new 10 year visa for over 50's

[bkkguy]

Applicants must either earn a monthly salary of at least 100,000 baht or have more than 3 million baht in their bank account, which cannot be withdrawn within the first year after receiving the visa. They must also have health insurance that covers hospital stays and provides at least USD$10,000 in annual coverage.



"It was not immediately clear when the plan would be implemented" but that is probably not the only reason many here may not be interested!

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/22/govt-approves-10-year-visas-foreigners-50/
(http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/22/govt-approves-10-year-visas-foreigners-50/)
bkkguy

[scottish-guy]

From the outside looking in, I don't see anything financially wrong with that deal and it seems quite an attractive way to avoid constantly renewing visas etc.

Surely there's nobody who's chosen to retire to Thailand who can't bank £60K for a year or whose pensions don't exceed £20K?

However I do appreciate that if you don't have a clean bill of health, the Insurance requirement may prove impossible or too expensive to arrange

:aggressive:

[Nirish guy]

Surely there's nobody who's chosen to retire to Thailand who can't bank £60K for a year or whose pensions don't exceed £20K?


Shit I need to talk to your financial advisor it seems as I was just thinking the opposite re the banking the 100,000 baht a month part as without thinking too much about it I made that out to be around £2800 a month (33.5k pa) gross so I was thinking surely if retired that would a reasonably high enough figure for someone ( with I assume no employment as they're retired) to try and generate each month in income ( great pension aside for some perhaps) ? Or maybe my own pension projection is just so shit now that I'm totally out of touch now with what others are getting these days ?

The actual "cash in the bank" part I agree is of course the easy part and I would image would be the way to go for anyone considering that visa ( even if it involved putting that amount on a credit card at zero interest for the first year and then paying it back thereafter if required just to get the visa - but like yourself one would "assume" that someone retiring to thailand or anywhere else for that matter would have that amount to hand anyway from a variety of sources perhaps - mind you as I was always taught to be cautious I normally try not to assume anything in life these days !

[fountainhall]

I have never been able to work out why the Immigration Department makes no difference in the visa requirements for those who rent accommodation and those who own. It seems odd that someone with an apartment valued around, say, 5 million or so would still have to meet the 3 million cash requirement when over 10 years someone renting would probably need to spend at least 2 million of that!

And I guess there will still be an annual trek to Chaengwattana or wherever to collect multiple re-entry permits.

[llz]

From the outside looking in, I don't see anything financially wrong with that deal and it seems quite an attractive way to avoid constantly renewing visas etc.

Surely there's nobody who's chosen to retire to Thailand who can't bank £60K for a year or whose pensions don't exceed £20K?



I think you are out of touch with the reality of many (most ?) foreigners living now in Thailand.

If the present so-called "retirement visa" (extension of stay for the purist) is phased out (which the Khao Sod link seems to suggest), the financial requirements will move up from 65.000/month and/or 800.000 in the bank to 100.000/month and/or 3.000.000 in the bank ; this will de facto rule out a great number of people living or intending to live in Thailand, especially with the THB getting more expensive for many.

Affluent people will be happy with this new rule - although they will still have to check in every 90 days with the Bureau of Immigration - but it would be a drama for those less well-off who could not meet the new financial requirements.

[scottish-guy]

NIrish - have I misread BKK guy's post?

Isn't it 3 million baht (~£60K) in the bank OR 100,000B a month income, rather than both??

I repeat - there must be very few aspiring retirees who are contemplating selling their home to move to Thailand, who couldn't put £60K aside in the bank for a year??? If you can do so (unless I've completely misinterpreted BKKGuy) theres no monthly salary requirement (though I appreciate you would still need money to live on whilst that approx £60K is tied up for a year) No?

LLZ - I was thinking primarily of people planning to move to Thailand - not those already resident there. I still think that's a reasonably good deal for new arrivals who are planning to sell their home and move. No?

