Disapointed by Al Jazeera

[BonTong]

Disappointing article well below Al Jazeera's journalistic standards. Actually, its not journalism at all, just a promo piece fundraising for a "faith based" organisation with lots of emotive language. More agenda based than fact based.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/rescuing-boys-thailand-northern-sex-trade-171210184544070.html

[Brad the Impala]

Thanks for posting the link. Of it's type it didn't seem too sensationalised, and it sounds like Urban Light does a worthy job. I didn't notice a faith angle in the article.

[BonTong]

It's more what the article doesn't say than what it does. Interestingly, Urban Life have got very coy about their religious motives which were clearly stated a year or two back.

Yes, they do some good work. But they provide a depiction of what goes on in Chiang Mai that is a long way from the truth. Not that the truth is nice by any means and the internet has changed the landscape considerably. Emotive phrase like "Western men sitting in bars with 14-year-old boys on their laps" were definitely true 20 years ago, Perhaps occasionally true 10 years ago and virtually non existent now.

Demonizing western gay men plays to the Christian fundamentalist financial backers in the US.

[a447]

I've spent many fun nights in Adams Apple over the years and have never encountered guys fitting the description in the article.

And I have certainly never seen any young guys of the age mentioned anywhere in Chiang Mai.

I was under the impression that the trafficking of guys related to the construction industry, not the sex industry.

I agree with Bon Tong - it probably reflects the situation in CM many years ago.

[sglad]

I've spent many fun nights in Adams Apple over the years and have never encountered guys fitting the description in the article.

And I have certainly never seen any young guys of the age mentioned anywhere in Chiang Mai.


Do the guys who work at Adam's Apple or any of the other Chiang Mai go go bars have ID cards? If not, how does a customer ascertain their ages? What about the street boys who freelance at the bars in the night bazaar area? Do they have ID?

[sglad]

It's more what the article doesn't say than what it does. Interestingly, Urban Life have got very coy about their religious motives which were clearly stated a year or two back.

Yes, they do some good work. But they provide a depiction of what goes on in Chiang Mai that is a long way from the truth. Not that the truth is nice by any means and the internet has changed the landscape considerably. Emotive phrase like "Western men sitting in bars with 14-year-old boys on their laps" were definitely true 20 years ago, Perhaps occasionally true 10 years ago and virtually non existent now.

Demonizing western gay men plays to the Christian fundamentalist financial backers in the US.

Why don't you share this with Aljazeera? If what you're saying is true than readers have a right to the bigger picture although I don't see anything wrong with any organisation, faith-based or not, filling up a void in terms of providing food, shelter and basic education to these boys. What has the secular Thai state done to help them? What about the gay farang who patronise these bars and all their talk of loving, caring and respecting these boys? How have they got together to provide concrete support to these hill-tribe and Shan boys, most of whom have few rights and are severely discriminated against in Thai society? I'm sure Aljazeera would be interested to hear of these home-grown efforts to provide assistance to these boys.

[joe552]

I've only been to Chiang Mai once, so my experience is limited. On first reading, it seems like a worthwhile project, helping boys to escape prostitution. I didn't see the Christian fundamentalist connection, though I know it exists in Thailand. But if some of these boys get out of the game and find a real life, surely that's a good thing? I have little doubt that 12 and 14 year old boys and girls are still being abused in most major cities in Thailand. This is one project trying to help.

Bontong, maybe you can give a bit more background on the organisation?

[a447]

Do the guys who work at Adam's Apple or any of the other Chiang Mai go go bars have ID cards? If not, how does a customer ascertain their ages? What about the street boys who freelance at the bars in the night bazaar area? Do they have ID?

My taste is for older guys, and I've only ever offed then from AA.

And I've never seen a guy there who looks like he'd need to produce an ID card at a hotel. They are all older masculine types.

I have no idea about the street boys in the bazaar as I don't go looking for company there.

[joe552]

a447.my taste is for younger (legal) guys. I've never checked an ID. By that stage of the night, I wouldn't know what I'm supposed to be looking for. I've admitted before I offed a boy from a reputable bar who turned out to be 17. He only worked there one night. This was Pattaya. My experience of Chiang Mai was that it seemed much more vanilla (as latin might say).

A genuine question. When you take a boy back to your room, and he gives in his ID, would the receptionist check the age? And if they thought the boy was underage, allow you to go to your room, but call the cops?

[Up2U]

"Bontong, maybe you can give a bit more background on the organisation?"......

https://www.urban-light.org

[latintopxxx]

My impression is that the situation in Thailand is under control in that the bars catering to this sort of thing have clearly moved underground as they are no longer operating with impunity.
I recall a bar in sunnee, had to go up a flight of stairs, where clearly the scantily clad hosts were underaged. This particular bar closed down some time ago. So if this sort of thing exists it is no longer out in the open.
Some hotels in Thailand even have signs at reception warning guests that they will report this sort of thing, so clearly the permissive attitude that once existed has changed.
Maybe this organization can try to help the situation in Brazil where this sort of thing is sadly rampant.

[arsenal]

The bar was called Tom Yum. It was owned by some hairy Danish arsehole with all the charm of a lump of mouldy bacon. However, I don't recall thinking the boys were not legal.

[joe552]

"Bontong, maybe you can give a bit more background on the organisation?"......

https://www.urban-light.org

Thanks for the link Up2U. I haven't read it all, but appreciate you sharing it.

[joe552]

I have no doubt that if I wanted a 14 year old boy in Pattaya (which I don't, I hasten to add) it wouldn't take much to find one. This is based purely on talking to local guys who've been around the block a time or two.

