Soi Twilight; medical care

[Oliver]

An interesting conversation with a cute and personable young man with excellent English on the soi last night. He said that the workers are examined regularly for STDs (including hiv), which is as it should be. However he also claimed that he was being provided with hiv prep medication as a result of this examination on a daily basis and this surprised me. Has anyone else heard of this practice?

[latintopxxx]

Interesting. Wonder what the cost of PrEP is in Thailand. I found lotsa guys in Ft Lauderdale were on it or claimed to be on it...and one of the scariest downsides is the huge amount of bare backing at the sauna (The Club) and cruise club (Slammers).
Still if some soi twilight bars are offering it to the working boys then that can only be good. Know that some were being doped up with kamagra.

[francois]

Know that some were being doped up with kamagra.

Kamagra is not a dope, it is a tonic.

[paperboy]

hi
can you buy PrEP in thialand

[Davey612]

PrEP is Truvada. It is quite expensive if you do not have health insurance coverage. However, I believe that in Thailand there is a generic version of it. It is basically a combination of two other generic drugs. I applaud if Thai bars are providing this kind of help to their workers.

Here in the US, PrEP is becoming more commonly used. There is a question of how long you have to take it for the protection to become effective. The FDA's suggestion of 21 days on a daily basis is, IMHO, conservative. There has been a trial of using "on demand" PrEP (take 2 pills 24 hours before your planned sex act and then 1 for the following 4 days I believe). The results of that on demand PrEP trial is still being verified by other trials.

IMHO, if PrEP is used in combination with condoms, then the maximum protection against HIV and STDs are provided. Of course, as some of you guys commented, it has also liberated some guys to just do bareback. So far, only one person in Canada has become positive (and I believe it is because the rare strain of HIV in that case has become resistant to Truvada). Also, barebacking exposes you to other STDs, specifically Gonorrhea which is getting resistant to antibiotics.

[latintopxxx]

not sure how the tests are carried out but if they enrolled the top 10 bottoms from " slammers" they would have enough data for a cast iron proof study. Some of the guys assumed the doggy position in the communal playroom and got fucked by dozens of guys on a single evening...mostly bareback. Scary for someone like me who's had the whole " condoms are a must" message drummed into me since forever.

[Davey612]

Scary for someone like me who's had the whole " condoms are a must" message drummed into me since forever.

I agree on that part, given that I lost a dear friend during the early years of the epidemic. But if all of us (gays and straights) were using condoms all the time, then HIV would have been eradicated by now (well, unless a condom breaks here and there). An added benefit would be less kids too. The policy behind PrEP is that we humans do not totally follow the 100% usage of condoms. Hence the continuing new hiv infections. The downside, as latintopxxx wrote, is that it has made some of us go back to the go go years of the 70's-80's bathhouse scene. But on the whole, I believe PrEP is a nice option to have specially if you are a young gay man with humping testosterones.

[Nirish guy]

"He said that the workers are examined regularly for STDs (including "

No harm to your nice young guy there but I wouldn't take all you're told from Soi Twlight workers in this regard as gospel truth perhaps as I have it on good authority from a very old hand who's still working the soi after many years now they are encouraged - no - ordered to say exactly that as of course non of us wish to hear the opposite and if word of the opposite got out business could undoubtedly suffer.

I know for a fact of at least one case of a bar worker from the soi who picked up HIV but who continued to work the bar for a considerable amount of time ( years not months) while infected on a don't ask don't tell basis, there was also talk of doctors writing "this boy is clean reports" for 400 baht when requested without ever even taking the boys blood or running a single test ! The saddest part is that if the boys employer HAD insisted on proper checks the boy probably still would be with us. Unfortunately he's not as he didn't make it :-(

Likewise I personally ended up taking the same first guy that I've referred to above to Bangkok Hospital for his first HIV test in many years ( certainly over 6 years) - which thankfully and amazingly after many years of his working in the bar and his own fucking around personally when drunk and high all bareback he still somehow passed !!

So, whilst it's lovely to hope that what we're told about bars taking care of their boys and checking and helping the their staff whilst let's hope it's sometimes true personally I take most of those stories with a pinch of salt now and we should certainly NEVER assume those stories to be true when it comes down to risking our own health with any boy ( anyone) from Thailand especially where HIV is now running rampant again it seems :-(

[scottish-guy]

Yeah - file ".....boy test negative for HIV, sure" next to ".....boy do everything, sure".

[fountainhall]

But if all of us (gays and straights) were using condoms all the time, then HIV would have been eradicated by now (well, unless a condom breaks here and there).
However much I'd like to believe this, I frankly doubt it can be true. In the immediate pre-AIDS era when gays were finally able to express themselves sexually. and bathhouses becoming common, condoms were rarely used because no one was raising red flags.

Had condoms then been in general use, the numbers who have died or now have a chronic illness would certainly be considerably reduced. But let's recall this particular cat was out of the bag long before even the medical community knew what it was. By they time they were pretty sure, the virus was in the blood supply and had spread around the world. Then by the time the CDC realised it was present in all bodily fluids, the only thing that could have helped reduce its impact was the Reagan administration acknowledging it, putting up the funds the CDC was clamouring for - or leading an international effort to do so, and fighting it as it would a war. But we know that it was anathema to Reagan and his right-wing cohorts even to acknowledge the existence of gay men. It was only after his long-time gay friend Rock Hudson died that he even mentioned the disease.


"He said that the workers are examined regularly for STDs (including "
When I applied for my retirement visa I had to present a medical certificate confirming I did not suffer from 4 or 5 diseases like elephantiasis! As advised by a friend, I went to a tiny "alleged" medical clinic in a soi off Suriwong close to Twilight and was asked why I was there. When told about the certificate, one was ripped off a pad, a few boxes ticked and my name put at the top. The charge was Bt. 500 and that was it! Not tests, nothing!

If that's the sort of certificate bar boys are showing, I'd have absolutely zero trust in them

[latintopxxx]

...this really pains me...but I gotta agree with Nirish, I would be extremely scepticle of any assurance given by any MB/gogo boy....they say what u want to hear.

[frequent]

When I applied for my retirement visa I had to present a medical certificate confirming I did not suffer from 4 or 5 diseases like elephantiasis! As advised by a friend, I went to a tiny "alleged" medical clinic in a soi off Suriwong close to Twilight and was asked why I was there. When told about the certificate, one was ripped off a pad, a few boxes ticked and my name put at the top. The charge was Bt. 500 and that was it! Not tests, nothing!
My Australian doctor read the form supplied by the Thai Consulate, noted that the last sentence ended "free from any defect" and concluded that the certificate wasn't worth the paper it was written on. He also ticked the boxes and signed it without conducting any tests.

I understand the Red Cross in Bangkok does a roaring trade in HIV medication for farang, Thai, Cambodian money boys - anyone who turns up. These days HIV is no longer a death sentence, more a chronic illness like diabetes

[Nirish guy]

Are you aware does the Red Cross charge for their medication as I know a Cambodian guy / m/b, who tells me he's just been diagnosed with HIV ( in this particular case I just don't believe him actually and I think it was simply a failed attempted on his part to shake me down when he was mao).

Either way I've directed him to a charity in Bkk that I believe can help him free of charge but he's claiming "no one will help me as I'm Cambodian not Thai, so ok forget it, I just die now instead" ( nothing like a good bit of drama to help push along ones money request eh !),

But as I am aware that sometimes this CAN be the case another avenue of support would always be good to have up me sleave for his next "why you not help me" message.

I would add before anyone jumps on me that a) I would be the first to help a friend in need but b) I know this guy of old and have watched him through away chances that most Thai boys can only dream of where his farang BF took him to France to live and gave him "everythung" - only to have it thrown back in his face, then the guy to return to Bkk with plenty of money and piss it up against the wall and return ( by choice) to being a mb.

He then sent me what I know to be old photos ( taken in France) of him in hospital ( alledegedly in Bkk "dying") - the guy is just one of life's chancers and I'll no doubt hear from him in a month with some other different appeal when he sobers up and forgets his last conversation - but just in case a clinic that I can recommend KNOWING it is free and suitable for Cambodians would be a tool in my armoury of "good try but no chance mister!"

[Davey612]

...this really pains me...but I gotta agree with Nirish, I would be extremely scepticle of any assurance given by any MB/gogo boy....they say what u want to hear.

But then that is true of anyone who claims to be DD free in one of those apps. You just have to protect yourself.

Nirish guy reminds me again about the soap opera that occurs when dealing with a cute younger person with economic needs. I guess sick buffalos is no longer used as an excuse. lol

[scottish-guy]

What NIrish's story reminds me of is that whilst we may think we have heard it all before and are adept at sifting the lies from the truth, somewhere in the back of our mind there is just this nagging doubt of ....... "what if it's true".....

....Which is exactly what the disreputable ones bargain on of course