emeritus Professor of Political Science, University of Tampere, Tampere, Finland) appeared. The book argued that differences in national income (in the form of per capita gross domestic product) correlate with, and arguably attributes it to, differences in average national IQ.
Lynn later published (2006) "Race Differences in Intelligence," This concludes the average human IQ is presently 90 when compared to a norm of 100 based on UK data, or two thirds of a standard deviation below the UK norm. In that study, the average IQ of Thais is 91.
In comparison, the average IQ of Hong Kong SAR (the highest) is 107, with South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Austria, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, China, New Zealand and the UK all having average IQs 100 or better.
The USA, Australia, Denmark, France and Norway are all at average IQs of 98, behind Poland and Hungary.

I guess that those of us from countries with average IQs higher than 100 can make the same claim about others being dumber than we thought! :geek:

TeePee posted the link while I was composing my response.

July 20th, 2006, 07:21
This is BS. There is CLEARLY a relationship between the brain power combined with the education system of a nation and their ability to compete in the global economy. I really do think there is a CULTURAL problem in Thailand holding back the nation.

cottmann
July 20th, 2006, 07:37
This is BS. There is CLEARLY a relationship between the brain power combined with the education system of a nation and their ability to compete in the global economy. I really do think there is a CULTURAL problem in Thailand holding back the nation.

The clarity of the relationship is not obvious. The WEF and IMD listings of most competitive nations respectively ranked Thailand as the 36th of 117 nations and 32nd of 61 nations most competitive nation in 2005, above countries such as the Czech republic, Croatia, India, and the Russian Federation
http://www.weforum.org/pdf/Gcr/GCR_2003 ... ummary.pdf (http://www.weforum.org/pdf/Gcr/GCR_2003_2004/Executive_Summary.pdf) and http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/05 ... 004125.php (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/05/16/business/business_30004125.php)

Both organizations ranked Finland as the most competitive country - but the average IQ of Finns in Helsinki is only 98.21- http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/NationalIQs.html

wowpow
July 20th, 2006, 07:51
"Thais dumber than we thought ... " quote thaiquila. Not so but OK for a sensationalist headline.

"This is BS. There is CLEARLY a relationship between the brain power combined with the education system of a nation and their ability to compete in the global economy."

Au contraire mon cher ( more elegant than 'this is BS' I think ) Can it be a chicken and egg situation. Countries get wealthy and provide good education for their citizens which makes the I.Q grow? Thailand is, demonstrably, successful in competing in the global economy despite the I.Q. level. It is well known that the Thai education system of learning by rote quashes incentive and original thoughts. Despite Governments saying that they want child centered learning etc it is incredibly difficult to change - who teaches the teachers?

It seems to me that if you want the creation of wealth to be the aim then Thailand has little to worry about. The leading families ensure that their children get superb educations and often University abroad and these provide the industrial leaders plus the imports of Japanese and Western companies. The workforce are all literate - 95%+ and docile making ideal factory fodder.

"I really do think there is a CULTURAL problem in Thailand holding back the nation." and what might that be?

I am often struck by how happy Thais seem to be compared to people in the West. The philosophy of Buddhism must have something to do with that. I wonder who are the wiser the happy or the wealthy - when ignorance is bliss...

July 20th, 2006, 07:55
You hit it.
Thailand is NOT an intellectual country.
The typical type of book read is a COMIC BOOK.
Why don't you just admit it and say you like that there will continue to be a steady supply of not so bright cum filled Isaan boys?

I do want to clarify my position a little.
I am an American and I believe America is pretty much totally fuckked up.
That doesn't mean that another country that isn't the west, such as Thailand, isn't also totally fuckked up.
Just in different ways.
I see so many daft westerners embracing alien cultures as if they were perfect and some kind of paradise. They aren't.

July 20th, 2006, 08:02
... Thaiquila?

July 20th, 2006, 08:03
... Thaiquila?
I thought you had me on ignore.
Well, I have a genius level IQ.

cottmann
July 20th, 2006, 08:39
You hit it.
Thailand is NOT an intellectual country.
The typical type of book read is a COMIC BOOK..

Irrelevant. The typical type of book read in Japan is called MANGA - and the market is enormous - more than $900 million per annum! Moreover, they don't have to be in hard copy - they can be downloaded over "ketai" - cell phones - which increases the size of the market. So what? Japan still scores higher on average IQ than most other countries - including the USA - though it ranks much lower in international competititiveness.



Why don't you just admit it and say you like that there will continue to be a steady supply of not so bright cum filled Isaan boys?

Why assume that Isaan boys are unintelligent? Uneducated, maybe, but that is not the same thing at all.


I do want to clarify my position a little.
I am an American and I believe America is pretty much totally fuckked up.
That doesn't mean that another country that isn't the west, such as Thailand, isn't also totally fuckked up.
Just in different ways.
I see so many daft westerners embracing alien cultures as if they were perfect and some kind of paradise. They aren't.

I am not an American but I will accept as true your comments about the USA. I also accept that many countries are screwed.

I believe I, too, should clarify my position. I think that it is inappropriate to judge all countries by the same measures. I certainly don't believe that Thailand is some kind of Paradise but when I consider the relative industrial histories of, say, the UK and the USA versus some non-western cultures, then I believe that the latter are making a better job of industrialising than the former did. In my opinion, it is inappropriate to compare a country that began industrialising only in the latter half of the last century (as a posting elsewhere on this board showed with regard to exports, etc.) with ones that industrialised a couple of centuries ago. Do a Google search for poverty, etc., in say early 20th Century New York or London and you will be surprised at how bad the conditions were. After all, late-Victorian London alone had an estimated 55,000 hookers - 1 for every 12 adult males! And that is not counting the male hustlers!

Moreover, basing judgements on average IQ can be misleading. There are reports that the average IQ of the USA has risen 24 points since 1918, that the average British IQ has risen 27 points since 1942, and the average Argentine IQ by 22 points since 1964! As countries become more prosperous, average IQ rises.

July 20th, 2006, 09:02
Great then. So Thailand doesn't need to make any changes at all. Everything is great. The best of all possible worlds.

Regarding Japan, I would bet real money that Japanese people read many more REAL BOOKS per capita than Thais. MANY more. I am sure of it.

bing
July 20th, 2006, 09:16
I make no claims about being up to date with all the IQ jargon. I do observe strong family ties and I see the Thai mother wielding a great influence on her sons. Whether this is positive or not, I'm not sure. One of my Thai friends dragged me to the temple across form Day Night Area. We bought a huge amount of flowers and some incense. I was sort of inspired that he wanted to be a good Buddhist young man. He even had a monk splash water on us. He gave the old guy some money I'm sure, and the he wrote a note to the monk, who was sitting like Buddha. I was thinking, well this is fine now the old guy is going to say get out of here as he gave his attenton to the note. Quite the contrary, he looked at me and Don and splashed some water on us and that was that. The audience was over and he got up and walked out. I'm still glad of that experience, but later, my friend, Don was really concerned that it would make his mother happy to know we went to the temple. If he wanted to go to the temple, that would have been fine, but to do it in order to keep is mother happy. My mind says that is not the best motivation for an adult. Heck if we can chalk it up to IQ, that makes it more palatable for me. Never thought of Don as being IQ challenged.

cottmann
July 20th, 2006, 09:32
Great then. So Thailand doesn't need to make any changes at all. Everything is great. The best of all possible worlds.

Regarding Japan, I would bet real money that Japanese people read many more REAL BOOKS per capita than Thais. MANY more. I am sure of it.

