I Fell in Love on my first vist - Advice on Property please

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[marc11864-old]

I'm seriously considering relocation to BKK myself to be close to my partner. I'm anxious to read any responses here.

[Boxer]

Before you do anything come again a few times and stay for a few months if you can in high and low season. Then consider spending money. www.thiavisa.com (http://www.thiavisa.com) has everything you could want on information.

Well its been three weeks back home now after my first visit to Thailand last month. I doubt if i have gone three minutes without thinking about the place since.
I fell head over heals in love with Thailand and my plan is to move to Thailand asa financially p. Whats not to like? (apart from the heat maybe)

What I am thinking about doing is buying a condo in bangkok, but i'm unsure about a few things, these are my questions.

1/ Are there any restrictions for a farang to buy a condo in bangkok?
2/ How is the property market in Thailand, is it on the increase?
3/ How difficult is it to get a Thai Citizenship? (I'm a UK National)
4/ Can anybody reccomend some online links to buy a condo please?

Oh, and a quick thanks to the moderators and posters it eases the pain not being in Thailand to be able to read about the place, i've been reading trolling this board for a while now, and thought it was finally time i joined and said hello.
Yes, go to thaivisa.com and read it for a few years ...

Regarding your questions,

You can buy and own a condo in your name. 49 percent of most condos can be owned by foreigners.

Prices have been going up for years, however, that doesn't mean you won't be buying at the top.

Forget about getting citizenship. Why would you want that anyway? Look into what visa you can get. If you are 50 or older and have some money, you are probably set.

[TrongpaiExpat]

www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7901 (http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7901)

>1/ Are there any restrictions for a farang to buy a condo in bangkok?
No, you can gamble your money on any building in the city.

>2/ How is the property market in Thailand, is it on the increase?
The Thai property market doesn't really function. You can buy but you can't be sure if you can sell again. Fraud and mismanagement of buildings is common. Don't expect your condo to increase in value any more than a used car would. Thais like to buy new, not used. Maintenance of the building can be a problem. So can building quality even if it looks nice when new. And the market is constantly oversupplied due to all the money laundry that is going on.

>3/ How difficult is it to get a Thai Citizenship? (I'm a UK National)
Forget it.

>4/ Can anybody reccomend some online links to buy a condo please?
Rent instead. There are no particular advantages in buying. Peace of mind comes from not owning anything. As many things this is the opposite of what you are used to from home.

>1/ Are there any restrictions for a farang to buy a condo in bangkok?
No, you can gamble your money on any building in the city.

>2/ How is the property market in Thailand, is it on the increase?
The Thai property market doesn't really function. You can buy but you can't be sure if you can sell again. Fraud and mismanagement of buildings is common. Don't expect your condo to increase in value any more than a used car would. Thais like to buy new, not used. Maintenance of the building can be a problem. So can building quality even if it looks nice when new. And the market is constantly oversupplied due to all the money laundry that is going on.

>3/ How difficult is it to get a Thai Citizenship? (I'm a UK National)
Forget it.

>4/ Can anybody reccomend some online links to buy a condo please?
Rent instead. There are no particular advantages in buying. Peace of mind comes from not owning anything. As many things this is the opposite of what you are used to from home.
Hey, I own and I see the merit in Silom's negative view of buying in Thailand.
It does come down to your personal situation.
Because you generally buy a condo in Thailand for cash, if you lost it all, would that mean you would be totally ruined?
Certainly, you can't bank on the value going up over time. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
As far as the used issue for Thais, yes it is true, but then again many condos are heavily farangized, and if the price is right relative to new, assuming the building is OK, you can usually resell, but it is also true, condos are not all that liquid.
An interesting example is the Center Condo on South Pattaya Road, Pattaya.
Has anyone seen the elevators in this building? Scary! But is my understanding that the condos there are reselling quite well because of guess what, LOCATION!

One thing I would be very careful about is buying off the plan, in other words, a condo "to be" constructed.
Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but if it isn't, how are you going to get your money back?

Rather than just saying "forget it" to Thai citizenship, why not tell the op exactly what is entailed:

First: three years working legally, with work permit, paying lots of taxes, on three continuous one-year work visas;
Second: apply for permanent residence, which generaly takes two years -- during which you must continue to work legally as before
Third: wait for five years after obtaining permanent residence to apply for citizenship. In the meantime, you must have learned the Thai language (reading, writing, and speaking) to a high level of proficiency, memorized the Thai National Anthem and Royal Anthem, and shown society that you are a good person
Four: wait minimum two or three years for your citizenship to come through.

Start to finish, 12-13 years and lots of hassle. But, ultimately, worth it if you are fairly young still.

Rather than just saying "forget it" to Thai citizenship, why not tell the op exactly what is entailed:

First: three years working legally, with work permit, paying lots of taxes, on three continuous one-year work visas;
Second: apply for permanent residence, which generaly takes two years -- during which you must continue to work legally as before
Third: wait for five years after obtaining permanent residence to apply for citizenship. In the meantime, you must have learned the Thai language (reading, writing, and speaking) to a high level of proficiency, memorized the Thai National Anthem and Royal Anthem, and shown society that you are a good person
Four: wait minimum two or three years for your citizenship to come through.

Start to finish, 12-13 years and lots of hassle. But, ultimately, worth it if you are fairly young still.

This is the theory, yes. In practice you will need either luck or "influence" to get even the permanent residence. I know several people who keep applying for permanent residency, and they don't get despite the formalities being in order. But then again, another guy (a Brit) just got it, and his trick was to give his Thai lawyer 50 000 B cash and not ask who ended up with the money. Citizenship? Well if you are Tiger Woods they will throw it after you.

Silom, you are so full of shit. I have lots and lots of friends -- none wealthy or influential (including myself) -- who applied for PR on their own, without the help of any scamming lawyer or "phuyai", and received it no questions asked. In fact, I have never known any qualified individual to be turned down.

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Robhfd, the good news is you don't need Thai citizenship, or even PR, to live forever in Thailand, own a business, own a condo, etc. Read up on www.thaivisa.com (http://www.thaivisa.com) as others have suggested, and you'll get a better idea. I'd definitely spend a lot more time here first, though, before dumping your life savings in a bar.

rent first..for quite a while until you get the feel of the market.

You won't save any money by buying quickly and you have so many places to choose from if renting.

One troubling sign about the market is: if you look at all the websites advertising properties for sale you will also see in their rental section the same properties can be rented long term.

This means turnover for a property is a very very long time unless it's something very special like the new villas in Jomtien which were snapped up quickly. It also means you can find a property you were thinking of buying and rent it first to see if you like..and most owners/sellers are open to a deal later if you want to buy.

Can someone explain to me, why a UK farang would want to give up their citizenship? I am stunned to read how casually you guys are throwing the suggestion around.

No one said anything about giving up one's citizenship. We're talking about gaining Thai citizenship in addition.

Thailand protect the land, they don't want farang bey all the land. But you can bey a house and rent the land for 100 years and longer. If you like to bey a condo and more as 51 % Thais life in that building there is no problem. If you have a Thai friend and bey together and let him be owner 51 %, no problem . But before you bey take a good lawyer in Thailand and let advice you. Thai laws are not the same as in UK .


I edited 4 times, because my English is not so good, but i do my best to make it understandable

Silom, you are so full of shit. I have lots and lots of friends -- none wealthy or influential (including myself) -- who applied for PR on their own, without the help of any scamming lawyer or "phuyai", and received it no questions asked. In fact, I have never known any qualified individual to be turned down.

Thank you for that kind response. Circumstances vary, depending on who is in charge and who the applicant is, for example if he is working age or a retiree. Two of my friends have been here for a long time and were turned down just this last application round.

Now you go to where I should have known you belong, my IGNORE list. Ta ta.

I think it's more the Japanese and Chinese they worry about buying up their country than the farangs...

depending on who is in charge and who the applicant is

Not surprising, in view of the predilictions of the people Silom is likely to call his friends. Yes, they do investigate PR applicants, and they are likely to find out about certain things like...well, it's best not said.

I think that falling in love with Thailand is a wonderful concept, and it is certainly a wonderful place..but I can't help but wonder,
what experiences made you fall in love with Thailand so quickly? To me, falling in love is a long term process that comes through spending time together, finding out as many quirks and differences between you and your new love, and working through a myriad of situations both good and bad before you realize that you love the person, or in this case, the place with which you have become so enamored.

I think everyone goes through the initial romance with Thailand on their first one or even a couple of visits...and then your view becomes a bit deeper and you start to see below the surface, just like any romance with other people, once you start being around them more and more, you start to see the real person below the initial attraction that drew you in. I am certainly not in any way diminishing your feelings or right to have them, but it is a common occurrence for those just going to Thailand for the first few times.

To want to drastically alter your life based upon a one time interaction with Thailand seems a bit hasty to me and I think you would be better suited to cultivate that thought and with that in mind slowly start to acclimate yourself to the Thai culture by reading all you can on the culture, visiting often, and staying for longer terms than a normal vacation. I have personally found that you really start to get below the tourism surface when you start staying for 2, 3, or more months at a time. My visits started at 10 days in 1999, and now routinely fluctuate around the 2 to 5 month range depending on my ability to maintain control
of my business while I am there.

As a western man there are things about Thailand, and many other Asian countries, that will take some adjusting to. Things that you just don't really pay attention to unless you are there on a longer term basis.

ex; there are NO pedestrian rights per se in Thailand. Being used to a crosswalk and pedestrian walk signals being honored is something that you will have to learn to forget about at least in the cities, and it will seem at times if some taxis, or cars, or motorcycles seem intent on running you down as you simply try to cross the corner or street.

ex; there is the habit of many NOT to respect your position in a Que, say at 7-11, or the Post office, etc. There will be MANY times where they will simply cut in front of you, in front of the line, and for a western man used to line position respect, this may frustrate you also.

ex; the sidewalks will always be crowded in the cities with vendors of every color leaving minimal, if hardly any, space for pedestrian traffic. It is almost as if the sidewalk space is considered "to the vendors" as a shopping zone, and not a walking zone. Now you will have to learn to constantly navigate through not only the narrow pathways left in the sidewalks for pedestrian traffic, but you will also have to be ready for the barrage of touts that will step in your way to try to sell you tailoring, or Sex VCDs, or "happy hours", massage services and others. You will also need to be prepared for the situations where there will be several people walking much slower than you, taking up the whole sidewalk in front of you, without a care as to letting you pass. They will stop and shop, blocking the sidewalk, they will do a sudden 180 in their walking pattern and almost run into, if not actually run into you. They will walk so slowly and erratically such that you will find yourself many times just walking in the roadway to avoid this mess. (especially true in Bangkok in Silom, Sukhomvit areas, not as much in Pattaya except along beach road at night and then it is not only Thais but many other foreigners from other countries that will clog the walkway.)

ex; There will be many instances where you will be walking down the sidewalk and someone walking an intersecting path will step right in front of you, thus causing you to have to suddenly stop or change directions to avoid hitting them. ( i have never understood why they just don't wait the extra second and step behind you, choosing instead to step in front of you.. and I have to wonder each time this happens, did they not see me?")

ex; in your relationships with Thai guys, you will have to go through a process of realization that many simply consider you a walking ATM, a source of cash, a source of security financially for them and their families. It will be very very hard to learn which Thai boys like you for your heart and which like you for the prospect of money. A lot of it depends on where and how you meet them, but many times, even in the most innocuous places, meeting a Thai boy on the beach, or the roadway, or even in the mall, ( a situation that many would say is preferred because they did not meet the boy in a bar) can be deceptive, because even there, you will find it is hard to discern the real intent behind the romance. I am certainly not saying real romance can't happen, but it takes time to sort through the guys you will meet to find the ones that are truly after your heart, and truly want you as a person. Now sure, this will also entail some financial support unless he comes from a middle or upper class family (which is a rare occurrence to meet someone, gay, from an upper class income situation, with a job, that likes 35 and up farangs. I have personally found that the more upper class they are, the more western they are in some ideologies, the harder it is to find one that is remotely interested in dating farangs). You must also be prepared, if and when you do meet "boy special" that truly loves you for your heart and for who you are, to support him and his family through all kinds of bad times. You will have a hard time with this, as many do, because with some, the family problems (mother sick, house fell down, grandmother in hospital, father die, uncle cannot work, mother cannot pay for house) seem to be incessant. I'm not suggesting that all Thai boys will take advantage of you in this way, just that you should be prepared to be the financial rock for the boy's family. Once his family knows he has a foreign boyfriend, they will continually come to him for any and all requests for money, and his sense of family honor will cause him to want to help, every time, and he will worry about it, he will despair about it, and he will discuss it with you to get your opinion, and many times will simply outright just ask you for the money, which it is assumed you should give as his lover.

You should also take the time to learn the language. I think it is quite unreasonable to live in a foreign country and not learn the language. I have found that those that learn the language get far more respect, and get far more cultural awareness about the country and the way Thai people think, not to mention the ability to be able to tell when the shop vendor or others are saying less than pleasant things about you.. :).. which does happen....

I am by no stretch an expert on Thailand, but I have traveled there now about 18 times in the last 6 years and have learned many many things, but I am sure others on this board can give you many many more examples of things that you should take into consideration before making a move like this, and the advice given earlier to study, read the boards, and visit many times before taking the plunge to shake up your life and move there, is very very sound.

One thing for sure, whatever you decide to do, you will have to learn not to let Thai society frustrate you, or expect western values and rules to apply, or to show anger in public when it does frustrate or upset you. (Thai people consider public anger to be a sign of a hot heart, and you will lose respect for it). You will definitely have to become very very familiar with the meaning of Mai Pen Rai (never mind) or (it just doesn't matter).

I certainly wish you all the best in this new romance and hope that you will share with everyone here as you visit and fall in love with Thailand more. As i am sure you most certainly will...

Gayrice,

I think that your advice is very sound and there is not much to add. For me, the moment I deplane is to put in my head, "Think Thai, not American". With this in mind, I do not let the frustrations which may occur bother me.

Richard

....his trick was to give his Thai lawyer 50 000 B cash and not ask who ended up with the money.

wow....50,000 baht for permanent Thai residence status or citizenship? that is cheap!!

[cottmann]

if you become a monk first and get your abbot to sponsor you.

wow....50,000 baht for permanent Thai residence status or citizenship? that is cheap!!


It would be, if it were true.

But 50,000 baht or 100,000 or 1 million is not going to get you either PR or citizenship unless you qualify.

And if you qualify, there is no need to pay off anyone. Take it from someone who has been there, done it, and actually knows.

Becoming a Thai citizen is easy, I understand, if you become a monk first and get your abbot to sponsor you.

A common expat barstool rumor that is patently untrue.

DELETED

it's easy to read and has some great apartments.

You could also message LET ME TELL U who sells luxury condos. A friend just purchased an amazing one through him at a pretty good price.

You could also purchase one from mrsydney. His come with wall to wall straw on the floor.

... shown society that you are a good person
For most of us you could have stopped right there :cherry: