Something fishy about Scottish independence?

[frequent]

Apart from Salmon(d) and Sturgeon, the latter boldly proclaiming that (Mother Theresa) May's calling of an election meant that "[her] attempt to block our mandate to hold another referendum when the time is right will crumble to dust", the polls in Scotland suggest that the fishing nets of reality may be catching up with the Scottish Nationalists.

On Monday Sturgeon proclaimed that the election would not decide whether Scotland becomes independent; rather it was about standing up to the Tories (led by that wicked, wicked lesbian Ruth Davidson who is so wicked she can't see that lesbians should only support "progressive" political parties but who seems to be helping the Tories win possibly seven to ten seats for Scottish electorates at Westminster (currently they have none)). Then on Tuesday Sturgeon cancelled the address she was to give to the Scottish parliament on the next steps towards getting a second referendum (postponed until after the election says a spokesperson).

[frequent]

Again you (like others on this forum) show you know absolutely nothing about Scottish Politics - which would be fine if you did not utterly delude yourself that knowing absolutely nothing still entitles you to make any semblance of valid comment on the subject.
Are you able to supply some links?

You do understand I'm completely on the side of independence for Scotland, don't you? Anything for a laugh

[scottish-guy]

Again you (like others on this forum) show you know absolutely nothing about Scottish Politics - which would be fine if you did not utterly delude yourself that knowing absolutely nothing still entitles you to make any semblance of valid comment on the subject.

The "Electoral" mandate for #indyref2 was secured at the last Scottish General Election (2015) when it appeared in the SNP manifesto and the SNP won 63 seats as against their nearest rival's 31 seats.

Now, have you understood that? 63 is more than 31, it's more than double, got it? Good!

That "Electoral" mandate was further stengthened when the all-party Scottish Parliament voted in favour of #indyref2 just a few weeks ago. That secured a "Parliamentary" mandate, although you wouldn't know that from the British state broadcaster or the "free" press who seem to be "free" mainly to print lies.

So, Ms Sturgeon is quite correct to say that the forthcoming UK GE is not about #indyref2 - the DUAL mandate for that is already in place and unless May comes out of hiding to abolish the Scottish Parliament (which we were assured in the original #indyref that if we only voted "NO" it could never be abolished) then there is no way that the dual mandate can be thwarted in the long-term as it is the democratically expressed will of the people and as such must ultimately prevail.

Secondly, the idea that Ms Strugeon, Mr Salmond, or indeed the SNP is/are soiling themselves at the prospect of the Tories (possibly) winning 7-10 Scottish seats in the forthcoming UK GE, when the SNP currently hold over FIVE TIMES as many is taking your Rule Britannia fantasy to a whole new level altogether.

So my advice to you and the other self-appointed experts in Scottish politics on this forum is to do considerably less opinionating and considerably more wanking. Onanism is where your real talent lies and here's a visual aid to help you:

4511


:D

[scottish-guy]

Are you able to supply some links?

Links to what? Your ignorance?

You display that with your every post on the subject

[frequent]

Links to what? Your ignorance?
No no, dear boy, to support your assertions

[frequent]

4512

"No tongues, dear, please"

[scottish-guy]

No biggie - we know even lizards have sex.

In the cae of these two they're sex maniacs - they both want to fuck the poor, the sick, the disabled .......even the pensioners now.

It's just the way of the Nasty Party

[frequent]

No biggie - we know even lizards have sex.

In the cae of these two they're sex maniacs - they both want to fuck the poor, the sick, the disabled .......even the pensioners now.

It's just the way of the Nasty Party
I see Trump claimed that his first 100 days were "nothing short of historic". Reading your SNP rants I understand why his followers believe him - the same mentality pervades

[arsenal]

The SNP are zealots, similar to those found in the middle East. Rational thought rarely enters their minds. The inherent clash between the demands to be a free and independent nation and their on their knees begging to Brussels to be allowed special status is crystal clear. Anyway it doesn't matter. May can run rings around Sturgeon both with real power and political ability.

[scottish-guy]

I seem to recall the last person who "was on their knees to the EU, begging for special status" was a certain Mr D Cameron.

But don't let the truth get in the way of your " British Nationalism = Good. Any other kind = Bad" shtick

[scottish-guy]

4513

[arsenal]

Well Scottish, history might show that David Cameron was trying to save the EU from themselves.

[scottish-guy]

Or not.

[arsenal]

A disappointing night for the SNP after the local elections. Is this the beginning of the end? We'll know more on June 9 but it's possible this is the start of the decline. I suspect many Scots will never forgive Sturgeon for making the nation look small and desperate following Brexit.

[scottish-guy]

You see, this is the problem when you believe the State broadcaster's pish.

At one point the BBC newspaper review even announced "The SNP lost Glasgow" and all day they spun the line "the Conservatives have won a seat in the most deprived part of Glasgow", when the truth is:

a) the SNP won Glasgow for the first time in history, ending 40 yrs of Labour rule
b) the Convervatives "won" that particular seat via Single Transferable Vote in a multi-member Council Ward by securing 9% (yes 9%) of the votes. Plus the seat (in Ferguslie Park ward) is not even in Glasgow, it's in Paisley

The graphic below represents the actual story of the night, and (fuck me!) it's from The Telegraph. I may have to adjust my opinion of it.

4516

Now, if you can tell me in which way the SNP had a disappointing night (425 Council seats last time and 431 this time) I'd be very interested.

As regards any implications for #indyref2 - there aren't any, but if you insist:

The Tories stood explicity on a platform of NO INDYREF#2 and as you can clearly see, despite taking the crumbling Labour vote they still lost and by a very wide margin. Will they be shouting "Respect the result"? I doubt it.

Whilst I recognise that the Tories fucked Labour good and proper - it's easy to see who the winner of the elections is.

Unless of course in the parallel universe Arsenal inhabits the party with 276 seats somehow beat the party with 431

4517

[arsenal]

See you on June 8 Scotty. If the SNP loses just a couple of seats then the game's up. But then you know that anyway.

[scottish-guy]

FYI - a majority of Scottish seats at Westminster is 30, that's all that's required to have a mandate in the wonderful British parliamentary system you love to tell us about.

You stood alongside your life-size cardboard cutout of HM Queen, waved your Union Jack, and sang Land of Hope and Glory all through the David Cameron era when he did not even have a majority in his own right.

Now you're suggesting that the rules for the SNP are somehow different and that we require to win 54 seats out of 59?

You think that argument is in any way credible?

As you can see above, the Labour vote has collapsed and gone to the Tories and this may enable them to win a handful of seats. One of those may well be the seat of the last remaining Labour MP in Scotland.

My prediction is SNP 50, TORY 8, LAB 0, LIB 1

Only in the feeble, pathetic and broken-down mind of a raving British Nationalist could that be recognised as anything other than a tremendous victory for the SNP

[arsenal]

It's not about that. It's about peaking and then a slow decline. I suspect that Sturgeon knows that and said as much when she described the coming election as:
“not about independence or about another referendum”. But I would argue otherwise because if you start losing seats to the Tories then where do you go from there?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/30/snp-denies-split-over-general-elections-impact-on-independence-vote

[scottish-guy]

Well if you want to use quotes, I can do that too :D

4518

Happy Fapping!

[arsenal]

My quote from last week . Yours from 40 years ago. Mmmmm. Something from William Wallace perhaps?

[scottish-guy]

Alternatively, your quote (which I didn't even bother reading) from a irrelevant newspaper, my quote from your very own hero

[arsenal]

Your party's leader actually. Already setting the groundwork for disappointment? Without enthusiasm for the cause there's nothing left. Perhaps she's worried that this election might turn out to be a referendum...on her and her government.

[scottish-guy]

I still haven't read your article but I'd imagine she's saying that the mandate for Indyref2 has already been won in the last UK GE and the last Scottish GE where it appeared in the manifesto they were elected on. The proposal for Indyref2 has also been passed by the Scottish Parliament - which we were assured in 2014 is the most powerful devolved parliament in the world - and therefore she does not recognise that she needs any further mandate.

However I'm interested in your idea of the upcoming GE being a referendum on NS and her Govt - so, if and when she wins handsomely you'll obviously acknowledge that as an endorsement then?

You know - in the same way as you'll undoubtedly claim any victory for May - irrespective of whether it's by 10 seats or 200 seats as an endorsement of her and her Govt?

No I didn't think so.

You're tying yourself in knots and really don't deserve to be taken seriously on these matters.

:lol:

[arsenal]

May will win overall. Sturgeon will win in Scotland. But Sturgeon doesn't just need to win, she needs to maintain or better the results of 2015. Otherwise momentum will slip away. If the Tories or Labour take half a dozen seats in Scotland then the possibility of another referendum is all but finished. Smaller political parties have moments but those moments don't last very long. They either achieve success (UKIP) or they fade away (SDP). But if you're downplaying your terms of success already then I think that speaks volumes. Shall we just agree to disagree and wait until June 9 to find out.

[scottish-guy]

No. let's not - because I don't accept or even respect your weasel-worded interpretation of what constitutes a mandate.

Since when was a mandate for Govt decided by "momentum"? In our Parliamentary system it's decided by results - by the numbers of bums on seats.

Thus it doesn't matter a fuck if Theresa May is returned with a majority of 1 - she would still have won and you are the very person who would make that point.

Perversely, you are now trying to hawk the totally ludicrous proposition that if the result in Scotland is SNP 50 v Assorted Cunts 9, then somehow the Assorted Cunts have won and the SNP has lost.

Get yourself to fuck.

[arsenal]

Perhaps the huge gains the SNP made in 2015 were a political blip. A vote against Labour rather than a vote for your party. Screaming and using most ungentlemenly language won't change that if it's the case. I suspect that you know this, but of course you can't say so publicly, I understand that.

[arsenal]

News just in. A backlash?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39830297

[justaguy]

Who cares, the Scottish people now have a valid reason to separate from the other English/Welsh/N. Irish who stupidly decided to leave the EU. That decision, whilst democratically determined, is going to cost them an arm and a leg. I welcome the Scottish to the EU. I know the running joke of the Scottish being kineow, but they are welcome nevertheless...

[frequent]

But will there be any Scots left to vote? http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-39830113

[frequent]

I welcome the Scottish to the EU.Perhaps you could outline the mechanism by which Scotland will be joining the EU?

[frequent]

No. let's not - because I don't accept or even respect your weasel-worded interpretation of what constitutes a mandate.
The reality is that - apart from a single question, binary-answer referendum - there's no such as a mandate except in the fevered imagination of the winning party and its one-eyed supporters. If an incumbent governing party goes to an election with a shopping list of proposals - or even one proposal - and then has their substantial majority cut to one, do they have a mandate for anything at all??

[arsenal]

Here's another one for you to not read. But not reading it won't make it less true

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/05/nicola-sturgeon-snp-election-results-conservatives-labour

[justaguy]

Perhaps you could outline the mechanism by which Scotland will be joining the EU?

As of now, they haven't left yet.

[arsenal]

Justaguy wrote:
"As of now, they haven't left yet."

Well in fact Scotland never actually joined, The UK did. Under the laughably absurd proposal by Sturgeon, Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland could remain members of the EU while The UK leaves.

[frequent]

As of now, they haven't left yet.Ever the deep thinker

[scottish-guy]

..Under the laughably absurd proposal by Sturgeon, Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland could remain members of the EU while The UK leaves.

If you actually wish to be taken seriously , you need start informing yourself much, much better.

However I suspect it's just sheer mendacity on your part, so you need to stop just plain fucking lying about stuff you clearly know nothing about

The proposal set out a range of options - from Scotland remaining in the EU to the red line position that Scotland should remain in EFTA (i.e. the customs union) while the UK left the EU. The First Minister of Scotland made no proposals for N Ireland or Wales or England as a unitary state.

The proposals (for Scotland) were described within the EU as perfectly workable given political will. The UK Govt vetoed the document of course.

"Professor Miguel Poiares Maduro, a former Advocate General at the European Court of Justice, said Scotland could have thrived if the UK Government had allowed them to stay in the EU.

The Scottish Governmnet had proposed a deal which would have allowed Scotland to remain in the single market after the rest of the UK leaves the EU , but Tory Brexit minister David Davis ruled it out, calling it unworkable

" Prof Maduro, was giving evidence to the European Parliament’s committee on Constitutional Affairs/ He told the committee: “There is another possibility that is to have that some UK citizens maintain citizenship of the European Union and other won’t.”

He added: “Nothing prevents a part of the United Kingdom to stay and another part of the United Kingdom to leave. We have a precedent with that — it’s called Greenland.”

Prof Maduro then went on to say: “We have the case of one member state where part of its territory left the European Union and the other part stayed. So in principle nothing would prevent the territories, for example, of Northern Ireland and Scotland to stay in the European Union and for the rest of the territory of the United kingdom no longer to be part of the EU.

“Of course this will be complex to organise in practice....but it will not be impossible."

[arsenal]

Scottish wrote:
"The proposal set out a range of options - from Scotland remaining in the EU.".....

That's what I said. So if Scotland can remain in the EU then so can the three other countries that make up The UK. While The UK leaves. Fucking ridiculous but then Sturgeon is losing credibility almost by the day.

[scottish-guy]

Here's another one for you to not read. But not reading it won't make it less true

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/05/nicola-sturgeon-snp-election-results-conservatives-labour

Did the Tories not declare victory in 2015 despite having no overall majority? It's called a Hung Parliament and it has happened at least 3 times in living memory.

At other times elected Governments lose their overall majority but still carry on.

Councils up and down the UK routinely operate where no party has an overall majority

The lack of an overall majority does not mean you did not win the election - as you well know - so this is yet more mendacity from the board's resident "Blood and Soil" Ultra Brit Nat.

The figures Arse-Piece won't tell you.

2012 Council Elections:
SNP 425 seats = 34.8%
2nd party (LAB) 394 seats = 32.2%

2017 Council Elections:
SNP 431 seats = 35.1%
2nd party (Tory) 276 seats = 22.5%

Tell me again : WHO WON?

[frequent]

It's called a Hung ParliamentMind-boggling - a "hung (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hung)" parliament you say?

[arsenal]

In Blackaddder Goes Forth, General Melchett thought that shouting would win the war. "Baaah." Now Scottish thinks doing the same will stop the decline of his party. It won't. It's INEVITABLE.

[scottish-guy]

Scottish wrote:
"The proposal set out a range of options - from Scotland remaining in the EU.".....

That's what I said. So if Scotland can remain in the EU then so can the three other countries that make up The UK..

Sorry - why would the "three other countries" want or apply to do that?
Did I miss the part where England or Wales voted to stay in the EU?
Did I dream the English and Welsh had not only voted to leave but by sheer force of numbers dragged the rest of us out against our democratically expressed will?
I exclude the NIrish - I ain't getting involved in that can of worms!

You are a blood and soil British Nationalist - just admit it.
You despise immigrants, the poor, the disabled.
You are happy to support a Government that takes benefits from sick and disabled people to fund tax cuts for millionaires.
A Govt which forces working women with 3 kids to prove that the 3rd kid was a product of rape in order to claim a £10 a week Tax Credit.
You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

[arsenal]

Scottish: I voted to remain and have voted for both Labour and Conservatives in the past. Your above post is unbecoming.

As the light of day wakens the morning perhaps you might like to have it removed. Or not. But the only one who looks terrible because of it is you.

[scottish-guy]

It's still light - and I stand by my observations

[arsenal]

Then I'm guessing you've spent the time contemplating what you suspect might happen on June 8. You're too shrewd a political watcher to not see the train wreck your party could become. Because the 55% who voted against Scottish independence still live there.

[arsenal]

Electoral support for the SNP falling away.

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls_scot.html

[scottish-guy]

....the 55% who voted against Scottish independence still live there.


Yes they do, but that (notional) 55% is split between 3 Unionist parties - and what we have seen this week is a re-alignment of those voters as they try to hitch their wagon to the party they think will best represent their constitutional position.

That plus the effect of a single transferable vote system which allows someone to be "elected" on 10% of the vote.

The other (notional) 45% have only 1 home - and they aren't going anywhere.

Frankly I don't care how the Unionist vote carves up (as carve up it will because they're incapable of uniting, although I do expect a degree of tactical voting by them in the GE), as long as we remain the largest party with the largest vote share - you know, a sane person's definition of winning!

I really thought you were a bit shrewder than to fall for the media hype.

There is only going to be one winner in Scotland in June and it really doesn't matter if the "Scottish" Tories (who have today been exposed as being infiltrated by the repugnant Orange Order) get 1 seat or 10 seats - they'll still be on the (heavily) losing side

[arsenal]

More links will be posted throughout the campaign. Your one-stop shop for impartial SNP election news.

[arsenal]

Is this the beginning of the end for the SNP?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/797730/General-Election-2017-poll-SNP-Conservatives-Scotland-seats-Nicola-Sturgeon-YouGov

[latintopxxx]

i sincerely wish that the English were inclined to vote to leave the union...and by his I mean the union that makes up the UK. Its only the english that actually contribute....the others just take...and take...and take. ...bit like southern europe only with crappy weather and crappier mean pinched faced people.
Imagine the savings..

[scottish-guy]

Its only the english that actually contribute....the others just take...and take...and take. ...

Yet more horse-shit from Poxxxy

2013 seems to be the latest available figures.

Tax Revenue per person across the UK (Source: Institute of Fiscal Studies)

Scotland £8000
England £7500
Wales £5400
NI £5700
UK £7300

[arsenal]

The above figures should really be moved to the Fake News thread.

[scottish-guy]

Tell that to the Institute of Fiscal Studies who produced them, not me.

Which particular figures do you find it hard to accept - the Welsh one does look a tad low, so perhaps you and your new comrade-in-arms LatinPoxxx would like to start a campaign to have the Welsh expunged from Great Britain (they're not technically there in their own right anyway)