Thaiquila, you are arguing by shifting ground! You originally posted "The typical type of book read is a COMIC BOOK." That is the comment to which I responded, commenting that it was irrelevant. The typical type of book read in Japan is also a comic book; whether or not Japanese people read more real books per capita is a corollary question. In fact, Japan has one of the highest per capita book consumption rates in the world, at three times that of the USA. The average Japanese, however, reads 1.5 books per year - excluding textbooks, manga, reference books and dictionaries. I would argue that your comment, however, misses the important point that the average Japanese can afford to buy REAL books - or get them from their local public library. The average Thai cannot.
Perhaps, as an American, you might be interested in the following, in view of your comments about how the USA is all fuckked up:
One-third of high school graduates never read another book for the rest of their lives. Many do not even graduate from high school.
58% of the US adult population never reads another book after high school.
42% of college graduates never read another book.
80% of US families did not buy or read a book last year.
70% of US adults have not been in a bookstore in the last five years.
57% of new books are not read to completion.
--Jerrold Jenkins. http://www.JenkinsGroup.com

July 20th, 2006, 09:45
Don't feed the trolls

Bob
July 20th, 2006, 09:51
Well, I have a genius level IQ.

But your obviously not smart enough not to mention it.....

Excluding yourself (I don't want to get into a personal tit for tat), some of the dumbest people I have ever met belong to mensa (top 5% of tested IQ). They can tell you why it rains but they often don't know enough to come in out of it.

IQ ain't all its cracked up to be. Tested intelligence without culture, class and practicality is nothing more or less than somebody can score high on the given test (and that and a quarter won't buy you a cup of coffee).

cottmann
July 20th, 2006, 10:00
Don't feed the trolls

Sorry!

July 20th, 2006, 10:03
It is true that Americans are not big readers either. A good portion of book sales are via Amazon, so that explains part of the low bookstore attendance. However, you cannot dodge the fact that Thailand is not an intellectual culture.

I agree, a world of geniuses would be a bore, but so would a world of dumbos.

wowpow
July 20th, 2006, 10:49
"Thai kids rank 'below average' on world IQ ranking

The average intelligence quotient (IQ) of Thai children, between 87 and 88 points, remains in the "low average" category when ranked internationally, Vice Minister for Education Watchara Phanchet said yesterday. He was speaking at a seminar on how to boost the intelligence of Thai children and was citing a survey conducted in 2002.

"We have to develop children both intellectually and physically because they are our country's future," Watchara said. More than 800 educators, health professionals, parents and representatives of a network for disadvantaged children attended the seminar held by the Mental Health Department's Rajanukul Institute. The 2002 survey found only 80 per cent of children under five years old had normal visual, muscular and touch-perception development, he said. It also found the average IQ of children between six and 12 was 87 points. The average IQ for children between 13 and 18 was 88, the study found.

In a 2001 survey, children from six to 12 were found to have low levels of patience, discipline, concentration and self-reliance, while those between 13 and 18 had insufficient creativity, analytical ability, conscience, problem-solving skills and emotional control.

Watchara said these problems were the result of parents leaving teachers in charge of their children's development. Teachers are not trained to maximise children's potential at the right age, he said. "We plan to raise Thai children's [average] IQ to at least 100 by 2008," he said.

Mental Health Department chief ML Somchai Chakraphan said those with IQs in the 70 to 79 point range were in a borderline group as an IQ below 70 points signalled mental disability.

In a bid to boost children's IQ, Somchai said his department last year launched a five-year intellectual development plan for children in 20 provinces. "We have passed on useful know-how to nursery and kindergarten teachers," he said.

Somchai said mothers could boost their children's IQ by eating nutritious food during pregnancy and stimulating their children's development at the right age. "Some parents tend to carry their babies in their arms all the time out of concern that they might fall and hurt themselves. "That's not right. If it's time for your babies to start crawling or running, let them do so because it encourages their development," he said."

Bangkok Post

Perhaps this will help this interesting trail from being highjacked to backbiting and the state of America.

Above we see the stated problem and the stated aim. Despite the use of the word 'plan' I don't see mention of any serious plan to alter the status quo. What would do the trick? To aim to raise the IQ of Thai children by 12 points in under 3 years seems awfully ambitious.

quote thaiquila "say you like that there will continue to be a steady supply of not so bright cum filled Isaan boys?" I DO SO SAY! I don't care if they are bright or not as long as they keep coming.

