Visa Success At Last!

[scottish-guy]

After several YEARS of trying (and no doubt boring you all to death with the saga), I'm overjoyed to be able to tell anybody who's interested that I have finally succeeded in getting my Vietnamese BF a UK Visa.

He has today been issued with a (wait for it....SIX MONTHS) multiple entry Visitors Visa, valid from late December.

My new book "How I Did It" will be published in January 2018 and will feature full illustrated details :D - meanwhile helpful advice for anybody in the same position can he had free of charge by PM.

Thanks to those SGT members who supported/helped along the way.

:drink::drink:

[dinagam]

Congratulations!
One of the few highlights in life.

[a447]

Persistence sometimes pays off.

December is a bit of a worry though - hope he doesn't freeze his nuts off!

[Brad the Impala]

That will be a wonderful feeling for you both. Congratulations!

[cdnmatt]

Congrats! Hope you guys have a good time in the UK.

May I ask, how do you think he'll take the UK? Do you think he'll enjoy it, or will he hate it, and won't be able to wait to get back on a plane to Vietnam? Could go either way, all depending on his personality. For example, think he'll be ok for eating over there? There's no sticky rice in the UK. :)

[scottish-guy]

The temperature will be the biggest hurdle - but I do have my central heating on 24/7/365 at 23c which although I realise is cooler than he is used to, it's not exactly freezing.

For outside, a trip to the shops will be high on the agenda as he has nothing warm to wear (why would he?). Once he is properly kitted out he should be ok - if I can survive the heat of Saigon why can't he survive the cold of Scotland lol

Food-wise he eats very simply, really just boiled rice, fried chicken, pork, and vegetable soups. He likes seafood but that will be curbed pronto as we'd be broke in a month with that malarkey at UK prices.

Personality wise he's a quiet one - perfectly happy at home as opposed to be out clubbing every night so hopefully that will work out.

However the proof of the pudding will be in the eating !!

He's been given a 6 month Visa but its multiple entry so if he gets homesick he can take a break, go home, and come back at a later date

[goji]

Well done there.

Remember he's got to get from the airport without freezing his nuts off as well. Scotland's a bit cold for me in summer, never mind December. So I've no idea how he's going to manage.

[scottish-guy]

Well obviously I'd be meeting him at the airport so maybe I'll bring a duvet he can wrap round himself in the car :D


Hey guys, it's Scotland, not Siberia !!

[joe552]

Ah scottish, that is surely great news. I'm genuinely really happy for you both.

I assume by now you've picked out the required tartan for his kilt?

[FarangRuMak]

Throw him at the deep end.
Instead of 23c. 24/7 indoors go straight to a grouse moor on Day 2.
Followed by a day’s rough shooting.
On day 3 a more relaxed session of driven shooting.
Then a few days or whatever it takes to bag a Stag.
Then a go at Pike in your local burn.
In other words normal life for a Scot....he must learn that when in Rome....

[colmx]

Congrats! I remember only too well the frustration of Attempting to get my BFs first Irish visa... And of course the elation when he finally got it
There are loads of Asian food stores in Dublin.. so I presume that there are also in Scotland? He can get all his frozen seafood there....
BTW is his Dad coming too? Wasn't that part of one of your Visa applications?

[scottish-guy]

Yes - but although they both applied at the same time - and actually as part of the same application as far as letters of invitation etc were concerned - his father has not had a yes or no so far.

[joe552]

SG. might I ask what his name is?

[arsenal]

When elderly men turn up with their 'boyfriend' 30 years younger than them it would be remiss of the immigration department not to ask a few questions.

[scottish-guy]

Really don't see the point of that comment.

[cdnmatt]

If you don't mind, please keep us updated on how his trip goes. I'd like to know how he takes to the UK. For example, will he find it a very cold and isolating society? Things like that...

[arsenal]

Otherwise every sex starved jock would pitch up in Vietnam, Cambodia or some other dirt poor country, collect their 'boyfriend' and bring him back to The UK.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

Congratulations Scottish!

I am sure you will find a way to keep him warm...

[scottish-guy]

Len you are so bitter and twisted - I haven't just "pitched up in Vietnam" and "brought him back", I've been in this relationship for seven years.

Obnoxious as you're being, you're not going to spoil my day!

[bobsaigon2]

SG: About winter clothing: BF can spend some time at the clothing stalls in Saigon Square Market. He will definitely find suitable and adequate winter wear. I got a very substantial Northface jacket, with removable insulated lining. No need for you to bring a duvet to the airport when he arrives. :)

[arsenal]

Just imagine. You spend all that time and money getting a visa to get your 'boyfriend' back to Gorbals. He takes one look at the place and says 'I'm not staying here." Assuming he speaks English.

[bobsaigon2]

This post should be exclusively about celebrating the success of SG's bf in getting his visa. Anything else is inappropriate.

[arsenal]

Give it receive it. End of.

[bobsaigon2]

Give it receive it. End of.

There was nothing inappropriate in this thread until your post 14.

[arsenal]

This thread, no. Plenty of others. He gives it out he gets it back. End of. But you're right, this is a very special day for Gorbals Jock and his eh..."boyfriend'.

[joe552]

arsenal, all of us who've posted on this thread are really happy that SG''s BF has finally got his visa. Your comments are so far out from the feeling here. Bitter? probably. Why not just be happy for SG's good news>

[pennyboy]

I don't wish to put a dampener on the subject but having a Visa does not guarantee entry to the UK.

[sglad]

After several YEARS of trying (and no doubt boring you all to death with the saga), I'm overjoyed to be able to tell anybody who's interested that I have finally succeeded in getting my Vietnamese BF a UK Visa.


Congrats, scottish-guy! Your perseverance paid off. I hope your bf will enjoy his stay in the UK and wish the both of you the very best. :)

[colmx]

This thread, no. Plenty of others. He gives it out he gets it back. End of. But you're right, this is a very special day for Gorbals Jock and his eh..."boyfriend'.

Classless

perhaps we should all start to post the comment "classless" @Arsenal each time he posts another one of his bitter posts

[marti]

Hey guys, it's Scotland, not Siberia !!

What's the difference? Both are desolate and unpleasant.

[joe552]

Marti, you've obviously been to both?

[scottish-guy]

As are you.

But thanks for previously giving me the tagline which I've placed immediately above my avatar

:p

[scottish-guy]

...BTW is his Dad coming too? Wasn't that part of one of your Visa applications?


Yes - but although they both applied at the same time... his father has not had a yes or no so far.

Just to update - his father has also now received a Visa (am I good or what :D).

So the plan is for both to come over late Dec, with his father going home after 2 weeks (he suggested a week but that's a waste of a trip) - and BF staying on.

Christ - I'll have to get up the loft and get my pink (yes, pink) Xmas tree down, haven't bothered with it for about 15yrs !

[joe552]

A pink tree? Ah please Mary.

Really hope it all goes well SG.

[scottish-guy]

The pink Xmas tree has been liberated from the loft but even though it was in a couple of black bags it's a bit grimy after 15yrs (prob condensation) - so I will have to erect it, stick it in the shower, spray it with Cillit Bang and rinse it off - then it should be sparkly clean.

I have ordered tinsel, baubles, and lights as I threw everything out years ago.

I feel I should post a pic once I manage to get it up :p

[joe552]

I'm not sure the board rules allow you to post a pic when you finally get it up. Though I've heard other sites are available to share that kind of smut. Would you not just throw it out and buy a new one? I know you're Scottish, but there has to be a limit.

[Smiles]

Thanks for the good news Scotttsh ... I'm sure you're ecstatic.
Last time I heard of a Thai guy enjoying Scotland's weather was when he was accepted in 1995 as a neophyte golf instructor/cum/masseur (nudge nudge) at St. Andrews.

Good luck with your guy in this interesting journey.

[bobsaigon2]

The pink Xmas tree has been liberated from the loft but even though it was in a couple of black bags it's a bit grimy after 15yrs (prob condensation) - so I will have to erect it, stick it in the shower, spray it with Cillit Bang and rinse it off - then it should be sparkly clean.....

No offense SG, but even here in Vietnam I think people would eschew a pink tree. So démodé, so passé. Maybe BF's father will offer you 100,000 Dong to replace the tree (or simply to keep it out of sight).

[joe552]

There you go SG. The board is anonymous on this - ditch the pink tree.

[scottish-guy]

Fuck off the lot of you - the pink tree stays and I shall even buy (darker) pink tinsel for it just to annoy you even more :p

As for Joe posting about "smut" - it's been decades since I heard that word and I can only assume that he had a masturbatory fantasies about Mary Whitehouse when he was a teenager

5995

[joe552]

Eh, no I didn't. She was a woman, wasn't she? Not my type/gender/age range/preference/nationality.