[Smiles]

If the present so-called "retirement visa" (extension of stay for the purist) is phased out (which the Khao Sod link seems to suggest), the financial requirements will move up from 65.000/month and/or 800.000 in the bank to 100.000/month and/or 3.000.000 in the bank ; this will de facto rule out a great number of people living or intending to live in Thailand, especially with the THB getting more expensive for many.
I re-read bkkguy's link in the OP and as far as I could tell there is no intent to phase out the regular 'Retirement Visa' (or extension of stay if you wish). The intent seems to me to simply invent a new kind of Retirement Visa ... i.e. one for the 'affluent'. "Retirement Plus" perhaps?

Here is the full article:


BANGKOK — Affluent foreign residents over 50 will soon be able to apply for 10-year visas, a government spokesman said Tuesday.
Intended to promote Thailand as a hub for medical services, the policy was approved by the interim cabinet on Tuesday, according to spokesman Athisit Chainuwat.
It would replace one-year renewable visas and come in two installments of five years each, Athisit said. It was not immediately clear when the plan would be implemented.
Applicants must either earn a monthly salary of at least 100,000 baht or have more than 3 million baht in their bank account, which cannot be withdrawn within the first year after receiving the visa. They must also have health insurance that covers hospital stays and provides at least USD$10,000 in annual coverage.

Visa holders will still have to check in every 90 days with the Bureau of Immigration, Athisit said.
Applicants for the visa are expected to be foreigners who live in provinces such as Chiang Rai, Chiang Mai and Chonburi, the spokesman added.


And by the way, within that small article is the go-to 'cover-my-ass' trick beloved by Thai politicians and bureaucrats " It was not immediately clear when the plan would be implemented."

[pronto]

I re-read bkkguy's link in the OP and as far as I could tell there is no intent to phase out the regular 'Retirement Visa' (or extension of stay if you wish).[/I]

But in that full article it says, "It would replace one-year nenewable visas..."
I would think "would replace" to mean "phase out". No?

[Smiles]

But in that full article it says, "It would replace one-year (r)enewable visas..."
I would think "would replace" to mean "phase out". No?
I did see that sentence Pronto.
But to me it meant those who wished to change over, and who meet the criteria, could replace their 'old' visa with a quite different 'new' 10-yr visa. If one had no interest in the new 10-yr he would just carry on with their 'regular' retirement visa and go through the annual extension dance.

[Nirish guy]

Sorry SG you are right, it is either or not both.

I had actually realised that earlier but had failed to remember the increase of that 3 million figure, hence my suggesting a credit card even to cover the "£35k part".

My point was that surely if retired it would be difficult for the standard run of the mill retired person to generate a repeating income of 100,000 a month "income" ? ( I take your point though that if they have a lump sum in savings they wouldn't need that anyway).

But maybe I'm wrong and all retirees have large pensions coming in these days and it's only me who's pension projection shows my having to continue working until I'm about 127 or so to then enable me to retire with a pension of a value of about £120 a year !

[pronto]

I did see that sentence Pronto.
But to me it meant those who wished to change over, and who meet the criteria, could replace their 'old' visa with a quite different 'new' 10-yr visa. If one had no interest in the new 10-yr he would just carry on with their 'regular' retirement visa and go through the annual extension dance.

Ah, yes. That does make more sense.

[frequent]

This seems to be a clone of the Malaysian retirement visa, right down to the "health insurance" requirement which - as has been said many times - is not a viable option or even available for the over-65s. The Malaysians have added something to the effect "unless the applicant can show he is unable to get health insurance". My guess (and we're all guessing here) is that Smiles' assessment is correct and this is for new applicants only. The existing arrangements would be grand-fathered. However, it may be mandatory for all new applicants

[cdnmatt]

I'm curious if this will have any affect on the Thailand Elite Card program? I'm guessing not...

[bkkguy]

And I guess there will still be an annual trek to Chaengwattana or wherever to collect multiple re-entry permits.

as is usually the case the original article, the followup articles in the press today and most of the discussion it is unclear about what is actually being offered here

if this is a single entry visa that grants a five year permission to stay on entry and that permission to stay can be extended by another five years in-country then you would only need to obtain one re-entry permit every five years because a re-entry permit is valid for the period of your permission to stay

if however this is a similar to the NON-OA visa and is a multiple entry visa that is valid for five years that grants a five year permission to stay on each entry the you would not need any re-entry permits for almost 10 years provided your last departure and re-entry is just before the visa expiry date

in the worst case this could be a visa valid for five years that grants a one year permission to stay but then you would be better off with the current retirement extensions. there are other options as well but the news articles seem to lean more to one of the more sensible options

it is also unclear how you establish the funds are still in the bank till the end of the first year or that the income continues for the five or ten years, and whether the 90 day reporting is the same concept that currently applies to any alien staying in the kingdom - including simple email or online reporting - or will be a more onerous procedure thus negating the "convenience" of the "10 year visa"

bkkguy

[destiny]

I seriously doubt that existing arrangements will be grandfathered. The truth is, Prayut does not like Westerners and particularly not those staying here for the long-term (even worse so if those reside in Pattaya), and that way he can elegantly kick out an estimated 50% or rather more of those aliens without having to show his true intentions.

And just for everyone's information - the average pension in Europe is just a few Euro above 1K.
I don't know any fellow European who gets 100K Baht worth of pension and I do not only hang out with cheap-charlies and low-life creatures. If you have an additional private or company pension or own property, that is another story then.
Lucky am I that all these rules won't affect me before Nov 2017 as a "little birdie" alerted me of immediate changes and I managed to extend my documents early. But plan B is already in the drawer. There are many fish in the South Chinese sea.....

[scottish-guy]

.... just for everyone's information - the average pension in Europe is just a few Euro above 1K.....

Okay - 1000 euro per month is about £830 a month or just under £10,000 a year right?

State pension in Spain is £26,630.....in Germany it's £26,366.....Sweden £25,515.....with Denmark, Ireland, Netherlands also all above £10,000...even the UK's minimum income guarantee for pensioners is not far off the €1000 a month mark with lots of added benefits. So can I assume you know no-one from any of those countries?

Plus many many people have private pensions in addition to that which the state provides.

Of course there are countries in Europe which have much lower state pensions - but I don't mean to be heartless when I say that pensioners in these countries are unlikely to be contemplating relocating to Thailand.

Now, I'm not saying that people living only on a state pension in Europe are affluent - but (quite rightly) most countries leave them far from destitute.

[Mancs]

Have we seen how much this costs yet? Twice the elite visa perhaps?

[cdnmatt]

Have we seen how much this costs yet? Twice the elite visa perhaps?

From the sounds of things, it doesn't cost anything except the small VISA / application fees. You just need to prove you have the funds, not pay them. Whereas with the Elite card, it's 500,000 THV you pay for a 5 year VISA.

[Up2U]

I seriously doubt that existing arrangements will be grandfathered. The truth is, Prayut does not like Westerners and particularly not those staying here for the long-term (even worse so if those reside in Pattaya), and that way he can elegantly kick out an estimated 50% or rather more of those aliens without having to show his true intentions.

And just for everyone's information - the average pension in Europe is just a few Euro above 1K.
I don't know any fellow European who gets 100K Baht worth of pension and I do not only hang out with cheap-charlies and low-life creatures. If you have an additional private or company pension or own property, that is another story then.
Lucky am I that all these rules won't affect me before Nov 2017 as a "little birdie" alerted me of immediate changes and I managed to extend my documents early. But plan B is already in the drawer. There are many fish in the South Chinese sea.....

I would not jump to any conclusions. Everything I have read is this an expansion, an addition to existing programs and mirrors retirement options in neighboring Malaysia.

[Nirish guy]

.....even the UK's minimum income guarantee for pensioners is not far off the €1000 a month.

But is the point not that assuming SG that your figures for a UK pension are correct ( and I'm happy to make that assumption) then as you've said that's only guaranteeing the average pensioner around £830 a month income, whereas the Thai visa minimum requirement is somewhere around the £2250 mark NET after taxes (based on todays exchange rate), so I'd imagine that that's quite a stretch for the average pensioner to bridge what with them having no job now and then having to find some way of that coming into their bank account each month ? ( aside from residual income from the sale or rental of any farangland property they might own or have sold previously etc)

And maybe I'm TOTALLY wrong here and perhaps most pensioners are sitting quite happy on large pensions and I'm just out of touch with such things, but I always just assumed ( in Thailand especially) that that wasn't perhaps the case. But I'll be very happy for everyone if I'm told I'm absolutely wrong and everyone is sitting pretty and counting their pots of gold each month when their income cheque lands ( does anyone even USE cheques anymore ! See, see just how out of date I am re such things ! :-)

[scottish-guy]

The UK's minimum income guarantee for pensioners is exactly that - the minimum which is available to to every pensioner who relies solely on the state and who has banked savings under a certain level.

Because it is the minimum it follows that its not the average and it totally excludes pensioners with private pensions.

I personally know someone who has 2 large pensions from public sector bodies, his basic state pension, and is still consulting for various companies at a very respectable daily rate. Good luck to him.

I think we also have to remember r that in the UK many, many pensioners are sitting on an asset worth hundreds of thousands of pounds and in London, millions.

In no way am I suggesting that there are not pensioners who are just getting by (hence the minimum income guarantee) - and clearly they are not the kind of people who would be relocating to Thailand or anywhere else - but there are huge numbers of pensioners who are extremely well off in cash or asset terms (and who still screw the system for every free perk they can get).

[francois]

.. I'm absolutely wrong and everyone is sitting pretty and counting their pots of gold each month when their income cheque lands ( does anyone even USE cheques anymore ! See, see just how out of date I am re such things ! :-)

Many of us don't have a pot to piss in much less pots of gold.:cray_mini:

[scottish-guy]

Well, don't be tempted to piss in a flower pot - I found out the hard way

[frequent]

Well, don't be tempted to piss in a flower pot - I found out the hard way

Cactus flowers?

[fountainhall]

The confusion continues, if the letters in today's English papers are anything to go by. One correspondent states that the insurance requirement covers both out-patient and in-patent care. My guess is that a considerable number of those already living here who have insurance policies well in excess of the minimum amount required will have opted out of out-patient care. I know I have. It saves me about Bt. 40,000 per year on my premium and I have never spent more than about 7.000 in any one year so far. As for the future . . . ?

There seems also to be no mention of deductibles. Again my guess is that most have policies with deductibles, either per illness or per annum. Again I have a per annum deductible which reduces the premium very considerably. How will the regulation cover someone with, say, US$100 deductible per illness against someone with a $500 annual deductible?

Then there is the issue of co-insurance. This is, I think, less common here but it is one way of making a substantial reduction in annual premium. It's what i do. In order to ensure I have sufficient funds to cover the co-insured amount, I have a separate bank account into which I have ploughed all the savings from the much lower annual premiums plus some extra cash each year. This is now more than enough to cover at least a couple of serious operations should they become necessary. Of course, the problem then is that the pot has to be topped up again. On balance, however, I have been pretty fit so far and am way ahead of the game - so far - doing it this way.

And then there is the even more worrying concern that some policies that quite a few people have been advised to take out here in Thailand have no guarantee of cover after age 75. That is left to the insurance company to decide. It's a mad policy in my view since we are more likely to need the cover after 75 than before. But I know several people issued with this type of policy.

So even before thinking about the financial issues, I guess we all will have to wait and see what the detailed regulations are re insurance - once someone in whatever Department actually bothers to get round to thinking about them!

[Up2U]

Well, I think both meet the financial income and medical insurance requirements(?) but this new 10 year extension is too much of a hassle to me so I will continue to do the 1 year extensions.