credit card skimmed

[latintopxxx]

Even though I only used my card to pay my hotel bill and withdraw cash once from an ATM...so only used it twice...somehow it got skimmed...luckily my bank has good systems in place and put a stop on it when they noticed transactions taking place in BKK and Russia within the space of 2 hours.
ATM looked legit, can only assume it was at the Pattaya hotel....but as Im not sure not going to defame them here, but have discussed my suspicions with my bank....not sure what they are gonna do about it.

[scottish-guy]

Genuinely sorry to hear about that.

Way back maybe 2000/2002 and being a naive newbie to Thailand I had my credit card cloned (that was the fraudsters technology at the time) at a certain large go-go bar in Soi Twilight. Of course I would never dream of using a credit card in such a place now but I was reckless at the time.

In those days the forgery took time and as it was paper credit card slips on manual imprint machines any transactions took a while to appear.

Transactions started to appear from Australia and Singapore - but as I could easily prove I had not been in either country (no visa stamps) the Bank refunded all the charges.

Hope you get it sorted.

[latintopxxx]

I carry insurance for this so there is no cost to me...only the hassle of getting new cards and spending 1/2 hour on the phone with the fraud division. I keep card use to an absolute minimum when in Thailand and never let it out of my sight but still got caught...

[cdnmatt]

How fo you know for sure it was in Thailand?

Anyway, bitcoin! b

[Nirish guy]

Latin said "to pay my hotel bill and withdraw cash once from an ATM"


Anyway, bitcoin! b

Yeah except meanwhile "in the REAL world" good luck trying to use bitcoin re either of those things......( no matter WHAT you claim Matt)

[latintopxxx]

Well i suspect it was in Thailand because usually when this sort of thing happens the crims will attempt to use it asap. The BKK transaction was for jewelry...followed by a similar purchase in Russia. Both the BKK & Russian transactions took place on my 2nd last day in Thailand...so I assume the skimming took place in Thailand..but yeah see your point...I really cant be sure.
Bitcoin.....really.....?!

[cdnmatt]

Bitcoin is useless? In the past hour just sitting here as a blind idiot I did:

- Deposited 2 months of rent into a Thai bank account
- Paid Leo's mother back the little he owed her by depositing in her Laos bank account
- Paid my hosting server bill
- Had a good chunk of money sent via Western Union for Leo to pick up, so we have money for daily living
- Ordered a couple bank cards, so we can finally cut out the Western Union bullshit, and I can just put the money on the cards we can use at any ATM instead
- Oh, and registered a domain name

All with bitcoin, and all from sitting here in my bed in my underwear. And all in about an hour. :)

Not to mention, rate is about $4500 USD now. At some point, you guys are going to have to accept this as at the very least a "mainstream thing" if not a currency.

[arsenal]

Matt:
I believe you have been a 'Bitcoin buddy' for many years now, extolling it's wondrous virtues and telling us that even the local vegetable stall holder gleefully accepts these little thingies in return for her homegrown pak choi. Well having got in at the early stage I would have thought that your Bitcoin account would be bulging. And yet in so many other posts you complain about the cost of this and the cost of that, even worrying about the Bt18000 ($685 maple syrup dollars) it would cost to buy Leo his visa/work permit whateveritisthingyymijig. So. it seems there is a bit (geddit) of a credibility gap between some of your posts. I'm just a curious passer by on this issue.

[cdnmatt]

Why would thinking bitcoin is an excellent, fast, secure and private method of financial exchange mean I'm rich?

I'm not bruce_nyc. But yes, for over 4 years now I've been paid solely in bitcoin.

[arsenal]

Because if you haven't mad an absolute killing on it then it means you've been spending every $ you make. Which is very hard to believe. Simple economics really.

[cdnmatt]

Or I could have went blind.

[arsenal]

No. I'm afraid that tactic won't work Matt. A $ paid in Bitcoin 4 years ago is worth about 100 times as much today and 10 times as much as just a year ago. So, unless you've spent every penny, your surplus earnings should be worth a considerable amount. Anything else doesn't make sense.

[cdnmatt]

What the fuck are you on about? Bitcoin is the same as say USD. Some people have more than others.

Some people live check-by-check. Some people have an experience that eats through their savings. Some people make more money than others. Some people don't have the ambition necessary to earn millionaire status.

Again, I'm a little clueless as to what you're going on about.