I could to go on....and I will

[bobsaigon2]

[QUOTE=scottish-guy;230971]Fuck off the lot of you - the pink tree stays and I shall even buy (darker) pink tinsel for it just to annoy you even more :p

Up to you, of course SG, but don't be surprised if you notice them wince every time they pass the tree.

[arsenal]

Sub-zero temperatures and Gorbals Jock"s 'jokes'. Moses cellar sounds the better option.

[scottish-guy]

Well, clearly you're down there with your gimp mask on moving any posts critical of you, so you'd know

[scottish-guy]

Up to you, of course SG, but don't be surprised if you notice them wince every time they pass the tree.

Great when someone can tell me how two people he has never met (but whom I have known personally for 7 years) are likely to react to something.

I'm fairly confident they'll see the funny side - but if my pink tree annoys them there's always a tent they can put up in the back garden as alternative accommodation !!

:D

[bobsaigon2]

Great when someone can tell me how two people he has never met (but whom I have known personally for 7 years) are likely to react to something

:D

It's just a guess, of course, based on only 31 years close contact with Vietnamese, including 17 years here in Vietnam. No offense. :)

[scottish-guy]

Absolutely no offense taken but let's not generalise - the two people concerned are not run of the mill Vietnamese

[arsenal]

Deep fried Christmas dinner anyone?

[bobsaigon2]

Arsenal, It's not a technique that is employed much outside the southeastern US and I would be hesitant about recommending the cooking method, based on what this article has to say:

"How to Deep-Fry a Turkey Without Killing Yourself, Indoors and Out"

http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/11/how-to-deep-fry-thanksgiving-turkey-safely.html

[arsenal]

I'm not sure how up to date you are with modern Scottish 'cuisine' Bob. It's the home of deep fried pizza, deep fried Mars Bars and even deep fried ice cream.

[joe552]

arsenal, you do know how tiresome your Scottish jibes have become? Almost as bad as my birthday night out.

[bobsaigon2]

I'm not sure how up to date you are with modern Scottish 'cuisine' Bob. It's the home of deep fried pizza, deep fried Mars Bars and even deep fried ice cream.

Yes, I was familiar with this propensity to produce deep-fried items. There's a British gentleman in New York whose two restaurants will deep dry anything you ask for. In fact, that may be a perfect alternative to the customary oven roasted turkey at Christmas. Just take the bird along to your nearest deep-frying establishment (call first to see if they accept turkeys).

Of course I know nothing about all this. Just trying to keep things on the light side. Never had a deep fried Mars bar.

[scottish-guy]

Never eaten a deep fried Mars Bar or ice-cream in my life (but I would try either!)

Deep fried Pizza is perfectly acceptable - its just fried bread basically - no biggie.

However I would definitely turn my nose up at the English delicacy of jellied eels - and I did hear Arsenal got Toed In The Hole and was worried about his Spotted Dick

[arsenal]

If done properly with the correct size, cooking time, batter and garnishes a deep fried Mars Bar would undoubtedly be delicious. My recipe.
2 fun size Mars Bars.
Normal batter made with soda water.
Raspberry puree. Fresh raspberries.
Vanilla ice cream.
A few shortbread cubes for crunch.

[a447]

If done properly...

Sorry, but I don't think there is any way it could be done properly!

Yuk! Yuk! Yuk!

Why not just eat the icecream with the purée and shortbread??

You'd probably live longer, too.

SG, give one of those to your friend and I reckon he'd be on the next plane home!

[scottish-guy]

This from guy who turns his nose up at a battered fun-size Mars bar in his mouth

- but who can't get enough mega-size cock up his battered old funhole

:D

[a447]

Having a battered Mars bar would be like sucking on a cock with a condom.

Yuk!

Where possible, natural is always better.

[Dalewood]

There you go SG. The board is anonymous on this - ditch the pink tree.

Mrs. Slocum lives on....

[Dalewood]

Arsenal, It's not a technique that is employed much outside the southeastern US and I would be hesitant about recommending the cooking method, based on what this article has to say:

"How to Deep-Fry a Turkey Without Killing Yourself, Indoors and Out"

http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/11/how-to-deep-fry-thanksgiving-turkey-safely.html

I am from the Southeastern US and I never heard of such until a few years ago.

[joe552]

Dalewood, you're not the first person to say that about me.

[Dalewood]

Oh, I thought they called you Mr. Humphries... :-)

[joe552]

No, SG is Mr. Humphries.

[scottish-guy]

I'm free!

[joe552]

I'm not free, but I'm cheap.

[arsenal]

Are you going to get your 'boyfriend' s Christmas stocking?

[scottish-guy]

I don't even understand that

:confused:

[arsenal]

Yep, my bad. It should read will you be getting your 'boyfriend' a Christmas stocking? So will you?

[scottish-guy]

I have a large sack

[scottish-guy]

Update:

There were 2 Vietnamese and a Scotsman on a train to Glasgow ..........

Entries close 31/12 ( a date that will live long in SGT moderation history)

:D

[joe552]

SG I'm genuinely delighted for you. Have a wonderful holiday. Have you bought their kilts yet?

[arsenal]

Excited to hear how this saga unfolds over the next six months.
:yahoo_mini:

[a447]

Yep, me too!

Bring it on!

Even for me Scotland is a place of some mystery. I can't even begin to imagine how a couple of Vietnamese guys will find the experience.

[arsenal]

We are united in curiosity a447.
:mocking_mini:

[scottish-guy]

FYI - the intention is not a 6 month stay - because if he stays the whole 6 months he cannot return within the next 6 months - otherwise he'd be deemed to be "living" in the UK and not a genuine "visitor"

[joe552]

Are you planning a visit to Gretna Green, SG?

[arsenal]

Ooh yes. That would make a great story. Members must be salivating at the potential of this unique Celtic Nativity.

[joe552]

arsenal, here's a personal challenge. A long time member of the board is sharing some good news. Say something positive.

[arsenal]

It's all positive Joe. Any exciting news on your Christmas slippers?

[scottish-guy]

Gretna Green is not on the agenda - visa rules prohibit entering into a marriage or civil partnership.

Meanwhile I have the heating cranked up to 24c and his dad is sitting with a hat and coat on and the BF is away to bed to keep warm

Lmfao

[joe552]

Brilliant SG. Enjoy the whole experience.

arsenal, I like my slippers so much I'm taking them to Thailand with me.

[goji]

Gretna Green is not on the agenda - visa rules prohibit entering into a marriage or civil partnership.

Meanwhile I have the heating cranked up to 24c and his dad is sitting with a hat and coat on and the BF is away to bed to keep warm

Lmfao

Have they ventured outside since arriving ?

[scottish-guy]

Sure - we have been out every day and they complain less about the temperature each time.

Mind you, it has been quite mild this week!

:D

[arsenal]

I heard a rumour that Christmas lunch in Gorbals house had been delayed until the 27th because that's when Bernard Mathews frozen turkey dinners are half price.
:D

[joe552]

arsenal, you are a fucking sad human being.

[arsenal]

:boredom:

[sglad]

Even for me Scotland is a place of some mystery. I can't even begin to imagine how a couple of Vietnamese guys will find the experience.

That would certainly be true of someone with limited imagination. The Vietnamese diaspora is all over the world; there are Asians all over the world as travellers, students and residents. This sort of thing would only be interesting to someone with a colonial mentality, sheltered existence and, yes, limited intelligence and imagination - the sort of person who has to rent prostitutes in order to have some conversation.

[a447]

That would certainly be true of someone with limited imagination.

An elderly Australian masquerading as a 25 year old Singaporean on a gay chat site takes a lot of imagination , I'd imagine.

Scottish guy's guests are not part of the Vietnamese diaspora. They live in Vietnam asaik. I don't think they are world travellers or students studying overseas.

So what point are you trying to make?

Whatever it is doesn't seem to relate to my comment at all. It relates more to me.

I think that was your intention.

The topic is SG's guests, not me.

[FarangRuMak]

I hope the holiday works out for you and guests but it's something I would never organise.
My relationships with my Thai 'buddies' be they short or longterm are very contextualised.
Part of the reason that I have a few longterm 'friends' is that a huge part of their day-to-day lives does not involve me.
They have their culture, (esp language/dialect) their local friends, their families, their routines, their special interests and so on.
Take them to very different physical and social environment and I fear you will find that boredom and loneliness will set in.
When this happens you can wear youself out trying to humour them which is bad for both parties.
But good luck at any rate.
And beware the thirsty cougars-they love exotic meat.

[Marsilius]

What about the photo of the pink Christmas tree as mentioned in post # 35?

[joe552]

Never mind the Christmas tree, I want to see a photo of the BF in his kilt.

[scottish-guy]

The kilt was not worn to the Hogmanay party - in favour of trousers, shirt, tie, and waistcoat.



After me getting it pressed too!

:mad:

[arsenal]

Hilarious.
:D

[joe552]

SG what did your visitors make of the Hogmany Ceilidh? (note I've used the Scottish spelling as a mark of respect)

[scottish-guy]

6324
What about the photo of the pink Christmas tree as mentioned in post # 35?

Sharp-eyed members?

[Marsilius]

Very nice. Straight out of Homes & Gardens or World of Interiors. No sign of a fairy on the top, though...

[scottish-guy]

My arse is too tight to sit on the top of the tree - thought you'd have guessed

:D

[arsenal]

Now that the glitter of Christmas is fading, what may I ask are you going to do to stave off the mind numbing boredom? Three months of a brutal Scottish winter for a young man with no work to occupy him is going to be difficult. In retrospect, would it not have better to bring him over in the summer?

[scottish-guy]

SG what did your visitors make of the Hogmany Ceilidh? (note I've used the Scottish spelling as a mark of respect)

About as much as I made of it - extremely nontraditional - bring back Andy Stewart or the Alexander Brothers. However we did meet a real character - a 70+yo woman who had been on XFactor and BGT.

Anyhoo:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKoi8f2RRx0

No doubt Len can post some Morris dancers or Ferret racing as 'culture'

[scottish-guy]

Now that the glitter of Christmas is fading, what may I ask are you going to do to stave off the mind numbing boredom? Three months of a brutal Scottish winter for a young man with no work to occupy him is going to be difficult. In retrospect, would it not have better to bring him over in the summer?

Yes it would Len - but the bastards at the Home Office decided otherwise, so what am I supposed to do?

[arsenal]

I thought you wrote he had a 6 month visa so he could have come over in April. No matter, you'll need to find a way to keep him occupied. Boredom can be very destructive.

[scottish-guy]

We have waited almost 7 years for a Visa - he wanted to come (and I wanted him to visit) ASAP - - not waste almost 4 months out of 6 waiting on better weather!!

He is coping fine with the weather now he has suitable clothing - his father however is still wearing an overcoat indoors :D

We are currently in London and its bloody freezing

[joe552]

Continue to enjoy his visit SG. Keep us posted.

[scottish-guy]

The father went back to Vietnam last week after nearly 3 weeks of sitting indoors with a hat, coat and gloves on - we took him to London to catch his flight and spent 3 extortionately priced days there. Must be high in the rankings for most expensive city in the world.

Anyhoo, BF and myself just getting on with life - he is starting some study tomorrow to keep him occupied and with a view to future prospects.

Seeing an immigration lawyer on Tues to ascertain what options if any exist to keep him here

[FarangRuMak]

Thanks for the update.
This post will be of interest to people out there with plans to bring their partner into the west.
Looks like my fears that the Scottish ladies would move in on him were groundless.
Probably proves that they get good and regular service from their own Scotch Jocks.

[goji]

Anyhoo, BF and myself just getting on with life - he is starting some study tomorrow to keep him occupied and with a view to future prospects.
Seeing an immigration lawyer on Tues to ascertain what options if any exist to keep him here

He must be adapting to the grim weather surprisingly well.
After returning to the southern parts of the UK from Thailand in the new year, I'm reviewing my finances to ascertain what options exist for keeping myself in SE Asia for all of next winter.

[scottish-guy]

Yeah he acclimatised after a week - even allowing for the snow

[MiniMee]

The father went back to Vietnam last week after nearly 3 weeks.....

Độc lập. Sự tự do. Hạnh phúc.

[bobsaigon2]

Độc lập. Sự tự do. Hạnh phúc.

Yes, free at last. Happiness.

[frequent]

Yes, free at last. Happiness.Good of you to use this quotation on MLK Day. However ... without attribution? "Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty we are free at last" - Martin Luther King

[bobsaigon2]

Good of you to use this quotation on MLK Day. However ... without attribution? "Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty we are free at last" - Martin Luther King

What are you on about? I was providing a loose translation of MiniMee's Vietnamese post (#107): Độc lập. Sự tự do. Hạnh phúc

[frequent]

What are you on about? I was providing a loose translation of MiniMee's Vietnamese post (#107): Độc lập. Sự tự do. Hạnh phúcHeavens Bob, haven't you put me on "ignore" yet, you tiresome fellow

[bobsaigon2]

Typical frequent: deflection instead of admission of error.

[frequent]

Typical frequent: deflection instead of admission of error.Heavens Bob, haven't you put me on "ignore" yet, you tiresome fellow

[scottish-guy]

I'm just surprised that MiniMee didn't accuse me of never having been in Scotland

[MiniMee]

Typical scottishguy: deflection instead of admission of ignorance.

[scottish-guy]

Ignorance of what?

[frequent]

Ignorance of what?He's merely repeating what that silly old fool bobsaigon2 says of my posts. Poor Bob of course is incapable of seeing that I respond that way because I know it will annoy him

[MiniMee]

Ignorance of what?

Apposite!



But OK scotty, since you clearly didn’t even hear the whoosh, I’ll explain for you:

In post #107 I responded to your statement that ‘The father’ had buggered off back home, leaving you in peace with your bf, with the words Độc lập. Sự tự do. Hạnh phúc. Bobsaigon offered a rough translation, but he didn’t get it quite correct.

In English, those words are Independence - Freedom - Happiness which is of course the national motto of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

In the circumstances, I thought you might find those words to be....well, Apposite!

That’s all.

[bobsaigon2]

Độc lập. Sự tự do. Hạnh phúc. Bobsaigon offered a rough translation, but he didn’t get it quite correct. I

It would have sounded too formal (but more accurate, I agree), so I translated loosely to fit the situation.

[FarangRuMak]

There it is again; the trending word of the month.

[frequent]

There it is again; the trending word of the month.An apposite comment - just don't mention Prince Andrew

[scottish-guy]

So anyway - following our tete-a-tete with the Immigration lawyer (whose meter was running faster than a BKK taxi driver's), there do not seem to be any options for the BF staying on in the UK (which is much as I expected).

The only way he could remain would be to claim asylum which given that Vietnam is not known to criminalise/persecute gays (the only applicable situation we can think of) would be a very difficult claim to succeed in.

Otherwise, all options involve leaving the UK and hoping to be granted a fresh Visa of whatever category (absolutely not guaranteed)

So, some serious thinking will be required over the next few months as to how to move forward.

[Nirish guy]

I'm sure you've looked into it a hundred times SG but what about a ( genuine) study visa as that seems the automatic route for most guys ?

I know one Chinese friend of mine came here on a tourist visa and on liking the place ( god knows why) asked me to take him Queens University ( which he knew nothing of but had just googled "local Uni'). I explained cockily "oh trust me it doesn't work like that" and he looked at ME strangely and just said "ok, but take me please anyway". I did, he literally walked in the front door with no appointment, spoke to "someone" ? ( in the classes department I guess), he then picked ( WAS SOLD) some random course that he liked / could tolerate and signed up for and paid for it on the spot.

His fee ( which was considerable I seem to recall - like over a grand I think or maybe even two ?) but he was clear that to the Uni it was a business and they would do anything to help him get in / get his visa - as long as he paid them of course.

But that was it, he stayed here a while until the end of his tourist visa, then instantly switched over to his Study visa without having to leave the country, he then moved into digs here and stayed several more months and only left by his own choice again several months later and once he got bored. The whole study visa thing was obviously only a means to an end for him as he didn't give a toss about actually studying as his family were apparently rich enough to afford multiple Visas in several Countries that he visited it seems as I noted on facebook that he played that same card in several Countries that he visited it seems and it seems he just factored in "study visa cost" to his overall costs of world travel it seems.

So What about that - no joy there perhaps ?

[scottish-guy]

Well the Study Visa/Student Visitor Visa was a route we tried 5 years ago and it was refused.

We did not find the process anywhere near as easy as your Chinese friend and (please take this in the spirit it's intended) there are a number of serious omissions in the story as it has been told to you:

1. You need to PROVE you have a shitload of money which will sustain your living expenses throughout the duration of your Course. At the time we tried it was a minimum of £800 per month - so for a one year course you'd need to have (and demonstrate you had) "recourse to funds" of £9600 in an established bank account in your name for at least the last 6 months

2. The only way around that (if you're unable or unprepared to deposit 10,000 knicker in your BFs bank account for 6 months) is to claim that YOU will underwrite that sum of money and then the onus falls on YOU not only to PROVE you have "recourse to funds" but (and here's the bitch) PROVE you will give those funds to him. Quite how you are supposed to PROVE what you will do in the future remains a mystery and that was the excuse they used to refuse the Visa - that they "were not satisfied" that although I had deposited said funds in a dedicated UK Bank Account and had certification to prove it, that I would actually make those funds available to him if and when he arrived.

3. As the "sponsor" you then have to submit yourself to intense scrutiny - this involves providing the title deeds to your property, your bank statements, your birth certificate, even the logbook of your car!! All of which must of course be notarised by a solicitor at your own (considerable) expense.

So, to sum up, yes it could be something to look at again but it's something we tried years ago and either your Chinese friend is extremely well off on his own account or there are aspects to his application he's not telling you.

The other aspect I find confusing is that he seems to have gained a Study Visa whilst in the UK on a Visitor Visa - we were told yesterday that this simply isn't possible and that any application for any other Visa must be made from your country of residence - which would involve going back to Vietnam and starting again.

But I do appreciate you taking the time to post a suggestion :drink:

[Nirish guy]

Whilst the above happened maybe 4 years ago now I can assure you that it WAS exactly as I've outlined above. Even I was surprised just how easily he literally walked into Queens, picked a course, paid ( up front) for it, got whatever paperwork he needed and that was it - I dont even think HE did the visa stuff, I think that was the university as part of his "fee" as he was staying with me at the time and I dont recall any / or much paperwork floating around at the time and he honestly couldn't have cared less and obviously having did this before it was all just a matter of routine to him it seemed - and the bottom line is it MUST have worked as he did stay on here for maybe 9 months more I think before moving on.

All those other things - I think I would have a go at again if I were you. Surely the bank account thing would be just a matter of giving him a bank debit card etc ( and removing the money the second the visa was granted of course ! :)? I do think though as you've said my chinese friend WAS well off ( if not bloody rich actually) with family money as he just seemed / seems to spend his life travelling. I've watched his facebook travels since and he would put many of us to shame !

I assume BTW that you've also looked into "specialist skills"and employing him in some bullshit way too ( although I'm not sure "blowing the boss" counts as THAT special (well to them if not to you ! ) as with the amount people who ARE getting their Visa's to here now I wouldn't give up hope perhaps - best of luck either way of course.

Mind you on reflection - now that you've got your first tourist visa ( which is of course by FAR the hardest) and they tend to be a lot more lenient there after in the issuing of further visas it seems as theres a proven record of going home etc, perhaps one x 5 or 6 months visit a year or 2 x 4 month visits a year just might well work as enough for both of you so that you still have the best of both worlds - quite literally.

[scottish-guy]

Yes the 6 monthly visa route was my original plan but now of course he doesn't ever want to go back to Vietnam for the other 6 months!!

There's also (as the lawyer advised) a long term visitors visa which still affords the 6 months out of 12 stay in any calendar year but can be valid for 2, 5,or 10 years to save re-applying every year - but again you have to go home.

We have made contact with some of the Vietnamese community here to try to get some tips but (you've guessed it?) it turns out my BF is the only one of the lot who's here legally :D

[MiniMee]

I am surprised that frequent hasn’t suggested it but wouldn’t getting married be the answer to your visa problems?

[scottish-guy]

That would be the answer - except that he is specifically not allowed to get married or enter a civil partnership in the UK on a Visitor's Visa, nor does Vietnam recognise same sex marriage, so that's out too.

A few years ago it was trumpeted that Vietnam was going to lead the way in Asia with same-sex marriage. The reality was different and turned out to be that you can now go ahead and have a nice little same-sex wedding ceremony in Vietnam if you feel like it (nobody will stop you) but legally it means nothing, therefore the UK will not recognise it, so bang goes that Visa option.

I really feel that after 7 or 8 years to get him here we are not going to be split up by red tape, so if I can't keep him here legally (and he desperately wants to stay and wants nothing in the way of state benefits) then I may have to just bite the bullet, sell up, and move elsewhere.

As one gets older the limited time left really concentrates the mind and one realises there is very little time to piss about before one's health inevitably dictates that all options have run out

[bobsaigon2]

There is really something VERY special about a Vietnamese guy who desperately wants to stay somewhere as cold as Scotland. Good find, SG.

[cdnmatt]

I guess it all depends on your persona, but living in Asia really isn't very bad SG. It's to the point I can't really imagine myself living in a cold and isolated society such as Canada anymore, and much prefer the life you see and experience on the streets in Asia. I'm also quite confident Leo will dislike Canada for those same reasons -- the paranoia and fear that permeate the West just don't really exist out here, and it's somewhat of a sigh of relief.

Like you said, you only live once. I wouldn't be too scared of packing up and moving, as there's always a decent chance it will turn into one of the best decisions of your life.

[FarangRuMak]

There is really something VERY special about a Vietnamese guy who desperately wants to stay somewhere as cold as Scotland. Good find, SG.
Jesu! it's not as cold or as boring as say Norway.
A friend met a Norwegian girl who invited him to spend a week in her 50,000 pop town.
After dinner 1st night he rubbed his hands, put on his coat and asked the family which pubs they were all going to.
Blank faces all around; only 3 pubs in the town, closed already, no skiing because no snow though still freezing cold ....
The week took a lifetime and of course no sex because of Pappa.

[FarangRuMak]

Re: Visa Success.
Pity he's not a middle east migrant.
I see a few irrate male Sweedes complaining on line about the queues of divorced women lining up to 'adopt' single male migrants (just like your guy) but never taking females or families.
It happened in the Calais migrant case in the south of England too.
So many 'children' had beards that the authorities put up screens on the pier.
Check it out on utube.

[scottish-guy]

Reminds me of the time that Scotland reached the final of the under 16 World Cup and had to play Saudi Arabia - the Saudi "under 16s" were all 6ft tall, built like brick shithouses and had full moustaches and beards whilst ours looked like........15/16yo schoolboys (as you'd expect)

After the (inevitable) defeat Scotland protested to equally corrupt FIFA that there was no way that the Saudi players were under 16s - but the Saudi response was that they don't bother with formalities like birth certificates so there was no way of checking - and they got away with it!!

[goji]

That would be the answer - except that he is specifically not allowed to get married or enter a civil partnership in the UK on a Visitor's Visa, nor does Vietnam recognise same sex marriage, so that's out too.

If you are happy with the idea of marriage*, then would it not be possible to identify a third country, where you can get married & where the marriage is likely to be recognised in the UK ? Must be a soft target in the Shengen zone ?

(*I would not entertain the idea myself, but that's not relevant to this thread)

[FarangRuMak]

Now the lefties in Britain are condemning efforts to 'age' the migrants as 'offensive' on the BBC et al.
They are stating (by default) that a full beard and or dental growth do not necessarily signify any particular level of male maturity.
The latest advocate of this theory trending now is a black, liberal, middle aged, female, Labour Party supporter whose name is of no business of mine.

[cdnmatt]

If you are happy with the idea of marriage*, then would it not be possible to identify a third country, where you can get married & where the marriage is likely to be recognised in the UK ? Must be a soft target in the Shengen zone ?

(*I would not entertain the idea myself, but that's not relevant to this thread)



I could be wrong, but I highly doubt it. For example, if we got married in say Ireland, and tried to submit our Irish marriage certificate to the Canadian government for permanent residency status via spousal sponsorship, I'm certain it would be rejected, and we'd be told to get married in Canada and provide a marriage certificate from a Canadian provincial government.

I would imagine the same holds true for the UK.

[Nirish guy]

^ I don't think so Matt - I think it your marriage would (have to be ) recognised as both Countries recognise equal marriage - I think ? Why not give it a try and see, only cost you two flights and a marriage licence to find out if we're right or not - worth the gamble in my book. SG would the same not apply to you too ??

[kkjason]

^ I don't think so Matt - I think it your marriage would (have to be ) recognised as both Countries recognise equal marriage - I think ? Why not give it a try and see, only cost you two flights and a marriage licence to find out if we're right or not - worth the gamble in my book. SG would the same not apply to you too ??

I believe you are correct Nirish. In America's case - it was quite common for gays to get married in New Zealand up until a few years ago. They could then use that marriage certificate to apply for a marriage visa to the United States, as long as they we planning to live in one of the states that recognized gay marriage at that time. Now that the entire country recognizes gay marriage, the point is a bit moot, except for the fact that many still use a third country in order to get the marriage, and not fiance visa. It saves time down the road. The point being - if the country you are going to recognizes gay marriage, then they should likely also recognize a license issued by another country.

Cheers -

[cdnmatt]

Right, but the UK recognizes civil partnership, not same-sex marriage.

That, and I guess I'd have to consult an immigration lawyer, but I'm quite confident if I submitted a permanent residency status application in Canada via spousal sponsorship, they would flat out reject it if I submitted an Australian marriage certificate. Maybe I'm wrong though, and that's what immigration lawyers are for.

Assuming I'm right, I would imagine the UK is the same. That, and UK doesn't recognize same-sex marriage, so it's a moot point.

[cdnmatt]

On top of this, does the UK maybe work differently than Canada when it comes to marriage laws?

In Canada, marriage is done at the provincial level, hence regardless of immigration status (visitor, work permit, illegal, whatever), you can still get married without issue. Is the UK different in that respect, and marriage is done at the federal level, or?

[scottish-guy]

Matt, thanks for input but just two things : you have stated twice that the UK "does not recognise same sex marriage" - it absolutely does - and irrespective of the legislative "level" at which marriage takes place (the honest answer is I don't know) the current issue is that his Visitor Visa specificially precludes it as well as work and study

The suggestion of using a third country to get married is one I will certainly look into.

The issue is going to be whether my BF can obtain a Visa/Schengen Visa for that "third" country (notoriously difficult for Vietnamese to gain lawful entry to anywhere outside of the Asean countries) and whether the conditions of that Visa and the laws of the particular country allow or preclude entering into either a CP or marriage.

A preliminary search suggests that Latvia and the Czech Republic are the easiest Schengen countries to obtain a visa from (99% approval apparently) - but I've yet to search their same-sex policies

[scottish-guy]

Ok it appears Latvia and CZ are out:

"As of October 2017, fifteen European countries legally recognise and perform same-sex marriage: Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom. In Austria, marriages will be legal from 1 January 2019".

Out of those I don't know which ones would readily grant a Visa to a Vietnamese citizen. Denmark is mooted online as the easiest to get married in but the ease of obtaining the Visa is not stated and the list of documents required for a marriage is quite onerous

[bobsaigon2]

The rules in Ireland don't appear to be onerous and there doesn't seem to be any problem if the couple are both foreigners. But does that mean you BF would find it any easier to re-enter or settle permanently in Scotland? Then you're back to UK rules. Or you could just remain on the Emerald Isle. :)

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/different_legal_ways_of_getting_married.html

[Nirish guy]

Alas as I’m sure SG knows only too well unfortunately Southern Ireland are part of the shenghen arrangement ( by choice) and so entry to there for his BF would be just as tough as entering the UK. Also as SG points out some ( most ?) Countries take a dim view of you using a tourist visa to get married whilst there - saying that that’s take a dim view BUT THEY CANT STOP YOU and the only risk is they perhaos slow down or refuse your next visa application, but if it’s just a country you are “using” for that purpose then that might not matter much anyway - worth looking into SG I think.

Also just for clarity I can confirm that MOST ( but not all) of the UK now allows equal marriage. England, Scotland and Eakes yes - but my very own Northern Ireland are still holding out due to the Ultra right wing evanegical Christian DUP ( bigots) who are in charge here ( even though just now they’re technically not but as they have the UKZ Government by the balls just now due to their lack of a majority in the main UK Parliament I can’t see that changing anytime soon or without court rulings ordering them to allow ( and that’s been tried and failed once already too :-( but we’re keeping up the fight here and as we say a lot here No Surrender !!!

[cdnmatt]

Matt, thanks for input but just two things : you have stated twice that the UK "does not recognise same sex marriage" - it absolutely does - and irrespective of the legislative "level" at which marriage takes place (the honest answer is I don't know) the current issue is that his Visitor Visa specificially precludes it as well as work and study

The suggestion of using a third country to get married is one I will certainly look into.

The issue is going to be whether my BF can obtain a Visa/Schengen Visa for that "third" country (notoriously difficult for Vietnamese to gain lawful entry to anywhere outside of the Asean countries) and whether the conditions of that Visa and the laws of the particular country allow or preclude entering into either a CP or marriage.

A preliminary search suggests that Latvia and the Czech Republic are the easiest Schengen countries to obtain a visa from (99% approval apparently) - but I've yet to search their same-sex policies


Ok, sorry, I'm not too well versed on UK law. Unsure if this helps any, but I've been through this process before, albeit in Canada. My first husband was Hungarian, and we successfully got him PR status to Canada. If it helps any....

- It took about 18 months and $8000. I think the application fee itself was only about $700, but he had a high-end immigration lawyer help us. We had meetings with 5 different lawyers, and picked the one we liked.

- We got married in Canada while he was an illegal immigrant. He came in under a 6 month visitor VISA, and stayed for 5 years. Again, marriages in Canada are under the provincial governments, so federal government and immigration have absolutely nothing to do with them. Maybe the UK is different.

- This is actually one of the main reasons we moved to Budapest. If you apply from outside of Canada and get rejected, you have the right to one appeal. Apply from inside Canada and get rejected though, you have no right to appeal, and simply get your deportation notice.

- The first round of documentation was about 3 inches thick, and took about 6 weeks to put together. They want everything -- financials, bank statements, lease / house title if you own, cover letters from each of you explaining the relationship, letters from family and friends on both sides verifying the relationship, tax returns, joint bank account statements, timestamped photos of you together, things like birthday cards from family / friends, business registration if you own a business, travel itineries of any trips you took together, criminal background checks from all countries you ever resided in, etc.

- I had to modify my cover letter, because it mentioned that we got married on advice from the lawyer. She said that was a really bad idea, as the government doesn't take kindly to people who only get married for PR status I guess.

- During the application process, we submitted two more rounds of documentation, each about 1 inch thick. Just photos of us together in Europe, proof of residence, more letters from family, extra photos ad birthday / Christmas cards, etc.

- After 18 months, he got a letter from the Canada embassy saying he's approved. He went to the embassy in Vienna and have his PR status affixed to his passport. Upon entry to Canada, he got his PR card, and all necessary forms to get a SIN# for work, health care, etc.

- You'll have to check UK law, but the one reason I highly doubt we'll ever apply to get Leo PR status is because under Canadian law, you need to reside in Canada for 2 out of every 5 years in order to retain PR status. If you don't, they revoke your status.

- I had to sign that I would take care of him for 10 years. If he conducted any criminal activity, went on welfare, or anything of nat nature, then I was held liable for him.

Obviously, best to consult an immigration lawyer, but I would imagine the process is somewhat similar in Canada and the UK.

[goji]

Ok it appears Latvia and CZ are out:

"As of October 2017, fifteen European countries legally recognise and perform same-sex marriage: Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom. In Austria, marriages will be legal from 1 January 2019".

Out of those I don't know which ones would readily grant a Visa to a Vietnamese citizen. Denmark is mooted online as the easiest to get married in but the ease of obtaining the Visa is not stated and the list of documents required for a marriage is quite onerous

The whole idea of the Shengen zone is once you have a visa for one Shengen country, you can use it to legally enter all of them. A necessary step, since they don't have any border controls either.

So I think you need to:

1 Figure out which country grants a Shengen visa most easily.
2 Decide which Shengen country to get married in, quite separately.
3 I imaging marriage in one EU country has to be recognized in another, as anything else goes against the whole ethos of the organization.

Of course, please check my logic is right on points 2 & 3.

[Brad the Impala]

Well the Study Visa/Student Visitor Visa was a route we tried 5 years ago and it was refused.

We did not find the process anywhere near as easy as your Chinese friend and (please take this in the spirit it's intended) there are a number of serious omissions in the story as it has been told to you:

1. You need to PROVE you have a shitload of money which will sustain your living expenses throughout the duration of your Course. At the time we tried it was a minimum of £800 per month - so for a one year course you'd need to have (and demonstrate you had) "recourse to funds" of £9600 in an established bank account in your name for at least the last 6 months

2. The only way around that (if you're unable or unprepared to deposit 10,000 knicker in your BFs bank account for 6 months) is to claim that YOU will underwrite that sum of money and then the onus falls on YOU not only to PROVE you have "recourse to funds" but (and here's the bitch) PROVE you will give those funds to him. Quite how you are supposed to PROVE what you will do in the future remains a mystery and that was the excuse they used to refuse the Visa - that they "were not satisfied" that although I had deposited said funds in a dedicated UK Bank Account and had certification to prove it, that I would actually make those funds available to him if and when he arrived.

3. As the "sponsor" you then have to submit yourself to intense scrutiny - this involves providing the title deeds to your property, your bank statements, your birth certificate, even the logbook of your car!! All of which must of course be notarised by a solicitor at your own (considerable) expense.



It may be difficult, but it is achievable. Enjoy this current visit. When BF goes back home enrol him on a course, English Language is fine, apply for a student visa from Vietnam. Supply all the paperwork, despite the hassles and the guarantees required. When course runs out extend the course, or find another one. After a while you can demonstrate that you have been living together, so he goes back to Vietnam and applies for a marriage visa.

It's a question of how much is it worth to you both to be together. It's a shitload of hassle and it isn't cheap, but with perseverance it can be done and without a lawyer. I've done this twice, with variations the second time. I know friends who have also brought their boyfriends here and are now British Citizens.

I think that I gave you this link before http://https://uklgig.org.uk, the forums are a particularly good source of information.

Another useful source is here. http://www.immigrationboards.com/general-uk-immigration-forum/

Good luck.

[Nirish guy]

I think Brad has nailed it in his above post and that to me also would seem the most logical way to go and the one with the best chance of success perhaps.

Just for clarification I said in a post above that Southern Ireland are part of the Shenghen agreement, I meant of course as I continued to explain in my post) that they AREN’T ! Typo. Apologies for any confusion.

[scottish-guy]

I agree that Brad's plan appears workable - I only re-iterate that we have already been down that onerous route without success because at the end of the day the Home Office just turned round and said "we are not convinced that you will make the maintenance funds you have set aside (in a separate account) available to the applicant".

Bear in mind the impossibility of proving something you will do in the future and the fact that whatever objection the Home Office comes up with you have absolutely no right of appeal or even to an explanation of how they arrive at their conclusions

[goji]

Brad's advice looks good. Using other forums to learn what other people have done is always a good idea.
A bit of research on my idea of getting married in the Shengen zone could be worth it too (~14 months to go).

As it happens, the Thai masseur I've occasionally visited over the last couple of years was in the UK to "study English", with the visa having been arranged by his boyfriend. I gather he successfully had the visa renewed, however the Thai lad went home for a holiday & seems in no hurry to return.

Over the years, I've also visited several Thai masseurs in Berlin & every single one of them came over to live with a boyfriend several years earlier (& no longer lives with the bf). So it has been done in Germany.

Not advising anyone else here, but in the unlikely event that I were ever to do that, a pre-nup would be in place. Incidentally, a friend of mine was advised by his divorce lawyer to have a pre-cohab agreement in place before moving his prospective partner in. Whether that is good advice, or to generate more legal feees, I have no idea.

[Marsilius]

And, what with Brexit in the offing, what better time is there to relocate than now?

[Brad the Impala]

I agree that Brad's plan appears workable - I only re-iterate that we have already been down that onerous route without success because at the end of the day the Home Office just turned round and said "we are not convinced that you will make the maintenance funds you have set aside (in a separate account) available to the applicant".



For me this demonstrates your problem. You were either unable or unwilling to make the commitment five years ago, according to your narrative, to put £10K in your boyfriend's account, which would have demonstrated both your commitment to funding him and to your relationship together. You therefore gave an out to the Border Agency in considering the application, but you still don't recognise that there might have been something wrong in your approach.

Now, five years down the line, you are together here now, which is great, but still not able to work out how to have a long term future together.

The rules on bringing a partner to the UK are absolutely draconian and inhumane. Everyone working at the Border Agency will always turn down applications given the opportunity, it's easier. If you want to be successful you have to deny them that opportunity, that excuse. You have to do the hard graft and the research, and then supply all the documents required and also all the others that just might be helpful. Complaining about the cost of notarising a document, when it shouldn't be more than £5 to £10 per page, and for a passport for example it only needs to be two pages, suggests that you aren't willing or able to make the commitment.

My advice doesn't just "appear" workable, it is workable, because I and others have been there and done it. You seem to have such a negative approach to achieving this, that it becomes self fulfilling.

[MiniMee]

Why bother searching for a third country, as some others have advised above, when the the UK offers a fiancé/fiancée visa specifically for betrothed intending to get hitched within 6 months.

https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/partner-spouse

But as Brad points out, you’ll have to stump up the cash to prove financial stability too, and stop whining about it.

[scottish-guy]

It's not a matter of "whining" MiniMee, it's a matter of finding the best solution to a fairly complex problem.

Nor is is a matter of "stumping up" money (although you'll have noted there's a £993 non-refundable application fee with absolutely no guarantee of success).

[MiniMee]

I see. Nevertheless, the UK fiancé/fiancée visa seems to be the simplest solution, doesn’t it?

[scottish-guy]

Yes - on the surface - but I'm getting conflicting info from the Immigration lawyer to the effect that it has to be applied for outside the UK whereas the website suggests you can apply whilst IN the UK as long as you have 28 days left on your existing visa.

So i'll need to get clarification

[goji]

Is your Vietnamese friend still braving the Scottish winter ?

If so, well done to him. Even the English winter is bad enough right now.

[gerefan2]

Is your Vietnamese friend still braving the Scottish winter ?

If so, well done to him. Even the English winter is bad enough right now.

Haha...and it’s just got a lot worse! Is he impressed?!

[scottish-guy]

He loves the snow in itself but is a little disappointed by the restrictions it causes.

This weekend we are off to Ben Nevis area for a few days and he is going to have a ski-ing lesson or two - that's assuming I can get the car out of my driveway tomorrow!!

[scottish-guy]

Ok, I know you're all fascinated by my ongoing saga - so the latest is that BF's father (who couldn't last 3 weeks in the Scottish weather), hot on the heels and on the strength of his still current UK Visa has now applied for a Schengen Visa to visit Spain.

This could be interesting.

[frequent]

He loves the snow in itself but is a little disappointed by the restrictions it causes. This weekend we are off to Ben Nevis area for a few days and he is going to have a ski-ing lesson or two - that's assuming I can get the car out of my driveway tomorrow!!Is he impressed by your Loch Ness monster?

[scottish-guy]

We cruised Loch Ness on the murky and brooding Sunday (in a boat I hasten to add).

No monsters were sighted other than a blue fluffy one at £15.00 which I was obliged to purchase onboard for him

[arsenal]

Re. Your prospective father-in-laws trip to Spain. That is certainly interesting and I look forward to reading about it.

Re. The purchase of a cuddly toy. May I ask how old this young man is?

[goji]

He loves the snow in itself but is a little disappointed by the restrictions it causes.

This weekend we are off to Ben Nevis area for a few days and he is going to have a ski-ing lesson or two - that's assuming I can get the car out of my driveway tomorrow!!

I doubt Vietnam has much skiing, so trying it in Scotland must be a good experience. How did he get on ?

[Nirish guy]

Yes - on the surface - but I'm getting conflicting info from the Immigration lawyer to the effect that it has to be applied for outside the UK whereas the website suggests you can apply whilst IN the UK as long as you have 28 days left on your existing visa.

From general info that I've read re that over the year I believe that your solicitor is correct - well, both opinions are correct HOWEVER whilst you CAN technically apply for a marriage visa whilst here in the UK on a Tourist Visa and there's nothing that immigration can do to stop that and in fact you could even get married whilst here, that doesn't apparently give your spouse an automatic right to reside here with you and apparently if immigration have seen that you've tried to use that particular loop hole to try and circumvent their preferred system they take a very dim view of it and do then go out of their way then to refuse your spouse or make life a LOT more difficult for then in general.

Their advice is very clear I believe re this in that they say you should ( MUST) return to your own Country and apply for the marriage visa FROM THERE and wait for their normal processes to follow and you should not use the Tourist visa they kindly granted you ( especially if a first issue one) to then try and play smart with them.

So I think your solicitor is spot on in this regard.

[scottish-guy]

Welcome Back NIrish - your thinking concurs with mine - except I really don't think you could "defy" the conditions of a Visitor Visa and just get married anyway - I'm sure the Registrar would ask to see his Visa either before the ceremony or when it came to registration.

Having said that, I'm prepared to consider the use every loophole I can find. You do read about people being allowed to stay because e.g. they have a cat dependent on them but I guess that's just Daily Mail crap.

We have made contact with Vietnamese in Glasgow but since there's not a single one of them came here legally they have not been of much help!! Their tactic seems to be to get pregnant if female or to inseminate a woman if male, and thereby they become entitled to stay because the resultant baby is born British.

Goji - he enjoyed the ski-ing but I don't think it's something he wants to do again - but I'm happy that he had the experience.

[Nirish guy]

Welcome Back NIrish - ..........- except I really don't think you could "defy" the conditions of a Visitor Visa and just get married anyway

? I wasn't away anywhere, I just decided to reduce / stop posting here so much (hurrah I hear from some :-) unless it's something important like this or there's some pics attached to posts you've to be logged in to see and then I'll happily log in to view same.

Re your "I dont think you could just get married"etc - apparently yes you absolutely can - immigration can't stop you getting married BUT being married DOES NOT grant you automatic right to residence I believe and THAT is where they then go out of their way to make life hard for you if you've broken or tried to bend their rules so I think doing it "by their book" IS the best way for sure and they'll see and appreciate the fact you did do that and I'm sure at some level that's bound to get you some brownie points somehow.

[frequent]

Welcome Back NIrish - your thinking concurs with mine - except I really don't think you could "defy" the conditions of a Visitor Visa and just get married anyway - I'm sure the Registrar would ask to see his Visa either before the ceremony or when it came to registration.Actually scotty you're wrong to be so sure as a simple Internet search using the phrase "can I marry on a visitor visa in the uk" will show. Here's an answer from one such site in the results, which sets out the situation in full. I have bolded a specific section for you

"Under UK's marriage law, a tourist can get legally married. But under the immigration rules, non-EEA citizen wishing to marry and then leave UK will have to get marriage visitor visa, which has to be obtained in advance. This alpplies to all regardless of whether they need a visitor visa (i.e. visa and non-visa nationals).

What the solicitor said is also (partly) true. The rules say that you cannot enter UK as a general visitor with the intention of getting married. But if someone decides to have a quick marriage after entering UK, there's nothing to stop them.

Register offices have to follow marriage law but it's not their job to enforce immigration rules. Some registrars refuse to proceed with legal preliminaries to a marriage (giving notice etc) without seeing an appropriate visa in the non-EEA citizen's passport. Others are less concerned.

To marry and then to stay on (settle) in UK, fiancé(e) visa is essential. Without it, the non-EEA spouse has to leave UK and apply for spouse visa from their country of residence."

http://www.expatforum.com/expats/britain-expat-forum-expats-living-uk/113961-marrying-uk-without-fiance-visa.html

[goji]

Their tactic seems to be to get pregnant if female or to inseminate a woman if male, and thereby they become entitled to stay because the resultant baby is born British.

Our government needs to shut the door on that loophole. Particularly with the Taliban sympathizers.
Keep immigration for people who arrive legally & have good prospects of integrating into our society.

[scottish-guy]

Frequent - your research (thanks for that) has thrown up a very interesting possible scenario:

The most difficult part of applying for a Fiance visa is proving the relationship - but if you are correct and despite the UK Govt declaring you cannot marry on a Visitor Visa you did it anyway then it would not be a Fiance Visa one would be seeking but a Spouse Visa, right? And if you are actually married might it be a tad more difficult for the Home Office to deny that you are in a relationship?

[frequent]

Frequent - your research (thanks for that) has thrown up a very interesting possible scenario:

The most difficult part of applying for a Fiance visa is proving the relationship - but if you are correct and despite the UK Govt declaring you cannot marry on a Visitor Visa you did it anyway then it would not be a Fiance Visa one would be seeking but a Spouse Visa, right? And if you are actually married might it be a tad more difficult for the Home Office to deny that you are in a relationship?I can't comment as I'm not an expert on UK immigration law

[frequent]

Our government needs to shut the door on that loophole. Particularly with the Taliban sympathizers. Keep immigration for people who arrive legally & have good prospects of integrating into our society.And what exactly are you doing to encourage this change? Having discussions with your MP and pressure groups? The National Front is probably your best bet there

[scottish-guy]

I can't comment as I'm not an expert ...

It's never stopped you before

:D

[frequent]

It's never stopped you beforeI leave that sort of thing to the Three Stooges - each a total ignoramus - these days

[scottish-guy]

Predictably the attempted 'crackdown' of 2 or 3 months ago has fizzled out like a damp squib having achieved precisely nothing except antagonise members.

Now stop derailing my topic or I'll set Francois on you

:devilsh:

[frequent]

Now stop derailing my topic or I'll set Francois on youLike being whipped by a limp lettuce leaf

[scottish-guy]

I usually only go for that if the wet celery and the chamois leather knickers are also available

[arsenal]

Scottish Guy wrote.
"I've never thought much of your chat but I'm happy to confirm you're full of chit."

[scottish-guy]

Clearly feeling the burn.

[goji]

Hopefully we can get back onto the more interesting stories of how your delightful* Vietnamese lad is coping with the Scottish winter. Spring must be only 3~4 months away now.

[*Assumption]

[cdnmatt]

May I ask, have you consulted an immigration lawyer yet? That may be a start.

Feel for you though, as we've begun preparing all the necessary documentation to secure Leo a visitor VISA to Canada, so we're stuck fucking around with immigration as well.

What's your BFs education like? One way to get him in on a more permanent status may be via an education VISA, and put him in university in the UK. That's one route we may end up taking ourselves, but who knows at the moment. Leo is quite thrilled at the prospect of attending a Canadian university, and getting an education VISA to study shouldn't be any more difficult than a visitor VISA, except for the fact he first needs to be accepted by a university.

Just a thought though. If he attends uni in the UK, that could easily solve your immigration issues for a good 4+ years.

[arsenal]

Good suggestion Matt. It ticks all the boxes. Here is a link to The University of Edinburgh. Definitely worth exploring this avenue I would have thought.

https://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/international

[scottish-guy]

Matt, we applied for an "Education Visa" - specifically a Student Visitor Visa over 5yrs ago (with a prior acceptance at an approved educational faclity) and it was refused for no good reason - they simply said they did not believe the money I had demonstrably ring-fenced would be given to him - and there was/is no right of appeal. How one is meant to prove what one will do in the future is a mystery yet to be solved.

For those suggesting that we just get married irrespective of the fact that the Visitor Visa conditions say we cannot - I was quite hopeful about this until I looked at the Marriage Registrars website:

If you and/or your partner are a non-EEA national with limited or no immigration status in the UK, or if you or your partner do not provide specified evidence of your immigration status, your proposed marriage or civil partnership will be referred to the Home Office and your notice period may be extended to 70 days. In giving notice you should therefore allow sufficient time before the date of your planned marriage or civil partnership recognising that 70 days notice may be required.
Registrars are required to refer all marriage and civil partnership notices to the Home Office if one or both of the parties is a non-EEA national who does not provide specified evidence that they have (a) settled status in the UK (Indefinite Leave to Enter or Remain), (b) an EU law right of permanent residence in the UK, (c) a marriage or civil partnership visa, or (d) exemption from immigration control (e.g. with the right of abode in the UK).

So it looks like any attempt to ignore the Visitor Visa conditions is doomed as the Registrar is obliged to inform the Home Office when you lodge you intention to marry (as you must by lay do 28 days before the proposed marriage). The rules say the Home Office may extend your notice period to 70 days (doesn't mention banning your marriage) but I'm pretty certain they'd soon inform us that the marriage is outwith the Visitor Visa conditions ( which specifically say you cannot get married) and that they won't allow/recognise it.

We did of course speak to an immigration lawyer (£150 for 30 mins). His advice was go home and apply for Fiance Visa with no guarantee of success whatsoever. For a few reasons, this is not a viable option.

I'm determined to find a way through this - but after almost 3 months I'm no nearer finding it.

[Moses]

I'm determined to find a way through this - but after almost 3 months I'm no nearer finding it.

Isn't much easy for you both just to visit Belgium or Netherlands and to marry there, then to make procedure of recognizing of your marriage status in UK? You BF doesn't need to be in person for such recognition, and after recognition you will have official docs on the hand for his spouse visa to you. At least Russians gays who can't marry here, they do such marriages in Belgium/Netherlands.

Or, if you want to have more exotic marriage, - you can do it in South Africa - they also allow gay marriages when both guys are foreigners.

[justaguy]

I think you will find that most loopholes are already closed, thanks to the xenofobia roaring it's ugly head, in many European countries.

I would follow the advice of the immigration lawyer, as there is no other way around it, short from staying in the UK illegally.

[bobsaigon2]

SG, the regulations are in place to prevent precisely what you want to do. In the US, anyone can get married regardless of immigration status. But not at all easy to obtain a green card after marriage if one entered the US on a tourist/visitor visa.

In fact, if the foreign spouse applies for permanent residence within 90 days of entry as a non-immigrant, it is quite easy for US Immigration to accuse the individual of Misrepresentation because s/he did not state on the tourist visa application that there was an intention of marriage. In many cases, this would require the foreigner to apply for a Waiver of Inadmissibility, including evidence that it would be an extreme hardship for the US citizen if foreign spouse were not allowed to remain in America, or if the American had to leave the US to live abroad with his alien spouse.

In US law, the correct, legal course of action if a marriage does take place in the US, is for the alien spouse to return to home country and wait for processing of the spouse petition. May take a year, but it's usually fail safe.

Also about a year for processing of fiancee cases (foreigner never in US previously), and same-sex fiancee cases have had a high success rate in the US.

[goji]

Isn't much easy for you both just to visit Belgium or Netherlands and to marry there, then to make procedure of recognizing of your marriage status in UK? You BF doesn't need to be in person for such recognition, and after recognition you will have official docs on the hand for his spouse visa to you. At least Russians gays who can't marry here, they do such marriages in Belgium/Netherlands.


This seems logical. Also, there must be people who have trodden this path before, gay or straight, doesn't matter much.

[scottish-guy]

Isn't much easy for you both just to visit Belgium or Netherlands and to marry there, then to make procedure of recognizing of your marriage status in UK?

Just one wee complication there - how does he get to Belgium or the Netherlands and get married without a Schengen Visa? All suggestions gratefully received.

Rapidly coming to the conclusion that I'll have to sell up and move.

[arsenal]

I would have thought that an escrow account would negate the problem of "ringfenced money" and believability.

[cdnmatt]

John Lennon had it right...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwUGSYDKUxU

So did this kid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDQ8bW3UvQ

A world without borders. Not sure what the delay is, but it's going to happen, especially since space exploration is ramping up. People can fight it if they want, but it's inevitable... in the future, there will be a world without borders.

[Moses]

Just one wee complication there - how does he get to Belgium or the Netherlands and get married without a Schengen Visa? All suggestions gratefully received.

Rapidly coming to the conclusion that I'll have to sell up and move.

Well, if it isn't possible to obtain Schengen, then just do it in South Africa

[justaguy]

Not sure what the issue is in returning back to Vietnam, and obtaining the relevant visa from there ?

Bottom line, he has already visited the UK, has followed the law and not overstayed, there is proof of a relationship, so securing the relevant visa once back in Vietnam has become quite a lot easier. Do not try to beat the system, you will most likely fail and killed off the normal avenues in the same process. Not smart.

[scottish-guy]

Well, if it isn't possible to obtain Schengen....

It's possible - but in Vietnam, not while you're in the UK on a Visitors Visa.

I don't understand the South Africa reference

[justaguy]

It's possible - but in Vietnam, not while you're in the UK on a Visitors Visa.

I don't understand the South Africa reference

I however fail to see how one could marry in any Schengen country, without being a resident.

[Moses]

I however fail to see how one could marry in any Schengen country, without being a resident.

You haven't to be local resident or resident of EU for to marry in Belgium or Netherlands - there both guys can be foreigners and still be able to marry.


I don't understand the South Africa reference

The same about South Africa (RSA) - to marry in South Africa you haven't to be resident. Both guys may be foreigners, make marriage and get marriage certificate there, then legalize it in local embassy and represent in own country.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/258233/marriage.pdf look at point 2

Friends of mine: one of which is Russian and another one is from South Korea, had a marriage ceremony in South Africa, then they made notary apostille and now their certificate is valid in many countries under "Apostille convention"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille_Convention

[Moses]

Oh, just checked: Belgium and Netherlands closed this "hole" already.

Update: but now you are able to register partnership (and to marry from Jan 1 2019) in Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Austria


MARRIAGE APPLICATION
You can file your marriage application up to a maximum of six months prior to your wedding date. Once you have filed for your marriage application there may be a waiting period of between two and six weeks until you will be given a confirmed date of marriage.

If either of you is an Austrian citizen or resides in Austria (regardless of citizenship), your marriage application must be filed at the Standesamt which pertains to your residence.

If neither of you are Austrian or do not reside in Austria, your marriage application must be filed at the main registrar’s office in Vienna.

Standesamt Wien-Innere Stadt
Schlesingerplatz 4
A-1080 Vienna
Tel: +43-1-40134 08591
Email: post-a08(at)m35.magwien.gv.at

When filing for your marriage licence you must be both present in person.

If neither of you reside in Austria, in some circumstances the Registrar will waiver this requirement, however it would be advisable that this has been agreed to before you continue on with your plans for arranging your wedding in Austria.

If permission has been granted for you not to be in attendance, I would advise employing the services of a wedding planner or a legal professional to file your marriage application on your behalf.

When filing for your marriage application the registrar will require the following:

legal proof of marriageability and
any possible impediments to marriage
This is based on your declarations and the certificates and proof presented.

Please note: When filing the application, you must inform the registrar of the surnames you will using after marriage.

REQUIRED DOCUMENTATION
All documentation is required to be original or certified copies and translated into Austrian by the relevant authorities.

Your Certificate of No Impediment / Certificate of Freedom to Marry must not be older than 6 months.

All documentation must be submitted to the Registrar at the Town Hall at least 8 to 10 weeks prior to your wedding taking place.

The following documentation for both the bride and groom is required to be presented when applying for a marriage licence in Austria.

Certificate of No Impediment / Certificate of Freedom to Marry bearing the stamp apostille
Proof of residence (council tax bill, drivers license etc)
Full passport
Photocopies of the picture page of the passports of the bride and the groom
Photocopies of the picture page of the passports for your two witnesses, listing their name, address and occupation.
Full Birth Certificate (showing mother and fathers names), bearing the stamp apostille
If you are divorced – Decree Absolute and previous Marriage Certificate.
If you are a widower – Death Certificate of previous spouse and previous Marriage Certificate.
Name Change Deed Poll Certificate – if applicable.
Adoption Certificate – if applicable.
If you are using a Wedding Planner they will organise this on your behalf. However, if you are not using a Wedding Planner you will need to make provisions to ensure your documentation is correctly submitted and lodged on time.

[bobsaigon2]

Denmark ?

http://www.getmarriedindenmark.com/faqs/

http://storbritannien.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/family-and-legal-matters/getting-married-in-denmark/

[MiniMee]

.....just checked: Belgium and Netherlands closed this "hole" already.

Thanks for the info. No one is interested in a closed hole.

[scottish-guy]

Many of us wish you'd shut yours

[arsenal]

Have you taken your young gentleman friend to see the pandas at Edinburgh Zoo?

[scottish-guy]

Indeed I have

[arsenal]

The zoo must have moved some other animals to make room for them. Did you scream and shout and have a big hissy fit telling them they must have pissed off the ocelots or whichever animals got re-housed?

[scottish-guy]

Edinburgh Zoo is built on a hill - I was too busy wheezing to throw a big hissy fit about anything !

The City itself is built on a volcano of course, but there's little truth in the rumour that Glaswegians pray each day for an eruption :D

[arsenal]

Scottish Guy wrote.
"Hmmm - the "specialist chairs" of interest to most SGT members are probably more like this:"

[arsenal]

Scottish Guy wrote.

"Well I thought the “litte turret” was a rectal prolapse re-locator - but it turns out it’s the handle for the lid of the pot.

The real boon of the unit is that one can sit (not a typo) on one’s commode in Sunee, scoffing the meal loaf and soaking up the scintillating bonhomie without worrying about becoming “unwell in the trousers” - which I understand is a fear of certain people in their mid-seventies whom I wouldn't dream of naming"

[Brad the Impala]

Have you taken your young gentleman friend to see the pandas at Edinburgh Zoo?

For someone who regularly belittles SG's relationship you seem to take an inordinate interest in their activities!

[arsenal]

Just bein neighborly.

[scottish-guy]

By inserting posts you have copied over from other threads?

Your behaviour gets more disturbing by the day

[arsenal]

Thank you Scottish Guy. Your concern is noted.

[arsenal]

Scottish Guy wrote.
"Well let's just hope their bowels aren't as "loose" as their passports"

[scottish-guy]

Glad to see you can spare the time to move my posts about whilst simultaneously engaging in a laugh a minute riot with Jellybean over on another thread.

If you find any more spare time please use it to go play in the road - preferably at rush hour

[arsenal]

Now that summer is almost here anyone in Scotland will be absolutely spoilt for choice in places to visit. The west alone has more stunning vistas than any other country of comparable size. I've driven practically the whole 500 mile route and it's glorious.

[Nirish guy]

Have you really nothing better to do in your life Arsenal ??

Your little "game" on the board as you admitted the other day that you were playing in trying to goad SG is just SO obvious to all and just flags up all the things you were accused of trying to do before as a Mod and my god you failed there man in removing SG so is this your attempt now to try it as a mere member again, if so perhaps the Mod's should be having a quiet word in YOUR ear about your intent and how good it ISN'T for the board in general - you know the way you used to pretend you cared about ( even though we all knew differently).

[arsenal]

Anyone doing the drive should allow plenty of time to stop regularly and take photos. So many different shades of green.

[Nirish guy]

You really are a sad case Arsenal and one almost more to be pitied these days - almost.

Look what you've become, running around the threads trying to pick a fight or goad SG into one with you, when he's already told you he's put you on ignore. Can you not move on. It's over. You lost re him so why not just give it up for all our benefits for god sake eh and stop making a fool of yourself any further.

[arsenal]

Have you ever visited Scotland Nirish? Where would you recommend if visiting there?