EMIRATES now charging for SEATS

[scottish-guy]

I know quite a few of you use Emirates to get to Thailand, so...BEWARE.

Having just booked what I though were good priced flights (Econ) - I find that if I wish to reserve seats via "Manage My Booking" it will now cost me £80 for a service which was previously FREE.

Like a lot of people I prefer an aisle seat and I like it near the front.

However on this particular ticket class (and some others), I'm faced with either paying £80 (4 legs @ £20) or waiting until 48hrs before the flight when I can take my chances via "Online Check-In" when it will still be free to choose a seat (except the seat you want may well not be available).

Pretty annoyed I must say, as first of all they massively cut the Skywards points on Econ, then made redemption more difficult if not almost impossible , and now they're charging to reserve a seat.

Makes me wonder if Michael O'Fucking-Leary has joined their board now!



:mad:

[arsenal]

Hi Scottish.
While I do understand your annoyance may I play Devils Advocate here. I first flew to Thailand in 1989 and my single ticket cost 360 pounds. I just checked on CTrip and a single non stop ticket from London to Bangkok with Eva Air is available for 340 pounds. Jan 16.

[scottish-guy]

I assume you mean January 16th next year and not January 2016 - as rather than an aircraft, a time machine would be required?

I can't replicate your pricing as you don't give a return date and CTrip does nothing when I press search.

In any case, although I realise the point you're making, I'm sorry to say I find it quite irrelevant

[goji]

Having just booked what I though were good priced flights (Econ) - I find that if I wish to reserve seats via "Manage My Booking" it will now cost me £80 for a service which was previously FREE.

Thank you for the warning. I think we need a blacklist of airlines who take the piss like this. If they have charges for picking your seats, there should be a clear warning before you purchase.

I'm not sure if this is covered by the UK distance selling regulations, but do you have 14 days to change your mind ? I would be tempted to cancel the booking and take the business elsewhere.

[Steve1903]

Isn't it becoming fairly standard to have add ons these days? Recently flew within UK with Flybe and after choosing my flight there was a plethora of options which added to the price. ie, check in baggage, seat choice, credit card payment, yada yada...

[scottish-guy]

Well the ticket is endorsed NO REFUND NO CANCELLATION so even if you could seek redress by claiming you were misled (as I certainly was - there was absolutely no mention of a new fee for advance seat reservation on the booking pages, although I now see they have a slew of questions about in in their FAQ's

http://http://www.emirates.com/uk/english/help/faqs/1769788/online-booking#/#title-9

..then I think you'd have a tough time. I imagine that Emirates position would be that when you book you agree to their terms and conditions.

Incidentally I booked through Skyscanner which took me to Netflights

[scottish-guy]

Link buggered up and edit timed out

http://www.emirates.com/uk/english/help/faqs/1769788/online-booking#/#title-9 and scroll to Advanced Seat Reservations

[scottish-guy]

Isn't it becoming fairly standard to have add ons these days? Recently flew within UK with Flybe and after choosing my flight there was a plethora of options which added to the price. ie, check in baggage, seat choice, credit card payment, yada yada...

Yes but with all due respect Steve, EMIRATES is not supposed to be a no frills airline as FlyBe is - Emirates is supposed to be a mainstream full-service flagship carrier and passengers are not therefore on the lookout/defensive for the stealth charges the no-frills carriers add on

[Nirish guy]

To be devils advocate I guess they would argue that you bought abs paid for a seat and you're getting a seat - whereas if you want to pick a PARTICULAR seat that's up to you and yes you pay.

I've already had this debate with a few airlines and they craftily hide it as "customer sertvuce" is some families need to travel together so this gives them that opportunity, whereas those who don't "need that service" obviously wouldn't mind where they sit so it's not relevant to them - all bullshit of course but that was the answer I got - they also flagged up that you COULD still book "free" two days before so they denied they were now charging.

They actually said this practice has been in place for over two years now which I certainly didn't remember from travelling before with them !?

[colmx]

Very annoying if Emirates are now doing this... as they had recently become by new regular airline

Another "full service" airline BA have being doing this (@£30 per leg) for years now...

[Nirish guy]

Thankfully one of the (many) joys of travelling alone is that generally I'll always be able to book an aisle seat even at the last minute "somewhere" so it usually works out ok anyway and if travelling with someone it's also great to be able to use that charge / rule as a great excuse to intentionally end up separated from them and so get a bit of peace to sit and actually WATCH an entire movie, or read a book without interruption or without having to make inane small talk for the sake of it !

[scottish-guy]

NIrish - that response from Emirates is a bunch of crap:


They actually started charging for pre-assigned seating not two years ago - but LAST MONTH - see here http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/emirates-to-charge-fee-for-seat-selection-from-october-3-1.1898007

I resent their assertion that it's only "families" who have a need to select a seat - I certainly don't want to be squashed in the middle seat for 14 hours and since they don't impose the charge on kids under 2 that kinda shoots their fox on that one

It's a downright lie for them to say they're "not charging" for pre-assigned seating - the bald fact of the matter is that if I wish to book seats now (as I always do just after I book) I'm required to pay £80 that I did NOT have to pay only in August/Sept of this year.


In fact the only truthful thing that they have said is that you can choose the seat you want free within 48 hours of boarding IF you have the facility to check-in online and if the choice of seat you want is still available. There is no guarantee anymore that you'll get the type of seat you want (in my case Aisle) and it's also a fact that many travellers have difficulty with online check-in when on holiday.

Whether people want to play Devils Advocate is up to them but it's an indisputable fact that a service which was free just last month is now chargeable and no amount of weasel words from Emirates can hide that fact.

[Andaman!]

What is all the fuss about? It is only £80 total for the four sectors and is a charge levied by many full service airlines including British Airways. Aisle and window seats tend to be the preferred seats and therefore it seems entirely reasonable to pay a modest fee of £20 per sector in order to guarantee the seat location of your choice. You still have the choice of not paying the fee and accepting the risk that you might not get an aisle seat on all sectors when you select seats 48 hours before the STD. I assume (but can't check as I don't have a current EK booking) that you can also log in and see the seating chart to monitor availability in the intervening period and and then make a judgement as to whether to prebook your seats if aisle availability is starting to look tight. I prefer flying Qatar who I think offer superior service and comfort to EK - they do not currently charge for seat assignment but it would not surprise me if that changes. Whatever I hope you have a comfortable flight and enjoy your trip.

[fountainhall]

there was absolutely no mention of a new fee for advance seat reservation on the booking pages, although I now see they have a slew of questions about in in their FAQ's
I just looked at Emirates site and agree with Scottish. Emirates are screwing passengers by not making it clear at the time you make the booking. Having checked some flights on their site, there is a note against each stating -


All prices below include airfare, taxes, fees and carrier-imposed charges for 1 passenger
To me "carrier-mposed surcharges" more than implies any surcharge for seating. It would be interesting to get a legal opinion on this, but who's going to spend the money on that other than a group in a class action?

But I also agree with Andaman! and others who point out that other legacy carriers are also adding surcharges for seat selection - and in BA's case they have been doing it for years. I have no doubt this will become standard across the industry within 2 or 3 years. The problem with Emirates decision re selection 48 hours in advance is I assume that means Scottish will have to check in at four different times. With BA being non-stop, it's just twice.

As to Arsenal's earlier point, it is surely that air fares have fallen significantly over the decades in real terms. Going further back, BA used to have the monopoly on the non-stop Hong Kong/London route. When Cathay Pacific and British Caledonian were given rights in 1980, both carriers offered a short-term special promotion "low price" one way fare of £99. It didn't last more than a few months, but using base inflation rates that £198 would now be worth £768.

[arsenal]

Irrelevant Scottish? That the same ticket is 20 quid cheaper now than it was 27 years ago. You got any other examples of minus inflation? Emirates aren't a charity you know. The airline profits per $ spent are the lowest in the aviation industry.

[GWMinUS]

I agree with Scotty! It is the principle of adding a Surcharge and not listing it in their Information regarding the ticket price.
At least in the US the airline must start listing all add-ons. That is truth in pricing. Of course Mr. Trump may change all that in the interest of making Democrats pay for not voting for him!!! HAHAHA

[frequent]

I just looked at Emirates site and agree with Scottish. Emirates are screwing passengers by not making it clear at the time you make the booking.
I beg to differ. Emirates now show several columns of prices for the same trip. If you hover your mouse over the column heading you can see exactly what each price level gives you

[arsenal]

Airline ticket prices have never been cheaper and if my original post wasn't clear the date was for Jan 16 2017, a random date I picked to price check. It's the extras that allow them to stay in business.

[fountainhall]

I beg to differ. Emirates now show several columns of prices for the same trip. If you hover your mouse over the column heading you can see exactly what each price level gives you
My mistake! I did not get as far as that particular page and you are correct. However I am still correct that on both pages there is a very clear statement that the price includes all "carrier-imposed charges". What is a seat surcharge if it is not a "carrier imposed" charge?

Only when you select your fare type, a box opens up stating as the last item that seat selection is "restricted". To find out what that means, you have to click on the information icon. Only then is it clear that unless you are a family or in the upper tiers of their membership scheme, there will be a surcharge for specific seat selection. However, given that the statement "All prices below include airfare, taxes, fees and carrier-imposed charges for 1 passenger" is clearly printed no less than two times before you get that far, I do believe that for many bookers the site is at best confusing. I also think it is very sneaky of any airline to add this information at that stage in the booking process without first announcing a new policy of charging for specific seats on the main page.

[scottish-guy]

Some of you guys seem to get off on being contradictory without even reading what I posted in the first place. If you would read the detail then perhaps your observation on it might be more appropriate:



Arsenal - the reason I find your point about air travel being cheaper than in 1989 to be irrelevant is that my complaint is not about the cost of an air ticket, it's specifically about a service on a particular airline which was FREE 2 months ago which is now costing me £80. Incidentally, there were far fewer carriers in 1989 so with increased competition I fully expect prices to be cheaper than 1989. Further if you are going to quote a price at us ( for an outward trip on 16/01/17), at least give the return date so we can see for ourselves?


Frequent - I stated clearly I did not book on the Emirates website but (like millions of people who book on comparison sites, I booked via Skyscanner in this case) so why are you trying to contradict me by pointing to Emirates website and telling me to hover my mouse over a fucking price?


Andaman - yes the surcharge may be "only" £80 but that £80 represents a 20% surcharge on the "original" ticket price of £400. I'm glad you clearly don't mind being surcharged 20% on purchases you make, but I reserve my right to be annoyed by it, okay?

[arsenal]

Scottish: Back in 1989 I only bought a single as I was traveling on to Australia and so that's the only comparison I can give you. 360 pounds in 1989 is worth over 800 pounds today so air travel is clearly a good deal. Yes the seat choice from Emirates was free 2 months ago and now they charge but compared to what the inflationary rate would be you're still getting a bloody good deal. It's possibly the people who choose to pay for seat allocation that makes the difference between the flight making a profit and losing money. A return from (presumably Scotland) to Bangkok for 400 quid on a premier airline. Stop moaning, it's a fucking steal at that price. Oh yes...and have a great trip.

[jimnbkk]

Almost on topic: I just flew up to Chiangmai on Air Asia. They charged me 1,800 THB for my checked bag! I was outraged! I made my reservation through a travel agent who did not warn me about this excessive fee for one bag. Last trip on Air Asia for sure.

[arsenal]

These days we need to alter the way we think about airline tickets as a commodity. Similar to buying a new car the ticket will have a 'base price' or entry level and then you pay more as you add extras.

[fountainhall]

I stated clearly I did not book on the Emirates website but (like millions of people who book on comparison sites, I booked via Skyscanner in this case)

I just flew up to Chiangmai on Air Asia. They charged me 1,800 THB for my checked bag! I was outraged!
Two instances where booking sites did not provide the full information about the flights guys were booking. I am certain nothing can be done re Scottish' additional charges on Emirates since the problem really is with Skyscanner for not providing the accurate info to their customer. Same with jimnbkk and Air Asia. I suggest for the future that everyone booking flights through a third party site runs a double-check with the airline's own website before parting with cash since that will almost certainly provide all the information you need.

jimnbkk - not sure if you were aware that Air Asia is the region's largest budget carrier and like most in that category they charge for baggage. A few, like Nok Air, give you a baggage allowance as part of the ticket but then the basic price tends to be higher. So you are no better off! I wonder also if you ever thought about reading the terms and conditions of flying on budget carriers. If you book through the carrier's own website, you have to tick a box stating you have read and are aware of these T&C. Once you have read them, especially Air Asia, you may think twice about flying them because they have the right to cancel any flight not just for weather or technical reasons - but also "for commercial reasons". So if a flight to Chiang Mai is half empty, they have the right to cancel it and reallocate the passengers on other flights leaving earlier and later. That has happened to me several times on the Chiang Mai route.

[gerefan2]

I wish people would not use British Airways as an example.
The cun*s may be charging for their seats but caught me out big time.
I booked Business and didn't want to face backwards to Bangkok and back so paid, a fucking 140 GBP to reserve a seat each way.
To rub it in when I got to check in they asked if I wanted to change my seat....
For that aand their old aircraft with lousy service they are now permanently on my No Fly List

[fountainhall]

I used to fly BA a lot and unlike gerefan I actually prefer the backward-facing window seats in biz class. But the ghastly 777s they use on the BKK/LHR route are old, very cramped and in desperate need of refurbishment. I refuse to fly them

As for surcharges, I think the only way to avoid them as they are increasingly introduced by more carriers is to try and get to Silver status in an airline's frequent flyer programme. That means a lot of checking and then sticking to one airline (or one Alliance and putting miles on to your chosen airline's programme - and using credit cards to accrue miles). For years I was in the CX programme until I realised that I could get to Silver on BA for only half the number of points or miles flown on CX. The change was therefore a no brainer. Before I finally gave up on BA for flights to the UK 3 years ago, I would take the option (still offered on the BA booking site) of flying to HKG on CX and transferring to a new BA A380 to London. It made the flight times longer and only about Bt. 2,000 in total more expensive, but vastly more comfortable. But now my Silver card has expired, so I take the wonderful Qatar airline for which no charges are made for prior seat selection - yet!

[scottish-guy]

Just to gently remind people that we don't all have the luxury of a choice of airports and/or carrier - at least not without incurring either substantial additional cost or extending the journey duration (and often even both)

[gerefan2]

You have the choice of where to
Live though! JOKE!!!
Fountain.. I used Qatar a lot but this year their biz prices are up 1000 GBP London to BKK fuk me too

[goji]

Budget carriers charging for luggage are not comparable. I've done 1 week short haul holidays with Ryan Air and still got everything in hand luggage (8 T-shirts, undies, toiletries, tablet, camera, notebook, sandals, spare trousers, shorts, jumper, waterproofs, sun hat, sunscreen sunglasses). So hold luggage is an option for short trips.

The objectionable point is Emirates not making it VERY clear that there is an additional charge for seat booking, before booking. With Ryan Air, Air Asia etc, all this is obvious before the point of booking.

Incidentally, what is the Emirates charge for an emergency exit row seat ? That one would be worth extra.

[colmx]

Qatar's 787s have a reputation for being one of the most cramped and confined cabins for flying in long haul

They have just announced a new Dublin-Doha route... which opens interesting options for those of us in Ireland (or North East England/Scotland - who don't want to transit through heathrow) - especially as it will be competing directly against Emirates and Etihad

I just hope that they put one of their A350's on the route and not once of their uncomfortable 787's!

[gerefan2]

I wonder if a lot of people who have Qatar loyalty cards are stuck with them! Note their price for biz class LHR to BKK Has gone from 1600 GBP to 2800 GBP.
A good reason to avoid these cards!

[latintopxxx]

geez...and I thought I was a cheap charlie...all this moaning and weeping over 80 pounds....for heavens sake once u get to LOS u make it back in savings within the 1st day.

[scottish-guy]

Would you be equally generous if one of your rentboys tried to surcharge you with 20% Pervert Tax?

[pong]

Flew here on EY=etihad (they gave me a silver cd when they started serving my homebase-gives free access to some lounges, incl for transit in Abu Dhabi, even in just eco), service and prices comparable to EK (but as of yet no AB380, I think) and you still can choose any available seat when booking online.
SOME airlines only charge extra for the most wanted seats though- is it really @ EK for any seat?
Better fora for these things are flyertalk etc.

[fountainhall]

I used Qatar a lot but this year their biz prices are up 1000 GBP London to BKK fuk me too
gerefan2 - I can plan my schedule far ahead and so I only purchase tickets during one of that airline's sales periods. Last summer that saved me around 35% on a biz ticket.

The Gulf airlines have been fighting pretty successfully for market share. As planes fill up it's inevitable fares will get closer to those of other carriers. I've given up on several airlines for various reasons. If you believe one airline is screwing you, find another! I just checked. Finnair flies the BKK route and has return biz fares with for £1,312.10 return in May next year - and you get the A350 with flat bed seats for 3 of the 4 sectors.

4136

[latintopxxx]

scotty I have been known to tip the MB over the agreed amount when he has displayed exceptional talent...there have been several that have certainly given me a good workout and by the end I've wondered who actually got used!! Maybe u only come across shy vestial virgins...

[Andaman!]

.......and if you use your BA Executive Club card on Qatar, that gets you 540 tier points which is just 60 short of Silver status which then gives access to One World lounges worldwide (inc BA, Cathay Pacific, Qantas, American etc). Another tip with Qatar is to fly from Copenhagen or Amsterdam. You have to get there first but that is easy as flight leaves AMS late afternoon. My latest Qatar business class return from Amsterdam (booked when a sale was on) was £852.......and seat selection is free.

[scottish-guy]

SOME airlines only charge extra for the most wanted seats though- is it really @ EK for any seat?

Here's the bottom line:

If you book an EK ticket on the 2 lowest Economy Fares (I think they're called Economy Saver/ Economy Special) then you pay £20 per leg (which is £80 as they dont fly direct from UK) for ANY pre-booked seat.

Your alternative is to wait until 48 hours or less before departure when (if you have internet access at that point) you may reserve any empty seat free - but with absolutely no guarantee you'll get the type of seat you want

I think what this discussion is showing is that


Emirates are not being as transparent as they could be on their own website and their seat reservation fees are not being flagged up before booking on the comparison sites which millions use.
Emirates have all my personal details via Skywards and they took no action to flag up these changes in October - i.e. no email. I think that tells us something - that they hid it?
Whilst people accept add-ons is the way things are going, the flip side is that by adopting these policies Airlines are destroying any loyalty many of us had to them

[gerefan2]

That's the problem with loyalty cards as other posters have found out. I have travelled Qatar many times and if I has worried about the card I would be paying an extra 1000 GBP to fly Lhr to BKK.
NOw I just shop around

[Couple]

At the moment I still enjoy the Qatar card benefits but as some already said, the rates are gong up quite fast. If this is going to keep up, I will start shopping for other airlines also. No benefit to not use an European airline if the rate and service is the same.

[MiniMee]

I think what this discussion is showing is that Emirates are not being as transparent as they could be on their own website and their seat reservation fees are not being flagged up before booking on the comparison sites which millions use.Emirates have all my personal details via Skywards and they took no action to flag up these changes in October - i.e. no email. I think that tells us something - that they hid it?That's not really true. You used a booking site to make your reservation, which did not alert you to the seat reservation surcharge. Whereas Emirates own website makes it perfectly clear. When you choose a fare for your selected itinerary, the key conditions are displayed, including the fact that complimentary seat reservation is restricted to silver/gold card members and families etc. Why would you expect Emirates to inform you of their new policy? No airline is interested in the 'loyalty' of a passenger who only books their cheapest seats once or twice a year. They are all only interested in retaining the loyalty of customers who book premium fares perhaps every month and all loyalty card programmers are geared towards rewarding only those frequent flyers.

[fountainhall]

When American Airlines became the first major carrier to start a frequent flyer programme in 1981, it didn't matter much in which class you were travelling or what fare you paid, as long you travelled with AA and not one of the others. It was just a bums on seats gimmick. Over the decades the other airlines which followed adopted variations but the basic principle remained the same - fly me and then fly free.

Surprisingly it took the airlines a long time to realise there were ways to virtually beat the system. Several websites sprang up to give info on special fares to help accumulate a ton of miles pretty cheaply. It might mean lengthy round trips to nowhere over 24 hours but it created a large number of million milers who paid - frankly - precious little for those mileage runs which could then be spent on a first class international ticket costing $10,000.

When the days of fuel at $140 per gallon arrived compared to $35 in 1981, something had to give - and it did. The models now being adopted reward those who pay more with more freebies (although if you bother to cost them out, in most cases you are still paying more and getting less than before) and often none to those who pay the least. As MiniMee points out, airlines want loyalty from the big bucks spenders and have almost no interest in the average Joe on his once a year holiday. So gerefan2 is also right. If you're an occasional flyer, just go for the best deal on an airline which gives you a degree of comfort and reliability. Loyalty cards are great if it's your company/sugar daddy paying for them - or you are rich.

[fedssocr]

The airline business is constantly evolving and changing. Once the big airlines realized they could start charging a fee for everything they used to provide as part of the fare, of course they started thinking of new things to charge a fee for. Almost all of the majors are "unbundling" now. So, you pay a low fare then add on fees for everything if you want or need it. But the online travel agencies really need to catch up with what's going on so they can alert their customers with regard to applicable fees for things like checked bags, seat selection, etc. Governments have been reluctant to get very involved but there is still a lack of transparency about this stuff.

I've been lucky to be able to use miles to fly up front for most of my travels over the last several years and seat selection is just one of the perks. But I recognize that those who are outside the USA aren't able to accumulate miles and points as easily.

[fountainhall]

I've been lucky to be able to use miles to fly up front for most of my travels over the last several years and seat selection is just one of the perks. But I recognize that those who are outside the USA aren't able to accumulate miles and points as easily.
fedssocr - a question. I've had the good fortune to have had biz class travel from the companies I worked for virtually since biz class started. I have many times used miles for free tickets in all classes and for upgrades.

Now that I have much less business travel and have to pay for a majority of my own tickets, I started making comparisons of how valuable miles really are in terms of what I had to spend for them. We all know that the number of economy fare classes available for upgrades have been massively reduced. In 2007 I paid Bt. 37,000 for an upgradeable to biz class ticket BKK/JFK on CX. 3 years later I would have had to pay Bt. 68,000 for the same type of ticket. Now it's about the same but only to upgrade to Premium Economy!

I used to get quite a lot of miles from credit card spending, but after the financial crisis all my cards increased the charges for use overseas where a lot of my spending took place. Most charges doubled. This meant I started losing out rather than gaining in terms of miles accrued. So gaining miles through credit cards for me is a waste. Is the same true of cards issued in the USA? I know many have great signing on bonuses of between 50,000 and 100,000 miles provided you charge a small amount of spending to the card in the first 3 months. I have found no similar promotions in Asia. But in terms of general use, do your credit card miles really represent good value now?

[arsenal]

My advice for what it's worth. Chuck your loyalty cards and bonus points away. Every time you fly price check for a few weeks and sooner or later a good deal will appear.....price check a lot as often these deals only come up for a few hours. Also bear in mind that over the next few years the big Chinese airlines are going to run on more and more routes all across the world and typically they will undercut the competition, at least to begin with.

[Old git]

Well, I wanted to use up a few airmiles (125,000 to be precise) and wanted to fly on New year's day. Having left the booking a little bit late for an 'award' trip (mid Oct) the only flight I could get going out (in Biz) was with Turkish, changing at Istanbul, although it adds little to the journey time.

Cabins look a bit austere (in the 777) but no extra charge for seat selection. The planes used on this route seem to be at the younger end of their fleet and the timekeeping seems pretty good.

Wonder what the service will be like? - will an Islamic national carrier have enough alcohol on board to get me off to sleep...??

[Brad the Impala]

Turkish are fine. In fact Skytrax rated them this year as the best European airline.

Check here. http://www.airlinequality.com/ratings/turkish-airlines-star-rating/

[christianpfc]

When I read the headline, I thought you will have to stand* for the duration of the flight unless you pay for a seat. (Compare trains in Thailand or Germany, and buses in Thailand: unless a seat is specified, you pay for being transported from A to B, which can be seated or standing.)

But paying to CHOOSE your seat? YAWN! I vaguely remember I had this option when I flew low-cost airlines in South-East Asia, but thanks, I take any seat.

*Even that was in the news some time ago. And charging to use the toilet on an airplane was discussed as well.

[fedssocr]

fedssocr - a question. I've had the good fortune to have had biz class travel from the companies I worked for virtually since biz class started. I have many times used miles for free tickets in all classes and for upgrades.

Now that I have much less business travel and have to pay for a majority of my own tickets, I started making comparisons of how valuable miles really are in terms of what I had to spend for them. We all know that the number of economy fare classes available for upgrades have been massively reduced. In 2007 I paid Bt. 37,000 for an upgradeable to biz class ticket BKK/JFK on CX. 3 years later I would have had to pay Bt. 68,000 for the same type of ticket. Now it's about the same but only to upgrade to Premium Economy!

I used to get quite a lot of miles from credit card spending, but after the financial crisis all my cards increased the charges for use overseas where a lot of my spending took place. Most charges doubled. This meant I started losing out rather than gaining in terms of miles accrued. So gaining miles through credit cards for me is a waste. Is the same true of cards issued in the USA? I know many have great signing on bonuses of between 50,000 and 100,000 miles provided you charge a small amount of spending to the card in the first 3 months. I have found no similar promotions in Asia. But in terms of general use, do your credit card miles really represent good value now?

Pretty much all of my miles and points are thanks to credit card bonuses and spend. Most of the big players (Chase, AMex, CITI) now have cards with no foreign transaction fees. They're always introducing new products, so new bonuses. And several airlines are happy to sell you miles at a discount which can work out very favorably. The new Chase Sapphire Reserve card has a 100K Chase Ultimate Rewards points bonus after you spend a certain amount... It has a high annual fee ($450), but that's offset by a $300 travel credit (travel spending is rebated directly to you until you get to $300) so the fee ends up being $150. You get bonus points for things like dining and travel spending. And if you shop online much there are lucrative bonus points at various retailers.

It helps that I only take a couple of trips per year, so I have time to accumulate before I need to spend miles. I'll be taking my last Cathay Pacific business class trip in March thanks to American Airlines miles. They devalued their miles greatly earlier this year. Avianca is always running miles sales, including their current offer. If you redeem them well you can fly first class on very long flights for a fraction of what paying cash for the ticket would cost. Still not exactly cheap but $2400 for a first class round trip from DC to SE Asia is a good value to me.

[destiny]

Well, I wanted to use up a few airmiles (125,000 to be precise) and wanted to fly on New year's day. Having left the booking a little bit late for an 'award' trip (mid Oct) the only flight I could get going out (in Biz) was with Turkish, changing at Istanbul, although it adds little to the journey time.

Cabins look a bit austere (in the 777) but no extra charge for seat selection. The planes used on this route seem to be at the younger end of their fleet and the timekeeping seems pretty good.

Wonder what the service will be like? - will an Islamic national carrier have enough alcohol on board to get me off to sleep...??


Indeed Turkish are actually quite good. Plus they are almost the only European Airline apart from Aeroflot (which is great in C-class too as well as in Premium economy) that offers proper business class seats on short haul flights within Europe.
From what I know, their surcharges are moderate compared to the likes of BA or LH, so I intend to spend my remaining Star-Alliance miles on a C-Class flight with TK as they service the non-hub airport of my home town. Yes there will be alcoholic drinks too, no worries.

[fountainhall]

Pretty much all of my miles and points are thanks to credit card bonuses and spend. Most of the big players (Chase, AMex, CITI) now have cards with no foreign transaction fees. They're always introducing new products, so new bonuses. And several airlines are happy to sell you miles at a discount which can work out very favorably.
I have read a lot about these offers available in the USA and about flyers who sign up for several promotions with a ton of free miles, use the cards for a year and then jack them in and start with another lot. I always wonder what the benefit is to the card issuers when they give away so much.

[gerefan2]

Wonder what the service will be like? - will an Islamic national carrier have enough alcohol on board to get me off to sleep...??

Funnily enough I find that those Middle East airlines pour the alcohol down your throat far quicker than the likes of KLM or BA! It comes faster than a mamasans unwanted bullshit!

[Old git]

Funnily enough I find that those Middle East airlines pour the alcohol down your throat far quicker than the likes of KLM or BA! It comes faster than a mamasans unwanted bullshit!

Sounds promising!

Only problem seems to be a lack of Port on board (although last year I found EVA air had a bottle on board even though it wasn't listed on their website) - it's by far the most civilised way to knock yourself out on board IMO..

I always make a point of drinking the supply of Port dry on a long night flight. EVA even used the correct glasses for it - I've often had to explain to Thai and Lufthansa crews that Port should never be served in shot glasses..

[scottish-guy]

Old Git, it seems you really shouldn't be flying to Thailand at all - you should be sipping your port from the correct glass on the first class deck of the Queen Mary via Singapore and Kuala Lumpur where you'd be disembarked from the ship in full drag in a sedan chair carried by half a dozen Nubians

4141

[latintopxxx]

...nubians...really....there u go again scotty....so racist...typical of someone from your era....black guys doing all the heavy lifting...

[scottish-guy]

You really are THICK - anybody with half a brain can tell that the era and the reference to nubians is part of the joke.

And Old Git doesn't look that "heavy" in the pic.

[fedssocr]

I have read a lot about these offers available in the USA and about flyers who sign up for several promotions with a ton of free miles, use the cards for a year and then jack them in and start with another lot. I always wonder what the benefit is to the card issuers when they give away so much.

The banks take their cut from the merchant for every transaction. So, between annual fees and the money they make on spend, I suspect it's worth their while or they wouldn't do it. Those of us who pay off our bill every month might not be cash cows, but a lot of people don't do that so they get to make interest income as well. I think the people who are playing "the game" are still a relatively small percentage of all their customers. So they can afford a certain percentage of so-called freeloaders who pay off their bill every month. Some cards are worth keeping and putting all your spend on, some are just good for collecting the initial bonus and then canceling a year later. The card issuers are also in marketing tie ups with the airlines or hotels so they get the miles or points at a steep discount.

[Old git]

"Old Git, it seems you really shouldn't be flying to Thailand at all - you should be sipping your port from the correct glass on the first class deck of the Queen Mary via Singapore and Kuala Lumpur"

The cruise ships have never been very strong on port - nothing of value in that regard went down with the Titanic.. - poncy cocktails are more the cruise scene, which I can well do without.

The Ying and Yang of visiting Thailand is that I take rest from guzzling fine wines (I won't pay Thai store prices for claret..) I also take a break from drinking coffee, and also (which may seem odd, but I can recommend it..) making or receiving phone calls.

Anyone wanting to communicate with me has to use text messaging or email - which is so much more civilised than the 'phone..

[fountainhall]

The banks take their cut from the merchant for every transaction. So, between annual fees and the money they make on spend, I suspect it's worth their while or they wouldn't do it.
You must be right - and yet! If you get 50k miles for joining, the first year free and then spend just the minimum $3,000 (?) in 3 months before cancelling at the end of the year, the card issuer cannot generate more than about $150 max. Yet those miles are "worth" at least $1,000 if put towards a biz class trans-Pacific return ticket - and probably a lot more.

Citi has a card in HKG issued in conjunction with Asia Miles. The only benefit is about 50% more miles than other cards. A Citi exec once told me the bank actually loses on the scheme but they regard it as a loss leader to draw customers to the bank's other products. Whether that actually works for them, I've no idea.

[Smiles]

" ... You really are THICK ... "
As said by a few thousand over the years: PLEASE don't feed the trolls.
Latinmotherfuckempoxx is a troll par excellence ~ no admiration there ~ and every keystroke he makes on this board has one and only one intent .. to wind you up.
Put him on Ignore, don't read him, don't reply to anything he writes, sit on his face, fuck him in the ass with a 12-incher. The Amish got it right: shun him as no other ... and their 'shunned' are rarely like the idiot this board has to put up with.

And by the way Latinmotherfuckempoxx, don't bother me with PM's as they are even more mundane and jejune than your winding-em-up posts.

(Whoops ... am I feeding a troll??)

----------------------------------------------------------------

Back to airlines ...

[arsenal]

Old Git.
Not sure if you meant the pun but I loved the comment about cruise ships and port considering that's where they spend half their lives. And really! text messaging and e-mail are the height of modern vulgarity. You should do as I do and insist that everyone communicates with you by telegram, preferably delivered by a waif with no shoes on...just as it was when you were middle aged. Haha.

[fountainhall]

Only problem seems to be a lack of Port on board
Emirates certainly serves port in biz and 1st classes

[Old git]

Emirates certainly serves port in biz and 1st classes

But do they use the correct glassware?

(Actually, one does not have to be overly fussy - the standard airline wine glass is quite adequate for Port, but shot glasses are completely wrong..)

"You should do as I do and insist that everyone communicates with you by telegram"

Arsenal, does no-one talk to you any more? The last country to use Telegrams was India, and their service ended in July 2013.. ;-)

Seriously though, although we have all grown up with the 'phone, it is, on reflection, a very rude device that demands that the recipient stops whatever they are doing to attend to the call. With other means of communication now mainstream, I am proud to limit its use to those occasions when there is an urgency that justifies it.

Telemarketers, including those from companies I do business with, get a lecture in manners from me when they make calls without just cause..

[scottish-guy]

Have you checked your chimney recently lest there's a small urchin stuck up it?

[Old git]

..meaning what?

By embracing the notion of a 'post 'phone' lifestyle, I see myself at the cutting edge of civilised existence - not romanticising the distant past..

[cdnmatt]

Don't worry Oldgit, this forum has devoled into a pitiful existence over the last few months.

[Smiles]

" ... this forum has devoled into a pitiful existence over the last few months ... "
. . . and your spelling has devolved into a message board black hole, also known as the Latinexpoxx Non-Event Horizon ... possibly because you have gone blind? Or has your latest drama morphed from blind into acute sperm buildup.

Please peruse this link to somewhere-in-Canada regarding them pesky voles: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/theyre-everywhere-pesky-voles-destroying-calgary-lawns-as-they-invade-idyllic-neighbourhoods

[cdnmatt]

That would be going blind. I pur more care into other communication, but for SGT posts, usually just let it slide as I figure everyone will be able to figure out what I'm saying. There's three options for typing blind:

1.) Drop your typing speed to about 12wpm, so you can listen to the screen reader say every character as you type it. Can still easily mixup things though, like M and N for example, because they're right beside each other and sound similar.

2.) Spend about 3 times as long proof reading message as it took you to type it.

3.) Say fuck it, and let the typos slide. This is what I generally do for SGT.

[frequent]

I pur more care into other communication, but for SGT posts, usually just let it slide as I figure everyone will be able to figure out what I'm saying.

Yes, let's face it, why care about your readers and making sure you're communicating effectively?

[arsenal]

frequent (aka Latins' arsewipe) wrote:
"Yes, let's face it, why care about your readers and making sure you're communicating effectively?"

Ever more charming with each poisonous post.

[bkkguy]

Yes, let's face it, why care about your readers and making sure you're communicating effectively?

while I basically agree with this sentiment, as this classic text shows "communicating effectively" may not require all the care and attention when typing that you may first think



i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno’t mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae.. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!


unfortunately however this example of Typoglycemia is a popular urban myth - there was no research at Cambridge and other examples of such text are almost unreadable - like cdnmatt's posts!

bkkguy

[a447]

other examples of such text are almost unreadable - like cdnmatt's posts!

On the contrary, I think his posts are surprisingly readable, especially as he's blind.

And his mood is also surprisingly upbeat considering the situation he suddenly found himself in. I had no idea a sudden loss of sight could be so easily taken in one's stride.

Quite remarkable, actually.

[cdnmatt]

See what I mean by this forum has devolved?

1. I make a small typo.
2. Smales decides to make an insulting post being his typical condascending self
3. I keep myself polite and composed, and provide a decent reply
4. frequent makes a cheap insult
5. bkkguy makes a half decent post, but decides to throw a childish insult in at the end for good measure
6. a447 goes on to imply that I'm lieing about being blind




And his mood is also surprisingly upbeat considering the situation he suddenly found himself in. I had no idea a sudden loss of sight could be so easily taken in one's stride.

Quite remarkable, actually.



Thanks. Helps confirm I made the right decision in staying here, instead of immediately jumping on a plane back to Canada. God knows there was enough pressure to do so.

[Manforallseasons]

This is way past simply being bizarre.

[scottish-guy]

Lighten up!

With my record of going off-topic at every conceivable opportunity, isn't it simply delicious that *my* thread's been hijacked

:D

[a447]

Thanks. Helps confirm I made the right decision in staying here, instead of immediately jumping on a plane back to Canada. God knows there was enough pressure to do so.

Matt, not so long ago you wrote the following, which suggests that there was no "right decision" to be made, nor any pressure to resist. "jumping on a plane to Canada " was clearly not an option for you.


I can't just live in Thaailand for over 6 years, then show up up at a Caanadian hospital and drop $30k of taxpayers money on medical expenses, even if I kept up my monthly fee. CThe Canadian healthcare system is reserved for residents, not citizens.


Matt, this is getting ridiculous now. You need to get your story straight and remain consistent. At the moment you are all over the place.

Oh, and to get back on Scotties topic, does Emirates fly to Canada??

[cdnmatt]

a447, if you somehow believe that quote proves I'm some liar who contradicts himself, then you're really grasping at straws.

Might be time to find a new hobby...

[bkkguy]

Might be time to find a new hobby...

a suggestion, though some may see this (pardon the pun) as a cause:

Gay and lesbian ‘Braille porn’ for blind peoplehttp://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/10/28/gay-and-lesbian-braille-porn-for-blind-people-now-exists-in-sweden/

bkkguy

[cdnmatt]

I think brail is pretty much obsolete nowadays, or at least I have yet to find a use for it. I have the ATM menus memorized, and elevators are generally always two colums of buttons.

Could be wrong, but I'd say brail is going the way of printed newspapers...

n

[Davey612]

So, from Emirates charging fees for seat assignment to blind Canadians reading braille porn. You guys are so diverse and interesting

[Mancs]

I used to like Emirates but switched to Etihad, which I now prefer despite the crush at Abu Dhabi. Using the lounges is a big plus. A hidden £80 extra fee from Emirates certainly won't entice me back. But I am careful in UAE. No codeine and no sex outside marriage.

[scottish-guy]

..I am careful in UAE. No codeine and no sex outside marriage.

You must have a very long layover - I make do with a couple of pints and a wank

:D

[christianpfc]

[on recently becoming blind] I have the ATM menus memorized, and elevators are generally always two columns of buttons. This is getting more and more unbelievable. How do you go to the ATM when blind, how do you get in and out of the elevator when blind?

[a447]

I thought you told us you live in a village outside of town. So how do you get to the atm? And once there, how exactly do you negotiate the touch screen? There's no screen reader in an ATM. Why would you go out of your way to memorise the screen before you become blind?? Did you actually predict the fall which you say lead to you becoming blind??

Very Latin-esque.

[Jellybean]

Hmmm . . . curiouser and curiouser! cried Jellybean. Perhaps it is time that cdnmatt is summoned before me Lords, the Queen’s Justices to answer for his high crimes and misdemeanours.

On second thoughts, disregard my last comment. Think I got a bit carried away. What I meant to say is, well, it will be interesting to read what Matt says in reply to the posts made by ChristianPFC and a447. The plot thickens, as they say in all the best detective stories.

:D

Oh, and by the by, and to sort of get back on topic, I used Emirates Business Class for the first time back in October. I have flown with Qatar Airlines for 10 years or so, but they increased their prices so much I could not justify the cost. I was very happy with the service provided by Emirates and, as long as their prices are not increased too much, I shall use them in preference to Qatar; unless they can match Emirates lower cost.

[scottish-guy]

My dear business class Jellybean - you won't be affected by the new seating charges as they only impinge on the impecunious

:clapping:

[cdnmatt]

ed before me Lords, the Queen’s Justices to answer for his high crimes and misdemeanours.
On second thoughts, disregard my last comment. Think I got a bit carried away. What I meant to say is, well, it will be interesting to read what Matt says in reply to the posts made by ChristianPFC and a447. The plot thickens, as they say in all the best detective stories.

:D

I'm beyond livid and disgusted, and still debating whether or not I even want to spend the time to dignify shit like that. What's the point? They've already made up their mind.

Ok, I'll disregard screen reader and bang out something at my standard speed, so expect typos.

No idea where you got the idea I'm living in some small rice farmining village, but no, I'm in KK. Maybe not the city center, but KK nonetheless.

Ok, you caught me. I haven't been in an elevator since I went blind, but aside from ATMs, it was the only thing I could think of that seems to have mandatory brail on it. But yes, we do have elevators in KK too.

The closest ATM is exactly 3 turns and about a 6 minute walk away. I can do it all by myself! Plus I have this Laos guy named Leo who doesn't seem to stop coming back. He's a complete lazy cunt, and doesn't do much, but nonetheless, he's a cool guy, I know I can trust him, he has a good heart, and he helps take care of me, go grocery shopping, get a haircut, and other neat shit.

I'm not 1000% blind. I can see parked cars, but not sidewalk curbs. I can see sihoulettes of people, but not their facial features, skin color, or clothes. I can make out my brown dog laying on the floor, but have trouble with my white dog (floor it white tile). I can see escalotor railings, but not the moving stairs, etc.
.



Aside from that, I'm done talking about this with people who think I'm capable of lieing about something like this. Seriously, who the fuck would lie about something like this?

[arsenal]

Actually Matt I believe your post to be grammatically perfect with nary a spelling mistake, typo or punctuation mark out of place. Perhaps being "beyond livid" brings with it some typing superpowers. Anyway...well done, good work,

[cdnmatt]

Thanks. I guess I'm getting better.

It's funny, and give it a try yourself if you want. When this first happened, I thought, "no problem, I never look at the keyboard anyway", but apparently I was stealing more glances than I realized, because I know my typing was complete shite at first.

If you think you never look at your keyboard while typing, give it a try. Blindfoldfold yourself, and bang out a few paragraphs. Decent chance I bet you'll be surprised with the results. :-)

[scottish-guy]

OK I'll gibr it s hobut I fomny klnoe ehst the resyult night be

[Manforallseasons]

This pretense is so sick that it is not funny.

[Smiles]

Actually Matt I believe your post to be grammatically perfect with nary a spelling mistake, typo or punctuation mark out of place. Perhaps being "beyond livid" brings with it some typing superpowers. Anyway...well done, good work,
Forget grammar, forget spelling.
The question of the century (hyperbole et al) is this and only this: has Cndmatt actually gone blind, or is he pulling the rug over our, er, eyes?
Personally I'm in the MFAS camp on this one ... though I would leave open a wishy-washy possibility that his vision has actually flown the coop.
Who knows 100% regarding anything spewed on internet message boards? Especially when the subject is chickens.

What was the topic of this thread? I've forgotten.

[Nirish guy]

"What was the topic of this thread? I've forgotten."

SG Drinking and wanking in airport lounges in the UAEs apparently ? Wasn't it??

Which funnily reminds me of an incident involving myself, a cute taxi driver, and illicit blowjob and the UAE's ultra religious police section, followed by a VERY fast drive by a stressed out worried taxi driver to the airport, but THAT as they say is a WHOLE other story ! :)

[arsenal]

I think it says a lot about the antiquated thinking of The UK honours system that NIrish has not been given a bauble or two for services to international sexual relations.

[Smiles]

While in whining mode regarding airline seats, take a gander at what 10 abreast economy seating looks like on a Air Canada B-777 (flights from Asia to Canada).
Usually 777's are 9 abreast and have been on most airlines (including AC) for the last decade. Air Canada squeezes 'em in on Economy, leaving one reviewer on Seat Guru to note that the meal tray was about the size of his tablet.


https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Canada/Air_Canada_Boeing_777-300ER_Three_Class_v4.php

Think I'll stay with Korean or China Southern. They make me feel wanted.

[scottish-guy]

Emirates is 10 abreast in economy on a 777 and (in my experience) always have been.

I believe the seat width is about 17 inches - so basically if you're sitting next to anyone over say 38 waist they're spilling into your area.

This is exactly why I like to reserve an aisle seat at the earliest opportunity - which brings us neatly back to the new surcharge of £80 per trip to do so.

[Up2U]

While in whining mode regarding airline seats, take a gander at what 10 abreast economy seating looks like on a Air Canada B-777 (flights from Asia to Canada).
Usually 777's are 9 abreast and have been on most airlines (including AC) for the last decade. Air Canada squeezes 'em in on Economy, leaving one reviewer on Seat Guru to note that the meal tray was about the size of his tablet.


https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Canada/Air_Canada_Boeing_777-300ER_Three_Class_v4.php

Think I'll stay with Korean or China Southern. They make me feel wanted.

Out of curiosity I compared my seating details on my recent EVA flight with those of Air Canada and was I positively surprised. EVA was a clear winner and flies to Vancouver and other Canadian cities I believe.

[GWMinUS]

I fly from LAX to points in Asia and usually find fares on EVA to be competitive.
But this is in Coach. The fares for their Laurel Premium Coach are now much more expensive!!
Never a Promo!!
The seating pitch in Coach is OK and the service is always good.
Highly Recommended...
GWMinUS

[Up2U]

I fly from LAX to points in Asia and usually find fares on EVA to be competitive.
But this is in Coach. The fares for their Laurel Premium Coach are now much more expensive!!
Never a Promo!!
The seating pitch in Coach is OK and the service is always good.
Highly Recommended...
GWMinUS

My business class ticket, this December, was $3600 from the EVA website and I earn miles. This was well over $1000 cheaper than United and very competitive.

[fountainhall]

A couple of recent articles in Forbes magazine makes it clear why prices for the three Gulf airlines have been rising and extra charges introduced.

After a bumper 2015, Emirates has seen a "sharp" drop in profits in 2016 and the outlook is "bleak". Profits were down 75% for the six months to September compared to the same period last year. Reasons given include regional instability and low oil prices resulting in a major drop in premium fliers from that region, a drop in passenger numbers from elsewhere and competition from the other Gulf carriers. For the future, there is concern that the Qantas deal - where Qantas dropped all its European routes except London via Singapore and flew its other passengers to Dubai to connect with Emirates extensive network from there - will be affected once Qantas starts non-stops form Perth to London in March 2017 using Dreamliners. The Gulf's expansion has been a result of its being a highly convenient hub and spoke operation. If the range of the 787s and A350s can be expanded further, that would certainly affect more destinations.

Meanwhile Etihad has been cutting jobs and restructuring "against a backdrop of weakened global economic conditions." Fleet growth has stalled and there is a slight reduction in the number of destinations served. Qatar's profits remain healthy for the time being, but then it has been steadily raising prices as has been pointed out in this thread.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2016/11/11/is-the-emirates-airline-growth-story-at-an-end/#71ed34b74560
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2016/12/19/etihad-job-cuts/#5dc64fe42476

[paperboy]

i must have been lucky, i booked my flight back in August for next june and picked my seats with no charge,
Lucky me hahahahahha

[scottish-guy]

OK here's the update:

As I said, the suggestion from Emirates was that if you didn't want to pay for preferred seating then you could wait until online check in opened 48hrs before departure and reserve specific seats free of additional charge.

So, as of last night, that's what I've done.

All I wanted was to be sure I got an aisle seat, and Im glad to report there were plenty of those.

So as it turned out there was no need to pay them an additional £80 after all - something others may want to bear in mind

:clapping:

[gerefan2]

Are you coming back to Thailand then?

[scottish-guy]

No - I fear MiniMee would disappear up his own arse in a puff of smoke were I to visit Thailand twice in 6 months.

I'm going to Vietnam where I have an apartment and a long term BF.

I hope that's acceptable to MM - or am I required to post photographic evidence of that as well?

:D

[scottish-guy]

Oh well - I'm grounded due to family illness :dash: