Monthly living costs

[cdnmatt]

I put together a list of approximately what we spend each month living up in Issan in that other finances thread. Revised it though, and since that other thread is about holidays, thought I'd start a new thread for expats who live here. Here's my revised list:

12,000 - Rent
6000 - Electric & water
20,000 - Food
7000 - Once per-month Central shopping trip
3000 - Leo's daily spend at local markets (sticky rice, boo-bing, papaya, snails, etc.)
10,000 - Other market shopping (shrimp, chicken, pork, veggies, rice, sauces,etc.)
9000 - Dogs
2000 - Dry food
4000 - Hot meals (~8 meals/month @ 500/meal)
2000 - Treats
1000 - Shampoo, Frontline
8000 - Alcohol, cigs
12,000 - Leo
4000 - Entertainment (restaurant 2 times/month)
15,000 - Misc

TOTAL: 86,000/month

There, that seems more on point. I'm curious, any other expats willing to share their monthly living costs? I wouldn't mind having something to compare to. I see these videos on Youtube titled with things like, "live for $300/month in Chiang Mai", and I can't even fathom how that's remotely possible. We live comfortably and everything, but we're hardly living the high life here. If I had to categorize our social standing, I would say lower middle class.

I'm thinking of things I could cut, but can't really see anything. Obviously I could quit drinking, but no, I like my alcohol. We could quit using A/C, giving the dogs hot meals, ang give up things like strawberries, peaches, parmesan cheese, shrimp, salmon steak, and so on, but no, I don't want to cut any of that either. I think I just need to start making more money. Hmmm...

Any other expats willing to share their monthly living expenses?

[goji]

Thanks. For someone who intends becoming an expat, that's interesting to read.

As for where you can save money:
36000 baht on food, excluding your 2 restaurant trips ?
I'm spending comfortably under half that in the UK. I don't measure it precisely, but since the grocery shop varies between 30 pounds & 100, & I don't even go every week, I figure my spend must be below 13,000 baht a month.
You have 2 people, but Laos boys don't over eat & local style food in Thailand should be cheap.

No medical insurance ?

The dogs cost 75% of what Leo costs.....

[cdnmatt]

Nope, no medical insurance. I'm only 35, and can't afford it anyway. Going blind tends to take a hit on your fances. I'll worry about it later when I'm older and/or wealthy again.

Where did you get 36,000 for good? It's about 20,000/month, which is about right. We could cut that a decent amount I guess, but would have to give up various things like strawberries, peaches, plums, parmasen cheese, sour cream, swiss cheese, BBQ sauce, sirloin steak, ground beef, salmon, and so on. And no, I don't want to eat like some poor college student, and enjoy cooking up proper curries, stir-fyrs, paste dishes, steak dishes, chicken cordon bleu, etc.

Sure, the dogs aren't cheap, but that's simply what they cost. If they were fat I'd cut back on their diet, but they're far from fat, and are just strong and healthy. That's simply how much they eat, so not much I can do about that.

Then no car or motorbike, so that cuts out that expense. If you're planning to retire here, your rent will probably be quite a bit more than mine. Either that, or you'll be in a small studio / 1bdrm apartment. Obviously, that's assuming you're going to move somewhere like Pattaya, Bangkok or Phuket. If you move up to Issan though, then rent is quite cheap. You can get a nice, unfurnished say 4bdrm, 2 bath, 2 storey house for 5000/month if wanted. But when they advertise unfurnished here, they mean unfurnished. That means no mirros, fans, A/C, cupboards, fridge, or anything else.

Then misc can't get cut, because there's always things to pay for. Maybe the AC/s need cleaning, one of the dogs needs to visit the hopital, need to apply for a new passport, replacement screen for an iPhone, need some new clotes, towels, dishes, etc. Then other things like cell phone top-ups, gardener, haircuts, soap, etc. Then of course the occasional larger purchase of a new computer, phone, sofa, or whatever.

Then I don't want to give up our dinner dates. Granted, we could just go to a night market and eat 30 baht plates of shit, but no, if I'm taking my honey out for dinner, we're getting dressed up and going somewhere decent. And we rarely go out together, because it's a pain haulding the blind guy around town, so I don't want to give up our couple dinner dates a month.

Yeah, I think that's just what it costs to live a half-decent life up here. We're not living the high-life up here or anything, but we're comfortable enough.

[kittyboy]

I put together a list of approximately what we spend each month living up in Issan in that other finances thread. Revised it though, and since that other thread is about holidays, thought I'd start a new thread for expats who live here. Here's my revised list:

12,000 - Rent
6000 - Electric & water
20,000 - Food
7000 - Once per-month Central shopping trip
3000 - Leo's daily spend at local markets (sticky rice, boo-bing, papaya, snails, etc.)
10,000 - Other market shopping (shrimp, chicken, pork, veggies, rice, sauces,etc.)
9000 - Dogs
2000 - Dry food
4000 - Hot meals (~8 meals/month @ 500/meal)
2000 - Treats
1000 - Shampoo, Frontline
8000 - Alcohol, cigs
12,000 - Leo
4000 - Entertainment (restaurant 2 times/month)
15,000 - Misc

TOTAL: 86,000/month

There, that seems more on point. I'm curious, any other expats willing to share their monthly living costs? I wouldn't mind having something to compare to. I see these videos on Youtube titled with things like, "live for $300/month in Chiang Mai", and I can't even fathom how that's remotely possible. We live comfortably and everything, but we're hardly living the high life here. If I had to categorize our social standing, I would say lower middle class.

I'm thinking of things I could cut, but can't really see anything. Obviously I could quit drinking, but no, I like my alcohol. We could quit using A/C, giving the dogs hot meals, ang give up things like strawberries, peaches, parmesan cheese, shrimp, salmon steak, and so on, but no, I don't want to cut any of that either. I think I just need to start making more money. Hmmm...

Any other expats willing to share their monthly living expenses?


Hey-Thanks for sharing your monthly expenses.
It helps me get a better picture of what I would need if and when I retire to Thailand.
I also was looking at your food spending!! You spend on whatever you spend but your food spending does seem quite high relative to cost of food in thailand.
Not criticizing seriously trying to get a mental picture of what I would need to spend.

Thanks for the insights.

[FarangRuMak]

Thanks for sharing this.
I did a rough tally and figured out that if you got rid of Leo and the dogs your monthly costs would be B68,000.
I'm not saying you should but these are costs which pertain to your case in particular.
I'm allowing an extra B2000 towards Leo's consumption of normal food outside of the snails etc.
I'm also ascribing all the "dry food" to the dogs and none of it to Leo.
Thanks again for giving us a template to measure against.

[Dodger]

Great post Matt.

My living expenses in Bang Saray total about 73,000 THB/month and that includes fairly frequent visits to nearby Pattaya.

I own versus rent and pay an average of 800 baht/month for electric. Water is included in my annual condo maintenance fee. My boyfriend and I eat like kings for 1,000 bt/day. He does the market thing and cooks the majority of his own meals. Sometimes I eat with him - and sometimes I eat at a local farang restaurant.

73,000 baht/month includes daily stops at 7/11, gas for my motorbike, cleaning supplies (we have a washing machine and ironing board and do all of our own laundry), health insurance @ 32,000 bt/year and all those odds & ends that come along. Our hobbies are free: He is a fashion designer and spends most of his days drawing and/or painting and I enjoy writing song lyrics, playing my guitar, daily visits to the the fitness room, lounging around the pool or beach in the afternoons, etc. all of which of course are free.

For years I've heard about farangs spending 200,000 baht/month to live over here to have to assume it's all being donated to the boys.

[scottish-guy]

..if I'm taking my honey out for dinner, we're getting dressed up and going somewhere decent..

That's what you think.

For all you'd know Leo could be dressed in a T shirt, shorts and sandals and taking you to eat at the Salvation Army.

:D

[cdnmatt]

Get rid of Leo and the dogs? Yeah, that's quite obviously not going to happen. For one, I've taken care of my dogs ever since they were all of 6 inches long, and I love them like my own children. Then Leo has saved my life twice now to be exact, and provides me with the emotional support and love necessary to keep me pushing forward in this life, so don't think I'll get rid of him either.

If you look at my post history, you'll see I disappeared for a few days just recently. Yeah, I wasn't exactly on vacation. Leo's love brought me back though, and I'm back to pushing forward.

Granted, if I truly wanted I could drop our food bill down to say 3000/month, as 100/day is all that's really needed to provide us with enough sustinence to stay alive. But who the hell wants to eat like that? It might be a cool experience for the first while, but after a while you get tired of that shit food, and want to begin eating proper, nutrisious meals again. Besides, investing in good food probably saves on hospital trips.

[cdnmatt]

That's what you think.

For all you'd know Leo could be dressed in a T shirt, shorts and sandals and taking you to eat at the Salvation Army.



Come on, what's even the point of a snide remark like that? Grow up.

[justaguy]

20.000 for food ? In Khon Kaen, my are you going out eating every night in those places near the Kosa Hotel ? I don't get it, eat the local stuff, it is heaps better than what you mentioned, and it doesn't cost a thing.

As to your rent, even in BKK for that kind of money, I can easily find a one bedroom near a skytrain or MRT station.

[Smiles]

6000 baht for electricity and water?
In Hua Hin it's an average of 2000 baht a month. We have ~ I would guess ~ pretty much the same energy-sucking items as you.
You're electric dildoe(s) are battery driven I assume.

[FarangRuMak]

"Get rid of Leo and the dogs?" You misunderstood me- I didn't say that. I meant that Leo and the dogs are costs specific to your case and their combined financial burden can be omitted from many or maybe most expat cases.

[Dodger]

One of the advantages of owning versus renting is that you don't pay inflated fees for electricity. The current rate in Chonburi is B4.41 per KWH (Kilo Watt Hour)and I have friends who are renters who pay double and sometimes triple this rate to the their building owners who of course pocket the profits.

I plan to install a water purification system in my unit in September to eliminate the task of buying water every day and also reduce the cost. This may sound ridiculous but at B14 per liter X 3 liters per day comes to B23,000/year which almost covers the cost of my health insurance policy.

Investing in a washing machine saves me another B15,000/year (B300/week).

It all adds up.

Matt, if you're paying B6,000/month for electric somethings wrong.

[justaguy]

That depends, not sure how big his place is, and how many airco units it has. But having a couple of airco's blasting at full speed for the whole month, could easily cost about 6000 baht. And you are not paying inflated rates per KWH. In Bangkok the average is about 5 baht per KWH, but with two airco's running almost all the time, I am certain that amount is achieved easily, especially if the airco units are a bit older.

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, Leo and myself have separate bedrooms, and both like our A/C. Mine is on about 24x7, while sleeping I crank it down to 18C, and while awake put it up to about 27C. Then Leo is the same as me, although uses the A/C a little more sparingly. However, he likes me, and enjoys it cold when he sleeps, so cranks it down then as well. That, and Smiles lives in Hua Hin so has the advantage of the cool breeze from the ocean.

Anyway, Smiles, want to maybe share what Pot and yourself spend a month in Hua Hin? I'm curious, and considering the replies, so are others who are looking towards Thailand as a retirement location.

[goji]

Where did you get 36,000 for food? .

I presumed all the following is food:

20,000 – Food
10,000 - Other market shopping (shrimp, chicken, pork, veggies, rice, sauces,etc.)
2000 - Dry food
4000 - Hot meals (~8 meals/month @ 500/meal)

Perhaps some other interpretation is required, since the original figures do not add up.

I would also get the dogs off the payroll.

[justaguy]

Yeah, Leo and myself have separate bedrooms, and both like our A/C. Mine is on about 24x7, while sleeping I crank it down to 18C, and while awake put it up to about 27C. Then Leo is the same as me, although uses the A/C a little more sparingly. However, he likes me, and enjoys it cold when he sleeps, so cranks it down then as well. That, and Smiles lives in Hua Hin so has the advantage of the cool breeze from the ocean.

Anyway, Smiles, want to maybe share what Pot and yourself spend a month in Hua Hin? I'm curious, and considering the replies, so are others who are looking towards Thailand as a retirement location.

Hmm, yes then I can understand your utility bill. However, isn't Leo your boyfriend, why on earth are you sleeping in separate bedrooms ?

Something doesn't add up.

[cdnmatt]

Because, a) I snore, and am assuming he doesn't want to listen to that all night, and b) I don't want him cuddling with me all night. I learned that little lesson from Kim. We've tried to sleep together a few times, but sure enough, he just keeps moving closer to cuddle with me in the middle of the night. Then I move away to have my own room on the matress, he moves closer to cuddle again, until I'm nearly falling off the bed. Then I have to wake up, move to the other side of the bed, but that doesn't work, because within 30 mins, he's back to cuddling with me, pushing me off the other side of the bed.

So fuck it, we sleep alone. :) That, and we're both similar in that way. We both genuinely love each other withough question, but at the same time, both like our own little private sanctuaries where we can hang out in our own little world, and be ourselves. Separate bedrooms provide for that.

That, and I never really wanted him as a BF. He's only 22, so too young for me I thought. Then again, I didn't want to go blind either, so fuck it, just what happened. Now it looks like we're stuck with each other in this life life, which life, which is fine with me. At the beginning though, he pursued me far more than I did him though.

[francois]

TOTAL: 86,000/month

Any other expats willing to share their monthly living expenses?

Same-same, about 90,000/month. Too lazy to itemize.

[Dodger]

You may want to consider buying a couple new AC units which now come equiped with invertor compressors which is a fairly new technology. These units cost a bit more up front but are extremely efficient and cut the rates down by as much as 60%. I purchased two last year for my 80 M2 condo and the monthly costs are less than I have paying for one older model AC in my 24 M2 rental unit in PTY.

Most Thais feed their dogs market leftovers including leftover rice, pork rinds, chicken, fish, etc. which doesn't cost them a penny. If it did, they would let someone else feed them. You may want to consider doing some research on healthy dog food alternatives to reduce the costs.

[cdnmatt]

Thanks Dodger, and great to see you around these parts. I miss those threads starting with "hey you maniacs" :)

Yeahm I would think about getting new A/C units, but it's not my house, and I don't think the owners like us much, so get fucked if I'm investing more into this house than I already have. If things work out as planned, we'll be in Chiang Mai shortly anyway.

On the topic of electric though, has anyone played around with the idea of Tesla Poweralls that came out a few years ago? They should be in full production mode by now. It's about $6000 USD for one wall mounted battery, but that battery can retain enough energy to power your average home for about 3 days. Then there's the additional initial investment of solar panels, which I'm sure isn't cheap. However, after that initial investment, your electric bill drops to 0 baht/month.

Anyone seriously look into that yet? Think I'll do so once we manage to get ourselves to Chiang Mai.

[Mickp]

Why dont you just use fans? Would be a lot lot cheaper !

[goji]

The Tesla battery will be like a phone battery. Fine when it's new, losing performance after about 2 years. The only question is how rapid is the rate of deterioration.

I imagine investments in insulation and direct solar powered aircon would work just fine in Thailand. When the sun is up, your solar powered aircon runs when it's most needed. Then your insulation keeps indoors cool. Maybe run the mains aircon for short periods at night if really necessary.

[cdnmatt]

What insulation? All the houses here are cement walls. Can't have dryall with insulation here due to the weather and humidity, not to mention termites.

[cdnmatt]

Why dont you just use fans? Would be a lot lot cheaper !


Would also be alot lot warmer. :)

Again, I think I should just figure out how to make more money again. :)

[Smiles]

" ... Anyway, Smiles, want to maybe share what Pot and yourself spend a month in Hua Hin? I'm curious, and considering the replies, so are others who are looking towards Thailand as a retirement location ... "
I've done that calculation at least three times on this board since living in HH. But not for some time I admit ... probably those long-ago posts have gone the way of the Dodo bird.
I don't budget anything here, we just live the life. So some thought would have to be put into that, and frankly it's a Dismal Science.
Maybe.

Meanwhile, as far as aircon is concerned ~ and it is certainly is a large part of anyone's set expenses ~ we do it differently ... it's on timer.
We sleep together, so only one room to cool down. One of us turns it on about half an hour before hitting the sack (20C), then put it on the timer for another hour (sometimes 2, but never more). Then it goes off for the rest of the night. (This routine can differ from winter to summer ... right now it's hot and humid here and we do that every night. From November through February we may not even turn the aircon on at all).
Both of us are quick to fall asleep, and normally we sleep through the night without waking up, even though the aircon has stopped.

The second bedroom has aircon but we never use it unless we have guests-staying-over.
Downstairs (i.e. kitchen, living/dining room, bathroom) is not aircon-ed, just fans. No complaints.

[Smiles]

OK, I'll bite. I'll even copy (with edits) your list, and it's apparently a No-Electric-Dildo Zone.

I've discarded you're silly parts: i.e. for your myriad of shopping listings I've put everything I buy under the one heading of "Food and Household Sundries". My "Entertainment" includes everything which is essentially frivolous spending which could well be a small amount one month, a large amount the following month ... and because of that always being a moveable feast, it's really difficult to give anything other than a good guess. Your list of 'eating stuff' is one heading: "Eating Out".



11,000 -- Rent
1,600 -- 2,100 -- Electric & Water (the water is an incredibly minor part: around 50+or-10 baht)
2,520 -- True TV, True Internet
12,000 -- Food & Household Sundries (this is a difficult one to guesstimate. Months change. Things come up. The unforeseen happens.)
4500 -- Household upkeep: clean air-conditioners twice yearly; clean water tank annualy; cleaning lady twice a month.
17,000 -- Eating out (Breakfasts always at home, dinner 90% out, lunch is negligible ... never for me, Suphot eats that on-the-road, his dime. I go to the beach on average 2 times a week where beer and food are a given. This is also a difficult guesstimate, but I think it would be close)
25,000? -- Entertainment (Movies out? Yes but seldom -- perhaps once every 3 months. Same for night clubs? Yes, but seldom. We go to one of two gay bars in town for some beer, relax, some pool tournaments about once a week. I go by myself if Pot has a night job ~ happens frequently and I save money :D. Trips to Bangkok and/or Jomtien or Surin every so often, about once every 4 months.)
366 -- Immigration & visa costs. (In fact these costs are annual (4400 baht), but always there, so I've divided the annual cost by 12)
10,000 -- Misc. Stuff (This 'Open Book' paragraph is intended to perhaps give some help and clarity to anyone who is thinking of moving permanently (or semi-permanently) to this fascinating country.
Sometimes I spend more than my monthly income, more often than not I have some left over. I carry on average about 300,000 to 400,000 in my Thai bank. Right now I will be having a tooth implant in September at Bangkok Hospital Hua Hin ... not cheap, but a third of what I'd pay in Canada. That payment will be coming out of my Thai account. I carry three Canadian bank credit cards with zero balances for the unforeseen Major Medical ... which has not yet happened, but is important to those "newbies" delineated above ... you must carry financial backup(s)! After 10 years of living here I have only reached into my investment income once: and that was to buy a house in Surin Province two years ago.
0 -- dogs. (It is to laugh.)
Mostly 0 -- Suphot (he has a thriving tour/taxi business. He pays all regular upkeep stuff. I help out with the unforeseen ... i.e four new fucking Michelin tires, goddam it!)
0 -- cigs

---------------------------------------------
TOTAL = 78420 Thai baht

PS: I've not included the 10,000 Misc. Stuff in this total as it's rather amorphous and smells of "I hope" rather than "I have". Please feel free to tell me if I have missed some glaring 'costs' which I have missed.

[Dodger]

Smiles, I'm using your list of expenses as a template as a time saver. Ironically our Total Monthly Expenses are nearly identical.

3,500 -- Rent for Pattaya Apartment (42,000/annual contract - not sure how long I'll keep this)
Zero -- Rental fee for Bang Saray condo
2,330 -- Condo Maintenance Fee (28,000 per year)
2,600 -- Health Insurance (B32,000/Year - Liberty Mutual Thai Expat Policy - inpatient only)
800 -- Electric & Water (Water is included in annual maintenance fee)
500 -- WIFI (Use miniX box for all TV, music, etc. eliminates need for costly cable services)
12,000 -- Food & Household Sundries (a rough average)
500 -- Condo upkeep (Light bulbs or whatever)
18,000 -- Eating out
20,000 -- Entertainment (includes weekend visits to PTY to guzzle a few beers and pinch a few asses)
300 -- Immigration & visa costs. (or there about's)
7,400 -- Misc. Stuff (Motorbike gas/insurance, repairs - new guitar strings, etc.)
7,000 -- My partner (he's a total home-body - doesn't drink or smoke - has his own dress making business)
3,600 -- cigs (hope to eliminate this expense when I retire - or die, whichever comes first)

---------------------------------------------
TOTAL = 78530 Thai baht

In preparation for my retirement I performed a little test over the past two holidays (6 months) to see how much I would be spending to live comfortably - and B78,000/month came out to be the average. If I were still residing full-time in Pattaya submersed in Bars - Beer - Boys my expenses would be quadrupled.

[cdnmatt]

Awesome, thanks Smiles, francois and Dodger for your replies. Ok, so I guess we're all about in the same boat, and around 70,000 - 90,000/month.

I was wondering if we were doing something wrong here, but obviously not, and on par with the rest of you. I know full well what Thai wages are like, and your typical low/mid level white collar job probably only pays 20,000/month. All the while we're blowing through ~85,000/month, and we're struggling. Well, not struggling, but definitely not spending money on things we don't need.

Ok, so just make more money I guess, as that's simply what it costs. Definitely ignore those retards on Youtube saying things like, "live like a king in Thailand for $500/month", because it just ain't true. :)

[scottish-guy]

Come on, what's even the point of a snide remark like that? Grow up.

Not snide at all Matt - it's humour.

Maybe bad taste humour admittedly, but that's my favourite kind!

[Dodger]

cnd Matt wrote:

"live like a king in Thailand for $500/month", because it just ain't true

Can't live like a king - but can live like a Thai.

I would guess that the average Thai income is around B17,000/month ($500). That would be one low-level white collar income - or a couples combined minimum wage income. (The minimum wage in Thailand is currently at 7,000/month).

If someone from the West could come over here and live like a Thai they could survive. That would require living strictly on market food and living a life without any frills, i.e. entertainment, health insurance, WIFI or a Thai boyfriend or girlfriend which ALWAYS costs you something. So yes, one could survive.

I have a friend from Germany who retired and moved to Thailand on an extremely tight budget about 6 years ago. He spent his retirement savings building a small house in Isaan on his boyfriends parents property and has been surviving their ever since. I believe his monthly budget is close to a Thais (17,000/month). He eats strictly market food, has no real form of entertainment other than play time with his boyfriend and watching the stars at night, has no health insurance coverage (in Thailand), and rarely takes any excursions outside of the village where he resides, but, amazingly enough, when I talk to him on the phone he's as happy as a lark. He now has 3 large dogs (he's a dog lover), a large garden where he grows many of the herbs and vegetables he consumes, spesks Thai fluently and gets invited to Thai occasions frequently, i.e., funerals, weddings, birthdays, new babies being born, etc. and really seems to have adopted the Thai lifestyle naturally.

This friend of mine is surely an exception...but at least I know that it can be done. He told me once that the alternative for him would be retiring in his home town in Germany where he would glued inside a small apartment on his small budget being stuck just watching TV all day.

[Smiles]

I still don't understand either of cndmatt's or Dodger 's electric charges. The former pays 6000B a month and the latter 800B. Talk about a discrepancy!

Over the years I've talked to others on my soi, and most of the farangs are in the same ball park as myself. Most of the Thais don't use the aircon anywhere as much as farangs and their bills are noticeably lower on average ... which makes sense.

On another point, Dodger pays a monthly fee for health insurance. From the beginning I have said an emphatic 'no' to health insurance here.
My health is perfectly fine right now and has been for years. So I play the odds. If a major event (for instance, discovering a cancer) happened I would fly back to Canada where treatment is free.
Circumstances when I become decrepit I'll play by ear . . . Pot will just have to wipe my ass when needed. Many here will tell me I'm quite wrong on this particular issue.

[FarangRuMak]

The aircon is the culprit.
Constant use, old, not cleaned, set very low etc.
My bill in a 2 roomed condo for 3 months was B5600.
This included a lot of cooking on an electric stove plus a fridge constantly turned on.

[cdnmatt]

Well, back when I was alone, I would always work in the office all day, and just used a fan. I'd only use A/C in the bedroom when I slept. Back then, my electric bill was only about 1800/month.

We have 4 A.Cs in this house, but the A/Cs in the living room and office never get turned on, becuase the front door is wide open from about 7am - 10pm every day for the dogs, so they can go in or out when the urge hits them.

I no longer use my office, and basically just live in my bedroom now. It's better, because this way Leo doesn't have to pass me everytime he wants to goto the bathroom, go outside, grab something from the kitchen, etc. I don't use a fan in the bedroom, and just have the A/C on basically 24x7. While awake it's at about 27C, and while sleeping I crank it down to 18C.

The A/C in my room is one of those older, small, crappy units, and I'm not buying a new one because it's not my house, hence it probably sucks up a decent amount of electric. The A/C in Leo's room is one of those higher quality units, but obviously they didn't do a good job cleaning it when we had them done in March, because it's already back to leaking water. Then Leo is the same as me, and likes it cold when he sleeps, so cranks the A/C down to 18C as well.

[FarangRuMak]

I think cranking it down to 18 becomes a habit which keeps demanding more like all habits.
I sleep very well now at c. 25C and very often an open window or a fan is enough.
When I came here first 12 years ago I stayed mostly in hotels @18C but now that has become COLD for me.
But everyone is different.

[Dodger]

Smiles,

The reason I'm able to maintain a low electric bill is actually by design. One of the reasons I purchased the condo I did in Bang Saray is due to the fact that there is a strong and constant cool breeze coming from the ocean. Taking the advice of several other condo owners in the building I installed screen doors on both the front door and rear balcony doors. This provides a constant breeze 24/7 and I rarely (if ever) turn on the AC units in the day time. I also installed 3 large ceiling fans - 2 of which run almost constantly, although draw very low current and are cheap to run. We turn on the AC in our bedroom when we go to sleep (or, just prior to play time) set at 25C. When I get up 3 hours later to take a pee I turn the AC off and turn on the bedroom ceiling fan. On average I run the AC 3 or 4 hours a day.

I replaced all of the light bulbs in my two room condo (14 bulbs total) last April and replaced them all with LED bulbs. The dam things are expensive (about B240 each) but run 10 times more efficient that regular incondesent bulbs thus reducing the electric usage for lighting 10 fold. LED lights also run for 10-15 years and well worth the investment. My last electric bill for the month of June was B814 for my 80 M2 condo and it was a scorching hot month.

My health insurance policy with Liberty Mutual is fairly economical @ B32,000/year - provides 1 million baht coverage max for each medical incident - no deductable - direct pay to hospital for in patient services only - preexisting conditions not covered. This coverage is intended to prevent me from having to return home for medical treatment in the event I need hospitalization for something of a moderate to fairly serious nature. Minor medical needs can be paid out-of-pocket. I've only had the use this coverage once for major eye surgery I had in Thailand a year ago and Liberty Mutual paid for all in patient costs (approx. B230,000) and I paid for the outpatient examinations (approx. B18,000). The cost of the airline tickets alone would have been around $1,800 U.S. (B61,000).

I'm going to emphasize the benefit of using an AC with the invertor compressor again only because they have been proven to reduce your electric usage (and electric bill) by 40%-60%. I purchased two LG 12,000 BTU units which were on promotion at Homepro for B17,000 each and they are paying for themselves right now.

[Smiles]

Very much agree. When I landed on these shores the heat just about killed me, and I was a steaming bucket of sweat 24/7.
Seventeen years on and I'm probably acclimatized as much as I ever will be. Still sweat but less, but don't care.
I still prefer getting the bedroom cool before hopping in the sack, but having the aircon on all night I'd freeze to death.
When I go back to Canada I'm always cold, even in late spring when the idiots run around in tanktops I've got a light winter coat on.

[goji]

I think cranking it down to 18 becomes a habit which keeps demanding more like all habits.
I sleep very well now at c. 25C and very often an open window or a fan is enough.
When I came here first 12 years ago I stayed mostly in hotels @18C but now that has become COLD for me.
But everyone is different.
I immediately can become used to sleeping at 25C after arriving from the UK and would not dream of cooling the temperature down to 18C.
On my last trip, the only time I slept with aircon on was because my Cambodian friend for the night insisted upon it.

[cdnmatt]

20.000 for food ? In Khon Kaen, my are you going out eating every night in those places near the Kosa Hotel ? I don't get it, eat the local stuff, it is heaps better than what you mentioned, and it doesn't cost a thing.

As to your rent, even in BKK for that kind of money, I can easily find a one bedroom near a skytrain or MRT station.


What? Local Thai market food is good? Surely, you jest. :)

I'll admit, I think quite a few of the local Thai dishes are quite tasty, but by no measure can you say it's healthy for you. The use way too much oil, reuse the coil too many times, and most importantly none of the typical Thai dishes have anything in terms of veggies.

There's a few dishes with quite a few veggies, like "paak phat lohm meet" (veggie stiry fry basically), "gai phat met mummueng timmipan (s)" (chicken stir fry with snow peas and cashews), "paak phat met gung" (veggie stir fry with shripm), and so on. However, from my experience at least, you have to hunt around quite a bit before finding a market stall or small restaurant that will cook those dishes.

I guess there's also Thai BBQ and "jao aawn", which both come with a good amount of veggies, but that's really about it. All the typical dishes you'll get at a market have virtually no veggies at all. You might get some basil, Thai chillis, and maybe some slices of cucumber, but nothing more.

Whereas I cook proper meals at home, with almost always the same rations. 30% protien, 50% veggies, 20% starch, regardless of dish or cuisine I'm cooking. I don't know about you, but I need my veggies, or else my energy level and mental capacity drop significantly.

That, and we're 35 and 22 years old, so natually most likely eat quite a bit more than your average retired individual. Regardless, I'm not willing to give up on good food and a proper diet.

[arsenal]

Matt wrote:
" I cook proper meals at home, with almost always the same rations. 30% protien, 50% veggies, 20% starch."

Dinner at your place sounds a right barrel of fun. "Yes Leo, you can have another sausage but please make sure you weigh out 1.66 times it's weight in carrots and 2/3 it's weight in potato." Haha.

[scottish-guy]

I thought starch had gone out of fashion, so I'm pleased to learn that even in the depths of the Thai jungle, Matt is doing his bit to champion it.

For too long we have suffered from limp, flaccid, lifeless shirts - so I'm with Matt - bring back good old fashioned starch so that once again we can proudly walk about in crisp and uncrumpled ones.

It would also bring a whole new meaning to the phrase "having a stiffy"

[francois]

Actually starch is a type of carbohydrate as sugar is a type of carbohydrate.
The supermarkets in Pattaya do stock it in the laundry section and, one assumes, it is used to stiffen fabrics.

[Dodger]

cdnmatt wrote:

"I'll admit, I think quite a few of the local Thai dishes are quite tasty, but by no measure can you say it's healthy for you".

Agree, if they are the ones doing the cooking (poor hygiene and too much oil and sugar), but what you find at most local markets is about as healthy as it gets. I try to eat one large salad every day for the obvious nutritional benefits and always find what I need at the market, i.e. fresh leafy greens, spring onions, bok choy, carrots,tomatoes, cucumber, bean sprouts,etc., etc. Always fresh (rinse with clean water), loaded with nutrition including fiber and those good carbs we need.

Starch, as you mention, is also healthy as long as you avoid white flour and white rice which of course is a major food supply over here. Brown rice is the only way to go but rarely served at any markets or food stalls...too expensive for them I guess.

We buy enough at the market to make a salad a day for each of us for a week (14 large salads) for somewhere around a whopping 200 baht. I spend more than that for my favorite Japanese Roasted Sesame Salad Dressing...but, oh so good!

Eating Thai food in general is considered one of the healthiest diets on the planet: Low csrb (avoid the sugar and rice) - high in nutrients. Protein is the biggest challenge and most Thais do not get enough in their daily diets. Most farang overcome this by consuming larger portions meat and fish.

[scottish-guy]

Actually starch is a type of carbohydrate as sugar is a type of carbohydrate.
The supermarkets in Pattaya do stock it in the laundry section and, one assumes, it is used to stiffen fabrics.

I was actually joking you know.

:cool:

[cdnmatt]

Again though, you're missing the veggies. Just think of the typical Thai dihes -- khao man gai, krapow moo sap, krapow gai, gaen kida wan, tom yam, kai jiao, pad thai, gwaai-tiao, and so on. None of them really have any vegetables in them at all, and those are the dishes you're going to find at every night market and small roadside restaurant across the country.

Sure, I'll grab the occasional "khao man gai" or something, but I'm not going to turn that food into my regular diet, because I'll just get sick again.

But yeah, agrred on the market for raw good ingredients. That 7000/month Central shopping trip is just for things we can't get at the markets like strawberries, peaches, plums, sirloin, salmon, ground beef, sour cream, spices, cereal, etc. Basically all the expensive stuff, so 7000 doesn't buy you much.

Then the other 13,000/month is all at the markets for veggies, chicken, pork, oranges, juice, etc. It's just I cook our meals at home, instead of eating hot places of street food. It works. :)

[francois]

I was actually joking you know.

:cool:

Say it ain't so!

[Dalewood]

Did anyone else go through Matt's list quickly and wonder how he could spend B12000/month on beer in addition to several thousand on other alcoholic beverages?

[cdnmatt]

heh, either that's a bad joke, or you don't read the board often. Leo is my BF's name.

Again, not really sure how much he gets, but about 12,000/month seems about right. Last time he went back to Laos he had 5000 in his wallet, but the time prior to that had 15,000 in his wallet. Then while here he always buys some small things to bring back to his village. Maybe one of those cheap rice cookers, or some cheap dishes for his father's house, or some of those little toy trinkets for the kids, or whatever. Nothing special though.

[christianpfc]

1000 - Shampoo, Frontline
...
TOTAL: 86,000/month

Then other things like cell phone top-ups, gardener, haircuts, soap, etc.
What is Frontline and how do you spent 1000 Baht per month on shampoo? Granted, I buy shampoo every few months, but I haven't bought soap for years. When I stay in hotel rooms, I take the soap from there. And haircut? One per month for 60 Baht, including shaving!

You have to split the 86,000/month, well not exactly into two as even without Leo you would have the same expenses for rent and dogs, but let's say 70k for you and 16k for Leo or something like that.

I live on 35k per month, including entertaining various boys, and taking various trips, but without health insurance, visa runs and eating mainly Thai food. I could easily spend more, but it wouldn't increase my happiness.

Details here: http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2017/03/my-expenses-jan-2017.html and several other similar posts on my blog.

[cdnmatt]

Apparently, I'm just being blind again. There should be one tab and 5 spaces on the left side of various lines in that list. It's 20,000 total for Leo's and mine food bill, and the lines below that are an itemized list. Then 9000 for the dogs, and lines below again itemized list of where that money goes.

Frontline is a drug / chemical you put on the back of dogs necks to keep dog fleas and ticks away, and not cheap. It's about 900 baht for 3 doses, and you need to apply about every 3 weeks. Then shampoo is for the dogs, because obviously we get the specialized formula to help ward off the fleas and ticks.

But yeah, shampoo for Leo and myself is cheap, and included in the Misc lline. I don't know, but I think it's about 100/month for shampoo.

[Mickp]

:kiss:
Did anyone else go through Matt's list quickly and wonder how he could spend B12000/month on beer in addition to several thousand on other alcoholic beverages?

He loves his Leo !!! :kiss:

[gerefan2]

As for 37000 Bt every month on buying food....?

"20000 food
3000 Leo market
10000 other market shopping (shrimp chicken pork)
4000 hot meals"

You need to " look" at these figures!

[Dodger]

Matt,

My better half cooks all of his own meals (and some of mine) and the common things I see him picking up at the market include: fruits like jackfruit, papaya, mangosteen, Burmese grapes and apples. The vegetables he commonly buys are the same that go into making the regular Thai fair including bamboo shoots, lotus stems, Chinese cabbage, straw mushrooms, carrots, pea pods, bok choy, kale, asparagus, shiitake, eggplant, etc. Thai curry pastes, galangal, lemongrass, balsam leaves, coriander, garlic and a host of spices like phrik nu chillies, blend in perfectly to create zingy curries,fresh salads and tasty stir fries. This is vegetarian Thai food at its best - healthy as it gets - and very economical.

[cdnmatt]

@gerefan2 -- Again, I just screwed up. It's 20,000 total for food, and 9000 total for the dogs. The few lines under those items are supposed to be indented to indicate a breakdown of where the 20,000 and 9000 goes, but obviously that didn't come out right.

@Dodger -- Yeah, totally agreed, and that's basically what we do aswell. We buy as much as we can from the markets, and cook at home, but just buy different veggies obviously. I like my bell peppers, broccoli, baby corn, snow peas, etc. Those are obviously more expensive than things like lemongrass and onions.

Anyway, my point was eating out at the market stalls or small restaurants can by no measure be considered a good diet, as Justaguy implied. But yeah, if you cook at home, you can definitely get all the nutrition you need from the food available at night markets.

[cdnmatt]

I live on 35k per month, including entertaining various boys, and taking various trips, but without health insurance, visa runs and eating mainly Thai food. I could easily spend more, but it wouldn't increase my happiness.

Was thinking about that, and yeah, I could actually see it. Ok, start with my 86,000/month.

You don't drink, have dogs, or a BF, so that scratches 29,000 bringing it down to 57,000/month.

Then if Leo didn't live here, obviously food and electric would be cheaper, so let's drop another 12,000 for that, beinging it down to 45,000/month.

On top of that since you don't have dogs, you obviously have no need for a house with a large gated yard, and probably are happy with a small say 5000/month room. Ok, so drop another 7000 off rent, and we're now down to 38,000/month.

From there, I could eat a little more conservatively, drop the Central shopping trip altogether, plus treat things like bell peppers and broccoli as specialty items, so drop another say 3000 from good, and now I'm down to 35,000/month as well.

So yeah, I can envision it, and definitely possible. Think I'll stick with my current life though, and just figure out how to make money. Pain in the ass when you're blind.

[goji]

Think I'll stick with my current life though, and just figure out how to make money. Pain in the ass when you're blind.
Well if you're a 35 year old professional, then the next 20 years are the time to be making money & saving like crazy, so making money should be part of the equation. Also, see a proper doctor. I would be getting rid of the dogs too.

[newalaan2]

now i'm down to 35,000/month as well.So yeah, I can envision it, and definitely possible It's CPFC so there's no 'envision' or 'possible' about it, it's sure-fire certain. But 'why' anyone would want to live that lifestyle is beyond me. Despite never planning to, or vaguely interested in moving to Thailand fulltime this is an interesting thread just for the snippets of what other's consider normal lifestyle. Such as the 18c night time temp when sleeping. That is SO fucking cold, 18c is only on when we first come back to the room and it's hot, 10 mins of 18c and then back to 25c. As for overnight....minimum is 22c but 23-24c ok too. The only thing I don't like about Mosaik is no roof fan, I much prefer that with occasional bursts of aircon.

Like 'smiles' finding it difficult to come to terms with matts Bt6,000 month electric. I'm on holiday with little care about electric costs and even at Mosaik with a huge room, aircon on a lot with 8-10 hrs overnight and between bf entertaining friends and time I spend another 8 hrs+ as well as cooking/microwave/lights etc.. our bill for a longer than usual 12 nights was Bt1,100 at Bt7 per unit, water was Bt110 for 12 nights.

Also god only knows how matt/leo operate without a motocy,(have I got that right? no motocy?) every thai I know from poorest to reasonably off, from Khon Kaen, Pattaya to Bkk has a motocy, daily visit to market, going to work, shops, places....so inconvenient without. Even tho motocy taxi fares are Bt10 in Navanakorn friend there says life without a motocy would be in his word 'impossible'.

But excellent thread matt, seems like smiles and Dodger have also got a grip on things with their lifestyle choices in Thailand and some great advice that even us occasional visitors can consider to boot.

[cdnmatt]

hah, I remember back as a kid when I had the basement room in our house in Canada. It'd be -38C in the winter, and I'd crank the window wide open, but have a space heater under the blanket. So it was blistering cold in the room, except nice and warm under the blanket. I don't know, just how I've always liked it.

What's really weird is how Leo likes the same as me, because he cranks his A/C down when he sleeps as well. This is the first time in his life he's ever had A/C, but quickly took to it. :)

And nope, no motorcycle. Leo does have one, but it's back in Laos. Obviously, I can't drive anymore, and Leo doesn't want to, because it's too busy for him here. He likes driving around in the village, but not in the city.

That, and we don't need it anyway. Just around the corner are loads of people who just setup little charcoal grills to cook good on the sidewalk, or put out a spread of fruits or veggies on the sidewalk, cook up sticky rice, etc. All that is about 200m from the house, then the larger market is only about a 5 minute walk where we can get nearly anything and everything. Plus songtaews are only 200m around the corner as well, and take us right into town to Fairy Plaza, where tuk-tuks are always sitting there to take us anywhere we need to go in the city.

[christianpfc]

...picking up at the market include: fruits like jackfruit, papaya, mangosteen, Burmese grapes and apples.
Burmese grapes? The grapes in Thai markets are usually imported, and strangely grapes in Makro are usually cheaper than in Klong Toey market.

As for aircon, I have mine at 27 degree Celsius.

[Mickp]

Actually i havent been budgeting.
47 this year and a im a millionaire,on paper that is.
Asset rich no money though.

I need to get a budget going i spend too much !

Wish i some Scottish in me !!

I would of been a Micky Mcnamara

Maybe i should sell the apartments and cash in and go live in Vietnam with my old buddy Bob .

[bobsaigon2]

Your meds, Mick. Your meds. Don't forget.

[sglad]

Burmese grapes? The grapes in Thai markets are usually imported, and strangely grapes in Makro are usually cheaper than in Klong Toey market.

If the grapes came from Myanmar, wouldn't they have been imported then?

[christianpfc]

Yes. My mistake. I meant "from overseas", in particular from the US or Australia.

On the other hand, there is wine made in Thailand, and I have been to vineyards, so there are grapes grown in Thailand.

[Smiles]

Yes. My mistake. I meant "from overseas", in particular from the US or Australia. On the other hand, there is wine made in Thailand, and I have been to vineyards, so there are grapes grown in Thailand.
There are vineyards in northern Thailand, especially in the cooler mountains in Chiang Mai Province.

There also is a rather beautiful vineyard in the hills west of Hua Hin. It's been around now for quite a few years. Up to a few months ago it was named the Hua Hin Hills Vineyards but recently they changed the name to Monsoon Valley Vineyards. We've taken lots of friends there for excellent lunches, just last week actually. https://www.monsoonvalley.com/en

The general hot weather of Thailand is not a great climate for many varieties of grapes but they make a quite delicious red Shiraz and a number of whites and sparkling wine which I have not tasted. I'm not much of a white wine slurper, but I love reds and love their Shiraz.
The vineyard is located about an half hour drive west of Hua Hin, up into the mountains and the wine-tasting and restaurant is very popular (reservations often needed for dinner). The views looking back down to Hua Hin and the ocean (you can just see it sometimes if there is no mist) are quite beautiful and I could sit there for hours with a few glasses of wine ... no one will hurry you. They have tasting bar.

[christianpfc]

West of Hua Hin, on the way to Pa La O waterfall, I have been at a vineyard there last year with a friend from Germany who said the wine is twice as expensive and half as good as the wine he drinks in Germany.

Now I remember, the grapes in the supermarket are labelled "imported" and then specifying US or Australia. So I still wonder if there are grapes grown in Thailand and widely sold for direct consumption. Same for Myanmar.

[Up2U]

The Silverlake Vineyards and winery is a short distance from Pattaya. If one is looking for a short day trip, I recommend Khao Chii Chan(Buddha engraved on mountainside)and then a visit to the winery.

https://www.silverlakevineyard.com

http://www.bangkok.com/pattaya/buddha-mountain.htm

[Smiles]

The Silverlake Vineyards and winery is a short distance from Pattaya.
I'd second that. Been there at least three times over the years. Must say, usually for lunch ... always an excellent one. Great Tiramisu.

The Buddha image etched into the side of a mountain and then the etching marks filled with gold. Impressive!

[arsenal]

Silverlake is definitely worth a visit if only because it's the weirdest strangest place. A sort of Thai version of Portmeirion where nothing fits together and yet works as a whole.