"We're Dropping Like Flies"

Stickman's column this week muses about farang deaths in Thailand.

www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly2006/weekly270.htm (http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly2006/weekly270.htm)


It seems that not a week goes by in Thailand when one of us doesn't perish under suspicious circumstances. If one was to scour all of the news sources, including internet discussion forums, as well as have access to what is going on at the embassies, you might be shocked at the number of suspicious deaths.


For farangs who can read Thai - and even those who cannot, here is a link to a message board in Thai with a thread which discussed the aforementioned murder of the 32 year old New Zealand English teacher by an alcohol induced Thai man. Some of the comments are quite disgraceful, and even some in English basically say that the man was trash and that he deserved it! I tell you, the attitude of some people here is very strongly anti-farang. Check it out here. Like I say, there are enough English comments for you to get the gist. And just to really scare you, remember, these are the opinions of the computer literate - that means the educated Thais!

Out of 82 comments, there is only 1 comment (No 8) that says these farangs are trash. And lots of Thai posters disagreed with it. There are a few more comments ( No 38, 41, 44 ) that say some farangs are sex tourists who like to mix up with uneducated Thais who are easy to find, and that some farangs have to take a low paid job in Thailand becasue they are a loser at home. Some say the death is a result of involving with a bad young girl who takes booz, and is sluting with men. So these few comments show how very strong some educated Thais are anti-farang?. Any Thais who express their opnions about sex tourists and unemployed farangs (a loser at home) must be automatically labeled as "anti-farang"? It shows how afraid some farangs are to look for educated Thai partners. Let's find and fuck the uneducated ones - they cannot think, speak, and argue, just take the money and undress.

I would say the tone of the comments goes direct to the 19-years old girl for her bad behaviours - drinking booz, sluting with men, and if you play with fire like her you will get burnt.

Thanks for the insight chuckwow. A picture always has many interpretations.

I have always found the Thais I have interactive with in both business and pleasure to be wonderful people. With extremely rare exception, I have always been treated with kindness.

Eish!!! Not that burnt?

I have also been getting the impression that foreigners are particularly vulnerable if they are successful at any enterprise that does not have direct kick backs to the local community and here I don't just mean employment. Competition is fierce in a country where almost every-one is poorer than the farang. Ok there was the case of the Dutch prawn farmer, well removed from the backpacker or sex tourist industry. No one deserves to be killed. So it might be prudent not to be too complacent and to move on should you finally make "the big time", like old Kyodai in the Ian Kerkhof movie.

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Cedric"]Eish!!! Not that burnt?
Ok there was the case of the Dutch prawn farmer, well removed from the backpacker or sex tourist industry. quote]

I am not familiar with this case. Is it a euphemism, as in you've got a bad case of the Dutch prawn farmer! Tell us more.

Brad are you the first "out" South African or African here? I know Impalas roam those distant shores.

The unfortunate Dutch prawn farmer who was married to a local girl was happily and very successfully farming and exporting prawns, when suddenly he was murdered in cold blood by one of his less successful neighbours, who thought his business was ripe for take over. It turned out his marriage wasn't as happy after all, at least she didn't think so because she ran off with the killer.

I know of another happily married successful Dutch farmer who farms and exports curcurma bulbs outside ChiangMai, he is still living but has lost the sight in both of his enormous blue grey eyes. So his business is effectively controlled by his charmingly ambitious wife and her lover. He however cleverly used a Thai export agent. Thought the quality of his bulbs are no longer what they used to be. No I don't think it's because the Prawn farmer was Dutch, it was just his flagrant display of successful prawn rearing.
Loosing face can seriously damage someone else's health in Thailand.

I never thought so about the Thais, but there it is?

Thailand 'most risky place for holidaymakers'

Emma Gunby
Monday July 10, 2006
The Guardian


Thailand is the most hazardous destination for British holidaymakers, where they are most likely to suffer food poisoning, theft, traffic accidents or the loss of belongings.

A survey based on more than 60,000 claims made to Norwich Union in 2005 found travellers to South Africa were the most likely to suffer violent robberies or lose belongings in transit.

Austria was named the most likely place to suffer a skiing or snowboarding accident, and the Czech Republic had the highest number of claims for pickpocketing.

The safest destination was Ireland, said Norwich Union.


www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1816704,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1816704,00.html)

[wowpow]

The conclusions are ludicrously and obviously wrong.

"Thailand is the most hazardous destination for British holidaymakers, where they are most likely to suffer food poisoning, theft, traffic accidents or the loss of belongings."

Norwich Union says that they get most claims from travellers to Thailand. That's because lots of Brits visit Thailand.

Obviously places such as Somalia, East Timor and Iraq are much more hazardous.

This sloppy, sensation seeking, mis- reporting is far too common in British Newspapers.

Holiday in Somalia?
I do hope I live long enough for Iraq to be a nice place for a holiday, but I don't expect to live to be 1000.

I feel safer in Thailand than i do in London!

Thaiquila I do so feel with you on this one. I am so very keen to go to Afghanistan. I think this will be my Nirvana, I just have a feeling about this. Do you know if it is safe and American free yet?

That survey is wrong. Ok anecdotal evidence for sure but I have never been robbed or had food poisoning or been involved in a traffic accident in Thailand , but this has all of course been down to my own sensible self. Defensive holiday taking is the best way to go.

What the survey means to say is that Thailand is the most popular long distance holiday destination for 'British' half wits who forget that they are no longer in Crouch End.

And of course Thailand is safer than London.

I have never been robbed or had food poisoning or been involved in a traffic accident in Thailand

Lucky us...

I have never been robbed or had food poisoning or been involved in a traffic accident in Thailand

Lucky us...

Hmm... that may be worth a survey :)

in my case:

Robbed: had my phone stolen 1 time (and it was an old one, bless 'im!))
Pickpocketing: 2 times attempted (caught both times and both times broke fingers)
Car accident: 3 times, 100% of which driver was talking on the mobile during bad weather conditions
Food poisoning: 1 time (compared to 2 x in UK and 9 x during my 3 year stay in the USA)

I've lived in Thailand almost 7 years now, and never had food poisoning. I *did* however contract dysenterry in antiseptically-clean Singapore...

Only place in the world I've been mugged was Manila (...in daylight, on a busy sidewalk, by three guys with knives)

I'd say Thailand is probably one of the safest places I've visited/lived.

In over twenty years in Asia, the sole incident I have ever had has been having my car broken into in Bali.

Another house burgerly and it is one of us...

20,000 Baht and a computer stolen from FrenchmanтАЩs house in South Pattaya.

House robberies continue here in Pattaya. The victim of this robbery is Mr. Logan aged 59 from France who lives with his boyfriend in his South Pattaya House. Mr. Logan is currently out of the country and his boyfriend Khun Manat aged 22 was out at the time of the robbery. Police were called in as soon as Khun Manat returned to the house on Sunday Night to find that a computer, 20,000 Baht in cash and a small safe had been taken. Police tell us that entry was gained through the front window; however no finger prints or any other physical evidence could be found which will make it hard for Police to catch the thief. Mr. Logan has been informed and we believe he is now on his way back to Thailand.


www.pattayacitynews.net/news_10_07_49_3.htm (http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_10_07_49_3.htm)

What's this "us" and "them" shit? Someone had his house burgled, so what? About 5,000 Thais had their houses burgled yesterday, too.

I never knew that the crime rate was so high in Thailand? Five thousand a day? This sounds more like South Africa than Thailand.

The "us" in us, could very well be singled out as suitable victims, given the average age, life-style, and relative wealth plus the extreme high crime rate?
I don't believe it is all together true though. If it was so common how come this petty incident is given media coverage. Is this article from the Pattaya Bridge Club quarterly?

Sounds like an inside job to me. Did Mr Logan aged 59 from France set himself up? To no effect, the French usually go native when living abroad, this just makes it all the easier to rip them ragged. Whats yours is mine.

[TrongpaiExpat]

I live in a building with 24 hour security but still would like to install some more security measures. I have a dead bolt but it would not take much to knock in the door, the door jam is just wood. I have also bolted my lap top to a desk. I hope the TV is too big to carry out without a lot of notice.

I would like a very simple battery operated motion detector attached to something that makes a lot of noise with a delay switch. I did a yellow page search for alarms companies in Bangkok and there are 67, but most are commercial oriented and they do installations and the building will not allow it.

In US I bought a simple system that I installed my self and it scared off two burglary attempts, more that paying for the unit. I have looked at all the big department stores and at Home Pro and find noting.

Panthup has all sorts of small remote cameras that fit above the door, but that does not help much when your not home and someone wants to get in and do some home shopping.

Anyone ever see anything like I am looking for?

Trongpai, I had no idea. Thailand is like my second home, but I suppose you have actually got to live in a place to know these things. Is this security thing because of your life style? I mean bringing strange "boys" home every Friday evening, this could certainly open you up to criminal activities?

Bolting your lap top to the table, the very idea of putting holes into my macBook Pro leaves me cold. Are you being serious here?

I am sure I have lived in many worse places but I have never needed a motion detector.
Could you be displaying typical symptoms of paranoia. Do you go out much? Do you lock your bedroom door? Do you have smoke detectors in every corner of your ceiling? Do you peer a lot through your security hole? Do you have your meals shoved under your bedroom door? Do you trust your staff? Do you keep your valuables in a waitrose plastic bag strapped to your waist? It could be you are having problems?

If not, can I suggest you throw out all the gadgets and motion detectors and what-not, and invest in a nice large American pit-bull puppy. Not the English kind, those are not retractable once stimulated.

There are a number of breeders in and around Bangkok, a very good one just around the corner from the Prasart Museum. Just follow the shady avenue back to the main road and turn left, a couple of hundred meters on your right. They serve excellent green tea and light refreshments. You cant miss them there are wire cages all over the place and much barking. These dogs are no problem no problem at all and very good company. The big plus about them is that they look like they will shred you to pieces but a well socialised puppy is more than likely to lick you to death as an adult, they keep them for dog fights. So what you get will probably not be very good at it, so ideal. However keep it away from little fluffy dogs as they retain a certain amount of prey drive, no matter what you do.

Good luck

[TrongpaiExpat]

Is this security thing because of your life style? I mean bringing strange "boys" home every Friday evening,

Back in my butterfly days it would be a lot more than just on Friday. Now, I have a BF, going on three years togther.


Bolting your lap top to the table, the very idea of putting holes into my macBook Pro leaves me cold. Are you being serious here?

Lap top lock, see www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8486&sid=f9aaa27bbfe90141aac3c549bc7e25a1 (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8486&sid=f9aaa27bbfe90141aac3c549bc7e25a1)


Do you keep your valuables in a waitrose plastic bag strapped to your waist? It could be you are having problems?

Acutally, I have a wallet that is attached by a chain to the inside of my carry bag.

After having my wallet lifted at Chatuchak Market and several time I have found hands inside my pockets that were not mine.

I have also bolted my lap top to a desk. I hope the TV is too big to carry out without a lot of notice.

I would like a very simple battery operated motion detector attached to something that makes a lot of noise with a delay switch.

Anyone ever see anything like I am looking for?

Well, tonight don't forget to bolt yourself down to the bed as well. Just incase they want to carry you away then you with the bed will be too big and too heavy to carry. :bom:

Re security alarm, have you tried this website ? (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6028672864&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT). It is exactly what you described and wanted. I bought one and it has worked well. Very easy to install. It uses 3 batteries, and requires no electricity. Costs about 500 baht each plus shipping. They ship wolrdwide. Email them and ask for shipping cost if interested. It is not heavy.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Well, tonight don't forget to bolt yourself down to the bed as well. Just incase they want to carry you away then you with the bed will be too big and too heavy to carry.

not necessary:
What's the resale value of a middle aged farang with a growing mid section and fallen arches?

Thanks Chuckwow for the link. That's exactly what I wanted.

[Dboy]

You might also want to leave something that appears valuable unsecured, like an old computer or something. Thieves don't like to leave empty-handed, so let them take something worthless to you instead of encouraging them to take more time/effort and risk them locating something valuable.

Also in my opinion, most home safes are worthless, except as a decoy. Hide the gold etc. somewhere else, and let them take a heavy (and empty) safe with them.



Dboy

Or better yet, don't own any gold at all.

[bigben]

First all, if you have a business in Thailand, donтАЩt waste your time reading this post. You wonтАЩt agree with it. It will upset you and you will be tempted to make a counter reply.

Again, owners donтАЩt bother reading this, It isnтАЩt for you because most of you have those cute rose colored glasses on.

This is for those of us living here without the need for a business or the guys on holiday.

I donтАЩt like to get into all the what if agreements about crime in Pattaya, but it is a hell of a lot higher than it was 5 years ago. I donтАЩt have a vested interest so I can speak freely and as honestly as I can. Crime is out of control here in the land of smilesтАУat least in the farangs areas....And there are several reasons why.

1. Yaaba is used by a lot of the population in Pattaya/Bangkok and all the other tourist areas. This drug ainтАЩt cheap and there is no way a typical Thai can afford to use it without a second income i.e. Property crimes / multiple sugar daddies / selling it to others / winning the lottery.

2, The BiB donтАЩt give a rats ass about farangs being ripped off. Hell, they are doing it themselves in other ways. If you think otherwise, you need to remove your rosy glasses.

3, Do you think when you report the stolen items that the police have a data base or check with the 400 pawn shops for your stolen property? Are you kidding? Not a chance pal.

4. Fingerprints? What a laugh. Sure they have the power and brushes and fancy cameras for the dog and pony show they perform at your house. But a data base hahahahahaaha and how many Thais do you know who have been fingerprinted by the police? Get real.

5. People, you must not forget one thing. We are in a third world country. We are targets. We have the money and guess who wants our money?

In the 3 houses and 4 apartments I have lived in, in Thailand, I have had security bars on all doors and windows. Either they had been installed before I moved in or I would have them installed and share the cost with the owner. Never had a problem. Never. And if you look around at the normal Thais houses and apartments you will see many have iron bars. Not a nice look but it keeps the sticky fingers out.

I love living here and will never leave but I do take precautions to help prevent the street crime which seems to increase everyday.

Crime is everywhere, You just deal with it the best you can. I hope I donтАЩt get all the struggling business owners all up in arms about these truths. But then on the other hand I donтАЩt give a damn what business owners say. They (farang business owners) will rip you off as fast as a Thai or maybe faster. I am just providing my opinion for those of us on long term or short term holiday in this lovely country.

[Impulse]

Its a bit naive to go by just your own experiences,and a bit egotistical.Boy,you could be murdered tomarrow and then what will you say? :cheers:

If your home town newspaper -- assuming you live in any major city anywhere -- reported every burglary, robbery, pick-pocketing, suicide, and murder, it too would look like a cesspool of crime. Pattaya is becoming a big city, with big city problems -- that's for sure. But the fact that the Pattaya papers don't have anything else to print other than "Fred and Ethel tourist robbed at gunpoint" stories certainly doesn't help perceptions.

[bigben]

RocketтАУ

Yes, Perhaps I am a bit naive since I base my opinions on lifeтАЩs learning experiences. I am curious Rocket, what do you base your opinions on if not what you have learnt in life.? If I am murdered tomorrow? What will I say? Hmmmm..... Based on my learning experiences I wonтАЩt have much to say sir.

Boyqeenyus,

I live in Pattaya. This is my home and yes, I read the local newpapers and the Thai Rath newspaper is sometimes interpreted for me by my friend.

I didnтАЩt move here to experience a crime rate the same as my home. I moved here for retirement and for more relaxed and safe lifestyle. If the crime rate isnтАЩt curtailed soon in Pattaya, then it may be time to move outside of the main tourist areas of Thailand. The petty crime is NOT happening in the non tourists areas nearly has much as it is in the tourists areas.

Personally, I am happy we have a local media that reports on the crime happenings of Pattaya and Jomtiem.

I would much rather know what is happening in my home and neighborhood than not knowing.

I don't like wearing rose colored glasses.

You must have been wearing rose-colored spectacles when you decided to move to Pattaya, if you didn't see it for the big, hairy, creep-infested turd by the sea that it is, and always has been (at least for the past 20 years, which is when I first stepped foot there). It was Shitsville then, and it's Shitsville now. If you weren't wearing rose-colored spectacles, perhaps you were simply letting your little head think for your big head. Anyway, so where are you moving next? If you can find a fleshpot that isn't a crime-ridden cesspool, I'd like to hear about it.

I can see why I have never stayed longer than three hours in Pattaya. What's with older men retiring there? Surely heading for the less touristy spots would be better for your health and sanity? Thats what I do when there and I have never had a problem with crime, or even worried about it.

Sticky fingers in your pocket? I don't know if it's because I never have a cent on me personally, or I look like a gymnast, but no one has ever tried to lift anything from my person.

This is all comes as a big surprise to me. Could it be limited to Pattaya and the older ex-pat community, or indeed and I hesitate to say this, but is it their lifestyles that are causing this?

Farang found unconscious and half naked on bedroom floor, foul play suspected?

Everyone knows that there is only one reason why old farang men choose to retire in Pattaya. They expect a paradise of hot and cold running boys, then start whingeing that their favorite vice is accompanied by what accompanies vice everywhere in the world: crime and ugliness that the strongest rose colored spectacles in the world can't make disappear. No sympathy from me, gentlemen. You got the cesspool you deserve.

... What's with older men retiring there? ... Sticky fingers in your pocket?

You asked and answered your own question Cedric :cheers:

Thai police arrest man over NZer's death
17 July 2006

Thai police have arrested a man for the killing of a New Zealand teacher in Bangkok.

Leonard Healey, 32, was allegedly stabbed to death by a friend of his Thai girlfriend following an argument between the two men earlier this month.

Police Captain Thanaphat Sookmee named the alleged attacker as Winai Saisudjai, 29.

Mr Healey's father, Patrick, told NZPA today Saisudjai was arrested last week after fleeing to his home town.

He did not know when Saisudjai would appear in court.

He welcomed the arrest but said it did not change the fact his son was dead.

"It is good news but we're not going to get Leonard back. That's the saddest part about it, and it hurts," he said.

www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3734372a11,00.html (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3734372a11,00.html)

Hmm very interesting. But it is true that where ever you are in Thailand even the remotest parts, you will always have good looking boys answering your smiles....so why choose crime ridden Pattaya? It is also not the most idyllic spot in Thailand. I think people might be missing out on a lot of really fabulous lifestyle by hanging around go-go bars and Nookies?

Perhaps it is a generation thing or a fear of commitment. The 'scene' is a difficult habit to break, like those bar boys, that I hear tell, that find it so hard to reform, maybe the punters are similarly addicted. Tell me why?
Catchy tune that. Is it that little bit of the West End "by" the tropical sea they hanker for? Home from home with a permanent tan, cheap alcohol, apartment living, dramas? :cat: :albino: :cat: