Investment tips for Thai boys?

[cdnmatt]

I think Vanguard 500 World Index fund is about the safest bet you can get, right? For those who have no clue about the markets, nor any desire to learn the markets, I think that's a pretty safe bet, no?

He has a decent chunk in his account right now, and enough to invest. As it turns out, his mom taught him well, and he's a good little saver. Right now, he's at 4% annual interest, and even that's a little high for me to believe for a standard savings account. However, a Vanguard index fund could bring him 15 - 25% annual earninings, correct?

Anyone ever give Thai boys investment advice? Any pointers? I think Vanguard 500 World Index fund is probably a pretty good way to go though.

[latintopxxx]

assume u r referring to a Thai MB....dont think the average MB would know where to find this fund..and most probably wouldnt trust it. My advice would be to invest in something thast not easy to liquidate..like land or property..start with small apartment..rent it out..that type of thing.
Only challenge is that most drink,smoke and party their hard earned cash away...they think they are bullet proof..young forever..the saying young and dumb comes to mind...

[joe552]

I'm still waiting for Matt's post to be translated to English. You can tell I know nothing about investments.

[Brad the Impala]

Which account is paying him 4%? My Thai bank is only paying 1.5%, perhaps he is the one that should be giving the tips.

[cdnmatt]

Which account is paying him 4%? My Thai bank is only paying 1.5%, perhaps he is the one that should be giving the tips.

Yeah, I don't quite believe the 4% either, as that seems too high to me. I think your average savings account in Canada gives about 1.5% annual interest, which doesn't even cover inflation, so you're actually losing money.

Anyway, he has about 95,000 baht in his account, and believe it or not, only about 20% of that came from me. He's a good little saver!

He treats that money as long-term savings, and as though it doesn't even exist, which is great in my mind. I even managed to convince him a while back to NOT get a bank card for that account, and he heeded that advice.

However, it's still just sitting in a typical savings account. Assuming he's not willing to touch that money for a good 5 years, and considering neither of us know anything about the markets, I think one of the Vanguard funds is probably fat better than a typical savings account, correct? As long as he doesn't need that money in the next 5 years, it will surely appreciate far more in a Vanguard World Index Fund than in a savings account, right?

Again, we're only talking 95,000 baht, so not a huge amount, but enough to get out of a savings account if you're treating that money as long-term savings.

[Nirish guy]

For the record and clarity are you talking about your Leo ( from Lao ) or a totally different Thai boy perhaps ( as the title of this thread might suggest ??)

[cdnmatt]

I just said "Thai", because it's easier that way for this audience.

Same type of thing as when I say things like, "I seen on the news...".

Yes, I'm talking about Leo, my husband.

[arsenal]

Invest in a Bitcoin millionaire. Job done.

[latintopxxx]

I thought Leo was Laotian or something from across the river..

[Nirish guy]

I just said "Thai", because it's easier that way for this audience.

Same type of thing as when I say things like, "I seen on the news...".

Yes, I'm talking about Leo, my husband.

He's not of course your husband as you well know, but hey you keep throwing it out there if it makes you happy.

[joe552]

But I'm sure I was at the wedding reception. We had cake and everything.

[Nirish guy]

See, this is why your going to KK could never be taken as "proof" of anything, as there you go, you'd had a beer or two perhaps tonight and ALREADY you think you've been to his wedding, had cake, fucked the best man and got away without even bringing a present ! All poor Matt and his non husband has to do is ply you with a few champagne cocktails and by god you'll come back singing any old song they / he / his wife ( who turns up to take him home when you're pissed and you think it's his landlady) tells you.

I fear Joe you're going to have to lay off the sauce entirely for the duration of your trip if we're going to take your sworn witness statement with any credibility at all - for a least a week and maybe even TWO !

[joe552]

Seems a bit harsh, NIrish, but I take your point.

[Nirish guy]

I was sort of joking - dont worry just only one week off it will do, as I mean you ARE on your holidays and all ! :)

[joe552]

Even a week is a bit of a stretch

[NitNoi]

Vanguard is a good choice but 15% is optimistic. Over time, I think 8% (still well above bank interest) is realistic.
Encouraging a "market linked" investment is a good idea. He can add to the investment when he (or you) have some spare cash. The money is available (but not instantly) if required.

