Sad News

[Monty-old]

Mark the former owner of Time Bar Sunee Plaza.
Died while in custody on Sunday !6th July in Pattaya.
R.I.P.

What was he doing in "custody"?

DELETED

Re Mark's demise whilst in custody, it was alleged he was involved in the drug scene and was being held on remand awaiting a court appearance. L.

Ah...a dead drug dealer. So what's the "sad" part?

[tony279760-old]

For those of you that don't remember, this is how the BBC reported Mark's situation on December 27 last:

Briton facing Thai death sentence
A 47-year-old man from Birmingham is facing a death sentence in Thailand after being charged with trafficking cocaine in the resort of Pattaya.
Mark Freely, a former bar owner in Pattaya, was charged with trafficking a kilo of cocaine and was refused bail.
Four other Britons were remanded on bail on suspicion of using cocaine.
Jack Dean, 40, Lee Spence, 37, Nicholas Millburn, 26, and Nicola Allan, 34, from London are said to have tested positive for drugs.
The arrests were made when police raided Mr Freely's apartment in Pattaya - 100 miles east of Bangkok - on Saturday after being tipped off by a Thai friend of his and found small amounts of cocaine.
Mr Freely was later led to a safety deposit box at an office in Bokaew Road, Pattaya, where police said they discovered 60 bags of cocaine.
If convicted Freely will face the death sentence, however the sentence has always been reduced to life in the case of all westerners arrested on serious drugs charges in Thailand.
A British Embassy official said Mr Freely had been visited and offered advice.

Ah...a dead drug dealer. So what's the "sad" part?I see your conversion to Siamism is complete - no presumption of innocence

[UncleSam]

Does anyone know what was the cause of death ?

One kilo of cocaine is a LOT of coke...do you have any idea what the street value would be? There are a lot cheaper ways to frame someone, if that's your intention. I'll stick with my guilty assumption, until someone offers up some gossip to the contrary.

Anyway, guily or not, he was going to the monkey house for life. He's lucky to have died only six months into his ordeal.

... I can agree. Guilty or innocent
he was going to the monkey house for life. He's lucky to have died only six months into his ordeal.

[cottmann]

One kilo of cocaine is a LOT of coke...do you have any idea what the street value would be? ....

Googling suggests in the USA $50,000 and up. In Thailand....?

One kilo of cocaine is a LOT of coke...do you have any idea what the street value would be? ....

Googling suggests in the USA $50,000 and up. In Thailand....?No, but I do wonder at the dull parties to which boygeenyus must go

Boygeenyus: In most parts of the civilised World one is presumed innocent until proven guilty irrespective of the overwhelming evidence of guilt. Only a recognised Court may declare guilt or innocence after all the evidence has been presented and your inability to recognise that fact saddens this reader/writer. Maybe you are French? I believe and am sure will be corrected if wrong, under French Law, one is guilty until proven otherwise! May Mark rest in peace and God bless his family.

Absolutely right. He had the right to his day in court. I still believe, though -- based on what I've read -- that he was probably guilty. If I'm wrong, well sorry.

[cottmann]

Boygeenyus: In most parts of the civilised World one is presumed innocent until proven guilty irrespective of the overwhelming evidence of guilt.

Not true. It is in SOME parts, and mostly those with an English Common Law inheritance. Even then, presumption of innocence is not always the norm, as the instances of "Driving While Black" in the USA suggest. I guess it largely depends on what one means by "civilized." After all, most "civilized" countries do not have the death penalty any longer.


Only a recognised Court may declare guilt or innocence after all the evidence has been presented and your inability to recognise that fact saddens this reader/writer.

Perhaps that is because you are assuming that the Thai legal system is the same as that to which you are used? The Thai legal system is actually quite complex. Penal law is Italian, Indian, French, and Japanese inspired; the Civil Law greatly influenced by French, German, and Swiss law; the Commercial Law is primarily British; the Law of Evidence is founded on an English model; the Civil and Criminal Procedure Codes are taken from their English and French counterparts; while the courts are organized along the lines of French courts of law. All of these Codes have been also influenced by Thai customs and heritage of the period in which they were written.


Maybe you are French? I believe he is American.


I believe and am sure will be corrected if wrong, under French Law, one is guilty until proven otherwise! ......
It is commonly believed that this is the case - but I believe that it is wrong. French penal law was written in the aftermath of the French Revolution, where the "Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen" had declared that suspects were presumed to be innocent until they had been declared to be guilty by a court of law. It draws heavily on Roman law, by the way. French law may be criticized for de facto presumption of guilt but legal proceedings certainly do not have de jure presumption of guilt. The preliminary article of the Code of Criminal Procedure says "any suspected or prosecuted person is presumed to be innocent until his guilt has been established". The jurors' oath reiterates this assertion.

In many civil law countries, the terms used are "guilty" and "not guilty"　－not "innocent" since that carries a moral charge separate from the phrase "not guilty."

Lee Harvey Oswald was only charged with the crime of assassinating JFK. He was actually denied his Constitutional rights to a fair trial when Jack Ruby murdered him. As such he was never convicted of the crime

BUT

How many people do you know that still answer Lee Harvey Oswald when asked who killed Kennedy?



In most parts of the civilised World one is presumed innocent until proven guilty irrespective of the overwhelming evidence of guilt. Only a recognised Court may declare guilt or innocence after all the evidence has been presented

We are talking of the civilised world, aren't we?

[cottmann]

Lee Harvey Oswald was only charged with the crime of assassinating JFK. He was actually denied his Constitutional rights to a fair trial when Jack Ruby murdered him. As such he was never convicted of the crime

BUT

How many people do you know that still answer Lee Harvey Oswald when asked who killed Kennedy? .....

Perhaps because the special commission headed by Chief Justice Earl Warren decided in 1964 that Oswald, acting alone, had shot and killed the president? Although, in Loonan's terms, only a recognised Court may declare guilt or innocence after all the evidence has been presented, this was never done in Oswald's case. It is very difficult for the dead to defend themselves in court - in person.

It is very difficult for the dead to defend themselves in court - in person.Even better - you cannot be sued for libelling the dead

[Bob]

It's amazing how common folklore has altered/bastardized the legal concept of the presumption of innocence. It's an evidentiary standard which, in the US, is consitutionally compelled to apply in criminal trials only. It's a standard juries are required (and sworn) to follow and there is no legal rationale that anyone else is required to presume anything.

As concerns Lee Harvey Olswald, anyone who has read the Warren Report and every other semi-intelligent history of the evidence available could only reasonably conclude that Oswald assassinated Kennedy. [Yes, I know there are a few books claiming he didn't but, then again, there are many more books where the author claimed he/she was abducted by aliens....]

Finding somebody guilty is a legal term meaning that a judge or jury, based on what they heard, concluded beyond all reasonable doubt (but not all doubt) that the person commited the act(s) which compose the crime. Finding somebody "not guilty" means the person either didn't do it or the judge/jury doesn't think it was proven by the prosecutor beyond a reasonable doubt. The system, although hardly perfect (given it's man made), is designed to favor the release of a guilty person before finding an innocent person erroneously guilty. Mistakes do occur but it's rather rare.

For example, OJ was found "not guilty" but that hardly means he didn't murder those two people Since he's not entitled to any presumption from me, I consider him lucky but hardly innocent.

"Not proven" - a vey useful verdict

[cottmann]

It's amazing how common folklore has altered/bastardized the legal concept of the presumption of innocence. It's an evidentiary standard which, in the US, is consitutionally compelled to apply in criminal trials only.

I do not believe that it is a constitutionally compelled evidentiary standard in the USA as the Constitution of the United States does not cite it explicitly. Courts have determined that presumption of innocence is widely held to follow from various amendments, the 6th amendment in particular. It is possible that some state constitutions include this provision, of course.

[Bob]

Not to get into a long discussion of this but (1) the constitution consists of the original document and its amendments and (2) the Surpreme Court has held since 1895 that the constitution compels its use.
Although not part of the issue here, the US didn't invent the term (it can be traced back to many ancient civilizations) but has it's own set of rules about the notion.



Edit: I'd alter the bad grammar but then the following post by Hom wouldn't be funny..... :clown:

... ruled on whether it is constitutional to use "it's" when the correct usage is "its"?
but has it's own set of rules about the notion

... ruled on whether it is constitutional to use "it's" when the correct usage is "its"?
but has it's own set of rules about the notion

I understand its something their working on...

LOL

[cottmann]

Not to get into a long discussion of this but (1) the constitution consists of the original document and its amendments and (2) the Surpreme Court has held since 1895 that the constitution compels its use.
Although not part of the issue here, the US didn't invent the term (it can be traced back to many ancient civilizations) but has it's own set of rules about the notion.

I understand that what the US Supreme Court technically assumes is an assumption of innocence (Taylor v. Kentucky, 436 U.S. 478, 98 S. Ct. 1930, 56 L. Ed. 2d 468 [1978]).

That the US and its Supreme Court have their own set of rules about assumption of innocence has been amply demonstrated recently, of course.

Recognized infringements of the presumption/assumption of innocence include but are not limited to situations:
*Where suspects are held on long periods on remand, while inquiries proceed. Such long imprisonment constitutes, in practice, a hardship and a punishment for the suspect, even though he or she has not yet been sentenced.
*Where courts may prefer the testimonies of persons of certain class, status, ethnicity, gender, or political standing over those of others, regardless of actual circumstances.

There is, of course, a difference between a legal situation and an ethical one.

Bla, bla, bla.

The guy was caught with over a kilo of coke, and died while in jail awaiting a certain life sentence.

One more piece of shit off the streets.

[UncleSam]

Well said, coming as it does from one more piece of shit on the board.

Are you that stupid, or do you just like to see peoples' reaction to shitful behavior.

You again, eh? Wasn't our recent correspondence on wealthy Thais enough to shame you back under the Hydra rock from which you crawled?

[UncleSam]

you'd have first place.

Who but a totally ignorant boor would even think of responding to a death notice with the kind of crap you posted. Have you no common decency to let the dead rest in peace ?

You may mourn the death of a drug dealer if you wish, no one is stopping you. When you're finished, you can start sniveling over the demise of al-Zarqawi, Pablo Escobar, and Jeffrey Dahmer.

So, you've been a member of this board a grand total of one week now. How are you enjoying yourself?

how these bleeding hearts come out in droves when someone dies, no matter how despicable the deceased may have been. "Have you no compassion for the dead?", they cry. But where is their loving compassion for the lives ruined by the kilos of coke that would have been released into the general population had there been no arrest? No, our compassionate crusaders would have been oblivious to the repercussions of misery unleashed and content in their 'isn't this a happy life?' mindset, but ready to pounch on the next "politically incorrect' boygeenyus condemnation of a dead drug dealer.

I am a compassionate person, I really am. I am even marginally compassionate towards pedophiles (which will no doubt comforts many on this board). But compassionate towards drug dealers who destroy the lives of thousands? No way. I too say good riddance.

Sad news? No. I am waiting with baited breath for the grizzly details of his untimely, violent, and gruesome demise. We all seek justice, don't we?

Cheers.

A voice of reason. Thank you. Tens of thousands of people die every day. We don't have to waste our time mourning for the evil-doers among them.

[Dodger]

It's sad when people degrade each other...regardless if they're alive or dead. It's a sign that they too are somehow dieing, and I don't understand why.

A young boy named David Crosby got snatched for selling coke on the streets of LA (never publicized), and later teamed up with his friend (and ex-coke addict) Paul Kantner (Jefferson Airplane) to write the words to this song:

If you smile at me you know I will understand
Cause that is something everybody everywhere does
In the same language

I can see by your coat my friend that you're from the other side
There's just one thing I got to know
Can you tell me please who won

You must try some of my purple berries
I been eating them for six or seven weeks now
Haven't got sick once
Probably keep us both alive

Wooden ships on the water very free and easy
Easy you know the way it's supposed to be
Silver people on the shoreline leave us be
Very free and easy

Sail away where the mornin sun goes high
Sail away where the wind blows sweet and young birds fly
Take a sister by her hand
Lead her away from this barren land

Horror grips us as we watch you die
All we can do is echo your anguished cry and
Stare as all your human feelings die
We are leaving you don't need us

Sailing ships on the water very free and easy
Easy you know the way it's supposed to be
Silver people on the shoreline leave us be
Very free...and gone

[UncleSam]

Hopefully yes, but most of us expect a trial to be held to get it.

People who see things in such black and white tones usually are short on gray matter. Just read the absurd comments of Boy Green Ass in this thread and you'll see what I mean.

The richest billionaire in Thailand sells booze as a living, a drug which is as deadly and destructive as any other, especially when it results in alcoholism. Is he evil ? Is that Justice ?

It's sad when people degrade each other...regardless if they're alive or dead. It's a sign that they too are somehow dieing, and I don't understand why.

A young boy named David Crosby got snatched for selling coke on the streets of LA (never publicized), and later teamed up with his friend (and ex-coke addict) Paul Kantner (Jefferson Airplane) to write the words to this song:

If you smile at me you know I will understand
Cause that is something everybody everywhere does
In the same language

I can see by your coat my friend that you're from the other side
There's just one thing I got to know
Can you tell me please who won

You must try some of my purple berries
I been eating them for six or seven weeks now
Haven't got sick once
Probably keep us both alive

Wooden ships on the water very free and easy
Easy you know the way it's supposed to be
Silver people on the shoreline leave us be
Very free and easy

Sail away where the mornin sun goes high
Sail away where the wind blows sweet and young birds fly
Take a sister by her hand
Lead her away from this barren land

Horror grips us as we watch you die
All we can do is echo your anguished cry and
Stare as all your human feelings die
We are leaving you don't need us

Sailing ships on the water very free and easy
Easy you know the way it's supposed to be
Silver people on the shoreline leave us be
Very free...and gone



What a groovy sentiment, Captain Moonbeam! Why don't we all just have a big ol' group hug, and invite the world's serial killers, rapists, terrorists, and drug dealers to join! Love is the word, brother!

"One kilo of cocaine is a LOT of coke...do you have any idea what the street value would be? ...."

a drug enjoyed ( and abused ) by countless milions of people in the west yet for some bizarre reason laws are still made and ( selectively) used against people who do something to their own bodies.

You must be fabulously free of any human vices boygenuis..how do you manage it ??

It is indeed a strange country Thailand..drugs pour out from the Golden Triangle undoubtedly with the assistance of those in high places and a few souls are busted every now and then to make the books look good.

Besides wasn't all this going to end within 3 months ..3 years ago when Thaksin announced his own "war on drugs" and all those thousands of drug dealers were accidently shot by the police ?

Nice try, but any idiot knows that a kilo of coke is hundreds of times more than what could possibly be intended for personal use.

[Dodger]

What a groovy sentiment, Captain Moonbeam! Why don't we all just have a big ol' group hug, and invite the world's serial killers, rapists, terrorists, and drug dealers to join! Love is the word, brother!

I guess I follow your drift Boygeenyus, but frankly, I just finished smoking a doobie and don't want to blow my high with your negativity.

You would have been a lot of fun at Woodstock. I can see it now...a million strong..all in harmony, until one very righteous sounding guy leaps on the stage, grabs the mic from Jimmy and starts ranting on about all the bad people in the universe that deserve to be cast in the flames of Hell. Was that really you Boygeenyus??? And all this time I thought it was just some unlucky soul who got ahold of that bad micro dot that was floating around.

Loosen up BG. Look at that water filling half the glass. Jog a little, or maybe try easing off the carbs.

mai pen rai

Nice try, but any idiot knows that a kilo of coke is hundreds of times more than what could possibly be intended for personal use.

I often find my self having an opposite opinion on a lot of subjects than you boygeenyus but I do agree with all your views on the drugs trade and those that are dealers.

Putting forward the 'for personal use' argument does seems ludicrous and I can only assume that the writers have not seen first hand the misery that these dealers indirectly inflict on their customers and their families.

[Impulse]

boygeenyus,your barrowing a phrase from bush there.Your coming across as a very angry man.I can picture you at the salem witch hunts with your hand holding the bible in one hand and you pointing the guilty finger at those poor inocent people who were hanged just because they were different or didnt conform to the norm back then.

... Smiles, in respect of certain members of this board it is advisable to not feed the trolls, especially the stringem' up brigade.

all liquor manufacturers distributors and sellers, all tobacco growers , shippers and small store owners should be strung up. ( including members of all government agencies who assist and benefit, including us taxpayers who receive tax dividends from the taxes paid on these killer drugs.)

In my lifetime ( very very long) I've had friends die from accidents , heart attacks, murder, suicide, drug overdoses , Aids , lung cancer caused by ciggies and those who have caused the most damage to their friends and families have been the alcoholics.

I would say the most damaging drug of all is alcohol because the ability of those who over-indulge to skillfully hide the fact and wreak chaos upon the lives of those around them. ( chronic gamblers are similar). I've known whole families ( included amongst my closest) and busines firends to have their lives nearly destroyed by the results of alcoholism.

Indeed we the taxpayer fork out huge sums in taxes to support the terrible havoc caused by alcohol in the west..from car accidents etc etc ..the medical expenses etc while we waste billions in taxes on law enforcement ( fighting a constantly losing battle) and courts and jails overflowing with "victimless" so-called criminals who have indulged in drugs brought to them by dealers who are after all, just enterprising folk taking an awful risk if they are not part of the huge criminal gangs that control the trade with government help.

Rejoice if makes you feel better that an alleged dealer has died..it's your Karma.

all liquor manufacturers distributors and sellers, all tobacco growers , shippers and small store owners should be strung up. ( including members of all government agencies who assist and benefit, including us taxpayers who receive tax dividends from the taxes paid on these killer drugs.)

In my lifetime ( very very long) I've had friends die from accidents , heart attacks, murder, suicide, drug overdoses , Aids , lung cancer caused by ciggies and those who have caused the most damage to their friends and families have been the alcoholics.

I would say the most damaging drug of all is alcohol because the ability of those who over-indulge to skillfully hide the fact and wreak chaos upon the lives of those around them. ( chronic gamblers are similar). I've known whole families ( included amongst my closest) and busines firends to have their lives nearly destroyed by the results of alcoholism.

Indeed we the taxpayer fork out huge sums in taxes to support the terrible havoc caused by alcohol in the west..from car accidents etc etc ..the medical expenses etc while we waste billions in taxes on law enforcement ( fighting a constantly losing battle) and courts and jails overflowing with "victimless" so-called criminals who have indulged in drugs brought to them by dealers who are after all, just enterprising folk taking an awful risk if they are not part of the huge criminal gangs that control the trade with government help.

Rejoice if makes you feel better that an alleged dealer has died..it's your Karma.

Sorry, dear, but I have nothing more to say to someone who is so dim that they cannot appreciate the difference between soft drugs (tobacco, alcohol, caffeine) and hard ones (cocaine, heroine, morphine, crystal meth).

I don't think cocaine is that bad. If it is GOOD cocaine.
It is a traditional South American drug and making a strong comeback in Bolivia. Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it, no joke.
Haven't you ever tried it? I tried it about five times, and twice during sex. Unforgettable.

change your name to boynaive..genuis you ain't.

As any competent pharmacologist could tell boygeenyus, the only difference between nicotine and heroin is that nicotine is more addictive - or perhaps that particular reality is one boygeenyus doesn't especially want to acknowledge?

[UncleSam]

Would someone stick a fork in him and see if he's soft or hard ?

hahahahaha...........

[Surfcrest]

I don't think cocaine is that bad. If it is GOOD cocaine.
It is a traditional South American drug and making a strong comeback in Bolivia. Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it, no joke.
Haven't you ever tried it? I tried it about five times, and twice during sex. Unforgettable.

Now there's a big stinking pile of B.S.

[Dodger]

I put a little dab on my friends cock once and it ended up numbing the whole inside of my mouth.

The next time I visited the dentist I gave my friend another blow job and it eased the pain in the dentists chair considerably. Actually, I have a very cute dentist and often wondered if he'd like to try this method.

I suspect that Hollinghurst's The Line of Beauty hasn't yet reached boygeenyus' bookshelf

I don't think cocaine is that bad. If it is GOOD cocaine.
It is a traditional South American drug and making a strong comeback in Bolivia. Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it, no joke.
Haven't you ever tried it? I tried it about five times, and twice during sex. Unforgettable.

Now there's a big stinking pile of B.S.
Actually, no it is NOT B.S. What part do you contest?

http://cocaine.org/coca-cola/cocacola-advert.gif

http://www.atforum.com/SiteRoot/images/GIFS/summer2002cocaine.gif

http://www.rustyzipper.com/pics/31541L.jpg

[Surfcrest]

1) I don't think cocaine is that bad. wrong
2) If it is GOOD cocaine. wrong - no such thing as good cocaine
3) It is a traditional South American drug and making a strong comeback in Bolivia. wrong
Maybe you are referring to the practise of chewing Coca leaves.
4) Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it, no joke. And dinosaurs one walked the planet
5) I tried it about five times, and twice during sex. Unforgettable. Cocaine makes your dick shrink
that's something most would want to forget

Surfcrest

Would someone stick a fork in him and see if he's soft or hard ?

hahahahaha...........

Says the man who thought that only mililtary officers and drug dealers got rich in Thailand.

Enjoying your second week on the board?

1) I don't think cocaine is that bad. wrong
Your opinion. If you had ever tried good cocaine, you would see there is great pleasure in it.

2) If it is GOOD cocaine. wrong - no such thing as good cocaine
Again, not true. By good, I mean pure, not cut with garbage.

3) It is a traditional South American drug and making a strong comeback in Bolivia. wrong
Maybe you are referring to the practise of chewing Coca leaves.
Of course I am. Cocaine is made from coca leaves.

4) Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it, no joke. And dinosaurs one walked the planet
You are so wrong. It did indeed. Until 1929.
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp

5) I tried it about five times, and twice during sex. Unforgettable. Cocaine makes your dick shrink
that's something most would want to forget
Not my dick. Coke isn't speed, dear. And yes, I remember every detail and sensation of one experience in particular in a slum Baltimore row house.

Surfcrest

[Impulse]

I did cocaine very heavily for almost two years.I regret it now very much.I was always against drugs until my good friend insisted I try it.The first time it did nothing,but the second time it was like nothing I had ever experienced.It was a wonderful feeling and I couldnt get enough of it.I paid for my stuff by selling mostly to my friends,and i had a lot of friends when I had coke.I made a good amount of money selling it until my use increased.The sex was incredible and I think that also increased the drug use.Sex was never better in my life when I was doing blow,except maybe for my first month on androgel(testosterone). Luckily I stopped on my own after my buddy got caught buying a half from an undercover cop.I realized it was desytroying my body so I stopped with a few slip ups.Havnt done it in about 8 years.I think it affected my memory somewhat and who knows what it did to my liver but now I limit myself to 2 drinks in any given day.

Yes, of course doing alot of any drug is dangerous. There are serious health problems with using cocaine, you can get a heart attack and also hepatitis due to impure formulation. If it was legal and regulated, there would be no impurity issues. Another reason to legalize most drugs. I only tried it casually, and yes, I know it is addictive, and can see how easy that would be to happen. However, the power of the cocaine experience is undeniable, including the sex. I am very happy I had my few experiences with it. No regrets at all.

[Smiles]

" ... Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it, no joke. And dinosaurs one walked the planet ... "
Thaiquila, I thought you said you had a high IQ?

If you'd think about it for half a second I think you might realize that Surfcrest was ~ with the 'dinosaur' comment above ~ trying to suggest that alluding to the fact that Coco Cola once in the past actually had cocaine in it was an irrelevancy ( basically saying "what's that got to do with the argument?" ), not an inaccuracy of fact (as you took the point it to be).

I think you will find that just about every member of this Board is already aware that Coke (the drink) contained Cocaine (the heinous drug) at one time way back when.

God you're thick.

Cheers ....


PS ... it's not the greatest policy to go around mentioning the fact that one's a Mensa Maurauder. Opens one up to too much ridicule when caught out.

[Impulse]

HHmmmm,I never knew that,I know that sharing dollar bills can spread hep c,just a tiny bit of blood with hep c is very cantagious.Im glad to have tested negative for that,Im wondering about my friend who was arrested,he used to mainline it.I should ask him if he ever got tested.

" ... Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it, no joke. And dinosaurs one walked the planet ... "
Thaiquila, I thought you said you had a high IQ?

If you'd think about it for half a second I think you might realize that Surfcrest was ~ with the 'dinosaur' comment above ~ trying to suggest that alluding to the fact that Coco Cola once in the past actually had cocaine in it was an irrelevancy ( basically saying "what's that got to do with the argument?" ), not an inaccuracy of fact (as you took the point it to be).

I think you will find that just about every member of this Board is already aware that Coke (the drink) contained Cocaine (the heinous drug) at one time way back when.

God you're thick.

Cheers ....


PS ... it's not the greatest policy to go around mentioning the fact that one's a Mensa Maurauder. Opens one up to too much ridicule when caught out.
I got his point entirely.
1929 is really not that long ago.
Hardly dinosaur age.
And also the fact that it was in Coke proves it is not such a heinous drug.
I believe in the power of drugs. The meds many of us take are drugs. Used to be, good Cocaine could be bought at the corner pharmacy. Not in dinosaur age.

God you're rude.
Cheers ....

HHmmmm,I never knew that,I know that sharing dollar bills can spread hep c,just a tiny bit of blood with hep c is very cantagious.Im glad to have tested negative for that,Im wondering about my friend who was arrested,he used to mainline it.I should ask him if he ever got tested.
Yep. Hep C kills.
http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/971122496.html

in the form of Gilbey's, you are very correct about Hep C and I've always been terrified of catching it as you definitely have to give up the booze if you want to live longer.

The issue of cocaine in Coca-Cola...from the snopes website:


How much cocaine was in that "mere trace" is impossible to say, but we do know that by 1902 it was as little as 1/400 of a grain of cocaine per ounce of syrup. Coca-Cola didn't become completely cocaine-free until 1929, but there was scarcely any of the drug left in the drink by then:

By Heath's calculation, the amount of ecgonine [an alkaloid in the coca leaf that could be synthesized to create cocaine] was infinitesimal: no more than one part in 50 million. In an entire year's supply of 25-odd million gallons of Coca-Cola syrup, Heath figured, there might be six-hundredths of an ounce of cocaine.


I'll leave it to you mathematicians to figure out how many thousands of gallons of Coca-Cola you would have had to drink to consume the amount of cocaine in one snort. I'll tell you this, though: by my own feeble math, the one kilo found in possession of our friendly local dead drug dealer would have been enough to produce 14 BILLON GALLONS of Coca-Cola.

I think even the dimmest among us (and that's pretty fucking dim) will appreciate that the Coca-Cola argument is laughable at best.

Now wait another second.
Cocaine, real cocaine, not trace elements in Coca Cola, was commonly sold in US pharmacies. Over the counter. By pharmacists. How horrible a drug is it exactly then? Yes, it is addictive, but so is coffee.
Different drugs are not equally dangerous. Many so called dangerous drugs have merits and benefits if used intelligently. Alot of the danger of cocaine is related to its illegality. Yaba in the other hand is demonstrably a horrible drug.

I just find knee jerk fear and hatred against all drugs about as mindless as knee jerk homophobia.

I wish we could still buy pure clean cocaine in the drug stores of today.

In any free economy, once a demand for a product of a service is identified, a supply mechanism will be established. That is axiomatic. On the other hand, the converse does not work. For example, when Coca Cola marketed New Coke, the product was pulled in a few months due to lack of consumer interest. My point? The only way to eliminate drug dealers is to eliminate drug users. No demand, no supply.

Thaiquila, I thought you said you had a high IQ?

PS ... it's not the greatest policy to go around mentioning the fact that one's a Mensa Maurauder. Opens one up to too much ridicule when caught out.

Of course any idiot can go around claiming to be a member of Mensa it does not take a genius to do so. :bounce:

I always find that those that boast about their certain 'special abilities' are those that also also indulge in a lot of wishful thinking, maybe even coke induced?

I never said I was a member of Mensa. What a bore! I just said I had a high IQ.

Thaiquila, your ignorance is showing.

Pharmacies never sold pure, crystalline cocaine -- as in what drug fiends put up their noses -- over the counter.

What they sold was remedies produced with very, very small, trace amounts, of tincture of coca leaves. There have also been remedies sold over the years with trace amounts of heroine, morphine, opium, strychnine, lye, lead, mercury, hemlock, and arsenic in them. That does not mean that these substances were or are ever safe in their concentrated forms -- or that they should be put up one's nose.

Thaiquila, your ignorance is showing.

Pharmacies never sold pure, crystalline cocaine -- as in what drug fiends put up their noses -- over the counter.

What they sold was remedies produced with very, very small, trace amounts, of tincture of coca leaves. There have also been remedies sold over the years with trace amounts of heroine, morphine, opium, strychnine, lye, lead, mercury, hemlock, and arsenic in them. That does not mean that these substances were or are ever safe in their concentrated forms -- or that they should be put up one's nose.
This was REAL cocaine, yes as part of tonic preparations. Taking the tonics gave you the effects of real cocaine because it was real cocaine. Morphine was also sold over the counter, no scrip needed. Coca leaves are needed to make cocaine, obviously.

[Dodger]

REAL cocaine was prescribed by doctors in years gone by as a band aid for many ailments. I'm not talking about trace elements...but the real deal...the same stuff that Al Pacino packed up his nostrils

Like all natural cures, cocaine was labeled as an illegal drug because of its wide spread misuse as a recreational drug by us wizards of the West. Natural cures such as cocaine and opium are still used by families in Asia for medicinal purposes, although still classified as illegal globally.

In 1993 the Honorable King of Thailand called for a halt in opium production due to the pressure Thailand was receiving from the global community. The pressure of course was the result of massive misuse of opium and the subsequent effects, e.g., street crime escalations, robberies, murders, over crowed jail cells, drug over doses and deaths, not to mention the problems with drug cartels getting larger and more powerful via the enormous profit margins.

Thailand's northern rim (Chiang Rai) was, and still is, part of the infamous Golden Triangle, which is claimed to be the source of 70% of all the worlds opium supply. From what I understand, the mass harvesting of the crop came to a immediate halt in 1993, although there are still families growing and harvesting small gardens for medicinal purposes. Thailand is still considered part of the Golden Triangle, although, the supply now comes from Laos and Miramar.

There isn't a synthetic drug sold in the West, regardless if it's prescription or non-prescription that has any value for humans. It's a shame we can't learn more from the East.

Man made alcohol - God made marijuana - who do you trust more?

[Aunty]

I'll leave it to you mathematicians to figure out how many thousands of gallons of Coca-Cola you would have had to drink to consume the amount of cocaine in one snort. I'll tell you this, though: by my own feeble math, the one kilo found in possession of our friendly local dead drug dealer would have been enough to produce 14 BILLON GALLONS of Coca-Cola.

I think even the dimmest among us (and that's pretty fucking dim) will appreciate that the Coca-Cola argument is laughable at best.

Well the information I have is that there was about 60 mg of cocaine in one serving (250 ml; a cup) of coca-cola. If that is the case 1 kg of cocaine would be enough for 4167 litres of coca-cola (4167 1 litre bottles). (1 kg/60 mg x 250 mls = 4167 lts)

Doesn't seem so much to me.

[Dodger]

Then...along came Pepsi.

I'll leave it to you mathematicians to figure out how many thousands of gallons of Coca-Cola you would have had to drink to consume the amount of cocaine in one snort. I'll tell you this, though: by my own feeble math, the one kilo found in possession of our friendly local dead drug dealer would have been enough to produce 14 BILLON GALLONS of Coca-Cola.

I think even the dimmest among us (and that's pretty fucking dim) will appreciate that the Coca-Cola argument is laughable at best.

Well the information I have is that there was about 60 mg of cocaine in one serving (250 ml; a cup) of coca-cola. If that is the case 1 kg of cocaine would be enough for 4167 litres of coca-cola (4167 1 litre bottles). (1 kg/60 mg x 250 mls = 4167 lts)

Doesn't seem so much to me.

No, dear -- you're off by a factor of 375. It was .16mg of cocaine per 250 ml serving. Perhaps all that nose candy has fried your brain?

You'd have to drink 6,000 glasses of the original version of Coca-Cola to get the equivalent effect of one snort.

[Surfcrest]

1) I don't think cocaine is that bad. wrong
Your opinion. If you had ever tried good cocaine, you would see there is great pleasure in it.
If I had, I wouldn't be boasting about it on a Message Board.
2) If it is GOOD cocaine. wrong - no such thing as good cocaine
Again, not true. By good, I mean pure, not cut with garbage.
Nothing plus nothing leaves you nothing, same applies to this garbage.
3) It is a traditional South American drug and making a strong comeback in Bolivia. wrong
Maybe you are referring to the practise of chewing Coca leaves.
Of course I am. Cocaine is made from coca leaves.
You said cocaine is making a comeback and there is a big difference between chewing leaves and doing lines.
4) Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it, no joke. And dinosaurs one walked the planet
You are so wrong. It did indeed. Until 1929.
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp
And you are old enough to have enjoyed that pleasure too?
5) I tried it about five times, and twice during sex. Unforgettable. Cocaine makes your dick shrink
that's something most would want to forget
Not my dick. Coke isn't speed, dear. And yes, I remember every detail and sensation of one experience in particular in a slum Baltimore row house.
And how beautiful did that slum Baltimore row house look behind drug induced, rose colored glasses?


The bottom line here is that Cocaine is an addictive drug that ruins people's lives and drives people to crime in order to support their addiction. Anyone who thinks Yaba is the greater evil is spending too much time going through the Thai trash cans of Sunee not to notice their own American problem. Crack, another derivative of Cocaine and a derivative of those Coca leaves the Bolivians are chewing has created American neighborhoods too dangerous to police.


you can get a heart attack and also hepatitis due to impure formulation. If it was legal and regulated, there would be no impurity issues. Another reason to legalize most drugs.

Another steamy pile of B.S.

Hepatitis huh? From what?

So we can get pure cocaine out on the street simply by legalizing and regulating it?
Who's going to manage the addicts in your legalized, regulated world Thaiquila?

Surfcrest

Surfcrest, your adolescent pissing contest has become tiresome.
What are you, a cop or something?
That said, admitting to previous experimentation with drugs is nothing to be ashamed of, and is no bar to higher office (bush).
The hepatitis from cocaine appears to be transmitted by the delivery methods, such as needles, and blood on snorting tubes, and not anything in the drug. My previous error, sorry.
Crack cocaine is not the same thing as the high class snorting powder. I do think crack is much worse.
I continue to advocate rationality in thinking about drugs. Just because police and politicians use it to whip up hysteria, doesn't mean they are right about everything, or that different kinds of drugs, especially when used in moderation, don't have different danger profiles.

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/971122496.html

[Surfcrest]

Surfcrest, your adolescent pissing contest has become tiresome.
What are you, a cop or something?
That said, admitting to previous experimentation with drugs is nothing to be ashamed of, and is no bar to higher office (bush).
The hepatitis from cocaine appears to be transmitted by the delivery methods, such as needles, and blood on snorting tubes, and not anything in the drug. My previous error, sorry.
Crack cocaine is not the same thing as the high class snorting powder. I do think crack is much worse.
I continue to advocate rationality in thinking about drugs. Just because police and politicians use it to whip up hysteria, doesn't mean they are right about everything, or that different kinds of drugs, especially when used in moderation, don't have different danger profiles.

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/971122496.html

You obviously claim to know quite a bit about a subject, when in fact as the discussion continues you appear to know less and less with everything you write.
So be it, if you think my challenging your general lack of knowledge is an adolescent pissing contest.
With no adolescent freinds of my own, I wouldn't know "an adolescent pissing contest" to see one.
You mentioned how cocaine was making a comeback in Bolivia.
I told you you probably meant chewing leaves, from which you said they shared the same sources.
Now I mention Crack and you somehow think the relationship between leaves and cocaine is greater than the relationship between powder and rock.


Just because police and politicians use it to whip up hysteria, doesn't mean they are right about everything

Trust me, they are more right about this particular subject than you will ever be.

You can whip your dick back out again, if this makes you feel the need to pee.
Better yet, save it for the next time the Thais ask you for a sample.

Surfcrest

You're a total asshole. I am putting you on ignore.

[Surfcrest]

You're the one promoting cocaine and I'm the asshole?

Maybe while you are waiting for your cheeseburger you'll have time to read a book amd provide some information that actually has some value.

Surfcrest

[bao-bao]

1) For those who cared for the person anyone's death is a shame. A life wasted for any reason is a shame, also. Life is full of choices, and apparently the man made some bad ones. I by NO means condone what he was accused of doing, but I wish him better luck in his next life.

2) As for cocaine: Yes, I did my minor share of it 20+ years ago. Yes, I saw it do lasting (and sometimes fatal) damage to people. No, I couldn't control my usage. Yes, luckily I chose to stop before it became a problem for me. I haven't touched it since.

3) Over the years there have been a number of "drugs" (i.e. cocaine, morphine, LSD, etc.) that have been available legally UNTIL THEY WERE FOUND TO BE DANGEROUS on some level, and then they were taken off the market and regulated. We had Prohibition in the US, and although that was repealed I'm not at all sure that even alcohol should be so readily available (or heavily promoted).

In the US the so called (and totally unwinnable "war on drugs") is just a ploy to drum up funding for policing organizations. Another element of American fascism and the ruling military industrial complex. What is wrong with informed adults making their own choices about what they put in their body? Alcohol is a good example. It is a devastating drug, kills millions of people, but it is culturally acceptable. Pot is way less destructive and yet illegal.

boygeenyus has very carefully avoided the issue of the comparability of addiction between heroin and nicotine - as I predicted he would. And I recall jousts of old with Surfcrest over the decriminalisation of so-called hard drugs. Surfcrest doesn't understand that decriminalisation does not equal a free-for-all - the same government regulation of supply would operate as does for nicotine and alcohol. All overuse of drugs problems are a medical issue, not a legal one

[Aunty]

I'll leave it to you mathematicians to figure out how many thousands of gallons of Coca-Cola you would have had to drink to consume the amount of cocaine in one snort. I'll tell you this, though: by my own feeble math, the one kilo found in possession of our friendly local dead drug dealer would have been enough to produce 14 BILLON GALLONS of Coca-Cola.

I think even the dimmest among us (and that's pretty fucking dim) will appreciate that the Coca-Cola argument is laughable at best.

Well the information I have is that there was about 60 mg of cocaine in one serving (250 ml; a cup) of coca-cola. If that is the case 1 kg of cocaine would be enough for 4167 litres of coca-cola (4167 1 litre bottles). (1 kg/60 mg x 250 mls = 4167 lts)

Doesn't seem so much to me.

No, dear -- you're off by a factor of 375. It was .16mg of cocaine per 250 ml serving. Perhaps all that nose candy has fried your brain?

You'd have to drink 6,000 glasses of the original version of Coca-Cola to get the equivalent effect of one snort.

What's the source of your information?

A word from our Spokesperson:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0xZ0qg_hYw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0xZ0qg_hYw)

[cottmann]

I'll leave it to you mathematicians to figure out how many thousands of gallons of Coca-Cola you would have had to drink to consume the amount of cocaine in one snort. I'll tell you this, though: by my own feeble math, the one kilo found in possession of our friendly local dead drug dealer would have been enough to produce 14 BILLON GALLONS of Coca-Cola.

I think even the dimmest among us (and that's pretty fucking dim) will appreciate that the Coca-Cola argument is laughable at best.

Well the information I have is that there was about 60 mg of cocaine in one serving (250 ml; a cup) of coca-cola. If that is the case 1 kg of cocaine would be enough for 4167 litres of coca-cola (4167 1 litre bottles). (1 kg/60 mg x 250 mls = 4167 lts)

Doesn't seem so much to me.

No, dear -- you're off by a factor of 375. It was .16mg of cocaine per 250 ml serving. Perhaps all that nose candy has fried your brain?

You'd have to drink 6,000 glasses of the original version of Coca-Cola to get the equivalent effect of one snort.

What's the source of your information?

"Coca-Cola didn't become completely cocaine-free until 1929, but there was scarcely any of the drug left in the drink by then:

By Heath's calculation, the amount of ecgonine [an alkaloid in the coca leaf that could be synthesized to create cocaine] was infinitesimal: no more than one part in 50 million. In an entire year's supply of 25-odd million gallons of Coca-Cola syrup, Heath figured, there might be six-hundredths of an ounce of cocaine." From http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp

[Impulse]

This whole war on drugs is total bullshit.they cannot be stopped and its just another ploy by the powers that be,just like the military industrial complex that is being fed by this war in Iraq.They must have been jumping up and down with joy when the world trade center was hit,all the money that would reap for the defense industry.Im more concerned about white collar crime in America than the drug problem.

I'll leave it to you mathematicians to figure out how many thousands of gallons of Coca-Cola you would have had to drink to consume the amount of cocaine in one snort. I'll tell you this, though: by my own feeble math, the one kilo found in possession of our friendly local dead drug dealer would have been enough to produce 14 BILLON GALLONS of Coca-Cola.

I think even the dimmest among us (and that's pretty fucking dim) will appreciate that the Coca-Cola argument is laughable at best.

Well the information I have is that there was about 60 mg of cocaine in one serving (250 ml; a cup) of coca-cola. If that is the case 1 kg of cocaine would be enough for 4167 litres of coca-cola (4167 1 litre bottles). (1 kg/60 mg x 250 mls = 4167 lts)

Doesn't seem so much to me.

No, dear -- you're off by a factor of 375. It was .16mg of cocaine per 250 ml serving. Perhaps all that nose candy has fried your brain?

You'd have to drink 6,000 glasses of the original version of Coca-Cola to get the equivalent effect of one snort.

What's the source of your information?

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola



Originally designed to be sold at soda fountains, Coca-Cola was later sold in bottles, whose distinctive shape have become a part of the drink's branding. Major advertising campaigns have established Coca-Cola slogans such as "The pause that refreshes" as part of popular culture. The formula for Coke, whose status as a trade secret has been embellished by company lore, once contained trace amounts of cocaine (about 1/400th of a grain, or 0.16 milligrams, in 1902)[2], although this was removed around 1929 as health regulations were tightened.

[Aunty]

Ah ok, similar to Cottman's. Mine relates to the amount of cocaine that used to be in Coca Cola before they removed the bulk of it for health and safety reasons around 1900. It must have being some drink! lol.

OK, Aunty...so what is the source of YOUR information?

[Aunty]

OK, Aunty...so what is the source of YOUR information?



http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/webpages/a ... story.html (http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/webpages/andean2k/cocaine/history.html)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A10832384

[Smiles]

Just as a reminder, but this is the tiny blurb which began this thread ... it's now 7 pages of anti/pro cocaine-use (sorry Auntie) on my settings, and bound to get longer now that the Intellectual Troll-of-Oz has popped up onto the Board again for his monthly period ~ (of bloody posting).


" ... Mark the former owner of Time Bar Sunee Plaza.
Died while in custody on Sunday !6th July in Pattaya.
R.I.P. ... "

Bet Monty will be avoid posting obits on the Board for quite some time. :bounce:
For me, a couple of lines of quality coke sound pretty good at this stage.

Cheers ...

if you park your car in a NO STOPPING "Its only a matter of time.".......

Eventually you get caught.

An apropos reference for a meter maid...

[catawampuscat]

The man is dead and one should not speak ill of the dead..

The problem with this man was not that he was a drug dealer but that he was a user as well and used the drugs with
the boys in Sunee and many who would not have been able to afford it, developed problems and a dependency on this
man.. I know one more than one young Thai that was totally messed up during his time with this man and have heard of
others that he used drugs with and he was no saint but he is dead and let me rest in peace and let us all move on...

And no, I have no proof but my own eyes and ears and I do know one of his bfs that looks ok now, but was really a mess for
a long time with this man.. maybe time to close this thread ?

[bigben]

"The problem with this man was not that he was a drug dealer"........

Are you fucking out of your mind?

Sorry board, but statements like that are disgusting to me.

So you and guys like you condone drug sales and drug usage too?

I better stop before I end up giving a upper right hand jab to idiots on this board.

Have a great night all.....

I'm with you, Ben. It's sickening.

[lonelywombat]

The problem with this man was not that he was a drug dealer but that he was a user as well and used the drugs with
the boys in Sunee and many who would not have been able to afford it, developed problems and a dependency on this
man.. I know one more than one young Thai that was totally messed up during his time with this man and have heard of
others that he used drugs with and he was no saint but he is dead and let me rest in peace and let us all move on...

?

Why waste all the boards time on a man like this. Maybe he is dead but what about the people he introduced to this vile practice.

I cannot feel any compassion for him and regret he went easy.

Now we're talking!

Monty, so this drug pusher, now we come to find out -- even worse than your run-of-the-mill drug dealer -- was a buddy of yours, eh?

[jinks]

OK ladies...

This has gone far enough.. don't re-start it I don't like to delete.