Haggling

[colmx]

I was reading a thread on Bangkok markets on an Irish Travel forum earlier and the subject of haggling came up

One of the local experts posted "you should aim to pay just over one third of the opening asking price so bid just under a fifth. If you spoke Thai you'd pay a quarter or less but that's life"

In 17 years of visiting Thailand I have never seen people haggling the price down this low and feel that it's bullshit advice to give to a newbie.

My understanding is that a market in Thailand is not like a Chinese market where you have to play a ridiculous to-and-fro game to agree a fair price. I have seen Russian and Arab women aggressively haggling and offering 30B for a t-shirt that is labelled at 150B on Threpassit market, much to the disgust of the stallholders.

I am not really one for haggling, I prefer an air-con mall with fixed prices! The BF does haggle, but the most I have ever seen him get would be to knock 10B off a 200B t-shirt or 50B off a 500B jacket/shoes.

Do you haggle? And if so what kind of discount do you get?
In your opinion are the Armchair experts on the Irish Travel forum giving good or bad advice?

And LatinTop before you say it: Haggling a boy down to 250B from his initial offering of 1000B is not what I am talking about!

[cdnmatt]

From my experience, you don't haggle here. Like you said, maybe you can get them down 10 baht or something, but for all intents and purposes, you're paying the advertised rate. It's not like they're massively inflating the prices anyway, and they're working on fairly tight margins as is.

Now places like Kuala Lumpur, ok, then you haggle. In places like that they try to sell cheap knock offs for the same price as the genuinne brand name prices, so you can get them down to even 20% of what they first say.

From my experience though, Thailand doesn't work like that.

[RonanTheBarbarian]

I haven't bought much in the line of souvenirs, t-shirts etc, in Thailand, but I have found that it can vary.

For instance, I found that in Samui and Patpong markets, they seemed a lot quicker to come down than in price, say, stalls in the Krabi area or some in Pattaya.

I remember once bargaining a fake Rolex seller on Patpong down around 40 or 50%, partly due I think because he sensed that I was ambivalent about buying it (I usually but a cheap wristwatch but I it was one of my first trips to Thailand and I was tempted mainly because getting a fake Rolex was "one of the things you do" when you go to Thailand)

Needless to say it lasted about 5 days, so whatever i paid, it was too much!

Also on Samui, they were quicker to come down in the evening markets, where the clientele were nearly all tourists.

Whereas I remember trying to buy a t-shirt at the market in Pattaya (mostly Thai customers) and they were very reluctant to come down much and seemed to be somewhat irritated by my attempt to bargain.

I wonder is there an understanding hat in touristy outdoor markets that initial offer is a bit outrageous and maybe bargaining is "part of the experience", but there is less of an expectation of big reductions in more normal markets, and thus more realistic prices to start.

Just my theory on very little evidence...

[latintopxxx]

colmx u r far too precious...and BTW a MB is also a commodity to be bought and sold...so also applicable.

[MiniMee]

As noted by both colmx and cdnmatt, there is not much room for haggling when buying tee-shirts, underwear (sexy or otherwise) or other basic items from markets. The standard price of a tee-shirt is loi gau gau baht and has been for years. Underwear is usually 100 baht or 6 for 500 etc. It is when buying fake designer goods like watches, bags and sunglasses that outrageous starting prices are asked and serious haggling is required. Years ago vendors in Phuket would ask 800 or more for 'branded' sunglasses, but these days they accept the game is up and plastic shades of any shape and with any applied logo can be had for 100 baht, even with polarized lenses.

[DrewSpz]

I want to hear more about MB haggling as well. BECAUSE- whenever I go to Pattaya, 2 times now (about to go again), the mamasans even at Sunee always tell me 1500 for everything. Is it because I'm a young (ish at 31) American? Or do I need to haggle more? Thanks peeps.

[Yraen]

My two-cents worth. Asking for a discount (including here in Oz) is always acceptable (but always with a grin and a laugh). That said, there are Thai places where you bargain and others where it is a waste of time.

Thai sellers have learned that foreign tourists are used to paying fixed prices in their home country. And the Thai are quick to copy. :) So, in department stores and similar, you will be asked for a fixed price (even if it is 'outrageous') and if you want the product, you pay. In other venues you can bargain the price.

Question time: When you travel, don't you seek out the lowest airline price or the 4-star hotel that is willing to be bargained down to 50%. Most of us do it all of the time in one way or another. It largely depends on whether you enjoy asking for and getting a discount. At home I usually try-on for a "seniors discount" - sometimes I win, sometimes not - haircuts, lunches, apparel, anywhere I feel there is a chance.

Then I go to Thailand or South East Asia where bargaining is a way of life and it is a fun-game that sellers and buyers regularly play. (That's one of the reasons that every seller I know has a calculator handy. <grin> ) If you bargain you may get somewhere near the correct retail price and the seller still makes a good profit. If you don't bargain, the seller laughs all the way to the bank - "silly farang, he pay too much".

Normally, I would not buy "silk" products in Bangkok or any of the other major cities. Last November, some friends and I were touring in the Golden Triangle. In a small road-side market out in "nowhere" we were attracted by a thermal fountain. So we stopped for lunch and took a walk around. We found some beautiful silk shirts (even silk on the roll). The aficionado among us declared the silk "real", but the first asking price was a turn-off. So I started to play the bargaining game. ":Oiy. Expensiiivvve. I poor <grin>" etc etc (having just driven up in a huge 4WD Pajaero). The final price was 30-40% of the first asking prices (depending on the size of the garment) - they were happy to sell 10-12 shirts and we were happy with the price that we paid. In the meantime, buyers and sellers had a lot of fun and laughs.

[FarangRuMak]

Thais can be very stubborn when it comes to charging especially in renting out property.
I have seen shop houses and apartments locked up for years because of high rental charges.
I think that many of the Thai-Chinese property owners are wallowing in a lot of old money and can afford to hold out for their asking price.
In the markets I find that if you start haggling in Thai you generally get quoted pretty close to the selling price because they know immediately that you're not fresh from Farangland.
Anyone who's prepared to hand over their money without question will of course be helped to do so.
Thailand is not unique in this.
I buy an occasional Authentic Beach Rolex for friends of mine at home from the same guy.
The price is usually around 1800 baht.
But I've seen him get as high as 7000 baht for the same type of watch.

[Nirish guy]

^ You're being robbed, I pay 1000 - and even then I've a funny feeling that "I'm" being robbed too !!!!

[a447]

Some boys have told me they can get one for 500 baht.


That's one of the reasons that every seller I know has a calculator handy.

Another reason is so they don't have to say the price out loud so other farang can hear. That's why you see them use the calculator in the Patpong market. Bystanders do not get to hear the final price the seller accepted.

I hate bargaining with a passion.

Years ago I want for a drive out into the countryside in Bali. We came across a "cultural centre" selling Balinese handicrafts. I saw a beautiful tablecloth. The girl wanted $40. I was encouraged to bargain with her by my friends and eventually got the price down to $20. I was exhausted!

She wrapped it up and handed it to me. I smiled at her and gave her the original $40. She was over the moon. So was I because I still thought it was cheap.

When I unwrapped it in the hotel I found it had a huge hole in it!!

I haven't bargained since then. I was really pissed off that I had done the right thing by her, but she still thought it ok to rip me off.

As there is nothing at the markets that I'm interested in, I have no need to bargain.

[Nirish guy]

If your time line is correct in the above your problem was that you gave her the 40 AFTER she'd wrapped it when she obviously thought you'd haggled down to 20 and was thinking 'well fuck him then" so gave you the one with the hole in it - alternatively we're both probably giving her too much credit as being a nice person who plays by the rules of decency as you were of course a tourist, which generally in any country means it's quite accept no actively encouraged to rip you off as they'll never see you again. I hope at the very least you can end your story with the line "but fuck her as the 40 I gave here were all fake notes anyway and then at least the balance between seller rip off merchant and fuck over the seller tourist will have been resumed and the universe and carry on as before ! :-)

Oh and yes, you're absolutely right re the 500 for the watch, I've been told that before too by the boys, hence my comment about me knowing I was done over too.

[latintopxxx]

I dont mind haggling...can be fun..battle of the wits...if we all haggled we wouldnt end up with USD1500 iphones.....and some of u wouldnt end up with BHT2500 MB

[FarangRuMak]

^ You're being robbed, I pay 1000 - and even then I've a funny feeling that "I'm" being robbed too !!!!
Fcuk.
Going by the a444 post I'm being screwed.
The dealer keeps telling me that I'm a special customer;
I know now what he means.

[christianpfc]

We have to distinguish markets aimed at tourists (subject of the OP), markets aimed at locals, goods of daily life (basic clothes, food), services (not subject of the OP).


I was reading a thread on Bangkok markets on an Irish Travel forum earlier and the subject of haggling came up

One of the local experts posted "you should aim to pay just over one third of the opening asking price so bid just under a fifth. If you spoke Thai you'd pay a quarter or less but that's life"

In 17 years of visiting Thailand I have never seen people haggling the price down this low and feel that it's bullshit advice to give to a newbie.

I once made the mistake of buying a watch on Patpong night market (that was around 2010 when I was new to Thailand, and just drowned my watch in a Jacuzzi in a sauna). The asking price was 500 THB, I got it down to 250, and later found such watches are sold in local markets for 100. So you can get the same item for 1/5 of the price ELSEWHERE. (The watch started to disassemble while I was still in Thailand, and with some repairs I could make it work a few months longer.)

I once took a Thai friend to Patpong night market, he had an interest in some items there, but quickly gave up asking for prices because even when negotiated down to half it would be too expensive - maybe we should have split so he isn't seen as accompanying a Farang, but I doubt that would have helped.


Then I go to Thailand or South East Asia where bargaining is a way of life and it is a fun-game that sellers and buyers regularly play. (That's one of the reasons that every seller I know has a calculator handy. <grin> )

I think this is a common misconception. Bargaining is not way of life, it was invented do overcharge tourists! I have not observed haggling on markets frequented by locals. Usually everything has a price label. When someone pulls out a calculator to type in a price you know you are being taken for a ride!

For me it's not fun, it's not a game, it's a waste of everyone's time!
I despise haggling, if the price is not clearly displayed, I go somewhere else.

I walk through those tourist markets (Patpong, Silom, Chatuchak, Chiang Mai night market) only for entertainment and apart from that watch above and sexy underwear in Silom (strangely, the cheapest place at 100 THB per piece, the same costs 120-200 elsewhere) don't buy there. Most of the stuff (souvenirs, home decoration, T-shirts with prints I wouldn't wear), I have no use for anyway.

[goji]

I want to hear more about MB haggling as well. BECAUSE- whenever I go to Pattaya, 2 times now (about to go again), the mamasans even at Sunee always tell me 1500 for everything. Is it because I'm a young (ish at 31) American? Or do I need to haggle more? Thanks peeps.

1 They may remember you.

2 If you ask the mamasans, it shows you don't know the going rate. This is a major error. Never ask the mamasans & even if it were your first visit to Thailand, don't tell them that. You should figure out what the going rate is from these boards, then if the boys bring up the subject of money, tell them what you will pay.


As for negotiating prices in the shops, well if there is no price displayed, I always assume some haggling would be required.

[DrewSpz]

How about Bar off fees... 400 Baht?

[Steve1903]

Keep it simple. You see a thing then decide how much you'd be willing to pay for it. Then ask, how much? If it is less then buy it, if it is more then offer what it is worth to you. If they don't want to sell at that price then walk away.

[NitNoi]

In my experience, a calculator is NOT a red flag - it helps avoid confusion with mispronounced numbers. You can also use their calculator to enter your offer.

[latintopxxx]

reason I like haggling is that it's like a game of poker, u need to watch the body language, try and guess/anticipate what the other is going to do/say....I always know what the real cost at home is..so have only very rarely been caught off guard...and when I do I'm happy as its a lesson learnt.
When it comes to MB..I particularly enjoy bargaining for their services..as its very personal and in a way demeaning....well known thats my kink...so no apologies...complete turn on to beat his price down then take him into the glamour of the sukhothai hotel and show him that a bottle of wine out of the mini bar costs more than 3 hours on his arse....

[scottish-guy]

... and 1000 times what anybody would pay for yours seeing as it probably hangs down like a festoon curtain?

:D

[Smiles]

My take (vast!) on the hagglin' game goes generally like this. Firstly I only haggle at the beach and lots of Thai markets.
Start at 20% off. They will take a pouting offence and laugh. Then I offer 10-15% off and some seconds later I walk off having haggled an OK 12%. Big deal.
If I'm in the mood I'll haggle, if not I pay full price plus a small tip.

Once I tried haggling at Bangkok Paragon (just for fun) and was leered at in disdain. Covered my tracks by "just joking ha ha ha".

[latintopxxx]

Omg at the paragon ....very brave of u.

[a447]

I would never dream of haggling at Siam Paragon, but in some of the watch shops there they'll quickly offer a 20% discount if you hesitate or tell them its too expensive.

Same same in Central Festival watch department in Pattaya.

Like sexually, prices in Thailand department stores can be 'fluid".

[latintopxxx]

Ha...as far as I can tell not only is sexuality fluid but what they are prepared and willing to do for cash.
I have miraculously convinced many a straight "man" to bottom.