[cdnmatt]

haha, this board is pretty funny. Joe, I think upon arrival at the bus station in Khon Kaen we're going to have to do a video broadcast for all SGT members of you taking the oath with your right hand on the bible, swearing to tell the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Apparently, that's what the board has devolved into.

@nitnoi -- Thanks, and yeah, assuming he's not going to touch that money for a good 5 years, I think Vanguard is a pretty safe bet. I've only played the markets once in my life, and had my ass handed to be quite badly, so that's out.

He has no intention of spending that money anytime soon. That's what I'm for, haha. I guess he's planning to buy a motorbike once we get to Vientiane, but I think I'll just be a nice guy, and buy him one out of my money. That way I can sleep each night knowing he has a nice little nest egg tucked away in case something ever happens to me.

He says he's getting 4% right now, but that simply can't be right. Either his money is already invested in some kind of mutual fund, or he's just wrong, and I'm assuming it's the latter. Anyway, thanks. Will pull up some Vanguard charts later today, and show him, and try to convince him to flip the funds into it. Then whenever he has an extra 20 - 30k sitting in his savings account, he can just call the bank, and ask them to flip it over into his Vanguard investment.

Seems like a good plan to me at least.

[Smiles]

OK, I'll bite ... (now it's Matt the Investment Manager is it. Now that's funny! I wish I could take this Canadian dude seriously, but it's difficult. He makes it nigh impossible.)

Some few years ago I got Pot to put some money into common shares of the Krung Thai Bank. The main Thailand banks left standing after 1997 have re-worked themselves into a much more cautious, conservative, and safer environment 20 years later.
He's made only small capital gains on that trade (though lately it has gone horizonal), but I said to him the dividend at 4.6% makes it a hold-&-forget over years.
A few of the Thai banks had slightly better fundamentals but not by much, so after discussion he went with a larger dividend.

He put his own money up (his tour/taxi business is quite lucrative) and I matched him baht for baht ... but it's all his. He's happy.

[cdnmatt]

What's the mocking about, Smiles? You do know that Vanguard is where stupid people that don't understand the markets put their money, right?

For example, Vanguard 100 World Index fund? That means you're investing in the top 100 companies in the world, and guys like Google, Apple, Exxon and Boeing turning a profit is a pretty safe bet.

[Smiles]

What's the mocking about, Smiles? You do know that Vanguard is where stupid people that don't understand the markets put their money, right?
For example, Vanguard 100 World Index fund? That means you're investing in the top 100 companies in the world, and guys like Google, Apple, Exxon and Boeing turning a profit is a pretty safe bet.I wasn't 'mocking' the Vanguard idea. It's Mutual Funds and ETF's cover every sort of investment you could imagine. Not a bad idea at all.

Anyway, I tried looking up the name "Vanguard 100 World Index Fund" on the Vanguard website and couldn't find it. Is it a Mutual Fund or an ETF? Are you sure you got the name correctly?
If it's a mutual fund then often they have a quite hefty MER, which comes right off the top of your investment ... annually. So not cheap at the end of the day. ETF's are kind of like a poor man's mutual fund, the fees are lower across the board.
Generally I prefer individual stocks over funds: more liquid, small one-time trading fees, more fun.

The 'mocking' was specifically towards you in general (a hobby of mine :dirol_mini: ), not your investment idea.

[colmx]

Afaik the vanguard funds have a minimum investment of 3000 USD

So he would need to invest around 100k to start. Is he willing to lock up his entire savings account like that?

[cdnmatt]

Afaik the vanguard funds have a minimum investment of 3000 USD

So he would need to invest around 100k to start. Is he willing to lock up his entire savings account like that?


Oh, there's a $3000 minimum investment? Didn't know that. Haven't talked to him about it today, although did briefly last night, and I'm sure it's fine, especially if he sees he'll be getting a much better return than a typical savings account. He treats that money as though it doesn't exist, and doesn't need it for anything, as that's what I'm for.

His only plans for that money is to buy a motorbike once we get to Vientiane, but I think I'll just surprise him, and buy it for him. I think a decent bike is about 70k, right? I'm not rich or anything, but I'll be able to swing that.