July 20th, 2006, 11:46
While I wouldn't necessarily use the label "dumb" to describe the population, I would aver that the educational system in Thailand is "dummied-down", "watered-down" and in many ways irrevelant to the aspirations of Thai youth and families. The quality of formal education in the Royal Kingdom is tantamount to the moribund formal education systems in Laos, Cambodia and Burma. Interestingly, although the Royal Kingdom of Thailand has had many advanced educational institutions compared to few, if any, in the other peninsular Theravada Buddhist nations, the results of its educational system, while not as bleak, are still stunted.

In many countries of Asia it is common for families to sell farmland and other capital assets, even though this is a high risk venture for subsistence farmers, to advance a child or children through the ranks of the national educational system. This seems less so in Thailand. There are many rural families with substantial capital resources who do not see fit to send their children beyond grade 6 or high school. Significant numbers of children who are not required to leave school to help support the family are allowed to drop-out after third grade.

There are imposing problems for Thailand to make a clean break-through to the ranks of developing Tiger economies, and sustain it, even just considering the news items posted this week on the SWDF:

1) Thailand population growth to approach zero by 2020;
2) Seagate Technology forgoes Thailand for Malaysia due to insufficient Human Resources in Thailand;
3) I.Q. test scores of Thai children and youth.

Even in consideration of the seeming valid arguments of bias in the Standford Binet and other tests of Intelligence Quotient - there are too many supporting indices suggesting that indeed Thailand has a literacy problem. And, by literacy I do not simply mean alphabetization. Critical thinking and analytic ability are crucial to becoming adept in working with systems theory that dominates every modern field of science and technology.

And, please don't suggest that plastic surgery in Thailand is proof of the merit of a national intellect. Most successful Thai surgeons have been trained abroad, at least in terms of specialization.

While I wouldn't want to be injected by the local bar boys with cooking oil as a solution to aging or sagging, I also wouldn't want to undergo modern surgery by a physician who completed pre-medical studies, medical studies, internship and residency all in Thailand.

When I have asked Asians from other countries about their perceptions of Thailand and its cultural emphases, the resounding response is that they find something truly lovely about Thailand in the colors and whimsy of representations, but find there is an absence of general interest in education.

July 20th, 2006, 15:28
When I have asked Asians from other countries about their perceptions of Thailand ...... they usually snigger

wowpow
July 20th, 2006, 16:01
One of the major disincentives for bright young students to begger their families to achieve a good education is that when they have achieved the academic excellence they find the good jobs reserved for the top families and their cronies. One way to have a great job in Thailand currenty was to have been in the same class as the Caretaker Prime Minister. The only route to possibly achieve advancement is the armed forces.

July 20th, 2006, 16:22
When I have asked Asians from other countries about their perceptions of Thailand ...... they usually snigger

If you're talking about Singaporeans and Hong Kongers, they snigger at everyone and everything.

Not many other countries in Asia (with the possible exception of Japan) have much to snigger about...

July 20th, 2006, 16:29
The only route to possibly achieve advancement is the armed forces.

Where do you come up with these stunning pearls of idiocy? The armed forces is ONE route to achievement, but only one among many. If you take a look at the top 100 wealthiest families in Thailand, most of them are self-made business people. Their route to achievement was mostly brains and hard work, peppered with good connections -- just like anywhere else.

July 20th, 2006, 16:33
You forgot to mention the corruption, boygeenyus, the special favours, the concessions that are never granted by a transparent bidding process eg. Thaksin. And then there's drug-running, the source of the Choonhavan family fortune from the immediate post-war period. Funny how army generals dealing with the Burmese never get a mention by you when you're busy wishing another minor drug peddlar off the streets and rejoicing in his death

Dodger
July 20th, 2006, 16:48
After knowing some of the farangs who TEACH in Thailand, I'm surprised the kids can evan read a billboard.

July 20th, 2006, 16:50
Funny how army generals dealing with the Burmese never get a mention by you when you're busy wishing another minor drug peddlar off the streets and rejoicing in his death

Oh, I think they deserve to die in prison too. Good luck, though, putting them there.

As for corruption, well -- successful people everywhere are those who know how to work the system. By no means, however, is it a requirement to participate in it in order to be successful. If you want to tender purchase orders to the governement or military -- oh yeah, you're going to have to get your hands dirty. Just ask those Austrian guys over at Steyr Daimler Puch...

There are other ways to "success" though, which require nothing more than good ideas, some street smarts, hard work, and a willingness to take risks. Just look at the lady who opened those stupid Roti Boy shops. Or the family that started with one "Oishi" restaurant and how has a food empire. Or the neighboord doctor with a successful clinic, or the lady who's an emerald level Amway saleslady, or the clothing designer who started with one boutique and now has a well-known line of clothing under his name.

There are lots and lots of smart people out there who are not involved in drugs, vice, or corruption, are in no way connected to the military, and are nevertheless making successful lives for themselves. One must give them credit where credit is due.

UncleSam
July 20th, 2006, 17:09
"If you take a look at the top 100 wealthiest families in Thailand, most of them are self-made business people. "

Name 20 with self-made businesses - and we all know about Thaksin already.

Maybe your buddy Hominterm can help when he's not posting as Cottmann.

Hehehehehehe..........

July 20th, 2006, 17:38
"If you take a look at the top 100 wealthiest families in Thailand, most of them are self-made business people. "

Name 20 with self-made businesses - and we all know about Thaksin already.

Maybe your buddy Hominterm can help when he's not posting as Cottmann.

Hehehehehehe..........

Must I? Oh, for goodness sakes. Would you be satisfied with ten for the time being? I'm busy trying to make a living at the moment.

Chaleo Yoovidhaya (from upcountry drugstore owner to inventor of "Red Bull")
Paiboon Damrongchaitam (from advertising copywriter to owner of Grammy Entertainment)
Bill Heinecke (from expat son of a VOA employee to owner of the Minor Group)
Kriengkrai Chetchotisak (from record delivery boy to owner of RS Promotion)
Sukri Bodiratnankura (from small-time textile trader to owner of the Thai Melon Group)
Ittiwat Bhiraleus (from radio disc jockey to owner of ONPA, Bakery Music, BMG Entertainment, et al)
Patara Sila-on (from owner of a small ice cream parlor to owner of the S&P restaurant chain)
The Kunanantakul Brothers (from small furniture manufacturer to owners of the Siam Steel Group)
Yongsak Kanathanavanich (from Chinese immigrant shop assistant to owner of the Laemthong Corporation)
Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi (from son of a fried mussel vendor to richest man in Thailand)

All from modest backgrounds, all completely self-made, none military or police officers, all from lower or middle class to among the 100 richest people in Thailand within their own lifetimes, by their own brains and sweat.

Are you happy now, or do you really need another 10?

July 20th, 2006, 17:52
Maybe your buddy Hominterm can help when he's not posting as Cottmann. Hehehehehehe..........Some people do have a vivid imagination. It is however gratifying to know from boygeenyus that there are ten rich people in Thailand who have never paid off a government official. Or does that fall under having a vivid imagination as well?

July 20th, 2006, 18:05
Who said they never paid off a government official? Knowing you, you'd classify anyone who'd ever paid off a traffic cop 100 baht as having "paid off a government official".

The challenge was to name self-made, non-police, non-military, non-royal, non-"connected" men who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps from modest (or worse) backgrounds to join the ranks of the top 100 wealthiest Thais in the space of their own lifetimes, by their own smarts and hard work.

July 20th, 2006, 18:11
Who said they never paid off a government official? Knowing you, you'd classify anyone who'd ever paid off a traffic cop 100 baht as having "paid off a government official"Of course. How would you describe it? We know, of course, that you have never, ever paid off a traffic cop (for 100 baht or any other amount). If I may quote from the dim distant past
I have lived (and driven) in Thailand 15 years and have never paid a single baht to the cops. If I am caught doing something wrong, I accept the ticket and pay the fine at the police station. And I have never been pulled over WITHOUT having done something wrong (I must admit). Why further the system of corruption by involving yourself in it??? I cannot imagine a cop just pulling someone over and asking for money. That would be ludicrous, but what's even more ludicrous is that you would pay!For those who are not "au courant" with boygeenyus' past, he contributed to other Forums as thonglor55
I am actually a year+ shy of 40. My handle somes from Soi Thonglor, Sukhumvit Soi 55, where I used to live

July 20th, 2006, 18:15
Well, you're absolutely right about that. When stopped by the cops for some infraction or another, I always take the ticket and pay at the station. As a matter of fact, I've never, ever had a cop offer to let me pay a "fine" on the spot. I guess it's the motorist who is supposed to make the first move.