[frequent]

The bar was called Tom Yum. It was owned by some hairy Danish arsehole with all the charm of a lump of mouldy bacon. However, I don't recall thinking the boys were not legal.Danish bacon - my favourite

I have no doubt that if I wanted a 14 year old boy in Pattaya (which I don't, I hasten to add) it wouldn't take much to find one. This is based purely on talking to local guys who've been around the block a time or two.Same with "illegal" drugs

[BonTong]

"Bontong, maybe you can give a bit more background on the organisation?"......

https://www.urban-light.org

Well, the website says a lot, but not everything. A couple of years ago their website was much more forthright in proclaiming themselves as a "faith based" organisation. As was their publicity in the media. However, that has now all disappeared from their website. Begs the question of why are they hiding their affiliations, and more importantly, what are the hidden agendas?

They did a study on "Sexually Exploited Young Males in Chiang Mai" (http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/results-of-study-on-sexually-exploited-young-males-in-chiang-mai-presented/) about three years ago and have more recently released a full report: Boys for Baht (https://issuu.com/urbanlight/docs/boys_are_baht_-_research_study). This was together with Love146 another organisation which, at the time was very open about their "faith based" work. Now they say" Though the co-founders of Love146 are inspired by Christian faith, a system of faith is not required in the work of Love146"

Their study makes interesting reading but rather than real research it's more like a fishing effort to find facts to back their assertions. The fact the subject of drugs is hardly mentioned shows their very limited depth understanding of realities on the ground (just two or three paragraphs in 58 pages). They interviewed only a small number of sex workers of which only 6 admitted to ever having used drugs. Yeah, right, and you believe that? Most interestingly they state on page 37 "none of the respondents in the current study were explicitly forced into the sex industry". So where do all these hyped "trafficking" claims come from (variations of the word traffic are used 13 times on the article's web page)? And why do they need "rescuing" when even their own research provides zero evidence to back up their claims?

I don't have an issue with UrbanLight as such, they clearly have some people who care and do some good work. And I'm certain there is a need for their services but there is quite a difference between providing help, assistance, guidance or many other forms of beneficial assistance to these "boys" to help them improve their lives, and rescuing people from trafficking which is the emotive claims made in the article. One then becomes suspicious of the real motives.

[BonTong]

Why don't you share this with Aljazeera? If what you're saying is true than readers have a right to the bigger picture although I don't see anything wrong with any organisation, faith-based or not, filling up a void in terms of providing food, shelter and basic education to these boys. What has the secular Thai state done to help them? What about the gay farang who patronise these bars and all their talk of loving, caring and respecting these boys? How have they got together to provide concrete support to these hill-tribe and Shan boys, most of whom have few rights and are severely discriminated against in Thai society? I'm sure Aljazeera would be interested to hear of these home-grown efforts to provide assistance to these boys.

Indeed, not disputing at all that Urban Light fill a need and provide some much needed services and should be applauded for that. Yes,farangs talk a lot but organizing group action is hard, though I hear of quite a few who are involved with support projects for schools and orphanages, but this is mainly in the hill tribe villages rather than in the city. I feel Urban Light missed a trick, they could have garnered a lot of support if they had reached out to the farang gay community in Chiang Mai. The number of gay farangs here who are actually interested in children is very small. Many of the rest would be quite sympathetic with their objectives and willing to provide support in different ways if the organization's activities were inclusive. Instead, their perceived adversarial approach is a wasted opportunity.

If Al Jazeera were serious about the subject a good piece of investigative journalism could produce some very beneficial results. I doubt it will ever happen as it would intrude into areas that are off limits in Thailand.

One irony is that many of the beneficiaries of Urban Light's "faith based" services are Akha tribes people. The same Akha whose culture and way of life christian missionaries did so much to destroy, and are the cause of many problems facing the Akha today. If you don't believe me, google is your friend. Here is a taster: The Missionary Seige of the Akha (http://www.akha.org/content/missiondocuments/missionaryseige.html)

[latintopxxx]

suspect urban life knows a hell of a lot more than we do...

[a447]

The bar was called Tom Yum. It was owned by some hairy Danish arsehole with all the charm of a lump of mouldy bacon. However, I don't recall thinking the boys were not legal.

I visited that bar once. I was quickly out the door.

I remember writing a report about it here.

And BTW, bringing the "Sexually Exploited Young Males in Chiang Mai" into the church would be akin to feeding them to the lions, I would have thought.

[latintopxxx]

I already had a beer by the time i realised what was going on. I finished it and left within 5 min but must admit an inner voice was screaming at me to leave...just leave.
And as far as churches are concerned...u do realise that even the much villified Catholic Church does a lot of good amongst the poor and needy. Afterall I was taught by nuns and brothers and priests ..and unlike Madonna was never touched....sigh.

[scottish-guy]

What happened to the "no discussion of underage sex" rule?

Clearly less important than the swathe of "don't criticise the management" regulations.

Not that I'm in favour of censorship - I'm just against hypocrisy

[arsenal]

:yahoo_mini:

[latintopxxx]

scotty....for a nation that bites the hand that feeds it ever so generously you should be the last one throwing out hypocrisy accusations...

[scottish-guy]

No hypocrisy from me - although I profoundly disagree with your characterisation of the current UK arrangements I'm all for walking away from them.

If it's hypocrisy you want - cast your eyes up the thread - you won't have to look far

[arsenal]

:yahoo_mini: