Me again.

[aarancam]

4552
Does this make any sense to anyone?

[bobsaigon2]

06/08/1984 on the paper. Is that his birth date? No longer a Lao "boy". I guess you have to compare his Lao passport or ID with the name and DOB on the document. The measurements look like it's a townhouse/row house/ shop house, or simply a piece of vacant land. It might be helpful if you have this translated by a service in Australia, but it's still not evidence that he would be financially motivated to return to Australia after his tourist visa expired.

There is a tendency to think that "This one is special. He's not like all the other money boys that people on this forum have met". Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age, but we can relate our experiences and indicate just how trustworthy this person appears to us. I hope you'll make the decision that is best for you.

[cdnmatt]

I'm assuming those images are in Laos language? Hang on, he's sleeping again. I'll get him to let me know what it says later, and will reply back.

[aarancam]

I'm assuming those images are in Laos language? Hang on, he's sleeping again. I'll get him to let me know what it says later, and will reply back.

Thanks matey

[aarancam]

06/08/1984 on the paper. Is that his birth date? No longer a Lao "boy". I guess you have to compare his Lao passport or ID with the name and DOB on the document. The measurements look like it's a townhouse/row house/ shop house, or simply a piece of vacant land. It might be helpful if you have this translated by a service in Australia, but it's still not evidence that he would be financially motivated to return to Australia after his tourist visa expired.

There is a tendency to think that "This one is special. He's not like all the other money boys that people on this forum have met". Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age, but we can relate our experiences and indicate just how trustworthy this person appears to us. I hope you'll make the decision that is best for you.

He has a shop and pigs and chickens. He's only coming to Oz for a month. I don't mind sending $600 but I'm worried this might happen a few times in different ways. He could have twenty of us on the go for all I know!

[bobsaigon2]

He could have twenty of us on the go for all I know! Glad to see this bit of realism appearing in your post. Indeed he could have multiple supporters, and by age 33, if that is his correct age, it's possible he also has wife and children in the background.

[cdnmatt]

Oh, and I forgot... Is the land already in his name, or does he need to flip it over into his name? If the latter, then yeah, I guess 15,000 baht sounds about right. I didn't really understand the explanation Leo gave, but I guess switching land ownership to another person is quite expensive for some reason.

If the land is already in his name, then it should be around 100 baht. Just go to the government land office with photo ID, they'll have the records in their computer, print out a new deed, give it a quick stamp, and off you go.

[aarancam]

Oh, and I forgot... Is the land already in his name, or does he need to flip it over into his name? If the latter, then yeah, I guess 15,000 baht sounds about right. I didn't really understand the explanation Leo gave, but I guess switching land ownership to another person is quite expensive for some reason.

If the land is already in his name, then it should be around 100 baht. Just go to the government land office with photo ID, they'll have the records in their computer, print out a new deed, give it a quick stamp, and off you go.

Thanks. I've just told him that and I really think he is being honest. Thanks for your help, I'll keep you briefed. Can I send private messages to you or email? davidowen3333@hotmail.com

[Smiles]

Oh, and I forgot... Is the land already in his name, or does he need to flip it over into his name? If the latter, then yeah, I guess 15,000 baht sounds about right. I didn't really understand the explanation Leo gave, but I guess switching land ownership to another person is quite expensive for some reason.
One of the reasons that changing ownership of land takes a fairly long time (and expense) is that the new owner has to get his own new 'Chinote'. It's not simply a change of names on an original chinote. Part of the bureaucratic process in doing so also includes a completely new survey of the land in question (including a few pickup trucks, lots of equipment, half a dozen staff. Often it takes week or months for your name to get to the front of the queue. None of this is free.)
Some of these pieces of land in the country side have been owned by families for a very long time. Many do not even have a chinote: property lines get forgotten, stakes go missing, cement or iron placements get covered over or they disintegrate over time. Trust me ... we've been there!

The rules I mention regarding this process are of cause Thailand's rules, but I'd place a bit of a bet on the rules in Lao being very similar.

[Smiles]

4552
Does this make any sense to anyone?
It's the land title. In Thailand it's called a 'chinote'. Don't the name in Lao, but possibly the same, or something similar. But the Lao document looks very much like a Thailand Chinote.
The diagram in the middle is a measured facsimile of the piece of land itself including size and any main roads it's bordering on. The size of the property seems to be 30 meters long X 20 meters along the road (i.e. the ----------- lines). The little round 'O's at each corner of the surveyor's stakes are the limits of the property. A 5th 'O' at the bottom delineates another person's land.
The date 1989 up there at the top is probably the date which the original owner claimed the piece of land. The 2014 date is probably when the new owner received his chinote.

(Just asked my guy about the chinote in Lao. He speaks Lao as well, but said he didn't know ... he's always used the word "chinote" when talking about land stuff even when the discussion is in Lao.)

[frequent]

One of the reasons that changing ownership of land takes a fairly long time (and expense) is that the new owner has to get his own new 'Chinote'. It's not simply a change of names on an original chinote. Part of the bureaucratic process in doing so also includes a completely new survey of the land in question (including a few pickup trucks, lots of equipment, half a dozen staff. Often it takes week or months for your name to get to the front of the queue. None of this is free.)
Some of these pieces of land in the country side have been owned by families for a very long time. Many do not even have a chinote: property lines get forgotten, stakes go missing, cement or iron placements get covered over or they disintegrate over time. Trust me ... we've been there!

The rules I mention regarding this process are of cause Thailand's rules, but I'd place a bit of a bet on the rules in Lao being very similar.You have hinted at the real reason why it's so expensive - "it takes week or months for your name to get to the front of the queue. None of this is free". But if you understand that you can suddenly get to the front of the queue by paying a "facilitation" fee, or languish at the back of the queue forever because you won't (or can't) ...

[justaguy]

Oh, and I forgot... Is the land already in his name, or does he need to flip it over into his name? If the latter, then yeah, I guess 15,000 baht sounds about right. I didn't really understand the explanation Leo gave, but I guess switching land ownership to another person is quite expensive for some reason.

If the land is already in his name, then it should be around 100 baht. Just go to the government land office with photo ID, they'll have the records in their computer, print out a new deed, give it a quick stamp, and off you go.


Get out of here, the land itself isn't that big if the measurements are correct, I doubt the land would even cost 15.000 baht, unless the land is in Vientiane...

[justaguy]

You have hinted at the real reason why it's so expensive - "it takes week or months for your name to get to the front of the queue. None of this is free". But if you understand that you can suddenly get to the front of the queue by paying a "facilitation" fee, or languish at the back of the queue forever because you won't (or can't) ...

Getting to the front of the queue in Lao will not cost more than the odd thousand or two thousand baht. Transferring land ownership cost 15.000 baht ? People don't be silly.

A couple of years ago, my boyfriend bought a parcel of land ample to put a new house on. The fee, 4000 baht, that's the land and the switching of ownership. Oh and a few bottles of beerlao to clear the land.

[cdnmatt]

Get out of here, the land itself isn't that big if the measurements are correct, I doubt the land would even cost 15.000 baht, unless the land is in Vientiane...


Well, I don't bloody know... I'm blind, so quite obviously I can't see the dimensions on an image, now can I?

I'm just going off what Leo said, because he's a signatory on the family farm. And that form produces I guess 11 tonnes of rice per-harvest, which means it's a really fucken big farm, so I'm fairly confident he knows about the land ownership rules in Laos.

[justaguy]

Well, I don't bloody know... I'm blind, so quite obviously I can't see the dimensions on an image, now can I?

I'm just going off what Leo said, because he's a signatory on the family farm. And that form produces I guess 11 tonnes of rice per-harvest, which means it's a really fucken big farm, so I'm fairly confident he knows about the land ownership rules in Laos.

That piece of land is not big. Listen, I have been going to Lao for well over a decade, and have been in a relationship with a Lao for 13 years. There is no way a mere land ownership transfer for a small piece of land would cost 15,000 baht, again that's four month salaries. Be realistic please.

Not to mention the fact that this guy claims that he cannot go to Australia without it, absolute bollocks, he could be out of the country with just his passport and be on his way to Trendy Building on Sukhumvit to get the visa (providing they process Lao citizens there) right now.

OP claimed this in the other thread:

"I actually meant the police or government want this money to check his land so they know he has s omething to come back to. "

Oh my, why oh why would the Lao government care about him having something to come back to ? My boyfriend (6x) his brother (one time) have been going to my home country for three months visits.

They just cross the border and go to Krung Thep where we get the visa done. And all of those times I have acted as guarantor which alleviates most of the requirements from the foreigner intended to visit. Including the letter from employer, any cash requirements.

Yes the Oz government will be the one concerend about this guy having something to go back to, but I don't think that would be too much of a burden. I am guessing the biggest hurdle would be the lenght of their relationship.

[newalaan2]

One of the reasons that changing ownership of land takes a fairly long time (and expense) is that the new owner has to get his own new 'Chinote'. It's not simply a change of names on an original chinote. Part of the bureaucratic process in doing so also includes a completely new survey of the land in question (including a few pickup trucks, lots of equipment, half a dozen staff. Often it takes week or months for your name to get to the front of the queue. None of this is free.)
Some of these pieces of land in the country side have been owned by families for a very long time. Many do not even have a chinote: property lines get forgotten, stakes go missing, cement or iron placements get covered over or they disintegrate over time. Trust me ... we've been there!

The rules I mention regarding this process are of cause Thailand's rules, but I'd place a bit of a bet on the rules in Lao being very similar.
Like smiles I cannot advise on the Lao costs for land name changes, and as cdnmatt has also suggested I can certainly confirm that in Issan anyway it is very costly. Over the last couple of years as the parents have become older in bfs extended family, a few in the family circle have been 'sorting out' the land issues before some of that older generation pass away, once 1 or 2 family members started doing this 1 or 2 more with similarly aged parents also decided time was right to pass on the land rights. What to us and me seemed a simple enough name change legal process for a couple thousand baht was way off the mark. Most recent was land passed from father's family to son (as he ran the farming business)and it cost Bt32,000. It was more necessary because the land was needed to be used as surety to the bank against borrowing for farm machinery/building etc but that was just the fees with no Q jumping costs.

Also more recently, unfortunately, some of these transactions have been needed as bank loans and more specifically car loans have been called in around the village area as the new car showrooms which sprung up 3-4 years back in the area persuaded many to go into long term loan agreements they just were not in the position to pay back if anything went belly up during the 6 years or so of the loan period. The problem for many was they were so keen to get a vehicle to keep up with the Jones's not only did they borrow the money from Toyota or whoever but instead of saving for the deposit went and borrowed that too from a different, often more expensive source and so there was no equity whatsoever after 2-3 years of car ownership as a cash deposit would have allowed for, and if losses accrued on top of the poor value of the high mileage vehicle meant raising alternative sources of funds.....family land. My last visit to bfs village we noticed two large areas of land up for sale through loan company agencies. (village gossip, gossip, gossip....)

[aarancam]

Thanks everyone. So now I'm thinking he could be telling the truth. It's maybe to jump the que. I'll send the money and see how we go. He just said the lady said it would make everything easy.

[justaguy]

Thanks everyone. So now I'm thinking he could be telling the truth. It's maybe to jump the que. I'll send the money and see how we go. He just said the lady said it would make everything easy.

Nah he is lying. No way a land ownership transfer for a 30x20 meter piece of land would cost that much. As I said, that could easily be the total price of the land in many parts of Laos, short from the populous areas.

And it is certainly not needed for him to be able to visit you. You are just the foreigner agreeing to pick up the tab. Rest assured that money is not only being used to pay for the transfer. And it is most definitely not needed for him to visit you in Australia.

But hey if you are happy giving that money to him, go right ahead. He isn't telling the whole truth that much is certain.

[Smiles]

" ... you can suddenly get to the front of the queue by paying a "facilitation" fee ... "
Quite right. In Thailand "facilitation" is always an option.

[scottish-guy]

..... I am guessing the biggest hurdle would be the lenght of their relationship.

Which, if Australian immigration is anything like the UK's, will have to be proved - no easy feat!

[aarancam]

Thank you. He just explained that so I'm going ahead with it. I'll keep you briefed...

[justaguy]

Which, if Australian immigration is anything like the UK's, will have to be proved - no easy feat!

Yeah, well a few photos together might actually do the trick. a nice letter explaining the relationship might also help.

[cdnmatt]

Ok, first off @justaguy -- What are you talking about? Granted, I've never been to Leo's farm before, but I have been to Kims' farm. That was a sizable plot of land, and it produced about 1.5 tonnes of rice, and took Kim about 3 days to help harvest. So for a farm to produce 11 tonnes of rice is huge, and last time Leo was gone for 3 weeks to help on the farm. That has to be the size of a good sized sub-division in Canada. I only wish I owned that much land.

Anyway, I tend to do things overkill, especially when it's something I care about. Nonetheless, I'm planning to get Leo a 6 month visitor VISA to Canada in the future, and if it helps, here's what I'm planning.

1.) We've been taking time stamped photos for a good while, hence proving genuine relationship.
2.) We have letter from my eye specialist vouching that he's my care taker.
3.) We have his passport his entry / exit stamps, proving his time in Thailand.
4.) Proof of finances, plus later we will get get a joing bank account, and I'll ensure there's enough in there to satisfy the Canadian government.
6.) When we get a new house lease, I'll ensure his and mine names are on it.
7.) He has his name on the farm in Laos, which we will get translated into English.
8.) I'll have my family write letters, plus his family write letters, just to confirm that we actually know each other and live together. Again, doesn't need to be a romantic relationship, but the government will want proof it's a genuine relationship, and he's not just paying me to take him across the border.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few items, and will remember them when I get around to it. Again, I tend to go overkill on these things, but due to that, they generally work out the way I want.

[aarancam]

06/08/1984 on the paper. Is that his birth date? No longer a Lao "boy". I guess you have to compare his Lao passport or ID with the name and DOB on the document. The measurements look like it's a townhouse/row house/ shop house, or simply a piece of vacant land. It might be helpful if you have this translated by a service in Australia, but it's still not evidence that he would be financially motivated to return to Australia after his tourist visa expired.

There is a tendency to think that "This one is special. He's not like all the other money boys that people on this forum have met". Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age, but we can relate our experiences and indicate just how trustworthy this person appears to us. I hope you'll make the decision that is best for you.

I get that. Thank you for your thoughts. He is differeny though lol.

[aarancam]

One of the reasons that changing ownership of land takes a fairly long time (and expense) is that the new owner has to get his own new 'Chinote'. It's not simply a change of names on an original chinote. Part of the bureaucratic process in doing so also includes a completely new survey of the land in question (including a few pickup trucks, lots of equipment, half a dozen staff. Often it takes week or months for your name to get to the front of the queue. None of this is free.)
Some of these pieces of land in the country side have been owned by families for a very long time. Many do not even have a chinote: property lines get forgotten, stakes go missing, cement or iron placements get covered over or they disintegrate over time. Trust me ... we've been there!

The rules I mention regarding this process are of cause Thailand's rules, but I'd place a bit of a bet on the rules in Lao being very similar.

I get that. Thanks for your thoughts.

[aarancam]

It's the land title. In Thailand it's called a 'chinote'. Don't the name in Lao, but possibly the same, or something similar. But the Lao document looks very much like a Thailand Chinote.
The diagram in the middle is a measured facsimile of the piece of land itself including size and any main roads it's bordering on. The size of the property seems to be 30 meters long X 20 meters along the road (i.e. the ----------- lines). The little round 'O's at each corner of the surveyor's stakes are the limits of the property. A 5th 'O' at the bottom delineates another person's land.
The date 1989 up there at the top is probably the date which the original owner claimed the piece of land. The 2014 date is probably when the new owner received his chinote.

(Just asked my guy about the chinote in Lao. He speaks Lao as well, but said he didn't know ... he's always used the word "chinote" when talking about land stuff even when the discussion is in Lao.)

Can he not leave Laos without this being newly stamped?

[aarancam]

I get that. Thank you for your thoughts. He is differeny though lol.

Will Whatsapp do?

[aarancam]

One of the reasons that changing ownership of land takes a fairly long time (and expense) is that the new owner has to get his own new 'Chinote'. It's not simply a change of names on an original chinote. Part of the bureaucratic process in doing so also includes a completely new survey of the land in question (including a few pickup trucks, lots of equipment, half a dozen staff. Often it takes week or months for your name to get to the front of the queue. None of this is free.)
Some of these pieces of land in the country side have been owned by families for a very long time. Many do not even have a chinote: property lines get forgotten, stakes go missing, cement or iron placements get covered over or they disintegrate over time. Trust me ... we've been there!

The rules I mention regarding this process are of cause Thailand's rules, but I'd place a bit of a bet on the rules in Lao being very similar.

Makes it make a bit more sense. Thank you

[aarancam]

It's the land title. In Thailand it's called a 'chinote'. Don't the name in Lao, but possibly the same, or something similar. But the Lao document looks very much like a Thailand Chinote.
The diagram in the middle is a measured facsimile of the piece of land itself including size and any main roads it's bordering on. The size of the property seems to be 30 meters long X 20 meters along the road (i.e. the ----------- lines). The little round 'O's at each corner of the surveyor's stakes are the limits of the property. A 5th 'O' at the bottom delineates another person's land.
The date 1989 up there at the top is probably the date which the original owner claimed the piece of land. The 2014 date is probably when the new owner received his chinote.

(Just asked my guy about the chinote in Lao. He speaks Lao as well, but said he didn't know ... he's always used the word "chinote" when talking about land stuff even when the discussion is in Lao.)

Is there any way our men can email each other about this? I think the police are ripping him off. Maybe that's just how it is, I think he's real though. Stop laughing.

[Smiles]

Is there any way our men can email each other about this? I think the police are ripping him off. Maybe that's just how it isGee, you think? Of course they're ripping him off. And yep, it's just the way it is. Trust me mate, it's way bigger than you ...

[Smiles]

Can he not leave Laos without this being newly stamped?
A chinote has absolutely no connection to leaving or not leaving Lao. The former is a land ownership issue, the latter is an immigration/visa issue.
I don't really understand what you mean with your question.


Is there any way our men can email each other about this?
I don't think so.

[cdnmatt]

Well, call the Australian government, and ask them. But yeah, there's a chance will want that with a dated stamp that is no older than 6 months, which would make sense. The government won't care he owned land years ago, but will want to know he still owns it today.

[justaguy]

Ok, first off @justaguy -- What are you talking about? Granted, I've never been to Leo's farm before, but I have been to Kims' farm. That was a sizable plot of land, and it produced about 1.5 tonnes of rice, and took Kim about 3 days to help harvest. So for a farm to produce 11 tonnes of rice is huge, and last time Leo was gone for 3 weeks to help on the farm. That has to be the size of a good sized sub-division in Canada. I only wish I owned that much land.

Anyway, I tend to do things overkill, especially when it's something I care about. Nonetheless, I'm planning to get Leo a 6 month visitor VISA to Canada in the future, and if it helps, here's what I'm planning.

1.) We've been taking time stamped photos for a good while, hence proving genuine relationship.
2.) We have letter from my eye specialist vouching that he's my care taker.
3.) We have his passport his entry / exit stamps, proving his time in Thailand.
4.) Proof of finances, plus later we will get get a joing bank account, and I'll ensure there's enough in there to satisfy the Canadian government.
6.) When we get a new house lease, I'll ensure his and mine names are on it.
7.) He has his name on the farm in Laos, which we will get translated into English.
8.) I'll have my family write letters, plus his family write letters, just to confirm that we actually know each other and live together. Again, doesn't need to be a romantic relationship, but the government will want proof it's a genuine relationship, and he's not just paying me to take him across the border.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few items, and will remember them when I get around to it. Again, I tend to go overkill on these things, but due to that, they generally work out the way I want.

Obviously I was not referring to Leo's land, but the plot of land from the OP !

[justaguy]

Can he not leave Laos without this being newly stamped?

Of course he can leave Laos, he can even get to Australia, providing he can submit a succesful visa application.

If he tells you he cannot leave Laos without this matter resolved, he is lying. But you seem to ignore the people who suspect he is.

[colmx]

I can concur with Smiles and NewAllan's posts above on the costs of land transfers

When my BF was applying for his first Irish visa (A long and drawn out saga, well documented over the years!) we ran into several issues.

First was that land was in Grandfathers name. So we had to do a double transfer from Grandfather to father to son.
Next,one of my BFs uncles had taken a small loan out against the land - which of course had to be repaid and cleared before land could be transferred over to BF's name.

We also had some uncles come looking for a handout during the transfer - but they were swiftly told where to go!

And despite being the country - Buriram lawyers don't come cheap!
Remember it doesn't matter if the land is only worth 30k - its the dwelling that is sitting upon the land which has the value!

We now use the Chanoot for the land as his "reason to go back to Thailand" during visa applications

[cdnmatt]

Thinking about it, this just getting stupid now. Yes, more than likely the Australian government will want a dated stamp on the land title no older than say 6 months, because they will want to know he still currently owns the land. I don't know, you will have to check with the govt on that. Who knows, maybe it will require the land to get surveyed again, which means Smiles and Leo are right, and about 15,000 baht sounds about right.

However, please know that's only one small part of what's going to be required to get him entry. If you think he's going to hit the border with a Laos passport and stamped land title, then be allowed to meander on in, then you're sadly mistane. People in both of our homelands love to bitch about how we let anyone and everyone in, but that's simply not true, and it's quite difficult to get into either Canada or Australia. More than likely, he won't even be allowed to board the flight without a valid Australian VISA in his passport.

If you really want to bring him over, you're going to need to go to the Australian govt website or give them a call, and ask what the requirements are to get him a valid tourist / visitor VISA. Then satisfy those requirements, and have him apply for a VISA at an Australian embassy. You're probably looking at about a 6 month process.

On top of that, please know you will most likely be required to sign off on and sponsor him, eh? That means if he fucks up while in Australia, you're on the hook for it. If he commits a crime, overstays, gets a job, goes to school, tries to get social assistance of any kind, and so on, the government will come after you and charge you for all expenses incurred to society. I'd be careful about bringing someone in you don't truly know.

Not that any of this matters, because there's a decent chance he's just fucking you over for a quick 15,000 baht, and has no intention to visit Australia.

[cdnmatt]

Thinking about it, this just getting stupid now. Yes, more than likely the Australian government will want a dated stamp on the land title no older than say 6 months, because they will want to know he still currently owns the land. I don't know, you will have to check with the govt on that. Who knows, maybe it will require the land to get surveyed again, which means Smiles and Leo are right, and about 15,000 baht sounds about right.

However, please know that's only one small part of what's going to be required to get him entry. If you think he's going to hit the border with a Laos passport and stamped land title, then be allowed to meander on in, then you're sadly mistane. People in both of our homelands love to bitch about how we let anyone and everyone in, but that's simply not true, and it's quite difficult to get into either Canada or Australia. More than likely, he won't even be allowed to board the flight without a valid Australian VISA in his passport.

If you really want to bring him over, you're going to need to go to the Australian govt website or give them a call, and ask what the requirements are to get him a valid tourist / visitor VISA. Then satisfy those requirements, and have him apply for a VISA at an Australian embassy. You're probably looking at about a 6 month process.

On top of that, please know you will most likely be required to sign off on and sponsor him, eh? That means if he fucks up while in Australia, you're on the hook for it. If he commits a crime, overstays, gets a job, goes to school, tries to get social assistance of any kind, and so on, the government will come after you and charge you for all expenses incurred to society. I'd be careful about bringing someone in you don't truly know.

Not that any of this matters, because there's a decent chance he's just fucking you over for a quick 15,000 baht, and has no intention to visit Australia.

[colmx]

BTW the 20 x 30 measurements may not necessarily be metres - remember that in Thailand (and presumably Laos) they have their own measurement system - so those dimensions could be in Wa(2M) or Sen(40M)

If its in Sen - then your guy could be a considerable land holder!

[justaguy]

I just asked my boyfriend, he had to laugh at the 15.000 baht. A land ownership change in Lao would not be more than the odd 3 to 4000 baht.

He said that dreadful word for utter bullshit, that sounds like toileh.

And that land is not big, it's tiny. As confirmed by my boyfriend.

In any case, if that piece of paper would be part of the visa application, it will need to be translated AND legalized by MOFA in Vientiane. Don't worry, that won't cost you more than about 700 baht in total :D

For a schengen Visa, all of this bollocks is not required if one goes the sponsorship route. The burden to prove income remains totally at the sponsor. Intend to return doesn't necessarily have to be some land. My boyfriend got a schengen visa 6 times, and he doesn't own land, doesn't have children, yet it was never a problem. If you can show a genuine relationship it's all really done and dusted.


A very good friend of mine got her UK boyfriend to pay 35.000 baht for a non existing "security check" twice ! She obviously never made it to the UK :D

Oh the bollocks people are trying to pull, and the gullible westerners that fall for it, priceless.

Bottom line, why would you have to pay for something that is totally unrelated to the visit you are offering him ? He doesn't need that piece of land to exit Lao anymore than he needs it to secure a visa.

[colmx]

For a schengen Visa, all of this bollocks is not required if one goes the sponsorship route. The burden to prove income remains totally at the sponsor.

You are lucky that you have the Schengen visa where you come from... in the rest of the civilized world we are a little more fussy about who we let across our borders and force reams of paperwork upon applicants

A friend of mine is trying to get an Irish visa for his Chinese friend and they are being made jump through hoops... Same same when my Thai BF comes here. Worst thing is each time we apply they look for more and more paperwork

[colmx]

Bottom line, why would you have to pay for something that is totally unrelated to the visit you are offering him ? He doesn't need that piece of land to exit Lao anymore than he needs it to secure a visa.

He doesn't need the paperwork to exit Laos. he needs to bring the (translated) paperwork for the land to the Australian embassy as part of his application. It is considered a form of proof that he has a reason to return to his home country at the end of his visa. In non Schengen countries the burden of proof is on the applicant and not their sponsor...

[justaguy]

You are lucky that you have the Schengen visa where you come from... in the rest of the civilized world we are a little more fussy about who we let across our borders and force reams of paperwork upon applicants

A friend of mine is trying to get an Irish visa for his Chinese friend and they are being made jump through hoops... Same same when my Thai BF comes here. Worst thing is each time we apply they look for more and more paperwork

I am quite sure, it won't be all that more difficult to obtain than a Schengen visa, it's not like they give those away either.. But if you inform yourself of the requirements, they aren't all that difficult to comply with.

[justaguy]

He doesn't need the paperwork to exit Laos. he needs to bring the (translated) paperwork for the land to the Australian embassy as part of his application. It is considered a form of proof that he has a reason to return to his home country at the end of his visa. In non Schengen countries the burden of proof is on the applicant and not their sponsor...

Not according to the other thread, where the op quoted literally : "I actually meant the police or government want this money to check his land so they know he has s omething to come back to. "

Why would the Lao government or police care one bit if he returns or not ?

For the other side: surely obtaining proof of intend to return doens't have to cost a whopping 15.000 baht, certainly not in Lao.

[bobsaigon2]

My final word on this, for what's it's worth: 1. The Lao government does not care if your friend never returns to Laos. This goes for the Laos Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the police, the Girl Guides, the Ambulance Brigade, etc. He is totally free to leave and never return. Land title is irrelevant. Proving that he owns a shop house, regardless of the number of chickens and pigs that are in residence, is no guarantee that he will be financially motivated to return to Laos.

2. He will not get a tourist visa from the Australian government because he has no way to show that his financial situation in Laos is substantial enough to attract him to return to Laos when his tourist visa expires. No amount of promises or guarantees by an Australian sponsor will help to get the tourist visa.

Have fun with your friend in Thailand or Laos and be resigned to the fact that he's not going to be able to get anywhere near Australia, especially in these days of the Australian government's more restrictive immigration regulations.

[aarancam]

BTW the 20 x 30 measurements may not necessarily be metres - remember that in Thailand (and presumably Laos) they have their own measurement system - so those dimensions could be in Wa(2M) or Sen(40M)

If its in Sen - then your guy could be a considerable land holder!

He's got a shop and keeps pigs and chickens

[cdnmatt]

Well, if he has pigs and chickens, there's no way it's only 20x30m plot.

[justaguy]

Well, if he has pigs and chickens, there's no way it's only 20x30m plot.

5555 Ample room to keep a few chickens and pigs on that kind of area. Those animals generally don't need an awfull lot of space.

[cdnmatt]

I don't know, but I only have 2 dogs, and out land area is about 30x60m, and I think that's even quite small for them.
Bringing a bunch of pigs and chickens into the yard probably really wouldn't go over very well.

[Smiles]

I don't know, but I only have 2 dogs, and out land area is about 30x60m, and I think that's even quite small for them. Bringing a bunch of pigs and chickens into the yard probably really wouldn't go over very well.
Cndmatt ... the only thing you've gotten right here is "I don't know".

If Thai (or Lao) farmers find they don't have enough land for what they want to do ... they'll immediately scrounge up a friend or a neighbour or some stranger to rent them the extra land. They'll make a deal with him/her to pay in kind, or cash annually, or selling his children, or some other way of compensation. So our Lao farmer friend will do what he has to do to get enough room to put down a crop or grow some animals even though his own land is not equal to the task.
My beloved Mr Suphot is owner of 22 rai of land ... 50 % of which is rented out to other folks. It's the way of the country side.

The Lao guy we are discussing here has many options to take care of his need to have pigs and chickens and illegal Muai Thai events, even though his own actual piece of land is not enough to to so.

[cdnmatt]

Ok, now you're just going off on a totally unrelated tangent. Yes, I know, Thailand is a very communal society, especially out in the villages. They seem to understand the simple concept that the village is only as strong as its weakest link, so they take care of each other to help strenghten the village as a whole. Got it.

However, this is about getting across the Australian border by trying to convince the Australian government you have a full-put ranch with pigs and chickens on a 20x30m plot of land, which includes your house. I could be wrong, but quite certain the Aus govt won't buy it.

[arsenal]

Matt wrote:
"However, this is about getting across the Australian border by trying to convince the Australian government you have a full-put ranch with pigs and chickens on a 20x30m plot of land, which includes your house. I could be wrong, but quite certain the Aus govt won't buy it."

It depends on the asking price. ROFL.

[aarancam]

Well it has been a disaster from start to finish. Tourist visa refused twice. Meanwhile i’ve sent him a small fortune to keep him and his family going. We recently had a holiday together in Bangkok, I gave him cash and paid for everything but he was a sulking horror. After all these years I still fell for every trick in the book. Never again! You were all correct in your assumptions.

[Nirish guy]

well done for posting that, it's always hard to admit "SHIT, I've been another daft farang" - even when knowing all the ropes that are pulled to make it not appear so at the start, but at least others reading this just might stop and take a second think themselves before entering into the same situation so your hassles just might avoid someone else falling for the same nonsense. so well done for that and sorry for your troubles - but hey, all part of life rich tapestry eh and no one died so not the end of the world, dust yourself off and wait the the next guy ( and his story but I'm guessing you'll be SO ready for this one and able to see him coming a mile off now - whether he's a chancer or NOT even ! :)

[Jellybean]

I echo the sentiments expressed in the post made by NIrish-guy and would also say, well done aarancam for coming back to the forum and providing an update. I’m sorry it didn’t work out as you had hoped and it turned out to be a “disaster”.

You were not the first and won’t be the last to be misled. And, as NIrish-guy says, by posting about your experience you “just might avoid someone else falling for the same nonsense”.