[arsenal]

No. That tactic won't work either I'm afraid. For 4 years you have been paid in a 'currency' that has gone up in value from $120 (Aug 26 2016) to $4572 (Aug 28 2017)

https://www.coindesk.com/2013-today-comparing-bitcoins-biggest-rallies/

So at the risk of repeating myself. Any surplus from that period would today be worth 38 times as much. I think it's clear what I'm saying. I'm not an economist by any stretch but even I can rip this one to pieces.

[frequent]

Bitcoin is useless? In the past hour just sitting here as a blind idiot I did:

- Deposited 2 months of rent into a Thai bank account
- Paid Leo's mother back the little he owed her by depositing in her Laos bank account
- Paid my hosting server bill
- Had a good chunk of money sent via Western Union for Leo to pick up, so we have money for daily living
- Ordered a couple bank cards, so we can finally cut out the Western Union bullshit, and I can just put the money on the cards we can use at any ATM instead
- Oh, and registered a domain name

All with bitcoin, and all from sitting here in my bed in my underwear. And all in about an hour. :)

Not to mention, rate is about $4500 USD now. At some point, you guys are going to have to accept this as at the very least a "mainstream thing" if not a currency.

Lies lies lies. You took bitcoin, but it could have been gold or Canadian dollars or any other store of value, and converted it to baht. You did not use bitcoin

Thai banks do not have accounts denominated in bitcoin
Leo's mother does not have a bitcoin account she has a Lao currency account
I suppose your server provider might accept payment in bitcoin, especially if they're a Russian criminal organisation
Bankcards store bitcoin but spit out baht or some other currency now do they? Which banks issue these?
Registered a domain name. See comments on server provider
You did not use bitcoin to facilitate any of those transactions. You cashed in part of your bitcoin piggy bank, that's all, and used the proceeds in real-world currencies to settle your transactions

[Nirish guy]

And you HAVE been telling us how you were doing very nicely there over the last 4 years Matt - and even if your very nicely was "just doing ok" or even "just living to cheap Thai standards" * which you've never claimed, you've always said you've been comfortable enough there ( if not rich certainly) but as Arsenal has pointed out several times now if you made the equivalent of even 1000 baht a day ( and you've NEVER suggested you were that broke) then that by simple economics would be worth a WHOLE lot more today - unless you spent every penny of it, every month over every year ? Surely not whilst living in KK ? So assuming you had even modest savings tucked away back then and even allowing for all the Blind treatment ( you chose not to have) and even perhaps a year of earning nothing WHATEVER small money you still had would STILL be worth SO much more today so you MUST by simple maths be doing ok / VERY WELL there now that Bitcoin is flying as high as it says - or are we missing something ?

[pennyboy]

I had my credit card cloned in a hotel in Phuket a few years ago. It was a bit of a hassle to get it sorted but I suffered no financial loss. I am pretty certain who cloned the card but by the time I discovered the fraud she no longer worked in the hotel. I asked my credit card company if I should notify the police but was specifically told not to do so.

[latintopxxx]

matty lives in fantasy land...well he's blind so heck...has no idea...

[dinagam]

About time he started writing his version of The Iliad and The Odyssey...

[cdnmatt]

Ok, this is just beyond stupid. This is about as retarded as arguing with someone as to whether or not Trump is a liar. Really, you guys are calling me out as I liar because I mentioned I'm currently poor? What?!?!? First, I've mentioned that several times in the past while. Second, doesn't it go the other way around? If I was a liar, wouldn't I be bragging about how rich I am?

This is simply stupid. Now just watch, in 6 months after the upcoming winter season people will be bitching, "you said you were poor 6 months ago, so how can you afford this or that trip?!?!?".
Now that we're here, I'm curious. Back in your mid-30s, how much did you have saved for a rainy day? How long were you capable of going without earning a single dollar? I was able to go about 10 months. How about you?

Idiots...

[goji]

Agree with Arsenal. Bitcoin has had a very big bubble, so anyone holding it should be sitting on large gains. At the moment. When it all pops, that's a different matter.

I've never had a credit card cloned in Thailand, possibly because I always pay cash. I have had one cloned in Birmingham(UK), but I deserve what I get for using it in a shit hole like that. The only time it left my sight was on the other side of the counter in a petrol filling station, staffed by non-indigenous types (not that this should probably matter).

[Nirish guy]

Really, you guys are calling me out as I liar because I mentioned I'm currently poor? .

Define "currently" then for us all perhaps as it was only a month or two ago that you were telling us about you were thinking of buying Leo a Thailand Elite membership ( 500k baht minimum cost) to help him with his visa issues and you didn't just as he'd said he didn't want one.

So you'll excuse us idiots for not knowing what the fuck you're talking about when one minute you're implying that you are / you have been living quite comfortably for a several years there now - and if so then by extension assuming you'd saved even a tiny amount you MUST be doing ok / very well now money wise seeing as how you tell us you only ever get paid in Bitcoin and it of course has rocketed over all that time - but then you also say that you are "currently "poor" ? So, which is it to be - Rockefeller or Pauper - either one is fine of course, but it might help to be consistent when telling us these things so that us "idiots" can keep up.

And in case you're still missing the point let me repeat Arsenals words - which are fairly clear and concise and make perfect sense to most of us idiots I'm sure if not you it seems ....." A $ paid in Bitcoin 4 years ago is worth about 100 times as much today and 10 times as much as just a year ago. So, unless you've spent every penny, your surplus earnings should be worth a considerable amount. Anything else doesn't make sense"

[cdnmatt]

It's called long-term future thinking. Your frontal cortex fully developers to that stage at around the age of 22.

Remember, I work in the online software industry. Things move quick.

[cdnmatt]

Back on topic though. Trying to determine where your card# was stolen due to where you used it simply doesn't work.

There's a good chance you forgot about that Google or Apple account that has your card# attached to it. There's a chance you made an online purchase with it without remembering. There's a chance someone walked past you with a RFID reader, and grabbed your details. Or someone could have just downloaded one of the thousands of CC# generator programs out there, and your number was the lucky one. Sorry to break it to you, but those CC#s are based on a mathematical algorithm, and can quite easily be reverse engineered.

There's loads of different ways your CC# could have been grabbed.

[Nirish guy]

Except it wasn't long term future thinking of course as you stated quite clearly you were living comfortably and doing well work / business and money wise many times, so that money, paid in Bitcoin as you told us, must then have rocketed - but yet you're "poor" now ...... na, sorry doesn't compute - even in your fast moving computer programming world there. I call bullshit - either then or now ( or both). Anyway yes back on topic then, as you obviously don't have any more to add that would make your claims, either then or now make any further sense - to us idiots.

[latintopxxx]

matty boy...the tales u weave..supposedly financially comfy..in your 30's...living in a massive compound with 2 large dogs...Leo...blind...I suspect u r a miserable pinch faced pensioner living in a boarding house subsisting on baked beans.

[arsenal]

You've been rumbled on this Bitcoin nonsense Matt so probably best to just let it die.
You also wrote.
Bitcoin is useless? In the past hour just sitting here as a blind idiot I did:

"- Deposited 2 months of rent into a Thai bank account
- Paid Leo's mother back the little he owed her by depositing in her Laos bank account
- Paid my hosting server bill
- Had a good chunk of money sent via Western Union for Leo to pick up, so we have money for daily living
- Ordered a couple bank cards, so we can finally cut out the Western Union bullshit, and I can just put the money on the cards we can use at any ATM instead
- Oh, and registered a domain name

All with bitcoin, and all from sitting here in my bed in my underwear. And all in about an hour."

This too is remarkable. For most of us, even with excellent working vision it would take us an hour to do any one of those things and certainly not from a bed. Few people buy more online flights/book hotel rooms than I do and yet I still take my time to make sure it's absolutely correct as mistakes can be difficult to rectify. So for a blind man it must be so much harder. One can only take one's hat off to you sir. A true trouper.

[FarangRuMak]

I'm told that you can buy Skim-proof wallets now.
Lining your wallet with aluminium foil works as well or so I'm told.

[frequent]

I'm told that you can buy Skim-proof wallets now.
Lining your wallet with aluminium foil works as well or so I'm told.Remote credit card skimming by walking past RFID skimmers in public places is one of those false science urban myths that fattens the pockets of the real scammers - those who promise they can help you prevent it by paying them ridiculous amounts of money* - http://www.omniscienceisbliss.org/rfid.html

I'm not remotely surprised to find Matt writing about such things as if they are facts. After all, he once wrote that a bank that finds its customers accessing their site via a VPN will cut off access

* ridiculous amount of money is anything greater than a penny

Remember, I work in the online software industry. Things move quick.Yes, we haven't forgotten. Originally providing support services to porn sites, you moved on to internet security with a line of multinationals beating a path to your door in rural Thailand, where they showered you with bitcoin. Yes, we haven't forgotten

