The Changes in Bangkok's Go-Go Bars

[fountainhall]

For some time, there has been discussion in all the chat rooms about the “good old days” and how much better they were then than now. Many reasons have been given but finding out each member's reasons means wading through quite a number of posts. So I thought it might be interesting to post a simple poll for those who remember the bars 20 years ago to give their reasons more concisely. I have deliberately allowed the poll to be viewed by non-members. I'm not sure if they are able to vote. If so we might obtain a better perspective.

I have deliberately left out any mention of prices. It is generally agreed that drink prices now are outrageous. Official annual Thai inflation rates since the year 1997 have varied between 8.10% in 1998 and -0.90% in 2015. Compound inflation appears to have been somewhere in the region of 70% - 80% during these 20 years. The value of the Baht has also dropped from US$1 = 25 in the years up to 1997 to Bt. 35 now.

As a very rough guide, therefore, basic costs should have gone up by at least 100% since 1997. But this excludes items like tea money payments and the likelihood of higher rents. It also omits the rise in incomes and living standards during the period throughout the country. So I have left out any mention of prices.

[Nirish guy]

Where's the box for I have no idea, I was barely even born then !! :-) ok maybe a "slight" exaggeration but still..... close enough.

[scottish-guy]

Ditto

Surely anyone old enough to remember 1997 in Thailand will be unlikely to be able to even see your poll without the aid of a very large magnifying glass?

Even then, by the time they've read the 10th option they'll have forgotten the first 9

:p

[fountainhall]

Oh, you boys are funny! :D :D You could be 40 by now - although I know that would be libellous! The poll is for those who were here 20 years or more ago. Judging from a number of lengthy threads, plenty of posters and probably also readers were around at that time to vote and make comments. Besides, if you start much later, Thaksin's Social Order campaigns come into the picture, and like it or not they did start to change the old go-go bar model.

[neddy3]

Isn't the answer all of the above choices?

[bobsaigon2]

SG- Very hurtful comments, sir. (I could not find an emoji with tears streaming down its face.) I did not need a magnifying glass. Just had to switch to my near vision lenses. Eyesight much improved after cataract surgery (in US). And surgery for a detached retina (in Vietnam). And I do have to favor my right foot because of a bit of surgery gone wrong. And then there are weakened lungs after 60 years of smoking. And the deep vein thrombosis. BUT, please be advised that I and others in the 70+ group still remember more Bangkok sexual encounters than some of our readers will ever have the chance to duplicate (a447 and N'irish are the exceptions). Now, what was the topic of this thread? Never mind. Tomorrow morning I'll think of it while taking my quite unassisted shower.

[arsenal]

Are you sure this poll is a good idea? The last time these octogenarian one foot in the grave fossils voted they chose to leave the EU.

[bobsaigon2]

In my case, that would be septuagenarian, please.

[goji]

I hadn't discovered Thailand in 1997, but have been making up for it since.

I have read reports of fully naked boys in some gogo bars. No idea if that was common, rare or the exception, but it would certainly add to the appeal.

[poshglasgow]

Ditto

Surely anyone old enough to remember 1997 in Thailand will be unlikely to be able to even see your poll without the aid of a very large magnifying glass?

Even then, by the time they've read the 10th option they'll have forgotten the first 9

:p

Which reminded me of the following in relation to age...

At age 4 success is . . . .not wetting your pants.
At age 12 success is . . . having friends.
At age 17 success is . . having a driver's licence.
At age 35 success is . . . having money.
At age 50 success is . . . having money.
At age 70 success is . .. .having a driver’s license.
At age 75 success is . . . having friends.
At age 80 success is . . . not wetting your pants.

[colmx]

I have read reports of fully naked boys in some gogo bars. No idea if that was common, rare or the exception, but it would certainly add to the appeal.

The first bar I visited in Phuket in 2001 was Super boys. All the guys on the floor were naked and sporting erections. They were swinging from the poles like monkeys!

One guy sat with me pointed at himself and said "me beer" still no idea to this day if he wanted a beer or was introducing himself as Beer! Naturally he was swiftly bought a beer!

[Tintin]

It was 1988 when I startet to spend my holidays in Thailand. And it was great. But now, whenever I mention that the bars were WAY more fun 25 years ago, people keep telling me that I was 25 years younger back then!

Which is absolutely true of course. You are more impressionable when you are young and visit a new place for the first time. Everything is striking and overwhelming when it's new for you.

But not only me grew older. The bars and their staff changed as well. Back then, the boys were playful and full of energy. They were even dancing on stage! And they did everything to get an off.

[dab69]

1997 was even before Sunee bars. BBB was there across from LCR. The baht had a great exchange rate of 42.
Wish I had started vacationing there even earlier. :)

[TaoR]

I don't know why but I keep thinking that someplace on the internet is a forum where Thai guys, Thai money boys, gogo boys, and such all share their memories of how good the good ol' days were....

They probably complain about how old all the customers are today and how cheap they are. Where they trade stories about how many water buffalo's they could score in a month...

Just imagine the sex tales they could tell. I am sure some could tell tales that would make even Latin blush....

[fountainhall]

1997 was even before Sunee bars. BBB was there across from LCR. The baht had a great exchange rate of 42.
Wish I had started vacationing there even earlier. :)
As a matter of history, the Baht was fixed to the US$ at $1 = Bt. 25 from 1984 until July 2 1997 when the Asian Economic Crisis exploded starting in Thailand. On that day the Thai government gave up all efforts to maintain the rate and it immediately crashed to 30. In then continued to slide downhill till it reached around 55 in January 1998. So before July 1997 you'd have been a lot worse off exchange-wise! On the other hand, in the years 2001 - 2003 you'd have been better off.

4310

[fountainhall]

Isn't the answer all of the above choices?
Clearly not, given the responses so far. I accept that the list of answers is the arbitrary choice of the OP (in this case me!) and none of us know how accurate the results of any such poll really are - after all we have no idea who is actually voting. It has to be based on a degree of trust. But already we can see that two issues are slightly ahead - the bars were more fun and the shows were much more interesting/sexy. I honestly don't believe this is a result of rosy-tinted spectacles. I also don't think it's a result of a less free gay atmosphere in the rest of the world. That would have been far more true of the early 1980s than the late 1990s.


I don't know why but I keep thinking that someplace on the internet is a forum where Thai guys, Thai money boys, gogo boys, and such all share their memories of how good the good ol' days were....Just imagine the sex tales they could tell. I am sure some could tell tales that would make even Latin blush....
I'm sure you and I appear in those stories somewhere!! :eek: :eek:

[a447]

Just imagine the sex tales they could tell. I am sure some could tell tales that would make even Latin blush....

My regular partners in Pattaya over the years have all been veterans of the Sunee Plaza bar scene. I've heard lots of stories about their encounters with farang customers and believe it or not, they tell me that most boys haven't had any problems of note.

The talk is based around how much the customer pays and whether or not he was a nice guy. That seems to be it.

I'm sure they've got more interesting things to talk about.

But if you ask, you'll hear some interesting stories.

[fountainhall]

But if you ask, you'll hear some interesting stories.
Back then I occasionally heard tales of boys who had an aversion to Japanese customers - not because they were not polite but because they could not understand the tipping system and often undertipped.

[frequent]

"Smartphones didn't exist back then" would be my answer. There were no alternatives to the bars

[arsenal]

a447 wrote:
"The talk is based around how much the customer pays and whether or not he was a nice guy. That seems to be it."

Exactly. Well said that man.

[bobsaigon2]

Back in the late 1990's, early 2000's, most of my offs were long time. I had more energy then and looked forward to a repeat performance in the morning before the boy left. Boys were not, as they are these days, in so much of a hurry to get back on stage and secure another customer. And in those golden years, since they were staying with you long time, some conversation did take place, in addition to the What your name / Where you from. At least the boys usually asked if you already had a Thai boyfriend, hoping to add you to their group of LDR supporters.

[Tintin]

"Smartphones didn't exist back then" would be my answer. There were no alternatives to the bars
This is certainly true.

Another factor that wasn't mentioned yet: Back then not only the staff in the bars was 100% Thai, but also the audience consisted at least partially of Thais. Many bars were mostly "by Thais for Thais". Even in Pattaya I remember several bars (such as Adam & Eve), where groups of Thai clients regularly occupied some of the tables, drinking and chatting and flirting with the boys. So when you visited such a bar, you often found yourself socializing with Thai gays. You felt like actually being in Thailand, as opposed to sitting in a tourist trap.

[AsDaRa]

This is certainly true.

Another factor that wasn't mentioned yet: Back then not only the staff in the bars was 100% Thai, but also the audience consisted at least partially of Thais. Many bars were mostly "by Thais for Thais". Even in Pattaya I remember several bars (such as Adam & Eve), where groups of Thai clients regularly occupied some of the tables, drinking and chatting and flirting with the boys. So when you visited such a bar, you often found yourself socializing with Thai gays. You felt like actually being in Thailand, as opposed to sitting in a tourist trap.

Where do these Thai gay men now go to, to off boys? I indeed never see local Thai gay men in gogo bars in the role of customer.

Also for old timers: ok, the boys were more playful back then, but the rest was the same? In other words you go sit, order drink, look, have boy over to sit with you, order him drink, decide to off him or not, virtually no contact in the bar with other customers (I rarely see in a gogo bar that customers socialize among each other), this has not changed at all?

Or - for example - you didn't need to order a drink in the past? It wasn't mandatory? Or it was common that customers socialized among themselves in these bars? Now each is on their own looking for a boy.

In short, I just want to know: the whole concept of a gogo bar has not changed? Only price has and playfulness of the boys and the number of customers in the bar? That are about the only differences?

[fountainhall]

Where do these Thai gay men now go to, to off boys? I indeed never see local Thai gay men in go-go bars in the role of customer.

Also for old timers: ok, the boys were more playful back then, but the rest was the same? In other words you go sit, order drink, look, have boy over to sit with you, order him drink, decide to off him or not, virtually no contact in the bar with other customers (I rarely see in a go-go bar that customers socialize among each other), this has not changed at all
Inevitably views will be quite personal. Yes, there were far more Thais who went to the bars, certainly during the 1980s, and you only occasionally see Thais now. As has been stated before, Thailand is at heart a very conservative society. Just as gays were mostly in the closet in western countries in the 1960s/70s, most Thai gays were also in the closet till quite a bit later. Even today, there is a large social stigma attached to being openly gay.

So although there must have been some form of gay underground before the 1970s/80s, this catered to very few Thais. The advent of bars that were openly gay and attracting farang resulted in some more openly Thai gays and others in the closet being prepared to take a risk of being "discovered" by going to these faring-type bars.

Were they more sociable? Perhaps. I certainly chatted to other customers and the boys more then than I have done more recently. The routine was virtually the same but overall there was just less pressure. Everyone accepted these were bars and it would have been ridiculous not to have at least one drink at what were very reasonable prices. Chatting with and hugging one or more boys was extremely common.

But they were not social clubs. They were, as today, sex joints dressed up as bars where guys entertained patrons. An earlier poster asked if the boys were always nude at that time. In Apollo and Twilight, the witching hour seemed to be 9:30 or 10:00 pm when the briefs came off and yes the dancers were nude. Even then, though, many of the boys covered their assets as best they could – typically Thai!

As to why very few Thais seem to go to the bars nowadays, there are no doubt several reasons. The obvious one is the ease of meeting up through the apps. Another is distance. Bangkok did not really start to develop until the 1960s. Between 1980 and 2015 the city expanded from 4.7 million to 10.2 million. Living in or near the centre is now too expensive and most gay Thais inevitably live quite far away.

But I have a theory: one of the main reasons is that what is happening here is similar to what happened a decade or two earlier in places like Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore where there was also a definite social stigma to being seen to be gay. When I first arrived in Hong Kong, for example, the vast majority of young Chinese men lived with their families in what we would regard as little more than broom cupboards. Forget the very rich who basically formulated their own rules. For the others, being gay was not really an option as there were just a couple of gay bars – both watched by the police. So it was really hard for two guys to find a place to meet alone together, let alone to have sex. Besides, wages were low and renting short-term accommodation was out of the question.

However, for the western colonial-type elite, people on expatriate terms with complimentary large apartments, good salaries and other benefits, it was far easier to take Chinese guys home since no-one would notice. So a considerable number of longer-term relationships developed between westerners and Chinese guys. When I first came to know and love Tokyo, it was the same: a large number of westerners with Japanese partners.

Note that age was not an issue at this time. It was not usually much older westerners with much younger Japanese. Indeed, good friends of mine are typical. An American/Japanese couple, they met in their late 20s in one of Tokyo’s gay bars and have been together for 32 years. There is less than five years difference in age.

When you think about it, the attractions for these young Asians were obvious. The chance to break free from their stifling home environment, to spend part of their time living openly as gay, to have a nice place to live right in the city and not far out, to go to good restaurants, take holidays overseas – and so on.

Now fast-forward a few decades. Wages throughout much of Asia are now massively higher. In a lot of cases, there is now a new generation of relatively rich and even very rich young Asians who live on their own or have room for a partner. Many more gay young men are also happy to break free from the accepted social norms. Put the two together and Asian guys realised that living a gay life did not necessarily mean hooking up with a westerner. Indeed, with expatriate terms progressively reduced or abandoned altogether throughout the region, many gay westerners are now less well off than many gay Asians.

It was therefore perfectly natural in my theory that young Asians started getting together with other young Asians. Here in Bangkok you can see it in the many saunas that have opened up that are almost exclusively Thai for Thai. It’s no accident that these are located away from the centre of the city where most Thais live. Same with the bars. The large, noisy gay bars in the Ladphrao or Ramkhamhaeng areas are packed with mostly young Thais and hardly a farang to be seen.

And the same is now true in the other cities/countries I mentioned. Go to Hong Kong’s famous Hutong sauna or Tokyo’s 24 Shinjuku and you’ll see very few westerners. Times change!

[AsDaRa]

I like your theory and it rings to my ear as possible. Nice to read that also in the past it was old Farang with young Asians and while they formally weren't prostitutes, it was all about the money and other stuff: "The chance to break free from their stifling home environment, to spend part of their time living openly as gay, to have a nice place to live right in the city and not far out, to go to good restaurants, take holidays overseas". So not real love I imagine.

The fact your friends are typical is because your friend wat at the time still in his twenties. Its normal his boyfriend is then by definition his age! (Unless you are into daddies which very few are.)

Now - if he went now with his current age to Japan for the first time - he wouldn't put an eye at his current boyfriend if his boyfriend was still in Japan and they met today for the first time and his boyfriend has his current age.

Now, we come to my theory: most gay couples of which both are say 50 are together because they want a partner, don't like being alone, want a companion, but not because they get horny from each other still. That is long gone.

One thing I am not sure about. You write "Even today, there is a large social stigma attached to being openly gay.".
Is this true? Because I know a Thai boy from rural country who is openly gay also in his home village. His sister is on his Facebook, when he go visits them he dresses gayish (he is a bit feminine, but no lady boy). It is obvious to everyone he is gay. In fact I went one time with him. They all must have known what we do at night. So this is something unusual in the conservative countrty side?

[werner]

Interesting discussion.

Oh...."the good old days", when the go-go bars were much better.

[fountainhall]

I like your theory and it rings to my ear as possible. Nice to read that also in the past it was old Farang with young Asians and while they formally weren't prostitutes, it was all about the money and other stuff: "The chance to break free from their stifling home environment, to spend part of their time living openly as gay, to have a nice place to live right in the city and not far out, to go to good restaurants, take holidays overseas". So not real love I imagine.
I don't think you actually read what I wrote! Where did I mention that in the past it was "old Farang with young Asians"? I didn't! The farang I remember in the bars on the 1980s were a great deal younger on average than today.

As for my "theory", again I was quite specific in saying there was generally not much difference in age. And where did I suggest that such relationships were not based on love? I didn't! As I am sure you are aware, sometimes love between two people whatever their sexes occurs quickly. Sometimes it happens over time. If you are suggesting there was no love or not real love between my American and Japanese friends and other similar relationships, then you are absolutely wrong! I knew a British/Chinese couple in Hong Kong who lived close to me and had been together for 10 years. Sometimes we'd all come to Bangkok and would go together to Barbiery to see the shows. For some reason even I never discovered, the British guy broke off the relationship and later got married and had children. His Chinese partner was devastated for he was totally in love with and devoted to his partner. Incidentally, they were also around the same age.

As for gay relationships, I tend to agree with you - but not specifically as regards age. I think most gay couples tend to be faithful to each other for a period of years - and that is based on love. Eventually (it could be 5 years, 7, 10 - I don't think there is any specific period) many relationships become more open and each partner will occasionally seek a sexual outlet with other guys. But - and this is where you are so fundamentally wrong - that does not mean each is only in the relationship for company, nor that thereafter they refrain from sex with each other.

Since you are so keen to learn about Thailand, why don't you read some books on the country and the LGBT movement here? Here are a couple of short excerpts from the United Nations Development Programme 2014 Report “Being LGBT in Asia: Thailand Country Report”.


There is a great juxtaposition between how Thailand is portrayed globally as a haven for LGBT tourism and the actual acceptance of LGBT persons within Thailand itself . . . While there is some appearance of acceptance for LGBT persons in Thai society, many face discrimination from family, education, media, legal, government, economic and religious structures, institutions and establishments . . .

Thai society does not wholly accept sexual and gender minorities. Attitudes towards LGBT individuals can be somewhat tolerant as long as LGBT people remain within certain social confines. Hostile attitudes may lurk below the surface of individuals and parts of society that do not express their views openly
So please never assume that whatever you may have experienced necessarily means that that one particular instance becomes a general truth.

[AsDaRa]

Sorry. I misread indeed about the old Farang versus younger Thai.

[arsenal]

There are places that only cater for Thais, both men and women. You'll never find them and even if you do, they won't let you in.

[christianpfc]

It is generally agreed that drink prices now are outrageous. Official annual Thai inflation rates since the year 1997 have varied between 8.10% in 1998 and -0.90% in 2015. Compound inflation appears to have been somewhere in the region of 70% - 80% during these 20 years.

As a very rough guide, therefore, basic costs should have gone up by at least 100% since 1997. But this excludes items like tea money payments and the likelihood of higher rents. It also omits the rise in incomes and living standards during the period throughout the country. So I have left out any mention of prices.

Drink prices rose much more than inflation elsewhere:
http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2015/05/germany-and-thailand-inflation-and.html

Inflation in Thailand

Restricted to Soi Twilight drink prices as I have no data for other commodities. Prices for May 2010 from here:
http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2013/10/shameless-mack-fragment-found.html compared to prices May 2015

Dream Boys 300 to 450 increase 8% per year
X-Boys 220 to 350 Baht 10%
Screw Boys 200 to 300 Baht 8%

Extrapolating this for 20 years, drink prices increased fivefold, whereas general inflation is twofold (taking fountainhalls estimation from above).


Back then not only the staff in the bars was 100% Thai, but also the audience consisted at least partially of Thais. Many bars were mostly "by Thais for Thais". Even in Pattaya I remember several bars (such as Adam & Eve), where groups of Thai clients regularly occupied some of the tables, drinking and chatting and flirting with the boys. So when you visited such a bar, you often found yourself socializing with Thai gays. You felt like actually being in Thailand, as opposed to sitting in a tourist trap.
See above. Locals have been outpriced. Even I have been outpriced.


The large, noisy gay bars in the Ladphrao or Ramkhamhaeng areas are packed with mostly young Thais and hardly a farang to be seen.
I don't know if there ever was a gay disco in Ladprao. The gay discos in Ramkhamhaeng Soi 89/2 are now all gone. When I first went in 2010, it was busy with several venues, and in Dec 2015, the last one closed http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2014/09/wave-club-ramkhamhaeng-892.html
Now most activity is in Ratchada, and some activity in Sake and Welcome.

[fountainhall]

I don't know if there ever was a gay disco in Ladprao. The gay discos in Ramkhamhaeng Soi 89/2 are now all gone..
I was talking about gay bars - not discos. I have been to large bars in both locations although not in the last year or so. Are the gay bars in those two areas now all dead?

[christianpfc]

I am not aware of any gay bars with locals similar to those in Silom Soi 4 (mainly foreigners as customers).

[fountainhall]

I don't know any either! I was talking about gay bars exclusively for locals, mostly young Thais.

[loke]

I can only go back to 2007 and it was more fun back then. More interesting shows for sure, And no facebook , no apps so the boys needed to use their eyes to catch us,,

[fountainhall]

Please remember that whilst facebook and the apps were not in existence, sites like gay romeo, gaydar, gay.com, and at least a couple of Thai sites with text in English were available on the internet. It was pretty easy fixing hook-ups if you had the time.

[werner]

Bangkok's go-go bars were probably at their peak/heyday in the early 1990's -- about 1992 rather than in 1997....

[fountainhall]

I more or less agree. I'd put the peak between about 1987 and 1994 or thereabouts. But I had to select some arbitrary start point. We now have 22 voting. If I had started the poll at 1990, I'll bet we would be well short of that 22!

I'll leave comments on the poll itself until until after the closing date. But I think the results are already telling us what the bars today are lacking.

[Tintin]

Please remember that whilst facebook and the apps were not in existence, sites like gay romeo, gaydar, gay.com, and at least a couple of Thai sites with text in English were available on the internet. It was pretty easy fixing hook-ups if you had the time.

Are you sure? Of course there were no dating apps back then. The original iPhone was introduced 2007! But also the rise of the dating sites on the internet came later.

From the gayromeo website https://www.planetromeo.com/en/about/

How it all started... After a very unsatisfying stay in rainy London back in 2001 (yes we are that old), Jens – our founder – came up with the idea to create a simple and friendly dating website for gays... “GAYROMEO” started as a hobby and slowly became the number 1 gay platform in Germany and later in Europe. In 2009, we merged with an Asian website and became popular there in many countries overnight.

There were internet cafes in 2007. Gayromeo and other platforms did exist and some of us were using it. But I doubt that a typical bar boy from Isarn had access to a computer with internet and an account at a dating website. The bars were still internet-free!

[fountainhall]

Are you sure?
Yes, I'm 100% positive! And I say that because I was chatting on the internet in Hong Kong with Thai guys in 1999 and 2000 whom I'd later meet.

No apps, that's for sure, but there were several sites on the internet. I have mentioned gay.com which was certainly going well before the I-Phone. I read it was launched in 1997. Gaydar was also on the go. The Asian chat/dating site fridae.com was also up and running at least as early as 2002 if not earlier, as were at least 2 Thai sites where guys could put up their photos and details and chat was often not difficult. I found one of my bfs on such a site.

But certainly no mobiles in the bars!!

[Tintin]

I found one of my bfs on such a site.

I don't doubt that at all! Dating sites existed. But I don't believe they affected the bars that much. Because the average bar boy was simply not aware of them.


But certainly no mobiles in the bars!!

Yes! Since then, the availability of smartphones (and the affluence of many to buy one) had a huge impact on the bars.

[fountainhall]

The poll has now closed - and the result? Well, you can’t really base conclusions with only 23 responses. There are about 1,000 members listed here and vastly more readers. Even if the non-members could not vote, a response of just under 2% is pretty meaningless. No doubt the time span of 20 years was overlong, but the reasons for that were outlined early in the thread.

Three of the ten possible answers tied as the most popular. The one obvious factor seems to be that the bars were more fun (which I believe they definitely were - and this included the shows being much sexier which they also were) and there being a better selection of boys. I could have added there were in fact many more boys, and not just because there were more go-go bars. Most bars certainly seemed to have more on stage than the bars of today. As discussed in a few threads, no doubt this is down to less Thais being interested in working in the bars and thus replaced in Bangkok by quite a few from neighbouring countries. And of course the apps. These can be a bit of a lottery but they cut the cost of a good time very considerably.

I was a little surprised that there were fewer votes for the number of bars now being considerably reduced from 20 years ago and therefore a lesser variety of boys. It would seem that respondents are generally reasonably happy with the present selection.

Thanks to all who took part in the poll and contributed.

[Oliver]

I'm sorry I missed this.
One thing may have been forgotten; yes, the bars were better in those days but then so were we (or I was, anyway). I was younger and the scene was new to me; I was more adventurous and probably had a more active libido (not sure about that); and I was on holiday from work and so more appreciative.

Sadly, those days will never return whatever happens to the bars.

[colmx]

I seem to recall that the first post on this poll originally said that the Poll was closing March 6th
Hence myself (and probably others) didn't bother voting - as it was closed the day it opened!

By the way my response to this would be:
1. There were no mobile phones for boys to play with when sitting in the bar
2. 1000B went a lot further back then, so there were a lot more boys earning what was considered to be good money
3. Rises in minimum wage means that a boy can work in SF Cinema for 12,000B a month, get free movies and earn money on the side via apps
4. Rise of drink costs means dwindling custom from an ageing customer base

[fountainhall]

Sorry colmx. it was clearly marked as closing on April 6 as can be seen from the screen shot taken just before it closed.

4478

Thanks for the points you raised.

[werner]

It was interesting to re-read this discussion.

About 20 years ago, almost all the guys [95 percent plus?} in the go-go bars were Thai. In the last few years, its seems that at least 30 percent of the guys in some bars are non-Thai. And some of the hottest and most handsome guys seem to be non-Thai...