Same-sex marriage in Taiwan and Thailand

[werner]

Various media have reported about the strong possibility that Taiwan will soon allow gay marriage. Does anyone know the latest news?

And how about Thailand? Have there recently been any moves to legalize gay marriage?

[fountainhall]

Taiwan is already very close to enacting same-sex marriage legislation. Every major city now has legal provision for registration of same-sex couples. With the backing of the recently elected President, there is now more than one Bill before the Legislative Yuan in Taiwan. At least one has passed its second reading and a full debate is now scheduled for December 26. A majority of legislators have announced they are backing the Bill. I believe - but am not certain - that if the December debate approves the Bill, then same-sex marriage will become law. The major problem now is that some legislators want to see an amendment to the existing Bill stating marriage can only be between a man and a woman, whilst others want a completely new piece of legislation. Yet even though opinion polls on the island over the last couple of years, some carried out online by the government, show quite a majority in favour of same-sex marriage, there has been a lot of feet-dragging in the parliament. So there could still be roadblocks ahead.

There's a fascinating yet very sad article on the AsiaGuys blogsite which you should definitely read. This profoundly influenced sentiment on the island recently.
http://www.asiaguys.net/taipei-gay-pride-parade-2016-part-two/

As for Thailand, I cannot see it ever becoming law here in our lifetimes (unless you are pretty young). Thai society is basically just too conservative. Thais are happy to show tolerance and acceptance of gays and katoeys, but not for marriage. As far as I know the issue of even same-sex partnerships has never come before parliament. Given that certain cities and city wards in Japan have now approved same-sex partnerships, I reckon conservative Japan is most likely to become the second Asian country to approve same-sex marriage - although that is clearly quite a few years away.

[latintopxxx]

I'll never understand this fascination with marriage...

[Josan]

I am fascinated by marriage, not to marry, but as an indicator of how mature and open a society/culture/country is.

[Uranus]

And in Nepal the government has appointed a same sex marriage committee with representatives from the LGBTI community.

[Marsilius]

Taiwan is already very close to enacting same-sex marriage legislation... A majority of legislators have announced they are backing the Bill. I believe - but am not certain - that if the December debate approves the Bill, then same-sex marriage will become law... Given that certain cities and city wards in Japan have now approved same-sex partnerships, I reckon conservative Japan is most likely to become the second Asian country to approve same-sex marriage - although that is clearly quite a few years away.

Giving the date 12 March 1995, the Wikipedia entry A timeline of same sex marriage refers to - but offers no other details of - "one recorded case of a legally valid same-sex civil marriage contraction in Cambodia: Khav Sokha and Pum Eth were married in the village of Kro Bao Ach Kok in Kandal Province".

Did Cambodia, at least in that one instance, thereby pre-date both Taiwan and Japan in recognising a "legally valid same-sex civil marriage"?

[colmx]

As for Thailand, I cannot see it ever becoming law here in our lifetimes (unless you are pretty young). Thai society is basically just too conservative.
They said the same about Ireland - which if anything is/was a lot more conservative than Thailand... yet the marriage equality referendum passed 62:38%

[frequent]

I am fascinated by marriage, not to marry, but as an indicator of how mature and open a society/culture/country is.

If you read those conservative commentators who are in favor of gay marriage they all, without exception, say it will encourage "social stability", which is code for "those faggots will settle down and stop being promiscuous sluts". Is that what you mean by "mature and open"?

[fountainhall]

The country with the most fascinating outlook is China. Not because it has ever hinted that same-sex marriage might even be considered; more because it now has a monstrous gender imbalance. Thanks to 35 years of the one child policy (now abandoned) and the traditional preference for boy children over girls, roughly 118 boys are now born for every 100 girls. Given that the international norm is 103 to 107, there are already tens of millions of young Chinese men who will never be able to find wives - and the number can only increase over the next 20 or so years. Attempts are being made to "recruit" eligible women from neighbouring countries but that will be a mere drop in the bucket.

The result is twofold. Young women now can quite literally take their pick - and they want the most eligible guys who own their own flats and hold down good jobs. Then there is the growing pool of single men who will never find wives. The state's own Population and Family Planning Commission estimates there will be 30 million of them by 2020. Most others agree this is a significant underestimate.

In a country of almost 1.4 billion, if international comparisons have any relevance then about 50 - 70 million men are likely to be gay. Certainly many of those who have married did so to mask their true sexuality. Last year, Xie Zuoshi, an economics professor at the Zhejiang University of Finance and Economics, suggested in one of his blogs (he has millions of followers) that one solution is to permit polygamy; another is to legalise gay marriage. That post was quickly withdrawn but gay marriage is now a subject that is being much more openly discussed than before.

Will it happen? Unlikely in the present era of President Xi Jinping who has frequently stressed the importance of family values. Yet if China makes no moves to alleviate the situation of up to 50 million men who have no chance of marrying, most from the working classes in the countryside, he risks creating a high degree of social unrest and instability. This from a man who also places internal stability at the top of his agenda.

It does make you wonder, though. If conditions changed and the even some of the tens of millions of repressed gay Chinese were eventually able freely to come out, might that make China one of the gayest Asian destinations in the future?

[frequent]

It does make you wonder, though. If conditions changed and the even some of the tens of millions of repressed gay Chinese were eventually able freely to come out, might that make China one of the gayest Asian destinations in the future?
So we can fuck them but not marry them?

[fedssocr]

China is facing a lot of huge challenges in the decades ahead. BBC World had a programme on today about their aging population. Something like 40% will be elderly by 2050.

I saw this 101 East on Al Jazeera yesterday about the psychological issues being inflicted on a generation of children growing up without their parents. http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101east/2016/11/china-left-generation-161130065311382.html

[Moses]

China is facing a lot of huge challenges in the decades ahead. BBC World had a programme on today about their aging population. Something like 40% will be elderly by 2050.

Since there is no state pension in China (only govt has it), it isn't big deal for China - country will not face huge payments to elder people.

[fedssocr]

But hundreds of millions of old people will still need to find a way to support themselves

[kittyboy]

Until recently I lived in China. I lived and worked there for 6 years as a teacher at an english language university.
I found the students had mixed attitudes towards homosexuality. They were often very traditional and viewed getting married and having children as the primary purpose in life (and making money). But they were often sort of ambivalent towards gays and lesbians. I suspect the result of not having a history of religious bigotry.

I moved back to the USA last year so that my chinese spouse could get a USA visa. He hated living in China.
We got married last year in Denmark. He is currently studying in the UK and we are working on getting him a visa to come to the USA.
I would not have gotten married if he could have gotten a visa for the USA on his own.
I have mixed feelings about gay marriage.
I am not a heterosexual and I do not want to live my life like a "normal" heterosexual couple would.
However, gay marriage has allowed me to apply to bring my spouse to the USA.

[fountainhall]

I saw this 101 East on Al Jazeera yesterday about the psychological issues being inflicted on a generation of children growing up without their parents. http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101east/2016/11/china-left-generation-161130065311382.html
Deng Xiao-ping's get-rich-quick policy has had staggering economic results in a country considered backward only a few decades ago. Yet some unhealthy chickens are now coming home to roost.

The one-child-per-family programme was probably essential to ensure the country could feed its rapidly growing population, especially after the total collapse of the country during the Cultural Revolution. But the fear of many was that this would breed a generation of spoiled brats. Now it seems many in the younger generation will grow up with even more psychological issues because the Cultural Revolution has broken up the family as its own social service unit - boys get married, girls move into the parents-in-law home and both look after the parents in their old age. That's almost essential when the state pension for country workers is so low compared to that for those living in the urban areas. (Yes, there is a state pension system that has undergone considerable reform in recent years. But it is basic and joining is not mandatory for those living outside the urban areas)

For a time as the people in the country grew more wealthy compared to their parents, life carried on more or less as before. But now that those in the cities are relatively so much richer, it's inevitable that many parents move to where they can earn a lot more. The emotional toll on the young kids left behind is painfully obvious in that documentary. I always thought that parents would return home at least once a year during the mass migration at the time of the lunar New Year. But some of these kids are virtually abandoned. And how are the over-60s and 70s going to be looked after without the family structure to support them?

[arsenal]

While gay marriage is not available in China I have come across zero instances where a Chinese gay has suffered discrimination of any kind. China remains the only country I have been where the straight boys are prettier than the gay ones.

[Smiles]

So we can fuck them but not marry them?
Yes by god, and frequently.

[arsenal]

You don't want to marry them because the most attractive Chinese boy will turn into a troll shortly after his 26th birthday.