Are Gay Bars Going Extinct?

[bobsaigon2]

The point most relevant to gay bars in Thailand is that the customers are advancing in age and there are few younger men interested in taking their place.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-gay-bars-indianapolis-20161222-story.html

[arsenal]

It is possible that gay bars in the west are actually leaving the entertainment scene due to the reasons mentioned in the article. After all it would be unthinkable to have a bar for whites, blacks, Hispanics, etc etc so why should a bar that caters exclusively for gays and their fag hags be any different?

[fountainhall]

This subject has been touched on in several previous treads in recent years on all the main boards - although to be fair those threads have related much more to gay go-go bars. Here in Bangkok, I think the beer bar-type open air bars will continue - although they will continue to be of much more interest to tourists and expats than Thais. The article is undoubtedly correct that the apps have already started a major change in the way guys meet up.

Its second point is also true. Many previously straight bars and clubs now happily have gay sections or gays and straights mix together. Go to the big clubs on Thonglor and thereabouts and you'll see large numbers of Thais of the LGBT community in what are technically straight venues. The same is true with locals in many of the major Asian cities - although I have yet to find a club in Pyongyang!
It may be that the younger student-type Thai gays will continue to patronise the large, loud gay clubs out near Ladphrao and elsewhere. But soon after they graduate I expect they will go with the flow and start mixing more with straights.

Personally I do find it sad that the bar concept is dying. I certainly preferred meeting guys in bars with their ritual of flirting, buying a drink for someone you meet and getting to know them a little before ending up in bed!

[arsenal]

Fountainhall wrote:
"The article is undoubtedly correct that the apps have already started a major change in the way guys meet up."
Meat up as well methinks. LOL.

And have you been to PyongYang? It's on my list.

[a447]

The point most relevant to gay bars in Thailand is that the customers are advancing in age and there are few younger men interested in taking their place.]

There are heaps of younger men taking their place. Thousands, in fact. The only difference is, they are all Chinese. They are keeping the soi Twilight bars afloat. Should they ever stop coming to Thailand, then yes, I also think the gogo bars are doomed. As it is, they appear to be surviving on drink sales alone, as offs seem few and far between.

[fountainhall]

And have you been to PyongYang? It's on my list.
Nope. As I said -


- although I have yet to find a club in Pyongyang!
I'm looking forward to your report on all the look-alike Kim's you'll meet if you find one.

[fountainhall]

As it is, they appear to be surviving on drink sales alone, as offs seem few and far between.
A key reason for drinks prices having gone through the roof!

[arsenal]

Super quibble alert:

Fountainhall wrote "I have yet to find..."
This suggests you have actually looked and in order to do that you would have had to have been there.

[Oliver]

Is there a similar decline evident in gay saunas? and massage venues?

[Old git]

The world doesn't stand still..

Social media has made it possible to meet others with similar interests without having to attend a dedicated meeting point. This applies to a whole host of activities, and not just those centred on sexual orientation.

At the same time there has now (at last..) been a general acceptance of homosexuality in most countries. This means that Gay hotels as a genre are largely redundant, unless they include facilities that are overtly sexual, such as saunas and dark rooms.

Gay bars that are solely a meeting place are therefore in inevitable decline, but those that provide go-go shows and/or a venue for picking up rent boys, still have a future..

[scottish-guy]

It is possible that gay bars in the west are actually leaving the entertainment scene due to the reasons mentioned in the article. After all it would be unthinkable to have a bar for whites, blacks, Hispanics, etc etc so why should a bar that caters exclusively for gays and their fag hags be any different?

I agree with the thrust of what you are saying.

All I would add however is that in the West (let's take the UK as an example)and in these days of so-called equality where it's suggested we don't need Gay Bars - just try going into your local sports bar or Wetherspoons and giving your boyfriend a quick kiss or full-on snog as you'll see any straight couple commonly do without an eyebrow being raised.

After you've done that, I suggest you phone for either police assistance or an ambulance right away, as I suspect the reaction will not be pretty.

Point being - gay people are only welcome in "straight" bars provided they modify their behaviour to that which the straight patrons find acceptable.

That's not equality, it's compliance - which is a very different thing indeed.

[arsenal]

Oh Scottish. Wetherspoons? You go into Wetherspoons. You have no shame man, no shame at all. Is there absolutely nothing you won't do for a two for one offer and a cheap pint of bitter? I am just glad Robert the Bruce isn't alive to see this because if he was he'd turn in his grave.
COFL.

[scottish-guy]

"Oh dear" indeed:

Scottish licensing laws preclude "Two for One" offers and almost all other types of promotional offers such as happy hours etc. This applies to both on-sales and off-sales licensed premises - e.g even supermarkets cannot offer Two for One or discounts on multiple purchases.

As you're an expert on Scottish affairs I'd expect you to have known that

:drink:

[Manforallseasons]

[SIZE=3]
The point most relevant to gay bars in Thailand is that the customers are advancing in age and there are few younger men interested in taking their place.

With few exceptions this is also true of this board.

[pong]

Is there a similar decline evident in gay saunas? and massage venues?

As for BKK: YES also for that-though a little less. Closures are far more numerous as new openings. More common is palces slimming down for now. Very obvious that Burmese/Khmer are taken over the places there of former Thai farmerboys-which is often a bonus. As for that I read-Sunee in Pattaya is also near dead/closed, though a new area in Jomtien replaces it.
In the west/EUR here its even worse. Nearly half of the gay sauna's have closed here in the last 4-5 yrs and several smaller towns now lack any ''gay ''place. In fact I have quite another theory about this all, but then all hell will break loose over me, and I hate all those discussions.

[Steve1903]

Changing world for a lot more than just gay bars. The internet has changed it all. The retail world for starters, just look at Amazon and the amount of stuff they sell - without ever having opened a single shop. No different for the bars, people now shopping online rather than come to the bars.

[Old git]

Scottish,

You'll only have a problem snogging a guy in a Wetherspoons if it's in Scotland..

In England you'll have no problem aside from catcalls from some Geordies and a bit of banter in Yorkshire. Wales is unpredictable, and the words gay and Ireland really don't mix well..

[arsenal]

I meant food Scottish, not alcohol. Not my fault if you jocks are such a bunch of drunks the government banned 2 for 1 offers on liquor.

[colmx]

the words gay and Ireland really don't mix well..

I beg to differ... have you ever even been to Ireland?
There are more guys holding hands and cuddling in Dublin than you would ever see in any other European city!
It is also the first country to approve same-sex marriage by popular vote (referendum)

I am back home in my local village for Christmas and I was in restaurant last night where it was casually discussed that my sisters neighbour as bringing home his BF for Christmas. As is my cousin. All discussed in a sort of "so what, its normal" kind of way...

[joe552]

Please remember, a BF is not just for Christmas!

[christianpfc]

Is there a similar decline evident in gay saunas? and massage venues?

Number of gay saunas is Bangkok has gone from about 32 in 2013 to 25 in 2016 (details see my blog), and I predict a further decrease as many places lack customers, even on weekend evenings/nights.

The number of massage places is stable or growing.

[Oliver]

As I thought. I only visit Babylon and my impression is that numbers have gone down dramatically over the years. When it was in its old location, the number of visitors was much higher....of course, in those days there were fewer saunas. Colony and Obelisk are the only ones that come to mind, and they were closed by 2000, I believe.

[scottish-guy]

Firstly to Arsenal, the Welsh are the heaviest daily drinkers in Britain rather than the Scots and the area of the U.K. with the lowest number of teetotallers is the SW of England - according to the Office of National Statistics. So shove that right up your sassenach bunghole :D

Next, to Old Git - I am extremely familiar with the North East (Newcastle in particular) and can confirm that they are very friendly people indeed. However may I suggest that whilst you might get away with snogging ur BF in some poncified and studenty area like Jesmond, I invite you to try it in Benwell or Walker.

There used to be a gay guesthouse in Wallsend (which I stayed in many times) and the owner was forever repairing the windows because of missiles being thrown at them - so unless there's been an explosion in tolerance in the North East (which going by the rise in support for far right politics I frankly doubt) then kindly allow me to retain my scepticism.

:drink:

[fountainhall]

I only visit Babylon and my impression is that numbers have gone down dramatically over the years. When it was in its old location, the number of visitors was much higher....of course, in those days there were fewer saunas. Colony and Obelisk are the only ones that come to mind, and they were closed by 2000, I believe.
I much preferred the old Babylon, but it was a much smaller venue and so became quickly packed at week-ends with queues at the entrance. There used to be quite a few saunas in addition to Obelisk and Colony. Volt off Asoke was one of the first I visited. There was one called Grey's Athletic Club which seemed more like a haunt for money boys. I never went to The Beach which was raided once or twice by the BIB. Heaven is still on the go, and I used to love the Moroccan-themed Chakran off Soi Aree in the years after it first opened and before it became much more Thai for Thai (or Thai for Asian). I believe it was the first to offer nude nights when the section behind the swimming pool with the jacuzzi and the steam room would be partitioned off for those happy to walk around au naturel.

[Nirish guy]

Please remember, a BF is not just for Christmas!


Ackk I thought I was seeing things there !! Our prodigal son returns ! :-) Good to see you online with us Joe, happy Christmas !

And moving on to SG's view of Weathspoons certainly in the Belfast WS's I'm guessing he's fairly much spot on re the knuckle draggers being in attendance there and I wouldn't fancy my chances there if deciding to have a quick kiss with my BF.