Then more I think about it, the more I want him to put it into a fund of some kind, and Vanguard I think is a pretty safe bet with low management fees. That way, when he gets a "brilliant" idea of how to use the money, it will take him at least a few days to access it, giving him some time to second guess himself, and ensure that's what he wants to spend it on. That, and it'd just make me comfortable knowing he has a little nest egg tucked away for himself in case something ever happens to me.

[Nirish guy]

Have you not already provided some form of safety nest egg for your "husband" - how very remiss of you, I think I'd be doing that "just in case" before blowing money you may or may not have depending on if clients have paid you or not on a motorbike for him perhaps. If something happens to you, who's looking after the dogs, have you not discussed this !? And assuming it's him have you not left suitable funds to ensure he can manage to afford that without plunging the poor Thai boy back into poverty and him having to delve into his OWN nest egg just to feed YOUR dogs ! Yes very remiss of you indeed, perhaps it's YOU who needs advice on financial planning and not your Thai / Lao non husband !?

[cdnmatt]

NIrish, you seem to be under the assumption everyone is as rich as you. I'm not rich right now, so no, I don't have a nest egg setup for him. Not to mention, we've only been together for about 15 months, so it's still fairly new relationship, albeit strong.

Currently, the nest egg he has is the 100,000 baht he has in his savings account, and that's it. I don't have extra money to shower him with right now. Maybe later I will, but not right now.

He fully understand our financial situation, and is more than fine with it. He gets a bit of spending cash as money comes in, and he knows that. He's an excellent saver, and when he goes back to Laos, he always puts whatever extra money he has into his savings account.

[Nirish guy]

You’ll never have read any post from me where I claim to be rich or anything remotely close, just getting by comfortably like most other people.

And re your only just together 15 my god make up your mind man as a minute ago you were married and if married then I would have thought it would be your very FIRST action to ensure he was looked after in case anything happened to you. To me my husbands security would come well before a motorbike for instance.

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, it's about as strong as human relationships get.

And he's going to be buying a motorbike regardless of what I say or do. Not up to me. So I figure I'd rather him use my money to buy it instead of his own savings, that's all.

[FarangRuMak]

The best Tip you can give the kind of guys I see around Pattaya and Jomtien is NOT to buy motorbikes on borrowed money.
I’ve recently been told that loan defaulters go to jail in Thailand.
As regards tips on investments I recommend something very long term like mining rare metals on Mars which will allow them space and time to come up with their 5th share of the 2000 baht room rent charge payable at this month’s end.

[cdnmatt]

Oh no, there's absolutely no debt allowed in my life again. I just won't do it. If we want something, then we can make and save the necessary money to but it outright, and that includes a house. I will never get a mortgage in my life.

I actually had to explain this to Leo a while back. He's under the assumption that we're really poor, and everyone else is rich. I had to explain to him that no, they may look rich to you, but in reality about 95% of the people out there are up to their eyeballs in debt. Do you really want a 50,000 baht/month bill to the bank, 30% of which is interest? Probably not, and don't worry, we probably have more cash on hand than most people, although we may live like we're poor a little more than others.

I remember I watached a news reports a while back, and a news organization did a polling of a large number of people in the US. Turns out, about 70% of Americans don't have an extra $500 on hand in case of emergency.

[joe552]

I think the estimate here in Ireland is that most people are only 4 paydays from homelessness. I don't how true that is.

Since there's free financial advice on offer I might as well chime in with a question. In 3 years I will start to receive a modest pension (currently worth about €28,000). I can take about €3000 as a cash lump sum, and have the rest invested in an annuity. What's that, and is there something better I could do with that money?

[Smiles]

Hosannas! A small smidgen of good sense has finally leaked out of Cndmatt.

When I retired in 2007 I got rid of my last hanger-on of debt. In my case that was on a credit card.
I still have CC's for potential and unexpected horror stories but I've yet to meet one head on.

Looking back on my freedom, I'm absolutely certain that having a great retired life in Thailand (or anywhere for that matter) is best attained by having zero debt, and staying that way forever.
This advice, for what it's worth, of course does not include the filthy rich, just folks like me ... never rich, always comfortable. No dogs, but good eyes.

[bobsaigon2]

Oh no, there's absolutely no debt allowed in my life again. I just won't do it. If we want something, then we can make and save the necessary money to but it outright, and that includes a house. I will never get a mortgage in my life.

How about a life insurance policy in case Leo survives you ?

[ggobob]

Joe552, an annuity will give you a set amount for life and, perhaps, to an heir for a period of time. Annuities are very conservative and pay a hefty commission to those selling the annuity. One needs to check the stability and track record of the company selling the annuity.

I put my retirement lump sum into Vanguard funds.

[francois]

matts' posts get weirder and weirder.

[joe552]

ggobob, thanks for your message, only some of which I understood. I'd never heard of these Vanguard funds till Matt mentioned them, and still have no idea what they are.

[cdnmatt]

ggobob, thanks for your message, only some of which I understood. I'd never heard of these Vanguard funds till Matt mentioned them, and still have no idea what they are.


Vanguard funds diversify against the top performing companies in the world. For example, Vanguard 500 World fund invests its money into the top 500 performing companies in the world. They were created over 40 years ago as a simple, easy, safe investment vehicle with low management fees.

Basically, they're for stupid people like me who have no clue about the markets, nor any desire to learn them. As long as the top 500 performing companies out there continue to collectively churn a profit, then you will too. Short of a nuclear holocaust followed by worldwide economic depression, you're pretty much guaranteed to see a decent return with Vanguard.

[ggobob]

Include me in the "stupid people"

[joe552]

Sorry but I don't even understand the language. So when my pension kicks in in 3 years time, I can take €3000 as a cash lump sun, are you suggesting I put the other €25000 in a Vulcan fund? I have no idea what \i just wrote.

[NitNoi]

The safest retirement investment is an "indexed annuity" where the company promises to pay you a fixed amount, increasing with the CPI (inflation) until you die. Unfortunately, their payments are dismal - the company must cover their risks for many years and make a profit. Like "defined benefit" pensions, they have a huge downside risk for the issuer.
Better to take the risk yourself and invest in an index fund (eg: Vanguard).

[joe552]

Sorry if I come across as a bit dim. But this conversation is really useful. So i get €3000 as a lump sum. The rest to be invested. Vulcan funds are my best bet for the 250000 I'm investing?

[pennyboy]

Are we really talking about a 95,000 bt investment? The idea that a fund will give an annual return of 20-25 percent and still be classed as safe is ludicrous. My advice would be to be happy with the current 4 percent.

[cdnmatt]

Are we really talking about a 95,000 bt investment? The idea that a fund will give an annual return of 20-25 percent and still be classed as safe is ludicrous. My advice would be to be happy with the current 4 percent.


Yes, we're talking about a 95,000 baht investment. Is that a problem?

Might not be much for you, but it's enough for him to live for a year on his own if necessary.

[mahjongguy]

Morningstar gives VTWSX a three star rating and two stars for risk. I don't see the appeal, nor do I know how Leo could actually purchase it.

Over the years my partner has been buying K-EQUITY from the nearby Kasikornbank branch and KTSE and KTSF from Krung Thai Bank. These are all SET 100 index funds. None of them is great by US standards but they can be purchased without opening a brokerage account and they've been paying around 5% (after 15% withholding which can be refunded).

[pennyboy]

Yes, we're talking about a 95,000 baht investment. Is that a problem?

Might not be much for you, but it's enough for him to live for a year on his own if necessary.

It's certainly not a problem for me. It's a problem for the investor if he needs to at least maintain the value

[Nirish guy]

No matter what hes doing with it would you at least please give him 5000 baht immediately so he can add that to his fund as that 95K unrounded figure is driving my poor OCD driven mind crazy ! :-)

[cdnmatt]

No worries NIrish, already ahead of you. He'll be headed back to Laos around the 25th, and will probably round it up to 103,274 baht or there abouts. :)

This past month has been quite nice to me financially, which is a welcome relief. Still getting used to the feeling of waking up, and knowing I don't have to worry about shit like how to pay the electric bill. A welcomed change from the past year, that's for sure. Stupid going blind...