Aunty
July 20th, 2006, 18:49
I'm always a bit suspicious of these 'one size fits all' IQ tests/reports that supposedly rank nations and people against a single standard. Given that there are huge and complex variations in culture, wealth, education, etc., among the nations of the world trying to compare them using a test as simple as an IQ test is dodgy at best. What we may be seeing here is nothing more than the respective strengths and weaknesses of the tested nations various education systems. Richer countries have better schools that produce better educated kids who score better on IQ tests, whereas kids from poorer countries are less well educated, less informed and therefore they don't score so well on these tests. The fact that so many East Asian countries dominate the the top spots of the IQ table, and knowing the emphasis that is placed on education in these countries (and the torture the kids go through during their school years) just gives me a little cause to be skeptical about the results.

It may be that these tests are also biased towards kids who have high math abilities (due to an attempt to move the test away from cultural influences and cultural based knowledge to something that is more universal and neutral) again kids in east Asia score the highest on international math tests due to the way they are rote-educated in math.

July 20th, 2006, 22:14
Excuses excuses! Countries like Thailand do not need excuses. Thai workers are on the line competing GLOBALLY like all nations. The standards needed for success are more and more totally GLOBAL!

cottmann
July 21st, 2006, 06:28
Excuses excuses! Countries like Thailand do not need excuses. Thai workers are on the line competing GLOBALLY like all nations. The standards needed for success are more and more totally GLOBAL!

Well, they competed on the global market successfully enough when all the 2006 FIFA World Cup footballs were made in Thailand - in the Molten (Thailand) factory in Sri Racha, Chonburi, to be precise. The factory is a Thai-Japanese joint venture.

To Uncle Sam, Homintern and I may think alike on occasions but we are NOT the same. I believe he lives in Thailand, has a military background and was schooled at Harrow, Cambridge and Sandhurst. I, fortunately, have a different background.

To Doger, who posted: "The Blind creating the Blinder - After knowing some of the farangs who TEACH in Thailand, I'm surprised the kids can evan read a billboard." Those living in glass houses, etc; the correction reads, "...can even read a billboard.

For once, I agree with Thaiquila's sentiments if not his example, however. The standards needed for success are more and more totally, which is why why the formerly American automobile industry is being taken over by Europeans and Japanese, most TVs and other electronic goods sold in the USA are imported, etc, etc., etc. I have to stop there or I will be accused of American-bashing - though apparently it is perfectly acceptable for Americans to bash others, including their hosts.

July 21st, 2006, 08:47
Don't get your point at all. The US gave up being a manufacturing power long ago. It is staking everything on service and knowledge based industries.

cottmann
July 21st, 2006, 10:14
..... It is staking everything on service and knowledge based industries.

It is true that at the moment the USA is running a surplus on services and IPR related industries but if the country has "staked everything" on these then it seems that in the long run the USA is losing:

FOR WIRE TRANSMISSION: 8:30 A.M. EDT, FRIDAY, June 16, 2006
Douglas B. Weinberg: (202) 606-9590 (Data) BEA 06-27
Christopher L. Bach: 606-9545 (Revisions)

U.S. International Transactions: First Quarter 2006
Current Account
The U.S. current-account deficit--the combined balances on trade in goods
and services, income, and net unilateral current transfers--decreased to $208.7
billion (preliminary) in the first quarter of 2006 from $223.1 billion (revised)
in the fourth quarter of 2005. The decrease was more than accounted for by a
decrease in net unilateral current transfers, a decrease in the deficit on
goods, and a shift to a surplus from a deficit on income. These changes were
partly offset by a decrease in the surplus on services.

etc

See http://www.bea.gov/bea/newsrel/transnewsrelease.htm

July 21st, 2006, 10:16
I agree. The US has real economic problems. And so does the world. So what else is new?