[MiniMee]

In the past hour just sitting here as a blind idiot I did:"- Deposited 2 months of rent into a Thai bank account- Paid Leo's mother back the little he owed her by depositing in her Laos bank account- Paid my hosting server bill- Had a good chunk of money sent via Western Union for Leo to pick up, so we have money for daily living- Ordered a couple bank cards, so we can finally cut out the Western Union bullshit, and I can just put the money on the cards we can use at any ATM instead- Oh, and registered a domain nameAll with bitcoin, and all from sitting here in my bed in my underwear. And all in about an hour." I can do all those things in less than an hour too, sitting in my own bed, even without underwear. I just use my regular on-line bank account with funds in $.

[FarangRuMak]

+Frequent.
Thanks for the info.
The link confirms that the use of aluminium foil inhibits RFID.
I accept that what ever info is transmitted may not be very compromising.
I had in mind my card being read on trains etc at very close quarters by hidden devices carried by fellow passengers.
Being skimmed while walking past a bank machine is not what I had in mind but I can see it's perfect for Urban Myth culture.
A common Urban Myth in Pattaya is the one whereby the boy from Planet Romeo is a balding 36 year McDonald's fed heavyweight instead of the slim smiling 18 year old stunner in the photo. Never happened of course.

[Moses]

About reading bank card from the distance. Yes. It is possible to read. And: No - it is not possible to steal money by this method.


Bank cards work in different way than usual transport cards or RFID cards (ID cards). Chip on bank card has unusual strong military grade cryptography and uses personal key what been written in it memory at time of manufacturing. It is NOT possible to read this key from card: manufacturer burns conductors what been used for writing right after key been written into memory of the chip .

Every time when you are using card, answer from chip to your bank is different and never repeats. Answer includes time, amount of money, unical ID or reader, unical ID of owner of reader. Answer is crypted by key from card's memory (see above) and only bank's server can decrypt it. If skimmer will sniff answer from chip from your card it will be useless: since they can't decrypt answer, also it will be too late to use this answer via their own channel to your bank. Pay attention: they also need to know what bank is your to have prepared connection to send answer to bank immediately.

About distance: distance for reading may be quite big (relatively): chip uses passive technology and power of answer depends on power of "question": electro-magnetic wave emitted by reader makes electrical current in chip and makes possible operation. SO if skimmer will emit quite strong EM wave answer from chip will be quite strong also. At real life it can be up to 2-3 meters without danger to burn all cards around (mobile phones and cardio-implants as well). But they still have to know your bank name, and at most cases your pin-code as well. But main sophisticated problem is to filter all answers for to find answer from your card (reminder: all answers are crypted and is not possible to filter signal by it content).

Resume: it is really-really difficult and expensive to make skimming on the go, besides price of equipment is is question of size of equipment: it is about 2 cubic meters. Reading magnetic strip and stealing your pin-code is still most popular method - they will clone your card in a few seconds and then immediately use it in another country . But for to read magnetic strip on your card they need physical contact with it.

[bkkguy]

Lining your wallet with aluminium foil works as well or so I'm told.

aren't you supposed to bend the foil into a hat shape and put it on your head so THEY can't read your mind to get you CC number

bkkguy

[FarangRuMak]

aren't you supposed to bend the foil into a hat shape and put it on your head so THEY can't read your mind to get you CC number

bkkguy
I'll get the guy that told me to pm you. It's got nothing to do with me, can you not see that?

[cdnmatt]

You've been rumbled on this Bitcoin nonsense Matt so probably best to just let it die.

Sorry, but just because you're unwilling to use the technology that's available to you doesn't mean it's not ther. The online payments were obviously easy, and same as PayPal checkout, except you get redirtected to BitPay instead. From there, funded my localbitcoins.com account, and fired off a few trades. You can see who's online same as a dating app, so you get responded to almost immediately. Within minutes the money was in the Thai and Laos bank accounts available to the recipients, plus I had a message from some dude in Kenya saying he's on his way to Western Union. About 90 mins later, he popped back online with the MTCN#, etc.