Likewise I was in WS's in Ripon in Yorkshire just a few weeks ago with my BF and whilst most people were fine ( although we did get plenty of knowing oh you're one of THOSE couples looks) towards the end of the night there was one table off dickheads who started kicking off, not just with us mind but in general, and I just knew that if we came on their radar too much that we'd have been in the later firing line for sure. Thankfully some of their fishwives in toe with them kept them in check and they then came over and apologised to my BF as they realised he'd been made to feel uneasy as he didn't realise this was just a normal night in some Weatherspoons apparently , I of course didn't count for that same apology as I'm white and bigger than my Bf and so didn't need one it seems - mind you THAT happens a lot as well as the cute wee asian guy gets all the ohhh and awwws and all I get usually is the bill ! so nothing there I'm not already well used to ! :)

[arsenal]

Scottish wrote:
"Firstly to Arsenal, the Welsh are the heaviest daily drinkers in Britain rather than the Scots and the area of the U.K. with the lowest number of teetotallers is the SW of England - according to the Office of National Statistics. So shove that right up your sassenach bunghole."

I'm terribly sorry but you seem to be confusing me with someone who cares. Haha.

[scottish-guy]

Well you obviously cared enough to make the post - so if you could try caring enough to actually get the facts within the posts right then it would show promise.

As it is, your end of year Report Card (sponsored by Scottish-Guy) is only A instead of A+

:p

[arsenal]

Scottish sobered up enough to write:
"Well you obviously cared enough to make the post - so if you could try caring enough to actually get the facts within the posts right then it would show promise.."

I have absolutely no intention of allowing any facts to cloud my posts thank you very much so in that respect I am following in your illustrious shoes.. The only reason the Scottish drink less is because the nation sold most of their whiskey to the Chinese in return for a pair of cuddly but useless creatures on general display in Edinburgh that tourists like to take photos of. Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon.

[gerefan2]

Please remember, a BF is not just for Christmas!

Exactly...they are for Easter, Whitsun, Bank Holidays and weekend fucking too!

[cdnmatt]

Honestly, good. I'm glad this "proud to be gay" shit is slowly ending.

[arsenal]

Matt wrote:
"Honestly, good. I'm glad this "proud to be gay" shit is slowly ending."

Yea I kind of agree with you. I've never felt that enjoying sex with other men was anything to be either proud or ashamed of. I just do. Much like eating rare roast beef.

[cdnmatt]

Exactly. I'm not proud to be white, Canadian, or 5'8" either, as it's not like I had a choice in the matter.

One of the many reasons I enjoy living in Thailand, and why gay bars are so sparse outside of tourist areas. Here, you're human first, gay second. Whereas in the West it seems to be moreso the other way around -- you're gay first, human second, which is bullshit.

[Brad the Impala]

Yea I kind of agree with you. I've never felt that enjoying sex with other men was anything to be either proud or ashamed of. I just do. Much like eating rare roast beef.

Perhaps the time for that phrase has passed, but there certainly was a time when it was a necessary response to those who would keep us in our closet, and expect us to be ashamed of being gay. However "I'm not ashamed to be gay" was rather a mouthful, and what homosexual could deal with that, so the slogan developed as "Glad to be Gay". That also led to "Gay Pride Marches", whose name was rather more direct and succinct than "I'm a reasonably happy homosexual marches".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHG2LJGfEdw

[Pharang]

Those who think the time has passed for being publicly proud to be gay, consider that being gay is illegal in over 70 countries and a capital crime in 10. Even in a place like the US, IL Trumpo has yet to let the evangelicals loose on America or Thailand, where you can be fired for being gay with no legal recourse.You're living in a bubble if you think the battle for gay rights and self-respect is over.

[cdnmatt]

Agreed, but at the same time, for some reason I don't think getting all giddy once a year, because we're allowed to run around the streets in rainbow colored speedos and boobie tassles helps put us in a position to to be demanding respect from society.

[scottish-guy]

......which is why rainbow colored speedos and boobie tassles is my daily attire and not a once a year event for me

[fountainhall]

You're living in a bubble if you think the battle for gay rights and self-respect is over.
Agreed. And for those of us living in Asia, let's celebrate the fact that yesterday Taiwan passed the second reading of a bill to enable gay marriage in the country. It's not a done deal yet, but most of my Taiwan friends believe gay marriage will become law before the summer.

[Nirish guy]

Agreed. And for those of us living in Asia, let's celebrate the fact that yesterday Taiwan passed the second reading of a bill to enable gay marriage in the country. It's not a done deal yet, but most of my Taiwan friends believe gay marriage will become law before the summer.

Great news and yes for those that think the battle for equality is over it's interesting to note that it looks like Taiwan may pass marriage equality laws there long before they are ever passed here in my backward looking religious nutter corner of the UK, so if thats just the UK still we're talking about there's still a way to go it seems never mind the other 80 odd countries where it's illegal just to BE gay never mind expect any sort of quality legislation ! :-(

[Pharang]

Looking back over the last 30 years in the struggle for gay equality, I've concluded that the single most important factor aiding progress was the "coming out" phenom that the AIDS plague did much to trigger. Homophobia thrives where "gays" are dehumanized by anonymity.The more we all live our lives in the open, the more human we become, warts and rights.

[loke]

Gay bars in Thailand will never go dead unless the military start a crack down on bars .

But its not a meeting place for gay dating anymore since all the apps taking over.
Anyway there will always be a need for barboys , just like with bargirls.