newalaan2
June 10th, 2017, 19:48
The thread title has a little irony and sarcasm...but to what extent? I noticed a thread on Gaybutt's Blog about the relatively new bar in Bztown, Prisma, who recently changed from Host Bar format to AgoGo. (I probably would have replied over there but don't have a 'current' handle as I didn't re-join after the last gaybutt handle deletion.....I've had about a dozen(+?) over the years, so posted here) and a comment from one poster catawampuscat I think? who mentioned the hideous Liela is now mamasan there and it got me to thinking about the actual 'value' of mamasans to the bar trade. I have never had any dealings with said mamasan but the poster coupled his comment about the mamasan with a comment about how good the bar was in terms of quantity and quality of the staff and thus my thoughts of value to the bars which these mamasans work in.
My own attitude was and still is that I find, in general, mamasans are a waste of space when in the bar acting as the 'go between' customer and boy. That's probably why i'll be one of the few here who don't actually know this 'Leila'.
The first year I started coming to Pattaya I did use the mamasans occasionally, that was until I found that I really didn't need their 'help'. Mainly that was because after the first couple of visits I realised I would be re-visiting regularly and decided to learn, very early on, enough Thai to get by and converse (basic) with the boys themselves. I found that apart from physically getting in the way mamasans also got in the way when translating your requirements/preferences in Lao/Issan/Thai back to the boy either genuinely or more often deliberately mis-quoting or mis-understanding what I was saying to the mamasan in the first place and therefore had not a cat's-chance-in-hell of the boy clearly understanding me. They just provided yet another layer of problematic outcomes I could do without. So managing to speak some Thai and my love of music, being able to fiddle away with guitar and through that finding my way to Thai music which was composed/constructed just like western music with lots of minor chords Em,Dm,Am,Bm and thereby attracting me to the karaokes where I could hear the new releases, album tracks, and unknown gems and therefore spending most of my 'bar time' in karaokes and clubs made the mamasans somewhat redundant for me in the bars.
That combined with the fact that I never used to take off a boy without first establishing some kind of chemistry, (there were and are too many boys available to be stuck with one with whom there is no raport) and so I needed to be talking directly to the boy. I never used to, and don't, agree anything in a bar before offing the boy, I am not fixated enough with any particular form of sex that I 'need' the boy to be performing, I am a top so always gravitated towards flexible/bottoms but usually wasn't that bothered about the actual route to climax. Having a cute willing lad and 'going with the flow' gave me much more satisfaction (and virtually no disappointment) than the 'I must have' a,b,c, ritual/necessity/list of demands! route favoured by the likes of christianpfc/latinpoxx.
Anyway, getting back to the value of mamasan question I realise many here will totally understand value to the bar in terms of mamas an, but many just don't realise the power, influence and importance of mamasans to the bar in terms of attracting and controlling the boys. The example of the aforementioned post on Gaybutt Blog Leila/hideous and vibrant bar with great staff seem two extreme positive and negative aspects about that bar, but more probably that two extremes come together with that mamasan and without the 'hidious' Leila that excellent staff might not even be there to off. And this is the contradiction of the mamasans influence. Behind the scenes they are vital, many farang-owned bars simply would not and could not ever have existed without a close relationship with a Thai mamasan. Sure they come in different forms (like normal folks) and guises, from nice affable unobtrusive to fucking irritations, whining for tips and drinks, but without them certainly in the past, no successful bar could possibly have existed.
I don't really know what their modern influence is now but thinking of the memoirs of my first few years visiting Thailand and particularly Pattaya their importance to me personally was the difference between having the time of my life and having to navigate the bar industry as many have had to do with lots of ups and downs. To me they were a fasttrack to the some of the nicest, most attractive boys available. While many complain about the downhill trend of the bars nowadays, while I too agree, my main source for offing/finding boys during the first few years end 1999- to about 2006-7 in fact were NOT the host/agogo bars,about 90% of my liaisons came from the karaoke bars and clubs as opposed to directly offing from bars. Yes I used to visit the bars all the time but only offed a boy if I got on with him very well or he was exceptionally cute. Back then the choice of very cute boys available was so vast that everybody was able to be very choosey if they wanted to be. The karaokes and club contacts were mainly due to mamasan contacts. Until you have visited a karaoke or club/disco venue with a popular mamasan you will have no idea just how far their influence permeates.
The other great thing for me regarding the mamasan friendships was their connection to non-scene available attractive and cute gay boys who were on the periphery of the barboy/karaoke/massage scene. I went with so many boys I would never ever see in any of the host or gogo bars but who were available to me on the same tip basis as the barboys, but often the tip asked or needed was a fraction of that of a proper bar off. I was more than happy to pay going rates and rejected all offers of 'free' liaisons as I do now. I want to be in control of events during and more importantly after any sexual favours, I really didn't want any guilt, emotional blackmail or feeling there needed to be a return of favour hanging around with the boys I liked. I much preferred the customer-boysex for sale relationship. Mainly because I don't want that emotional pressure, boyfriends, giks or whatever...my visits were 3-4 times per year 2-4 weeks a time and I didn't want un-necessary complications with drama queens/clingy boys as I wanted to maximise my time the way I wanted to enjoy it. I had seen FAR too many westerners being forced/emotionally conned into non-existent (from the boys point of view) 'relationships' and the likes. Way too complicated for my requirements, time and patience.
I had very close and good relationships with just a few mamasans but they were all I needed. Joy from Sundance and later Sundance Karaoke as well as a couple of the other Day/Night Soi 1 karakoke mamasans who often doubled working in agogos, heading to the karaokes after the bars closed were the ones I had very good relatonships. Tum the mamasan of Gentleman Club was a favourite. His attitude to the type boys in that bar was actually polar opposite to the farang who actually owned the bar, Tum preferred the more manly,mature lads, but it was a good place for him and 'Oh' the DJ to work as it was a lovely little bar aesthetically as it was well looked after (best toilets in Pattaya!) and apart from their differences of taste in boys Tum was usually left to 'get on' with keeping the wheels oiled. He often would use me to visit other bars to check out the 'competition', just as I used him to attract some gorgeous boys in the clubs when he visited with me (all much to the annoyance of MrR the bar owner whom I didn't like...and his feeling towards me probaly likewise) but very often even during a rant from MrR Tum would simply walk away or ignore him completely. Many farang customers who didn't get to know Tum found him unsmiling, and a bit downbeat some of the time but that was just 'his way' but he had a fantastic sense of humour and was extremely witty and funny. He took me to my first Disco in Pattaya called 'Disco Duck' as well as introducing me to others such as 7th Hole, Hollywood, Mummy, Maya etc..
Anyway in a nutshell all I'm saying is that we westerners/customers/farangs have more to be thankful for in terms of what they provide for us in the bars versus the 'negative' personal dealings we have to put up with in dealing (or not)with them face to face.
So next trip I'll raise a glass ('to' not 'with') all those dodgy, iffy, begging, irritating and wonderful breed of Thai bar industry essentials....the mamasans.
That went on quite a bit longer than intended but I know viewers are perfectly capable of ignoring the boring bits, and its a while since I posted and that along with a Thailand trip due in a few days and so trying to catch up with Thailand 'news' added to the very encouraging news of Moses taking over the whole forum/website found myself somewhat enthused, thus a bit of an outpouring. Typed hastily so no need to point out spelling errors etc..
My own attitude was and still is that I find, in general, mamasans are a waste of space when in the bar acting as the 'go between' customer and boy. That's probably why i'll be one of the few here who don't actually know this 'Leila'.
The first year I started coming to Pattaya I did use the mamasans occasionally, that was until I found that I really didn't need their 'help'. Mainly that was because after the first couple of visits I realised I would be re-visiting regularly and decided to learn, very early on, enough Thai to get by and converse (basic) with the boys themselves. I found that apart from physically getting in the way mamasans also got in the way when translating your requirements/preferences in Lao/Issan/Thai back to the boy either genuinely or more often deliberately mis-quoting or mis-understanding what I was saying to the mamasan in the first place and therefore had not a cat's-chance-in-hell of the boy clearly understanding me. They just provided yet another layer of problematic outcomes I could do without. So managing to speak some Thai and my love of music, being able to fiddle away with guitar and through that finding my way to Thai music which was composed/constructed just like western music with lots of minor chords Em,Dm,Am,Bm and thereby attracting me to the karaokes where I could hear the new releases, album tracks, and unknown gems and therefore spending most of my 'bar time' in karaokes and clubs made the mamasans somewhat redundant for me in the bars.
That combined with the fact that I never used to take off a boy without first establishing some kind of chemistry, (there were and are too many boys available to be stuck with one with whom there is no raport) and so I needed to be talking directly to the boy. I never used to, and don't, agree anything in a bar before offing the boy, I am not fixated enough with any particular form of sex that I 'need' the boy to be performing, I am a top so always gravitated towards flexible/bottoms but usually wasn't that bothered about the actual route to climax. Having a cute willing lad and 'going with the flow' gave me much more satisfaction (and virtually no disappointment) than the 'I must have' a,b,c, ritual/necessity/list of demands! route favoured by the likes of christianpfc/latinpoxx.
Anyway, getting back to the value of mamasan question I realise many here will totally understand value to the bar in terms of mamas an, but many just don't realise the power, influence and importance of mamasans to the bar in terms of attracting and controlling the boys. The example of the aforementioned post on Gaybutt Blog Leila/hideous and vibrant bar with great staff seem two extreme positive and negative aspects about that bar, but more probably that two extremes come together with that mamasan and without the 'hidious' Leila that excellent staff might not even be there to off. And this is the contradiction of the mamasans influence. Behind the scenes they are vital, many farang-owned bars simply would not and could not ever have existed without a close relationship with a Thai mamasan. Sure they come in different forms (like normal folks) and guises, from nice affable unobtrusive to fucking irritations, whining for tips and drinks, but without them certainly in the past, no successful bar could possibly have existed.
I don't really know what their modern influence is now but thinking of the memoirs of my first few years visiting Thailand and particularly Pattaya their importance to me personally was the difference between having the time of my life and having to navigate the bar industry as many have had to do with lots of ups and downs. To me they were a fasttrack to the some of the nicest, most attractive boys available. While many complain about the downhill trend of the bars nowadays, while I too agree, my main source for offing/finding boys during the first few years end 1999- to about 2006-7 in fact were NOT the host/agogo bars,about 90% of my liaisons came from the karaoke bars and clubs as opposed to directly offing from bars. Yes I used to visit the bars all the time but only offed a boy if I got on with him very well or he was exceptionally cute. Back then the choice of very cute boys available was so vast that everybody was able to be very choosey if they wanted to be. The karaokes and club contacts were mainly due to mamasan contacts. Until you have visited a karaoke or club/disco venue with a popular mamasan you will have no idea just how far their influence permeates.
The other great thing for me regarding the mamasan friendships was their connection to non-scene available attractive and cute gay boys who were on the periphery of the barboy/karaoke/massage scene. I went with so many boys I would never ever see in any of the host or gogo bars but who were available to me on the same tip basis as the barboys, but often the tip asked or needed was a fraction of that of a proper bar off. I was more than happy to pay going rates and rejected all offers of 'free' liaisons as I do now. I want to be in control of events during and more importantly after any sexual favours, I really didn't want any guilt, emotional blackmail or feeling there needed to be a return of favour hanging around with the boys I liked. I much preferred the customer-boysex for sale relationship. Mainly because I don't want that emotional pressure, boyfriends, giks or whatever...my visits were 3-4 times per year 2-4 weeks a time and I didn't want un-necessary complications with drama queens/clingy boys as I wanted to maximise my time the way I wanted to enjoy it. I had seen FAR too many westerners being forced/emotionally conned into non-existent (from the boys point of view) 'relationships' and the likes. Way too complicated for my requirements, time and patience.
I had very close and good relationships with just a few mamasans but they were all I needed. Joy from Sundance and later Sundance Karaoke as well as a couple of the other Day/Night Soi 1 karakoke mamasans who often doubled working in agogos, heading to the karaokes after the bars closed were the ones I had very good relatonships. Tum the mamasan of Gentleman Club was a favourite. His attitude to the type boys in that bar was actually polar opposite to the farang who actually owned the bar, Tum preferred the more manly,mature lads, but it was a good place for him and 'Oh' the DJ to work as it was a lovely little bar aesthetically as it was well looked after (best toilets in Pattaya!) and apart from their differences of taste in boys Tum was usually left to 'get on' with keeping the wheels oiled. He often would use me to visit other bars to check out the 'competition', just as I used him to attract some gorgeous boys in the clubs when he visited with me (all much to the annoyance of MrR the bar owner whom I didn't like...and his feeling towards me probaly likewise) but very often even during a rant from MrR Tum would simply walk away or ignore him completely. Many farang customers who didn't get to know Tum found him unsmiling, and a bit downbeat some of the time but that was just 'his way' but he had a fantastic sense of humour and was extremely witty and funny. He took me to my first Disco in Pattaya called 'Disco Duck' as well as introducing me to others such as 7th Hole, Hollywood, Mummy, Maya etc..
Anyway in a nutshell all I'm saying is that we westerners/customers/farangs have more to be thankful for in terms of what they provide for us in the bars versus the 'negative' personal dealings we have to put up with in dealing (or not)with them face to face.
So next trip I'll raise a glass ('to' not 'with') all those dodgy, iffy, begging, irritating and wonderful breed of Thai bar industry essentials....the mamasans.
That went on quite a bit longer than intended but I know viewers are perfectly capable of ignoring the boring bits, and its a while since I posted and that along with a Thailand trip due in a few days and so trying to catch up with Thailand 'news' added to the very encouraging news of Moses taking over the whole forum/website found myself somewhat enthused, thus a bit of an outpouring. Typed hastily so no need to point out spelling errors etc..