Plus I don't have to worry about fraud charges like latin anymore, which same as all card holders I think, has happened to me before too. I also don't have to worry about PayPal freezing my funds for 180 days, or until I provide further ID, or whatever, as that's happened to me before too. I also don't have to worry about my bank freezing my account, which has also happened. I actually haven't had a bank account in about 1 year now. They expired my debit card on me, so I called them, and some retard at a call center somewhere in Canada decided she couldn't authenticate me over the phone, so froze my account and tole me to visit the branch in person. Well, that would be fine, except for the fact the Pacific Ocean happens to be in between myself and the nearest branch. So fuck it, I guess I just don't get a bank account for the time being, which is fine with me, because it's no longer needed in this world.

Not to mention, it's going to be great once those debit cards come. When Leo is back in Laos, if an emergency comes up and he needs extra cash right away, I'll be able to flip funds onto his card within 30 seconds right here from my computer.

I'm sorry, but for a secure, efficient, and flexible payment medium, you're not going to beat bitcoin. Obviously I'm not the only one who thinks that, otherwise it wouldn't have a current market cap of $79 billion!




@NIrish -- Yes, we're comfortable, but not rich. I think I've said that probably 300 times on this forum now, mainly because people like you keep putting words in my mouth. A while back I even started a thread regarding monthly expenditures, as quite obviously we were tightening our belt then. I was curious as to whether or not we're expensive and doing something wrong, but nope, turns out we're on par with all the other expats. About 80,000 baht/month is about what it costs to live a comfortable life in Thailand.

[frequent]

I can do all those things in less than an hour too, sitting in my own bed, even without underwear. I just use my regular on-line bank account with funds in $.But you lack the frisson of knowing that you're part of the aristocracy of the Internet, the Bitcoin users - scammers, blackmailers, drug dealers, pornographers and organised crime. Get with the program, MiniMee!
... and same as PayPal checkout ...Ah yes, PayPal, friend to eBay merchants and money launderers everywhere - but not of much use to Joe Public

[latintopxxx]

...too complicated...I use regular credit card...stick with mainstream currencies...check my account daily...am covered if I report any evil doers within 24 hour....why would i go all exotic with bit(coins) and pieces...

[cdnmatt]

Up to you, but if you didn't want to worry about fraudulent charges anymore, the technology is now available.

Oh, and to add to my list of above grievances, I also had a merchant account with Moneris Solutions closed on my before too. They're basically THE only card processor in Canada, plus have a good presence in the US. If you're a business in Canada, you have a Moneris account.

That one was bullshit as well, because there was no warning or discussion, and I just woke up one morning to find out I can no longer process orders. Upon calling them, they basically just told me to politely go fuck myself, and weren't open to discussion at all. It was simply because the chargeback rate on my account went about 1%, so that was it.

That was bullshit. Any order that looked remotely suspicious, I would require them to fax / scan the front and back of the card before processing the order, so I'm sure fraud was virtually non-existent as I was very careful about that. It was simply because instead of asking for a refund from me, people would just call their bank and reverse the charge instead. Well, fuck... I can't be held responsible for that. If they would have just asked me for a refund, I would have given them one. It's not my fault they decided to contact their bank instead of me.

Another one of the many bullshit things I'll never have to worry about again thanks to bitcoin. :)

[arsenal]

Matt wrote.
" Another one of the many bullshit things I'll never have to worry about again thanks to bitcoin."

I'm sure the pyramid people (not the Egyptians), Ponzi scheme shareholders and the old lady waiting for the guy in Nigeria to send her the cash all said the same thing.

[latintopxxx]

https://www.cryptmarkets.com/news/if-you-bought-5-dollars-of-bitcoin-7-years-ago?trkid=4E493878594378534F6B6E4B37415A4966517158 73515F33445F3344&utm_source=World&utm_content=A+Norwegian+man+is+the+new+member+of+t he+Bitcoin+Millionaires%E2%80%99+club&utm_medium=NZ+Herald+%28APN%29&utm_term=0061400355820d26f14fb9c6cf695b3d88&utm_campaign=001b59f0a84ea04b7e65e3f92c8e093bc8&utm_id=x2

OMG...he might be blind (supposedly) and soon to be homeless (best get a card board box and book a spot under a bridge)...but look..he was right about bit coin...gasp shock horror...

[Nirish guy]

I think that is the very point that Arsenal and myself were trying to make there earlier LT, but as I see it's gotten brushed over by Matt just as to how he's the only perhaps who DIDn't make a killing with his comfortable lifestyle there over the past 5 years or so we'll just move on just I guess ........

[latintopxxx]

damn..theres me not paying attention again...

[Joachim]

Cryptocurrencies are Ponzi schemes