Tarntawan Hotel

[frequent]

I had an SMS overnight from a rather excitable friend who breathlessly told me that the Tarntawan Hotel, the Tarntawan Apartments and Dick's Cafe are all "closing down" on 31 December. I remain sceptical but others may claim a more intimate knowledge

[Old git]

Well, I just checked it on Booking.com and they're taking reservations for January..

[fountainhall]

Is Dick's ownership related in any way to that of the Tarntawan?

[Oliver]

My booking for February has not been withdrawn.

[frequent]

My booking for February has not been withdrawn.

That's a relief. I'm planning a visit after Songkran but haven't booked yet - it's 8 months away

[Orientfan]

Dick's and Tarntawan have the same Swiss/ Thai owners. I spoke with one of them last weekend and all seemed well; no mention of closure unless this is a sudden decision.

[Patanawet]

The hotel is not closing!
The apartment block is closing at the end of the year.

[frequent]

The hotel is not closing!
The apartment block is closing at the end of the year.
What about the eponymous "Dick's"? What is the source of your information (my hysterical queen friend is remarkably silent)?

[gerefan2]

I wrote to the Tarntawan Place Hotel about a booking in December and received this reply...

"Moana Hotels & Resorts will stop managing the Tarntawan Place 30 September 2016. The owning company will continue running the place under a new management and new name. Current reservations (with or without deposit) will be honoured.

[Oliver]

I have just received an email confirming my bookings for both September and February.
The question on my mind (obviously) is will the hotel be as welcoming to gay guests as it is now?

[scottish-guy]

.... talk about gilding the lily :D

What you mean is will they be as welcoming to customers dragging back assorted prostitutes as before - and since it is located more or less in Silom my guess would be yes, if they want to stay in business.

[ggobob]

Went online to book some October nights. Tarntawan/Ala Moana site doesn't allow for booking after September 30th. I sent an email to Lukas asking about ways to book and mentioned the internet chatter. I'll report back when/if I get a reply.

[gerefan2]

ggobob
Try Booking.com, Hotels.com Expedia.com etc., they are all accepting bookings after 1 October...(except Agoda)!

[frequent]

ggobob
Try Booking.com, Hotels.com Expedia.com etc., they are all accepting bookings after 1 October...(except Agoda)!

Why didn't we all think of that?! Site that owns the hotel doesn't accept booking so try for third-part sites who may not have updated their information. Works for me!

[ggobob]

I had a reply from Lukas about reservations in October and beyond. He said the Ala Moana management group was pulling out but the hotel is open and to book on line with another site. I'd note this is similar to the news that the Marriott in Pattaya is not going to continue as a Marriott but the hotel is still going to operate. Th physical hotel building is usually owned by someone/some corporation that then hires a management company to consolidate common services. This may be the case. Anyway Ill be there i two weeks.

So gerefan2's advice was good...thanks

[Maxxy]

I wrote to the Tarntawan Place Hotel about a booking in December and received this reply...

"Moana Hotels & Resorts will stop managing the Tarntawan Place 30 September 2016. The owning company will continue running the place under a new management and new name. Current reservations (with or without deposit) will be honoured.

Hope you don't mind but I posted their reply to you on another board to let those guys know what was happening

[newalaan2]

I had a reply from Lukas about reservations in October and beyond. He said the Ala Moana management group was pulling out but the hotel is open and to book on line with another site.
Disappointed to hear of changes as we've enjoyed the excellent level of service and continuity at Tarntawan for the last 16 years. If the management continues in a similar style after Sept 30 then no need to think about a move anywhere else in the Silom/Suriwong area. My normal Sept/Oct trip has been moved to an Oct/Nov trip this year, I have always just booked direct with the hotel never through a 3rd party, and just to confirm my November booking has been made with the 'friends' rate offered as usual.

Can always make a change nearer the time if I hear things have taken a turn for the worse.

[lukylok]

I just booked through the hotel site for a room in December.
Nothing changed at all, same price and conditions, and I immediately received the usual confirmation.

[Oliver]

My booking for February (as well as next week's) were quickly confirmed....but my worry is that the hotel will not be as gay-friendly as it is at the moment. If it sees its future as catering primarily for the Chinese market there may be a subtle (or not so subtle) change.
Are the present staff- many of whom have been there for years- being retained?

[fountainhall]

my worry is that the hotel will not be as gay-friendly as it is at the moment. If it sees its future as catering primarily for the Chinese market there may be a subtle (or not so subtle) change.?
The hotel is in a great area and could presumably generate greater profits for the new owners through a bit of longer-term upgrading. As Oliver suggests, I'd be wary of booking too far ahead until I know if there will be any major changes to its existing gay-friendly approach.

[scottish-guy]

Off topic - but in 2016 I find the advertising term "gay-friendly" outdated and patronising (it's ok when we say it of course!) - although I smirk at the approach of the Axel Hotel in Berlin (highly recommemded btw) which advertises itself as "Straight-Friendly"

[arsenal]

The term 'gay friendly' is very useful. It allows gay couples to avoid those places and instead knowingly try to book into one that isn't just so they can cause trouble. Or to have their wedding cake made by a fundamental Christian bakery, again perhaps driving past dozens of bakeries that would be only too happy to take the order to get to the one that doesn't want to.

[Nirish guy]

Can't believe you're throwing up the cake discussion and if you're referring to the Belfast "cake gate" the guy who ordered the cake ordered it from the Bakery not 5 minutes walk from his ( gay drop in centre) workplace ( where the cake was to be cut used later that day). He'd also ordered several random birthday cakes etc there previously and so thought nothing of ordering the "support gay marriage" cake there ( the cake was to be used for a photo shoot later that day). The shop also had a sign in the window saying " we make cakes to order".

So THAT was the point, he wasn't going out of his way to cause trouble, he was simply ordering a cake for use in his everyday ( gay) life - and therein lay the problem, the shop then chose not to supply him as they didn't agree with the message - as a business they should be expected to (and are required by law to) provide an equal service to ALL and not just to the people or the messages they like - and the judge agreed that point when the case went to trial ( which is now being appealed).

IF the guy HAD gone into the shop just "to cause trouble" then fair enough maybe - but he didn't - and you know what even if he HAD of that STILL doesn't mean that gay people or people chosing to promote a gay message should treated like second class citizens and denied service in a public shop which is situated on probably the busiest main shopping street in a UK city centre - otherwise where does it end - just substitute no gays in place of "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" perhaps ?

There, rant over, but I can tell you that when living with those such loving Christians types like that every day here in Northern Ireland, many of whom would rather we were at the least invisible, if not dead, they unfortunately deserve little sympathy in my book for their actions.

Whilst I do understand their position I also understand that in a modern society we are all bound by laws to ensure all people are treated equally under the law and I too have to deal with and supply some sections of people and political parties that I don't particularly like within my own business, but I also know that I just have to suck that up as if I refused service based on my "not liking them or their message" I too could end up in court - and the Christians should be no different in view as their private religious principals should have no bearing on my everyday shopping habits when I decide to walk into a shop on a high street somewhere with my being refused service simply because I'm gay or that they don't like the message I wish to promote - IMHO.

And apologies I've just realised that this is totally off topic here - so to get it back ON topic perhaps - speaking of the Tarntawan and cakes I wonder is / will they keep the nice wee cafe area on the front of the road when the management changes, as they sold lovely cakes - and even supplied them to gay people TOO ! lol

[a447]

Such a deft move to get back on topic! Lol

Not only do they sell cakes to gays, they also sell to the local police who are regular visitors, too. I wonder if they are aware what's going on upstairs?

[arsenal]

NIrish: Living in a multi cultural, multi faith, multi ethnic, multi sexuality society can only work if ALL parties make some compromises.

[ggobob]

NIrish - the Tarntawan's cake place is now Art Massage. Some of the "therapists" can be found on Jack'd. According to the satellite, two were 3356 feet from my 5th floor room in the Tarntawan.

[scottish-guy]

NIrish: Living in a multi cultural, multi faith, multi ethnic, multi sexuality society can only work if ALL parties make some compromises.

I fail to see the point of your comment in relation to gay people at least.

Do you suggest we to go back to the days of compromising over being branded criminals and being legitimate targets for violence, discrimination, and inequality?

What compromises have the likes of the so-called "Christian" cake-makers or guesthouse operators been willing to make?

I'm rather proud that (in my country at least) young people can now grow up protected by the law rather than criminalised by it as I was.

[Nirish guy]

NIrish: Living in a multi cultural, multi faith, multi ethnic, multi sexuality society can only work if ALL parties make some compromises.

Well if you're suggesting I allow someone to treat me as a second class citizen in my own country when I'm an equal tax payer just like they are and just so that they can feel better about their holier than thou views of the world then no, sorry, I'm not prepared to. I'm ALL up for supporting those peoples right to practice whatever religion they wish in their homes and churches etc - but once that comes to treating ME differently than the rest of the world just because I'm gay and they don't like / HATE gays then again, no, sorry that's just wrong in my view.

They are the ones with the issues not me, if their religion doesn't let them open a business where they can treat the world equally then they shouldn't open that business, their problem not mine - and thankfully the law supports MY position too in terms of discrimination of people because of nothing more than their sexuality being unacceptable and illegal in a modern society.

Again "no dogs, no irish, no blacks" etc - should we "compromise" on those things - or should black people sit at the back of the bus so as not to offend or annoy white people - as that would be a reasonable compromise - won't it ?

No, I don't think so. Make me the gay bitch, just like it says you do in your window, I don't give a rats ass if it offends your "personal" views, I'm not coming to your home or your church and asking you to make it in your spare time, I'm standing in a shop in a busy main street of a city, if your views are that twisted that you can't bake a cake for a customer who just happens to be gay then perhaps its your religion and why it's so hateful you need to concentrate on and not who I chose to live with, marry or fuck.

[arsenal]

Scottish and NIrish. I think you both realise I was suggesting nothing of the kind. However it is rather difficult to expect highly religious people to respect your lifestyle choices if you're not prepared to accept theirs. I suppose what I want is to have my cake and eat it, (geddit) That is for the bakery people to say "we don't really agree with your lifestyle but if you ask us to we will make you a cake" and for the gay people to say "that's fair but we know you don't want to so we won't ask." I know, a ridiculous situation.

But none of that removes the base of this in that it was an attack on the Christians by gay fundamentalists. And I disapprove of that just as much as if it was the other way around.

[scottish-guy]

So, being gay is a "lifestyle choice"?

Odd.

[arsenal]

Scottish: From the religious folks viewpoint. Yes.

It's pretty simple really. Make compromises in order to live together or have a war. In NI they had a war for a few decades and then they all agreed to compromise. Which do you think is better?

And perhaps I would have more respect for those people if they walked into a clearly moslem bakery and demanded that they bake them a wedding cake. Now that would take real courage.

[Nirish guy]

But none of that removes the base of this in that it was an attack on the Christians by gay fundamentalists. And I disapprove of that just as much as if it was the other way around.

Except ( and as I've already stated above in detail it WASN'T - it was a guy simply going into the same shop where he'd bought cakes before and asking for a cake, no big deal to him and he certainly never expected things to blow up as they did - it was the shops actions that caused the issue NOT his, buying a cake in a high street chain of bakery shops should not result in him being made to feel "less" than any other customer. Whatever the shop owners personal views are about equal marriage they should have remained just that in the work place - his PERSONAL views.

What if one of the shops staff members working there were gay buy not out, how would that make him feel about his "neutral" working environment, again thankfully there are laws about such things now but to allow these "personal views' to creep into being served on a shop in a main street in any city is a mistake as where does it stop - and I say ti again all not a million miles away from "no blacks, no dogs, no Irish' - just replace any of the above with "gays" - as be clear that IS what they meant - no matter what bullshit they are trying to spout now about "it was the message not the person we objected to". Bullshit ! It is and it was BOTH - as we all know just how much of an "abomination" we are to them, at least we should know as they certainly take every opportunity to remind us gays of that here in Northern Ireland at every chance they get !

It was the shop who decided they had an issue with his requested message on HIS cake i.e. a message being nothing more sinister than "support equal marriage" - not exactly earth shatteringly offensive to anyone I would have thought - and he wasn't asking the shop to write - this shop supports equal marriage - just "support equal marriage" - with the cake to be used / presented by his workplace a few hours later at support equal marriage event i funnily enough) - and I know the place and the meeting this was for as I've been in the very same gay outreach centre many times. so you can continue to claim that this was some form of attack ( which the Christians would just LOVE you to believe) but the plain facts are that it WASNT.

[scottish-guy]

Arsenal I bow to your obviously superior knowledge of the Koran and I can't speak to what it says to Moslems in relation to getting along with people - but when I was forced to go to Sunday School to be indoctrinated I seem to remember something about "love thy neighbour" and even "love your enemies" - has the Holy Bible changed as far as "Christians" are concerned because I'd have though that was a pretty fundamental tenet of that religion?

[Nirish guy]

it was an attack on the Christians by gay fundamentalists.

And since when does a gay man standing up and asking / demanding to be treated just exactly the same as any other customer make them a "fundamentalist" - and if it does well, where do I sign for gay Mujahideen as I for one am sick of people ( Christians especially here in N.Ireland ) looking down their noses at all gay people as if their own shit doesn't stink and so sometimes I think it is quite acceptable for me to say " you know what, enough, I'm not listening to anymore for your twisted bullshit that is even driving young gay guys to suicide no less and so I feel it's quite acceptable to turn round and say for 2000 years you've treated gay people like shit, well bollox to the lot of you' - personally I don't think that makes me a fundamentalist - but more simply a normal human being.

PS We / Surf ? really should move this whole series of posts elsewhere perhaps as we have / are unintentionally totally highjacking this thread it seems !

[Josan]

So what is happening with the apartments / employee side of the hotel? They have been told to move. Is the hotel being expanded?

[Dodger]

So what is happening with the apartments / employee side of the hotel? They have been told to move. Is the hotel being expanded?

I phoned the desk at Tarntawan today to reconfirm my reservation for my arrival night next week. No problems with my reservation...the apartment building next to Tarntawan (not the one where the staff reside) is being sold by the Swiss company that owns Tarntawan, and as for that there are no apparent changes.

If there are going to be any changes, i.e. changes in the management at Tarntawan, name change, etc., that information probably won't be disclosed until after the first of the year. There have also been rumors about Dick's Cafe's (BKK and PTY) which are also owned by the same Swiss company...who knows!

[Oliver]

The hotel has just posted a notice confirming what has already been noted here. Apparently, the new owners have promised to maintain its "essential character".
I understand that the staff will be informed shortly as to what the future holds for them.

[frequent]

Apparently, the new owners have promised to maintain its "essential character".A haven for prostitutes?

[Oliver]

Neither my boyfriend nor me are prostitutes. We were both saddened this morning when we said goodbye to staff who were not being retained after fifteen plus years of loyal service.Their treatment is shameful. The new owners seem to be unaware that it was the friendliness and helpfulness of people like them who made Tarntawan our choice for many years.

[Nirish guy]

Have all the existing staff be let go, the receptionists and door men ?? Aww who will remember that I only like 510 or 512 but definitely not 515 now before I even mention it ! :-( Not to mention the daily howl of laughter when I step out of the lift and say good morning to the security guy, who looks at his watch and replies yes good AFTERNOON Mister, you loose your watch already !? Or the breakfast lady serving me "breakfast" ( at maybe 3pm ) and remembering I like the crispy bacon and giving me extra - ha but totally forgetting to add the sausage ( only to repeat the same exercise in reverse the very next day after me reminding her :-)

Just as you say it was the kindly staff there who made the place feel like a home from home and it would / will be sad to see them (all ?) go - and for what as no doubt they'll only be replaced with duplicate staff again anyway ?

[frequent]

The new owners seem to be unaware that it was the friendliness and helpfulness of people like them who made Tarntawan our choice for many years.
Undoubtedly the owners have something different in mind when they say they'll preserve the essential character of the business than retaining the human capital that gave it its essential character. All bosses are arseholes - it goes with the territory

[Oliver]

NIRish....it was those guys to to whom I was referring.

[neddy3]

We were both saddened this morning when we said goodbye to staff who were not being retained after fifteen plus years of loyal service.Their treatment is shameful. The new owners seem to be unaware that it was the friendliness and helpfulness of people like them who made Tarntawan our choice for many years.

The hotel will not be the same without these friendly familiar faces.

I'm already starting to think about possible other hotels for the future..

[Oliver]

As am I. It's not just the fact that no longer can I expect such a warm welcome when I return after an arduous plane journey but that the manner in with which such people are being dispensed leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I do not believe that the new management will find such cheerful, accommodating staff to replace those they have willingly lost.
I fear that it speaks eloquently of one of the negatives that I've always felt about Thailand- and usually avoided confronting- about the way working people are treated by those with money, power and influence.

[frequent]

I'm already starting to think about possible other hotels for the future..

As am I ...I do not believe that the new management will find such cheerful, accommodating staff to replace those they have willingly lost.
If you don't go back, how will you know?

[Oliver]

I have a booking for February which I shall honour....and shall cast a critical eye over the new management.

[scottish-guy]

Really, Oliver - how many "p"s are there in pomposity

:D

[neddy3]

If you don't go back, how will you know?

True enough.

I expect to find out when I stay in the near future.

[latintopxxx]

....as usual much a do about nada....

[newalaan2]

Just received an email from Tarntawan Place Hotel announcing a 'change of operator' from Moana to Value Hotels Co Ltd. It is also 'expected' that the name will change to The Tarntawan Hotel Surawong Bangkok. All contracts before Oct 1 remain the responsibility of Moana and after Oct 1 Value Hotels Co Ltd. All reservations beyond Oct 1 to be honoured.

[Nirish guy]

Right ! That's it, if they're changing the name from The Tarntawan Place Hotel to the Tarntawan Hotel that's it, I can never stay there again, they've ruined the whole thing now, that's it, I'm calling for a boycott !! next thing they'll be changing the all day breakfast to Breakfast all day ! Where will it ever end !!!!

[Oliver]

Any explanation as to why the staff members have been dismissed?

[newalaan2]

Any explanation as to why the staff members have been dismissed?
No explanation for anything other than the change of operator. The main email was from the new management with a pdf file attached which was a copy dated 29th Sept of the announcement from The Tarntawan Place Hotel (previous operators) signed by Lucas basically stating the same info as each other. The email address for the new operator is info@tarntawansurawong. I would imagine everyone with a current booking would receive the notification.

You posted that you were there when staff received their dismissal notices, did you find out how many of the staff were let go/affected? Half, some, 90%, all? Irrespective, I'll look forward to our up coming stay there and hope that it's still as welcoming.

[Oliver]

We were just leaving for the airport when we learnt of the fate of one of our "friends" who happens to share the home town of my boyfriend and so always chats with him.

We have a booking for February and have not received any information from the new owners, though Lucas confirmed a couple of weeks ago that our bookings remained valid.

I await with interest reports from current guests.

[Maxxy]

One report read elsewhere that Lucas is no longer with the hotel

[neddy3]

I stayed a night at the Tarntawan Place very recently. These are my observations.

(BTW Latintop, nothing following is about riding boys like ponies, so try the next thread.)

The two guys who are the 'lift guards' were both still working at the hotel.
They are nice guys, and one of them is extremely friendly and charming, so I was very pleased to see that they had been retained.
The waitress at breakfast was a lady that I had met beforehand.
However, the doormen seemed to be gone.
And all the staff at the front desk were new. The fact that they were wearing civilian clothing rather than uniform made it obvious.
They were friendly and pleasant, but, none of them seemed very sure about what they were doing.
The were very slow to get things done, and had to check, check.
The only person who seemed to be 'with it' was a lady supervisor.

It is still a nice and convenient hotel for my purposes, and the staff are nice.
Some familiar faces remain, but some seem to be gone.

[latintopxxx]

neddy.....yawn....

[Maxxy]

The two guys who are the 'lift guards' were both still working at the hotel.

And all the staff at the front desk were new.

The one guard at the lift with the close cropped hair I always had a good chat with and was hoping he survived the cut, he was usually on during the day but my last trip he was doing the night shifts. Likewise the good looking girl at reception with the braces, I was hoping she survived the lay offs too.

[Oliver]

The guy on the lift told me that he was leaving when his shift finished on Friday. If he was granted a last-minute reprieve, I'd be delighted.

[Josan]

Any word about bringing guests back to the room?

[Josan]

The same Tarntawan Place Hotel website is back up just like before???? Even mentions the old management company. Did the deal fall through?

Any news about Dick's Cafe in BKK or Pattaya?

[Oliver]

I wrote to the management requesting confirmation of my February booking. I was surprised to receive a reply from Lucas; I thought he'd gone.

[Stevebsu]

I have just received an email confirming my bookings for both September and February.
The question on my mind (obviously) is will the hotel be as welcoming to gay guests as it is now?
I'm at the Tarntawan now and I've have never seen so many women staying here. Most of the guest are from China, which seems to be true of Thailand today. The employees of hotel say they have no idea what the future holds. A return on investment means you do what you need to do to make a profit.

[scottish-guy]

Ok I quite understand that some SGT members are quite attached to the place - but it's one hotel of many.

This thread is turning wailing, hand-wringing, and gnashing of teeth into an art form

[Patanawet]

I'm told that the new owners kept 17 of the original staff on.
5 have since left!

[Magnum]

At least the old book is still there where the lift guy is writing down all guest information.

[Oliver]

I don't see why the attachment of some of us to a hotel which has served our community well for so many years should be described as "hand-wringing", particularly when we are sad for the staff who have lost their jobs. One of them left a couple of days later to return home- an area which has few employment opportunities.
For some of us, it's not "one of many" but one of a kind. And the staff to whom we've been referring are real people to us, who've given cheerful service for years.

[scottish-guy]

I'm not saying you shouldn't mourn the demise of a hotel you liked staying in - but 7 pages already and I can't be bothered to count all YOUR posts Oliver.

A sense of proportion would be welcome, that's all

[Nirish guy]

I'm afraid I agree with Oliver and the like SG.

I'm not sure if you've stayed in TW much but the staff were more like old friends than staff. They know more about me and my times in Thailand than almost anyone else, from my first tender newbie steps there where they patiently suggested where I go, to signing in my first off, to no doubt standing back disgusted watching another farang turn into a sexual deviant with streams of guys taken back on multiple occasions on the same days sometimes and more. Likewise we shared many songkran fun and laughs over the years and also it has to be said a few rows over the years too when they perhaps stopped a few of my guests for one reason or another or when my other guests decided to wreck their rooms or caused chaos in reception for them for hours on end complete with the police being called and all sorts and whilst I slept it all off my own hangover totally unawares - and all with no more than a smile and a laugh the next morning and a "ohhh looks like you were a naughty boy again last night".

So, their demise is both saddening on a personal level for us knowing that their lives might be changing for the worse perhaps and also a little bit selfishly for myself in knowing that that segment of MY life has now stopped or changed a little - and so we're taking a collective moment to mark that change and dare I say it mourn our loss so to speak ( how about THAT for a dose of over dramatic gayness :-)

And Magmum as for that damned book now with the change in management it seems an ideal time that they should either destroy it ( as I fully expect it to be presented as evidence someday here in a UK court to prove what a sexual deviant I might be when I apply for the next vacancy as Pope or whatever etc ) OR use send it to me as a nice keepsake record of the fun I had ( and was apparently able to manage ) as a younger man, which as the months and years now whizz past all feel like some vague distant memory on so many levels these days !

[a447]

Well said, Nirish. The Tarntawan was more than just a hotel - it was part of the total experience.

I also feel sorry for those guys who have lost their jobs. I was particularly fond of the elevator guy with the short hair-style and big, big smile. On my last visit I happened to notice his watch (a Seiko) and told him how nice it looked. He was over the moon. What a lovely guy!

There are other hotel choices but none will match the warm welcome I always got at the Tarntawan.

[Oliver]

My solution to the perennial problem of posts about subjects which bore me is not to read the damn things.
A word to the wise?

[scottish-guy]

8 pages now - but feel free to knock yourselves out my lovelies

[Nirish guy]

we are - and yet STILL you're obviously not taking Olivers very sensible advice it seems :-)

[MiniMee]

I'm afraid I agree with Oliver and the like SG.I'm not sure if you've stayed in TW much...Well, you can be sure that Snotty has only visited Thailand once in the last six or seven years and he didn't stay there then, so that should answer your question. I am not a fan of the Tarntawan either, having stayed there once to see what the fuss was all about. But I see no reason to complain about others discussing current changes.

[frequent]

Ok I quite understand that some SGT members are quite attached to the place - but it's one hotel of many.

This thread is turning wailing, hand-wringing, and gnashing of teeth into an art form

What's wrong with mentioning bed-wetters - have you got something against them?

[scottish-guy]

Too kinky - have you been on any gay chat sites recently? :D

[scottish-guy]

Well, you can be sure that Snotty has only visited Thailand once in the last six or seven years and he didn't stay there then...

Firstly the "Snotty" joke originates from the early days of Star Trek and so it's about 50 yrs old and it also featured heavily in the 1987 movie "Spaceballs"- so my advice is to get some new material.

Secondly, forget accusing me of only being in Thailand once since 2009 - you well know I have never been in Thailand at all and am in fact a totally fictional character. I have never set foot in BKK, Pattaya, Phuket, or Chiang Mai - or anywhere else really. I have never met anyone in person from this forum either.

In BKK, since I've never been there I obviously have never stayed in the Tarntawan Hotel (not have I eaten their excellent breakfast) as you allege - but neither have I stayed in the Pavilion Place hotel, the Suriwongse Hotel, or The Strand Inn hotel.

In Phuket I have neither visited it nor stayed in the (former)Siam Palm hotel , the Poppa Palace hotel, Fong Kaew guesthouse, or Aquarius hotel.

Whilst not visiting CM I never stayed in the Lotus Hotel or visited the Adam's Apple club or the Coffee Boy bar, or any of the others whose names i forget - and of couse I never visited ANY of the night market gay bars.

In Pattaya (another place I haven't been), I've not stayed in the Welcome Plaza, the Mercure, Sansuk Guesthouse, Copa Hotel, or the Cafe Royale, and I also never checked out of Howard's within 20 mins of checking in.

So you see, there's no point accusing me of never having visited within any particular time frame because I readily admit to being a complete and utter fraud.

Happy now, sweetpea?

[Oliver]

Welcome to the Tarntawan Posting Stakes. Oliver (who's interested in the fate of the hotel) still leads with thirteen but SG (who's bored by the subject) is making good progress with a late run on the inside with ten posts.

[Blueskytoday]

It is now turning to nonsense........move on

[latintopxxx]

snotty u could have simply googled all of that info on the places u allegedly visited. What we need is a pic of u holding your passport, photo page open and a local newspaper with date visible whilst clutching a well known mamsan.

[gerefan2]

whilst clutching a well known mamsan.

No Latin...no... I would never wish my worst enemy to clutch Leila....you've gone beyond the pale this time!

[sydneyboy]

I stayed at the Tarntawan a number of times for all the obvious reasons but stopped because the place was to put it bluntly becoming shabby. Whoever the new owners are I hope they give the place a thorough refurbishment including the bathrooms and the common areas. I would love to stay there again because like so many contributors it was almost an integral part of the Bangkok experience.

[ggobob]

Just back from three weeks in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Vientiane, and Luang Prabang. Because of Air Asia schedules, I was in Bangkok at the beginning (2 nights), middle (one night), and two nights at the end before flying home. Each time in Bangkok I stayed at the Tarntawan. The new management group is in place, no familiars behind the desk. Some confusion as the prior records of guests left with the old management company. The registration form asks if you have stayed at the hotel before.

Rates seemed somewhat less than in the past. I asked for and was placed in room 555 as it is located next to the wireless router and has a strong internet signal. The night bellman who greeted me on the first visit wasn't there on the subsequent visit. The security guard took on the duties of the bellman.

When I came down the first morning it was early and I had a quick breakfast, breakfast lady still there and still great. I checked at the desk about my upcoming reservation made through Agoda and was told they didn't have it yet. I showed them my paperwork and the desk staff asked a manager (female) what to do. She entered the information and noted my room preference. Staff dress at the desk is eclectic, mostly polo shirts.

Next morning when I came down with my overnight guest, we were both astounded to see that there were no available tables for breakfast, all were occupied by a members (male/female) of a tour group from Malaysia. The security guard who was also helping to clear tables told me that the staff was happy (suspect that the increased business indicated to them that their jobs were o.k.?). The breakfast buffet this morning had disappeared and been replaced by a large tray of friend rice with a meat. The menu was still available for ordering but the group was the first priority.

Left after breakfast, returning several days later. Desk had my reservation, 555, all in order. New faces behind the desk. I'd been thinking about moving somewhere else for the next visit, but, instead asked for two more nights. Booked and left for Laos. Returned after the passing of the king. Large portrait of HM with a condolence book in the lobby. Noticed that what was Lukas' office is now the business center/library. What had been the business center and the travel agency are now empty. Looks like something is planned for the space but no one knew/wanted to talk. Saw a few of the regulars who were there when I last visited when Lukas was there. They were (like me) just rolling with the situation.

Because they are helping with multiple duties (i.e. being the night bellman) the security guard was often hard to find when wanting to drop off/pick up identification. The breakfast on my final morning was back to the regular buffet. I left at 3am the next morning and the two clerks on duty took a long time to check me out...major problem being that the credit card machine didn't seem to like any of the three cards I had. I offered USD but they wanted THB. My guest who was departing when I was, gave me TNB to cover what I didn't have in my wallet. I gave him the USD to replace and thank him for his unprompted generosity.

So will I go back? I have the names of few other places and have been looking at AirBNB. Coming from the SF Bay area I fly United which gets me in close to midnight, so AirBNB doesn't work for arrival night, so maybe Tarntawan will be a one night thing in the future. It's hard to change the routine after so many visits...but the hotel has changed and is changing and other than the three security guards and the breakfast lady, there is little to hold my loyalty.

[Blueskytoday]

There must be several other gay or gay very friendly hotels in BKK....this place looks like it is changing
so guys in the know,,should post other hotels worth checking out...

[Maxxy]

There must be several other gay or gay very friendly hotels in BKK....this place looks like it is changing
so guys in the know,,should post other hotels worth checking out...

Some have mentioned The Raya Surawong which is just near soi Twilight (same side and is new) and one that did stay there recommended it. No idea on their guest policy though but their pricing looks either similar or better than Tarntawan. I will be looking at this place on my next visit.

[a447]

Looks like I'll be going back to the Rose Hotel. Anyone stayed there lately?

[Nirish guy]

Not "lately" but about 2 years ago now and I found it to be fine. The room was small but that was more due to the small room I'd booked ( funny that eh) so I think if taking one of their even slightly larger rooms that would have cured that problem. They also have the added bonus of the swimming pool and joiners were no problem whatsoever as per in the TW.

[Josan]

ggobob, Thanks for your report. Much info.

The Raya Surawong looks nice. Wonder what their guest policy is?

Rose Hotel. Several years ago I booked in for two weeks only to find my whole room the same size as the bathroom at the Tarntawan! Left the next morning and back to the Tarntawan. Additionally the women at the front desk did not seem to know how to smile and there was an aged witch sitting at the elevator making comments!

[scottish-guy]

..there was an aged witch sitting at the elevator making comments!

FYI, I was waiting on my BF coming down from the room :cray_mini:

[colmx]

Last 2 times we stayed in the Rose we had Aircon units that didn't work

Multiple appeals to change room or fix aircon were ignored on our last (and final ever) visit

Best they could do was offer us a fan for the room

If you like to sleep in a relatively cool room do not stay in the Rose

[Josan]

As of yesterday Lukas was still at the Tarntawan. I emailed the hotel about airport transportation and he answered! They do continue to provide airport transportation.

[splinter1949]

Sorry to tell you Lukas does not work there anymore ,I think they still use his email address.
I was there a week ago and asked the staff about Lukas and they told me he is not there anymore

[Josan]

That may be so but I did not send Lukas an email but rather addressed it to the hotel email address located on the current hotel web page.

So who knows??

[bkkguy]

That may be so but I did not send Lukas an email but rather addressed it to the hotel email address located on the current hotel web page.

really? you found a web site for the new trading entity Tarntawan Surawong Hotel? I knew they had a registered domain name tarntawansurawong.com but did not know they had a working web site or published email addresses yet - perhaps they are using another domain name? do let us know the URL and email address you found

they are of course on some of the hotel booking sites, eg agoda.com and booking.com has them listed - perhaps confusingly as Tarntawan Hotel Surawong and Tarntawan Surawong Hotel respectively

I assume you're not confusing this with the previous trading entity Tarntawan Place at URL www.tarntawan.com and email address tarntawan@tarntawan.com? both the URL and email address are still active

Monty Python fans will probably by now be wondering if all this was set up as a parody of the antics of the Judean People's Front v's the People's Front of Judea in Life of Brian.

bkkguy

[Nirish guy]

Monty Python fans will probably by now be wondering if all this was set up as a parody of the antics of the Judean People's Front v's the People's Front of Judea in Life of Brian. bkkguy

If so then they've all just been very naughty boys and they should just go away !

[Patanawet]

As of yesterday Lukas was still at the Tarntawan.

I doubt it. Lukas went to Switzerland a few days ago to escort his mother home.

[GWMinUS]

The end of an Era
and hopefully the end of this Thread.
Time to suggest some other Gay-Friendly places in BKK
Besides the long list we have known before...
Would be good to know since I may be there in February.
GWM in USA

[frequent]

Time to suggest some other Gay-Friendly places in BKK
I've never understood the phrase "gay-friendly". What does it mean in a Thailand context? People don't glare at you when you come down to breakfast with last night's prostitute in tow? Why should you care? I've even seen gays glare when someone is "letting the side down" in that way. Fuck 'em, I say. People are far too sensitive.

[newalaan2]

The end of an Era
and hopefully the end of this Thread.
Time to suggest some other Gay-Friendly places in BKK
Besides the long list we have known before...
Would be good to know since I may be there in February.
GWM in USA
Why is it the 'end of an era' why is it time to suggest some other gay friendly places? Virtually nothing has changed at the Tarntawan. Sure the mini-bar content is next to nil, but that is because the new management have to wait or decided to wait to introduce their own 'system'. What else is 'different'? well you have to re-register because apparently all the previous customer info was not available. So my bf and I had to fill in two lines on a sheet and handover our IDs as usual. Breakfast in rooms is now NOT 24hr, but that said...one of the previous staff was happy to oblige at 5pm, as the change was unknown to me. There was no info in the room to advise of changes, apparently the breakfast details were in the lift which I never use if only on 3rd floor.

The business/office has moved within the reception area to the left rather than straight on from the reception desk, has usual 2 computers and working printer I used for boarding card print. Papers available. Both lift/ID retainers still working there although have to double as bell-boys, security. We arrived went in to register and our luggage was up in our room, car parked and key left with security by the time we got to our room minutes after arriving....just as efficiently as normal. Less reception staff, but how many people does it take to hand over a room key?

'Well built' doorman/bell boy, 2 lift/ID guys, room service lady all same as before. 2 new staff behind reception desk.

My normal 'friends' rate was given along with a decent room on the 3rd floor. WiFi worked fine as usual. Tea/coffee/kettle in room as normal. Towels/bedding as normal. GAY FRIENDLY attitude as normal.

As usual there was a mix of other customers coming and going, some Korean, Chines, 6 Japanese golfers, gay gentlemen with boy thai friends, Japanese men with female Thai friends......

Personally I neither saw nor experienced any real negatives that would require me to look elsewhere for my brief stays in Surawong. Best indication for me was when I told bf as we were driving down Suriwong what had changed with Tarntawan...later he said he noticed nothing except mini-bar was light. We ordered food on room service menu, I had usual pork stew and mash (after weeks of rice and rice was craved) and bf had two Thai dishes prepared and tasted as before...very good.

If my next visit end January substantially changes to the point where we don't enjoy our stay, then that may the time to re-think. As for now, we'll stay with it.

By the way......ALL of the various staff members retained and now reliant on returning customers to keep their jobs intact, went out of their way to thank us for returning to stay at the Tarntawan. BF said when I was out and room service delivered the lovely lady we have known for years...went well out of her way and chatted a while with him to thank him for returning.

[Josan]

Newalaan2! Great report! Thanks for all the news and notes about the hotel. Still sounds good!

[Maxxy]

Newalaan, thanks for sharing that, sheds some light on what's going on

[Patanawet]

By the way......ALL of the various staff members retained

17 of the original staff were retained ----- 5 of whom have since left.

[newalaan2]

17 of the original staff were retained ----- 5 of whom have since left.
Thank you for that clarification, but I didn't say/mean to say ALL staff were retained, what I meant was...all (as in every one) of those who were retained and happened to be on duty during our stay went out of their way to thank us for returning.

The main thing I forgot to add was that the ambience hadn't changed for me or my bf. Often when we have our brief stays there they don't always coincide with all staff members being on duty, also there are shift changes, so we are used to not seeing everyone every time, the only one who we see every trip and did not see this one was the outside security guard, who always parks our car and moves it around the parking area to suit whatever vehicles come and go.


Fuck'em I say....people are far too sensitive
That's all very well you having an 'attitude'.....and when faced up, I too, have absolutely no problem in saying my bit, but when I'm with a Thai....why would you want to be on holiday and look to invite glares, disrespect or whatever? I come to relax, gay-friendly ambiance is part of that.....it beggars belief you have never understood what 'gay friendly' means in a Thai context....and why should you care??

Well in my opinion one should 'care' about the feelings of your Thai bf/partner/friend/whatever. It is not just my situation I have to consider, it is my bfs too, the gay friendly staff non-attitude is actually more for his comfort and ease. It seems to me you have little concept of 'gaeng jai' and complications which impact negatively, for you probably means nothing...zilch... but if you are with a Thai that is a selfish and naïve attitude. My bf would NEVER consider the possibility of 'Fuck'em' attitude. We have stayed in places at the start of our relationship where snobby, negative staff/customer attitude was clearly picked up, not by me, but by him as that is who is was directed at. I'm not having that! and I don't want to be bothered with creating scenes just to try and win an arguement. I/we simply stay where we are comfortable, and if that includes the term 'gay friendly' then so be it. Life is too short to be continually facing up to negativity, I get enough of that shit in Euroland! So no, not too sensitive, merely seeking out comfortable, non-confrontational surroundings.

[Nirish guy]

Thanks to new Allan for the clarification that not much of anything has changed ( which I'm sure many will be relieved about) - now, the one hughly important question that as yet remains unanswered ...... are the two bars of that LOVELY chocolate still in the room !!!!

I keep meaning to note down the brand name to get a box (more like a crate) shipped home as that, "almost" as much as enjoying cute guys is my other sneaky BKK dirty little secret when staying in the Tarntawan !

[MiniMee]

It seems to me you have little concept of 'gaeng jai' and complications..... 'gaeng jai' (แกงใจ) or 'curry-heart' is a new concept for me too. Is it somehow the opposite to jai yen? You probably meant 'kreng jai' (เกรงใจ) literally 'awe-heart' which is the Thai concept of being afraid to offend and therefore be considerate.

[Josan]

_
Well for me I hope the NEW Tarntawan has a new chief! Before breakfasts were good but some of the dinner entries were sad!


Any status reports on the Indra Massage around the corner from the hotel on Soi Tawan? I recall that they are housed in the Tarntawan Apartments.

_

[scottish-guy]

... some of the dinner entries were sad....

Nah, I'm willing to bet NIrish has had some great entries after dinner at the Tarntawan.

And probably before and during dinner as well!!

[arsenal]

Scottish: NIrish. That man could get a creamy nibble between the nibbles and the ice cream if he chose to. In any well run society his dedication to pursuing sex would have earned him a bauble in the birthday honours list.

[Nirish guy]

Alas it seems my reputation proceeds me and I am but a mere shadow of my former slutty self - although that's more self enforced and location based this last while than anything else so I might just revisit my old self when in the Philippines just to be sure that there's still some life in the old dog yet ! :-)

[werner]

I recently stayed two nights in Tarntawan.

Service was ok; staff members were friendly and more-or-less efficient. Food and coffee were mediocre.

The place seemed a lot less "gay" than before. On my floor, two guests entered rooms with Thai girl friends.
I wonder if the new management is trying to cater more to non-gay folk?

The location is conveniently located for the gay venues. No one cared that I brought two guys back one night. The staff demanded that they leave their IDs at the front desk, and telephoned me after they had left.

[Josan]

Werner, Thanks for the up-date!

[Patanawet]

Fuck'em I say....people are far too sensitive
That's all very well you having an 'attitude'.....and when faced up, I too, have absolutely no problem in saying my bit,

Did I really write that newalaan?
If I did, then I sincerely apologise; it is not my style or intent. It must have been after a very heavy night.

I have quickly scanned through all the posts in this thread and can't find where that quote came from.

[Blueskytoday]

AS usual..off subject of original post, now back and forth about crap

[a447]

I thought I'd look for somewhere else to stay when I first read about the changes, but I've just booked the Tarntawan for my upcoming trip. I did so based on recent comments here. It seems that there haven't been major changes, although I think the prices may have increased; I'm not sure.

[Patanawet]

A friend, staying there at the moment, said that up to yesterday he encountered very few Chinese.
Yesterday however there was an abundance of them there in reception.

Another hotel in Silom Soi 3, popular with some friends has just said that they will not be accepting Chinese group bookings any more.

[Josan]

Any information about the travel company inside the hotel. Are they still there?

What about the small library that was in the computer room?

[scottish-guy]

OMFG is this still going on?

[Patanawet]

Any information about the travel company inside the hotel. Are they still there?

What about the small library that was in the computer room?

Was it Purple Dragon? They are now in Charn Issara Tower on Rama 9. Next to up2 hairdressers (the owner, Luck, is cute and a very good hairdresser) which I think still takes Balcony members'cards. But I digress.
OR was it Utopia ---- easily found on the net.

Purple Dragon, Ltd.
942/58 Charn Issara Tower 1
Rama 4 Road, Bangrak
Bangkok 10500 Thailand
Telephone: +(66) 2-236-1776 (from outside Thailand)Telephone: 02-236-1776 (within Thailand) Fax: +662-632-8664 - See more at: http://www.purpledrag.com/contact.htm#sthash.YU6QRXxd.dpuf

[Patanawet]

Was it Purple Dragon? They are now in Charn Issara Tower on Rama 9. Next to up2 hairdressers (the owner, Luck, is cute and a very good hairdresser) which I think still takes Balcony members'cards. But I digress.
OR was it Utopia ---- easily found on the net.

Purple Dragon, Ltd.
942/58 Charn Issara Tower 1
Rama 4 Road, Bangrak
Bangkok 10500 Thailand
Telephone: +(66) 2-236-1776 (from outside Thailand)Telephone: 02-236-1776 (within Thailand) Fax: +662-632-8664 - See more at: http://www.purpledrag.com/contact.htm#sthash.YU6QRXxd.dpuf

Correction Purple Dragon and UP2 hair salon are on Rama 4, not Rama 9, sorry.
Between Silom and Suriwong and close to Chula Phesaj pharmacy.

[werner]

What do all of you think: Is the new management trying to make Tarntawan Hotel less "gay"?
The hotel seemed to have many more gay guest during past visits....

[Josan]

The travel agency was not Purple Dragon or Utopia. After Purple Dragon moved a different agency moved in. Don't think they were gay directed but a couple of their guides were nice!

[fountainhall]

The travel agency was not Purple Dragon or Utopia.!
I wonder if anyone recalls the details of the closure of that gay tour travel agency based in Tarntawan. I thought it was Utopia Tours, but it have been Spice Trade Travel. Whatever the name, I took a trip to Phnom Penh with them and then booked a night tour of Luang Prabang in the early 2000s, both of which were excellent.

There was a big scandal in 2004 which forced the closure of that company. Two of the directors were arrested for distributing pornography and employing an under-age worker in the Tarntawan office. The pornography count was merely based on the brochures they had in their office which had nothing to do with pornography! It was just unfortunate that the Thaksin social order campaigns were under way and some in the government were trying to crack down on gay tourism in general.

The BIB then found stacks of files of young boys in sex acts with one of the directors, an Australian, during a search of his home and the charges were upgraded to include child sex tourism. My recollection is that the Australian was deported, the agency was closed and a legal fund was established to help in its defence of distributing pornography. The outcome was that the agency eventually got its licence back but changed the name to Purple Dragon.

[Tintin]

This incident wasn't part of a general crack down on gay tourism, but rather a case of Thais not being able to say "no" when faced with a strong request.

The story was covered by Yawning Bread:
http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2005/yax-435.htm
http://www.yawningbread.org/guest_2005/guw-098.htm

From the first link:

At 11.30 a.m. on 19 March 2004, immigration police and assorted officials burst into a small travel company (...)

No evidence would ever be found, an outcome that would be quite apparent by the following day. Yet, nine months later, two men would be convicted of a substitute offence, which is why it was so sordid (...)

But when you look closely at the details, the Thais didn't seem to have wanted to pursue the case. The Australians were pressuring them all the way.

And further on:

The Australians wanted Scoble convicted. When the Thais couldn't find anything incriminating in his apartment, the Australians leaned on them to proceed with charges related to Spice Trade Travel. To make it look as if the business was somehow involved, the other director, John Goss, was also charged. And when the prosecution's case looked ridiculously weak, the judge still found a way to rule that a non-pornographic magazine was pornographic, and even when given away free, there was trading in obscene material.

[scottish-guy]

Don't know the details, but to be fair it's common sense that "trading" is "trading" - whether the product is free or paid for.

It's rather like being required in the UK to hold a Consumer Credit licence to offer interest-free credit.

[Tintin]

Well, the Thai Guys magazine was a gay magazine that was freely distributed at all gay establishments and wasn't pornographic at all.

And the "under-age worker" wasn't under-age, but Italian! He was charged with not having a work permit, but actually his work permit was already in progress, and he received it the following Monday.

[fountainhall]

The Australians wanted Scoble convicted. When the Thais couldn't find anything incriminating in his apartment, the Australians leaned on them to proceed with charges related to Spice Trade Travel.
Thanks for posting those comments from yawningbread. I have learned ages ago not to trust much that appears in the Bangkok media. But this comment in yawningbread, a Singapore-based site, is not accurate in relation to evidence allegedly found in the apartment as it is referred to several times subsequently in the same yamningbread report as well as elsewhere, including the Melbourne Age and the Sydney Morning Herald.

There were clearly two cases here. The one which hit most of the Bangkok headlines concerned the travel agency in Tarntawan in which the charges about pornographic material had no basis in law, despite the arrests and subsequent jailing of the directors. Indeed, I was one of many who contributed to its defense fund and was delighted when the case virtually collapsed and the company was eventually able to trade again.

Yet one of its directors was the Australian Scobie, a former deputy Ambassador in Hanoi who had been recalled in the 1980s after allegations of sexual abuse there. According to a 1996 Australian government enquiry, he had used the diplomatic bag to courier photos of young naked boys, some simulating sex, to an Australian mission friend who was at that time acting as a High Commissioner somewhere. He claimed this was just a joke, but it was the reason for his recall. Six months later, Interpol found his name and embassy address on an Amsterdam database of a man believed to be distributing child pornography. However, no charges were ever filed against Scobie.

Regarding the Utopia Tours incident, the Age story differs markedly from that published by yamningbread. Here is one instance -


While a raid on the Bangkok offices of Spice Trade Travel revealed nothing more incriminating than a clutch of gay magazines . . . a search of Scoble's luxury apartment in one of Bangkok's most exclusive neighbourhoods found enough material for Thai investigators to lay the first of what they forecast will be several charges relating to the abuse of children.


Amid a cache of pornographic videos, computer disks and magazines, police say they found more than 100 albums containing photographs of young teenage and pre-teen boys - many in explicit sexual poses. The photographs, described by one officer as sexual "catalogues", and other evidence have convinced police that Scoble and one of his partners, American John Charles Goss, were using their legitimate travel business as a front to market Thai children to foreign pedophiles.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/26/1079939847857.html


It was never proved these images really did come from Scobie’s apartment and the Australian reporter for The Age subsequently agreed she only wrote about what the police had shown to her. But it seems certain that Scobie had at least been collecting a wide variety of pornography, some of which may have involved underage youths. Yamningbread actually admits this when it states “ it was noted . . . that investigators had mixed together materials from the offices and Mr. Scobie’s home.” In the same article it quotes John Goss as saying “The early intention was to arrest Scobie on the things they found in his home.” So although planting evidence in Thailand is not unusual, video and print materials – some perhaps indecent and illegal - certainly seem to have been found at Scobie’s home.

So was this just a case of 2+2 equaling 23? This conclusion was certainly true as far as Utopia Tours was concerned. But Scobie was a director of the company and already on a watch list. Whilst it is true Australia was on the lookout for diplomats and others involved overseas in sexual perversions, I can't imagine any reasonable person objecting to this. Although the initial action by the authorities against Utopia Tours was probably never very serious, the Scobie connection made it much more so.

It is, I suggest, also interesting that The Age article goes on to mention a public statement subsequently issued by the PR firm acting for Spice Trade Travel. After announcing that Scobie had resigned from the tour company and claiming that there was no basis for the charges against John Goss, significantly -


it made no attempt to defend Scoble.
A company’s media release makes no attempt to defend the company’s managing director? Surely that is extraordinary if he was indeed innocent?

And yet, adding further to the confusion, it also seems that Scobie was eventually never charged after he returned to his native Australia.

Finally regarding Tintin’s comment about this not being tied to the Social Order campaigns, I respectfully disagree. The police were first alerted to the gay nature of Utopia Tours when the Tourist Authority of Thailand received an anonymous letter about the promotion of gay tourism. The TAT alerted the police. It was perfectly clear that the company’s magazine had nothing to do with pornography, but it had a lot to do with promoting gay tourism. Under the puritanical Interior Minster Purachai’s Social Order campaigns, the objective was both to tighten laws on nighttime entertainment and clean up the country’s image as a sex tourist destination. Whilst Utopia had never promoted sex tourism, it was attracting gay tourists, not the healthy family tourism that Purachai wanted.

[scottish-guy]

I don't know anything about the case other than has been reported here, but on that basis alone it seems to me that some astonishing conclusions are being jumped to on the basis of "evidence" which it is accepted may have been planted.

Further it concerns me that even though it is admitted that the person being fingered(!) by the SGT Detective Agency has not been convicted of any offence nor charged with any offence in his home country (where one would hope the justice system is rather more reliable), it seems to be a case of just pronouncing him to be guilty anyway.

Cannot help but contrast the innuendo and smearing of this technically innocent Australian with the support for a certain other well-known case whereby planted evidence (in this case drugs) was found in the possession of the individual who subsequently WAS not only actually convicted, but jailed for a lengthy period. Members of this forum and others were falling over themselves to denounce the Thai police and to deny the prima facie evidence.

Is there any basis for treating these two cases differently - apart from the fact that when it comes to accusations of underage sex, it seems otherwise rational people are conspicuously unwilling to be seen to take the side of the accused?

[fountainhall]

on that basis alone it seems to me that some astonishing conclusions are being jumped to on the basis of "evidence" which it is accepted may have been planted.
I don't know much more than has been reported in various media outlets and from the appeal sent out by Utopia Tours around the time they were seeking funds for their legal defence.

I think your conclusion is perhaps not entirely correct. The materials in the Utopia Tours office in Tarntawan were certainly far from illegal, had been issued for many months if not years and were quite widely distributed. On the other hand there were clearly vdos and a substantial amount of porn found in Scobie's apartment. Judging from the statements made at the time - especially the lack of any attempt to defend Scobie in the media release issued by lawyers for his own company (is that not so unusual as to be almost unique?) - it does seems perfectly possible that these included illegal underage porn. Is there 100% proof? Not that I know of. But the circumstantial evidence is pretty convincing.

Of course there have been police set-ups in Thailand - as indeed elsewhere. Remember the Guildford Four wrongly jailed in the UK for 15 or so years for a crime they did not commit? The Utopia Tours/Spice Trade Travel case might merely have ended in a fine had Scobie not been in the mix. With his being on a Australian watch list, something I reckon the other director did not know about, it was bound to open up all sorts of doors that made the whole case much more complicated.

[scottish-guy]

Firstly, I accept this is all completely off-topic and we should be talking ad nauseam about a hotel which has (shock, horror) changed hands - so prosecute the person who dragged it here :D

With respect Founty I think both your penultimate post and the one immediately above, illustrate perfectly the point I was making - that astonishing conclusions are being drawn from what is some very dodgy "evidence" indeed:

In your previous post you said


"It was never proved these images really did come from Scobie’s apartment... But it seems certain that Scobie had at least been collecting a wide variety of pornography, some of which may have involved underage youths..."

You then draw the same astonishing conclusion in your subsequent post:


...The materials in the Utopia Tours office in Tarntawan were certainly far from illegal... there were clearly vdos and a substantial amount of porn found in Scobie's apartment....it does seems perfectly possible that these included illegal underage porn.... the circumstantial evidence is pretty convincing...


For me that line of argument is far from convincing.

The dangerous leap you appear to be making is from someone having been found with perfectly legal porn in their possession to saying that it's a "pretty convincing" argument that they also had underage porn in their possession. Well, helluva sorry, but that simply doesn't hold water - it's like saying because someone has a perfectly legal airgun in their home its "perfectly possible" that they may have an AK47 tucked away under the bed.

I would imagine that by that standard of evidence billions of people who possess legal porn ought to be expecting their doors to be kicked in by the feds at any moment!

Maybe this character did have illegal materials, maybe he didn't. If he did have them, maybe they were planted and maybe they weren't . The only certainty in this matter is that I don't know and you don't know either - and that's my very point.

I don't agree at all that the "circumstantial evidence" (at least that which you have set out on here) is "pretty convincing" and it certainly doesn't convince me. Neither did it convince the Thai justice system who ultimately threw out the case , and it didn't convince the Australian justice system who declined to prosecute as they could easily have done when the accused returned home.

You then go on to say that after the brown stuff hit the air con, a meeting of the Travel Company was held at which Mr Scobie was removed as a Director. Again, neither you nor I was present and we are unaware of what degree of rancour might have been involved in that action. A statement was then issued in which Mr Scobie was not defended by the Company and you interpret this action as further "circumstantial evidence" that he was guilty of the alleged offences. Come on, Founty - is it not equally "perfectly possible" that the Company was embarassed by the allegations and chose to toss Scobie overboard without a lifebelt? Maybe, maybe not - my point being it's unsafe to draw the conclusion you appear to have drawn.

I fully expect to be attacked on here now for even making the point that there does not appear to me to be ANY reliable evidence that this guy had the kind of material that is alleged. Might i gently suggest that's exactly why the Thai prosecution failed and the Australians did nothing?

The reason I expect to be attacked is that I observe that in cases which involve any allegations of sexual offending involving minors, the climate of opinion is now such that people are afraid to ask questions or challenge "evidence" lest they be tarred with the same brush. We are all expected to automatically throw our hands up in the air, get the pitchforks and flaming torches out and denounce the accused person as a "vile pervert". Then, if the person is cleared of the charges we are expected to say "... the bastard got away with it" or "... there's no smoke without fire"

It's surely a basic right that no matter how odious an accused person might be and what other things he may have previously done in his life, when he stands accused of a particular crime he receives the same standard of justice as anybody else.

Justice is (or ought to be) blind for a reason.

[latintopxxx]

he probably thinks elvis is still alive...

[fountainhall]

There are several issues in the Utopia Tours case which remain unclear and to some unconvincing. I have laid out the case based on what I have recently been reading (including the very long yawning bread articles which I had not seen before) and on what I recall from being here at the time and a client of Utopia Tours. I accept much of what Scottish says, but not all. As in all issues that are not cut and dried, there are bound to be several interpretations. Since I can find nothing on the internet, I have had to assume that Scobie was not found guilty of any offence in his native Australia. But, as I'm sure Scottish is aware, when someone has "previous" - or is presumed for some reasons (and in this case there were at east two) of having access to under-age materials - it is natural that more than a degree of suspicion can be attached - rightly or wrongly.

The only other comment I'll make now (as this was a long time ago) is to take issue on your comments re the media release. Sorry, Scottish, here I totally disagree - and PR and damage limitation has been part of my business for a very long time. If a company lawyer issues a statement, it must never leave any hint of doubt that any of the parties involved might be anything other than innocent. Company lawyers don't ditch one to save another - even if they themselves had serious doubts about the truth of the issues surrounding Scobie. In doing so they run the very serious risk of damaging the reputation of both the other director and the business itself - guilt by association. As I recall, this was not the lawyer for Goss - it was a lawyer retained by the company to help fight the charges against it, of which Scobie was the Managing Director. Now if he in fact had concrete proof about Scobie, it would make sense. But not if there was any doubt.

[scottish-guy]

Your statement:

"If a company lawyer issues a statement, it must never leave any hint of doubt that any of the parties involved might be anything other than innocent"

- just doesn't make sense because it totally contradicts what you said earlier:

"A company’s media release makes no attempt to defend the company’s managing director? Surely that is extraordinary if he was indeed innocent?"

You can't have it both ways Founty - the Company statement clearly not only left a "hint of doubt" despite you saying it ought never to do so, but it actually led you personally to draw an adverse conclusion regarding one of the Directors.

Perhaps they just hired a shit lawyer - or perhaps they did just throw Scobie overboard. After all we are not talking about a blue chip company are we, we're talking about a company which featured erotica in its content?

I guess we will never know the true and full circumstances and if that's the case then we ought not to draw conclusions based on some very flimsy "evidence" - that's all I'm saying and I certainly dont want to fall out about it.

:drink:

[fountainhall]

Your statement:

"If a company lawyer issues a statement, it must never leave any hint of doubt that any of the parties involved might be anything other than innocent"

- just doesn't make sense because it totally contradicts what you said earlier:

"A company’s media release makes no attempt to defend the company’s managing director? Surely that is extraordinary if he was indeed innocent?"
Oh come on. Scottish! I don't see any contradiction other than what was intended! The first statement (i.e. the second you list) makes clear I find it extraordinary the release does not defend the MD. Yes, I added "if he was innocent" but that certainly does not negate the earlier part of the comment.

The second statement (i.e your first) is more or less a clarification of the first. Any lawyer issuing a statement denying culpability (or whatever the charge was) that leaves out one of the parties allegedly involved opens a different can of worms. Whatever, the result is the same! Doubt! And a media release issued by a legal firm has at the very least to clarify issues and avoid doubt! I didn't create confusion. The lawyer's media release did!

[bkkguy]

and let us not forget the third director who, by virtue of not being in the office on the day of the initial raid, and in a sort of reverse baby and bathwater result, eventually ended up being the only one still in the country and thus was left to gather up the tattered remnants of the business into his dragon's den ...

bkkguy

[fountainhall]

Do you know if either of the other two ever returned to Thailand? Presumably Scobie was permanently banned.

[gerefan2]

Right then I Checked in this evening at the Tarntawan and this is what happened.
1. Nobody at the front door. I had to barge my 28 kg case through the front door and use my foot to hold it open while I carried on through with my cabin luggage.
2. At reception I was told to take seat while the attendant ensured the room was ready. 6 pm! I was given the usual welcome drink but it was half the size.
3. After 10 minutes the guy behind the desk gave me a bundle of papers and a key ad muttered the room number. I staggered alone to the 5th floor and sorted everything out myself. No guide t light/aircon etc.
4. The lovely bedding has all gone. No Thai silk things her, just basic sheets and blankets.
5. No spoons in the coffee making equipment.
6. No nice shampoo and conditioner bottles. All gone apart com some bland little bottles of shampoo.
7. TV awful. Of 17 channels only 7 are remotely watchable.
8. The room near the lift locked so you cannot access extra tfoilet paper.
9. All staff look very depressed even the helpful lift attendant. He docent seem to have been dismissed, lthough no sign of any other helpers at all.
I'm here for 4 days so will update as I go on! But it ain't good.

[gerefan2]

As I cannot find the edit button just let me say that I felt L was being ushered into a 500 bt an hour bonking bin rather than a 2100 bt per night hotel!

[fountainhall]

I had to barge my 28 kg case through the front door and use my foot to hold it open while I carried on through with my cabin luggage
How many condoms and lube did you bring to get that case weighing a whopping 28 kg??

[Oliver]

I have a booking for February and so the report is depressing. I had assumed, in my innocence, that the change of ownership would lead to up-dating and improvements to what has been offered- though I've never had any complaints since the hot water system was sorted -out.
Were these teething problems? new staff take time to bed-in, I suppose. But the lack of a welcome on arrival is shocking. Whenever my taxi pulled into the courtyard, one of the bell-boys would rush out, smiling, to assist with the luggage and welcome me back.
I have the feeling that those days are gone. And if that's true, so shall I.

[a447]

I was thinking about booking the Rose Hotel for my upcoming trip but decided to go with the Tarntawan. I don't care about the lack of toiletries as I bring my own. And not having the silk thing on the bed doesn't bother me, either.

But I'm not happy with the lack of welcome and the poor TV.

It would appear the overall tone of the hotel has changed for the worse.

[bobsaigon2]

For me the only draw of the Tarntawan was its consistently welcoming attitude towards all guests. A truly comfortable environment for the gay traveler. Since my first visit in 1998, I put up with what another poster called the shabbiness of the Tarntawan simply because the hotel staff were first rate and the welcoming of overnight guests was consistent. Now, if the hotel is going to continue to be shabby (pre-1998 bathroom fixtures, poor WiFi, stained carpeting and furniture tops, decor unchanged in two decades), and if there are no improvements to new staff, service, furnishings, ambiance.....why bother? Leave it to the tour groups.

[Manforallseasons]

We walked by it this evening, set back as it is it looked dark, old, dingy and most uninviting. I is difficult to understand why this thread keeps going and going? Soi twolight is now a mere shadow of itself and as you walk toward Classic Boys gets oh so quiet as oppossed to Telephone and Balcony which you are hard pressed to find a seat at. 10 PM looked in Screw Boys 15 boys 0 customers. I suggest those that are hooked on this hotel simply find another!

[gerefan2]

Soi twilight all in darkness now at 1 o'clock except the two end bars. Same last night.
Whether it's the mourning or the martial law,Thailand is self strangling itself.

[Manforallseasons]

Soi twilight all in darkness now at 1 o'clock except the two end bars. Same last night.
Whether it's the mourning or the martial law,Thailand is self strangling itself.

No surprise here as 1:00 is the closing time, at 11pm Dick's Cafe empty.

[colmx]

I was thinking about booking the Rose Hotel for my upcoming trip but decided to go with the Tarntawan.

As I posterd earlier in this thread, I'm not a fan of either, but last 2 times I stayed in the Rose the Aircon barely worked in our room.
Of course when we complained the staff just shrugged their shoulders and said they had no more available rooms - and we were offered a (tiny) fan to help with cooling

First time I could forgive, second time leads me to believe that they have either no maintenance program or have deliberately set the Aircon controls to avoid paying electrical costs

[gerefan2]

No surprise here as 1:00 is the closing time, at 11pm Dick's Cafe empty.
Yes but the bars always carried on past 1 am...not now...King or are they afraid of the Army nowadayys?
Dicks had 1 customer at midnight, me having my dinner!i
I am beginning to wonder all the posters who told me everything is back to normal. It certainly isn't in Soi Twilight

[Manforallseasons]

I am beginning to wonder all the posters who told me everything is back to normal. It certainly isn't in Soi Twilight

As I live in Thailand I have been to Soi Twilight a few times in the the last months and the soi is always very quiet with only the first 2 beer bars across from eachother doing any real business, this is the new norm however, soi 4 remains consistintly busy, as with Sunee Plaza Soi Twlight is fading.

[latintopxxx]

...why bother with soi twilight...and I say this with great sadness asI've had some great times there...but with the rise of hookup apps offering companionship at half price.....rising cost of drinks/off fees....unrealistic short time fees expectations (bars seem to think that a lack of customers can be solved by increasing prices?!?!....and pathetic erotic shows...its a mere shadow of itself...

[Patanawet]

the soi is always very quiet with only the first 2 beer bars across from each other doing any real business,

Perhaps there is a clue in the fact that these two bars charge only 120 Baht for a beer (same as Silom Soi 4).

As to 'the answer to falling custom is to increase prices' ----- TIT (This Is Thailand).

[scottish-guy]

If all the people who have viewed this thread (13K and rising) had actually *booked* a room at the Tarntawan, none of this discussion would have been necessary

:D

[fountainhall]

Since I live in BKK there's no reason I'd book into any hotel!

When I have had friends staying, I have always recommended the Swiss Lodge Boutique Hotel on Soi Convent across from Soi 4. It has now been rebranded as Le Siam Hotel. At about $60 per night for a week's stay or more including breakfast and internet, it is about the same as the Tarntawan. Cosy hotel with much nicer rooms although I suspect they're a good bit smaller, but very convenient for nightlife. Sorry I have no idea about joiners.

[Manforallseasons]

The Pinnacle and Malaysia(recently refurbished) are about a 45bht taxi ride to Soi 4. The Malaysia is largely gay, has a reasonably priced 24hr restaurant and room service, new flat screen TV's BBC, CNN, HBO etc. the staff are mostly long timers and service is quite good, they have a pool, the Sathorn area where they are located has so many restauants and is somewhat of a gay ghetto, rooms are 890bht per day.

[gerefan2]

If all the people who have viewed this thread (13K and rising) had actually *booked* a room at the Tarntawan, none of this discussion would have been necessary

:D
Did you not read my posts 136 and 137?

[neddy3]

I spent a night at the Tarntawan a week or so back.

In my room, the bathtub had been removed, the floor and wall retiled, and a glass screen installed to make a walk-in shower cubicle.
The remainder of the bathroom was unchanged.
The rest of the room appeared as usual.

A few little touches were missing: no umbrellas in the wardrobe, no pens and notepads.

At breakfast, I noticed an Indian family present.
Such families may well have been present in the past, but I had not seen them.
It just made me wonder if the clientele is changing.

The ever-friendly lift guard was present, but his duties seem to have expanded to include bell boy tasks, and even assistant waiter at breakfast.
Certainly, staffing levels have reduced.
The new front desk staff still struggle with checkout and payment.
In all, the hotel seems to be heading downscale.

[scottish-guy]

Did you not read my posts 136 and 137?


Are you kidding?

I gave up reading this thread a long time ago and only dipped back in the other day.

However I have now read the posts you refer to and kudos for staying but commiserations on your experience

:cray_mini:

[frequent]

In my room, the bathtub had been removed, the floor and wall retiled, and a glass screen installed to make a walk-in shower cubicle.

A definite improvement then

[gerefan2]

I've now left the Tarntawan after a 4 night stay.
Most things are the same. Some staff recognised me even if there was no one there to even open the door when I arrived with a heavy suitcase.
It all boils down to savings...bedding...documents (no folders in the room) staff cutbacks, multitasking, freebies gone...still looking very tired indeed. My room also had the shower only option completed but the workmanship was cheap and the shower leaked into the bathroom, and at 2 am the toilet blocked and overflowed....
The car park was empty so presumably a cut back on company cars too. Not sure where the limo has gone, but I don't use that service anyway.
Will I stay there next time....depends on cost...if that goes up then I suspect not.

[Oliver]

Any change to visitors and security arrangements?

[gerefan2]

No problems whatever Oliver , same same.

[Josan]

Gerefan, thanks for your report. I am so happy that those bathtubs are being taken out.

-no umbrellas in the wardrobe, no pens and notepads- Sorry to see these go. I have one one of the notepads here at home that I have now set aside!

[a447]

Last time I was there I didn't get any name cards. I always thought they were a waste of money for the hotel as I'm sure many customers just threw them straight into the bin, like I did. Who wants to give out cards with your real name to bar boys?

[bobsaigon2]

Right, it's been several years since they supplied name cards at check in. No problem. You could simply give bar boys your business card with full contact details. Then the boys could get in touch by phone, fax or e-mail at any time, no matter where you are. If you did not respond, they might even be able to search out the e-mail address of your director to ask him to relay their message about needing a replacement buffalo or a reminder to bring larger size condoms on your next visit to Pattaya. Or, if the boy chooses to send a fax, and your fax machine is not located next to your desk, think how eager your colleagues would be - having digested very word of the plea from your swarthy Cambodian at Jomtien - to make a donation for support of the boy, just to reward him for supplying the erotic details of your one night stand with a same-sex partner. :))

[latintopxxx]

fax...LOL

[scottish-guy]

Interesting from a447 - it has never occurred to me to give any boy a false name mostly because the need has never arisen. In fact I can only think of 2 boys who have ever asked my surname.

Makes me wonder what kind of nom-de-plume you guys come up with - if I was going to do that I'd make sure it was something fabulous like Fifi Le Bonbon

Hope I didn't just steal Francois' alias

:D

[arsenal]

Fifi Le Bonbon...a little prosaic if you don't mind me saying so Scottish. I would choose Baron Highbury of Londinium, Her Majestys' personal Pattaya attache.

[scottish-guy]

Have you thought that through?

Being a Baron would almost certainly put the price up!

:D

[Moses]

Her Majestys' personal Pattaya attache.
attachment ?

[gerefan2]

Are you kidding?

I gave up reading this thread a long time ago

:cray_mini:

whats keeping you then?

[arsenal]

Moses:
Not attachement. Attache.
In diplomacy, an attaché is a person who is assigned ("attached") to the diplomatic or administrative staff of a higher placed person or another service or agency. Although a loan from French, in English the word is not modified according to gender.

[scottish-guy]

whats keeping you then?

Bemusement

[a447]

Interesting from a447 - it has never occurred to me to give any boy a false name mostly because the need has never arisen.

Giving out my personal details to Neal taught me a valuable lesson.

[Moses]

Moses:
Not attachement. Attache.
In diplomacy, an attaché is a person who is assigned ("attached") to the diplomatic or administrative staff of a higher placed person or another service or agency. Although a loan from French, in English the word is not modified according to gender.

:) It was joke, I know meanings of both words :)

[lukylok]

To return to the OP topic :
I stayed again at the Tarntawan :
Room the same
Breakfast, the same but not 24/24
Less staff, what do you expect of a new owner who has to reduce costs
But I knew all the staff except the young receptionist, clearly inexperienced.
Same warm friendly feeling, which makes us forget the shortcomings of the plumbing.
Left early, 06.00 am, efficient cashier, the lift man doubles up as porter, the hotel limo as usual to the Airport. Same price.
Customers : one family with children, just as last year and many older gentlemen some of them with younger friends.
I have stayed 3 to 6 times a year for the last 8 years, and if there had not been all this buzz, I would hardly have noticed the change, apart from thinking that there had been a reduction of the costs i.e. staff.

[Oliver]

Thanks....and its occupancy?

[lukylok]

As much as you can judge, people have different time tables, it looked the same. Breakfast busy around 9.00 am. I have never met many people in the lobby. For me, despite the known shortcomings, it's still a very good option in Surawong/Silom.

[scottish-guy]

OMFG - How is the hand dryer in the Gent's toilet?

Is it blowing with just as much force as before or have they cut back on air velocity?

Could somebody post a pic of it please as it's causing me sleepless nights.

Also, "Hoppy" the one legged midget waiter with the lazy eye and the hare lip - is he still the same height or has he grown or shrunk?

Is he still getting ridden like a (very unsteady) pony by a short fat farang with millions of air miles?

[gerefan2]

"Hoppy" did a runner with some total weirdo from Amsterdam.They have both been barred permanently by the new management.

It was also something to do with using sex aids in the downstairs gents but they won't talk about that part of it anymore.

[scottish-guy]

Well if one-legged Hoppy did a runner he wont be hard to find - he can only go round in circles.

Meanwhile I'm still stressed out as there has been no news of the Tarntawan for 12 hours now:

Are the plants outside still being watered regularly?
Has the frequency of watering increased or decreased.
Is the reception staff doubling up as gardeners to do the watering?
Does the rose on the watering can have the same number of holes as before?

[arsenal]

Scottish: Funny stuff and breathing new life into a tired thread. However you're not quite on the money here. Will Smith when talking about Men in Black II said that what audiences want is the same movie as Men in black but different. And he's right. The same applies to the holidays we all have in Thailand. We want exactly the same holiday we had last time, but different. Therefore changes in a hotel, however ridiculous they may seem acquire a greater importance than perhaps they should. Also, it is high season and some/many of the members here will be packing their viagra and multiple medications and heading off to fuck themselves into an early grave you-know-where. So they will discuss any topic that is related to Thailand until it is many pages past it's point of interest. Geddit.

[scottish-guy]

I don't get 178 replies - an Hotel has changed hands - big fucking deal.

Either go and see how it is now or go elsewhere - it's kinda simple really.

[arsenal]

Scottish wrote:
"I don't get 178 replies - an Hotel has changed hands - big fucking deal."
Lots of people stay there I guess. It's 181 now.

[a447]

Arsenal, you've hit the nail on the head.

I've stayed a number of times at the Tarntawan and I want it to be exactly the same when I check in again tomorrow. I don't want to have to get acquainted with new staff, new ways of doing things,etc.

It's my base when I'm in Bangkok and I don't want any surprises.

[scottish-guy]

Clearly we have different expectations of a hotel - for me its a place to sleep, shag, and eat breakfast.

I require it to be centrally located, clean, free of cockroaches, all the lights working (a pet peeve), and to welcome joiners with minimum hassle

I really have no need to be on first name terms with the staff as I come and go - they're actually not my friends and I'm not theirs. If I dropped dead tomorrow and never returned they wouldn't notice.

But each to his own I guess.

I look forward to when the replies reach 500

Enjoy

:D

[arsenal]

Well Scottish, in November the hotel manager where I stay in Pattaya described his hotel as my second home and I liked his comment a lot because it is but each to his own.

[Oliver]

It took a number of visits and stays at various hotels before I settled on Tarntawan and Ambiance. I feel at home there; the staff know me and I know them. And for the last fourteen years, my boyfriend has been with me and he feels the same .Is there anything surprising in wanting to continue?
The same goes for our choice in Chiang Mai; we stayed at five or six places before finding the one that suits us. I don't wish to experiment. This seems reasonable to me.
At the same time, we were reasonably happy with our choice in Bali three years ago but decided a change may be better in June this year. We were wrong. The holiday wasn't ruined but we were disappointed and wished we hadn't changed.

[Smiles]

Certainly NOT a good day for hotel cockroaches. What do you have against them anyway?

---------------------------------------
Signed,

Green Piece

[latintopxxx]

...i actually enjoy trying new hotels...makes the experience kinda new again...same city but different location...I certainly do not see the staff as friends...or the hotel as some sort of 2nd home...how silly.

[arsenal]

Smiles mentions cockroaches and Sexual Deviant Latin responds immediately. Irony.

[a447]

Well, I've just checked in and nothing's changed as far as I can see. I was given a very nice welcome when I walked into the lobby. The chubby guy came rushing over and took my luggage and I got a waifrom the short guy with the crew cut and the ear to ear grin.

Only difference is that Lukas has gone and breakfast and bar times have changed, but none of those things affect me. Oh, and the internet is crap. That does affect me.

BTW, I was charged 200 baht to use the Siam Commercial Bank atm at the airport!

[francois]

BTW, I was charged 200 baht to use the Siam Commercial Bank atm at the airport!


All the ATMS charge 200 Baht/withdrawal transaction. Has been that way for a couple of years.

[a447]

Not in Pattaya. On my last trip I'm sure I only paid 180. Before that it was 150.

[arsenal]

Get a Unionpay card. You only get charged 100 baht. In fact if you travel in Asia a lot it would be very useful to have. 192 now Scottish. Ooohhh. I can feel your fury from here. Haha.

[francois]

Not in Pattaya. On my last trip I'm sure I only paid 180. Before that it was 150.

Now 200 Baht in Pattaya for some time. Keeps going up and up. Once upon a time withdrawals were free in the good olde days.

[Smiles]

Aeon still charges only 180 baht (wowo!). There are only two Aeon ATM's in Hua Hin and every time I try and use one there's a line of farangs 20 deep, only a few of whom know how to withdraw (or any transaction for that matter) money from the damn thing. Like deers in headlights these poor old dudes, and esses.
So, rolling of eyes, I go to the nearest ATM-not-an-Aeon and never having to wait: down 20 baht! (wowo!)

[scottish-guy]

..192 now Scottish. Ooohhh. I can feel your fury from here. Haha.

On the one hand we have veered off from:

"OMFG I hear the toilet paper in The Tarntawan is now only 2 ply instead of 3 ply - please can someone go in for a dump and verify this"

But we have now either sunk or raised the bar to:

"OMFG I'm being asked to pay an extra 20B/50p/60c to withdraw cash at my local ATM.
Please tell me where can I travel a mile to and get a bit more melanoma standing in a queue in direct sunlight for 30 mins while a bunch of old coffin dodgers smelling of pish stand at the AEON ATM trying to remember their PIN numbers"

Progress indeed

[arsenal]

196 and counting. Of course a fair few of those have come from Scottish himself complaining about the length of the thread. I've never stayed at the hotel in question. What's it like?

[scottish-guy]

Stop stirring the pot Arsenal

:D

[arsenal]

I'm not stirring Scottish I am genuinely interested. One of the internet sites (I can't remember which one) was awash with rumours that the softener used in the sheets had been changed from Forest Pine to Norwegian Pine. Can anyone confirm this? Come on, lets go for a double century.

[a447]

Well, you are half correct, arsenal. Allow me to confirm that the softener used is, in fact, Norwegian Forest Pine.

And I can also confirm that the sheets are still not cum-resistent. More on that in another thread.

[francois]

This is almost as good as the poo thread on Gaybutton but does not compare to the Model Photoshots on Gaythailand stared by Fountainhall three years ago. At least those threads were of some interest .

[Old git]

Yes, you get ripped off royally if you use foreign cards in ATMs - so why don't regular visitors get themselves a Thai bank account? - use a specialist outfit to transfer funds over at much better rates and then NO withdrawal fees - simples..

And who's worrying about the thickness of the bog paper? Those toilet hoses may make you jump the first time you use one, but they do a much better job - I've even got one installed in my UK home now..

[Nirish guy]

"I've even got one installed in my UK home now.."

Likewise and whilst I get enough use out of it to make it worthwhile my Asian other half just LOVES it and is permanently grateful it's here for his use.

I would add though that if anyone is considering installing one ( here in the UK at least) to ensure they get a thermostatic inline valve fitted at the time of installation to ensure the regulation of the (hot) water otherwise there's a very real chance you'll burn the ass off yourself !!

This is as the water in the "cold"'pipes in Asia is generally warm(ish) anyway the plumbers take their feed from the cold pile there, whereas to do so in the UK etc would I'm guessing result in a very cold / frozen bum very quickly, hence the feed here usually being taken from the hot supply, hence the need for a regulator to avoid ( totally genuine ) and possibly severe scalding of one's ass !

[bobsaigon2]

My dwindling regard for the Tarntawan: 20 years ago when I paid my first visit, I thought it was the greatest place on earth. Reasonably good circa 3 star hotel which actually welcomed my new friends with a smile. That estimation continued for about 10 years, while I was still very active. Who notices the shortcomings of interior decor or fittings when sharing the bed with a go-go boy. Eventually, old age and declining health limited my activities. I no longer brought boys back to the room, choosing instead to go over to Soi Twilight for a massage every evening. Which meant that I was spending far too much time alone in the room, time to wonder about the thickness of the bog paper (Not), but certainly time to reflect on the early days when I was never alone, and when everything was the dilapidated same as it is today. But I'm not complaining. Still have some great memories of what went on in my Tarntawan rooms.

[fountainhall]

I've even got one installed in my UK home now..
Not sure if they are available. but for those with enough cash, why not install one of those Japanese technological marvels that ensure you have a warm seat in cold weather, a pipe that extends out at the press of various buttons and produces streams of cold or warm water for cleansing and then lovely warm air for drying one's ass?

[arsenal]

Japanese loos are probably the best in the world..

[scottish-guy]

Why not just borrow one of LatintopXXX's "cheap arse" young slaves who will no doubt suck the shit out your arse, clean it with his tongue, and puff on it till it's dry

All for $10, with change back

:aggressive:

[Old git]

My UK hose is plumbed into the rising main cold supply to maximise pressure. The water in the hose warms up to room temperature so it doesn't feel uncomfortably cold - if you have it plumbed into the hot supply it would take several seconds to warm up, by which time, job done..

[Nirish guy]

"it would take several seconds to warm up.....|

Indeed quite the opposite sometimes, asap it's plumbed into the hot pipe ( and assuming the heating is on of course which it usually is or just has been if I'm in the house anyway) then the water coming from the gun is instantly warm too - and in fact too much too usually and would actually burn you, hence the need for the regulator as mentioned above, which then gives you the choice of temperature with which to power wash one 's bottie - which is handy as it seems I prefer lukewarm whereas my bf prefers the industrial strength remove skin setting - or maybe that's what he just leaves it set for me at everytime he leaves it when we've had a row perhaps !! :)

[a447]

I had some Japanese toilets installed and ever since I've never looked back - or down, for that matter.

I also have bum hoses as the bidet is no good for a bottom.

[Nirish guy]

"I also have bum hoses"

I really hoping that you're just referring to your perhaps having several bum guns fitted in DIFFERENT toilets around the home rather than due to the amount and extreme level of bottoming that you're putting your poor ass through these days that you felt the need to get multiple guns fitted in the SAME toilet just to handle the heavy workload ! :-)

[a447]

No, no. They are installed in different toilets!

It's hilarious when new friends stay over for the first time because I don't warn them about the toilets. I get lots of "WTF? I pushed a button and it squirted water up my arse!" or 'What's the matter? Can't afford toilet paper?". Lol

I just tell them that toilet paper and cold toilet seats are so yesterday.

[bkkguy]

And I can also confirm that the sheets are still not cum-resistent. More on that in another thread.

the discussion seem to have shot off thread again so just to get us back on topic - does anyone know the thread count of the sheets?

bkkguy

[a447]

My guess would be about 50, considering the fact that cum quickly soaks through to the mattress.

BTW, I got some info straight from the horse's mouth. Apparently, the staff were allowed to stay on after the change of ownership provided they took a pay cut. No wonder everyone looks so glum.

Oh, and the clientele has changed a little. Whereas before it was just crusty old farang with their boys du jour, today I saw a large group of guys and their wives having drinks in the downstairs dining area.

Also, in the past we had to sign an agreement regarding bringing guys back, but this time I didn't have to sign anything.

[neddy3]

Oh, and the clientele has changed a little. Whereas before it was just crusty old farang with their boys du jour, today I saw a large group of guys and their wives having drinks in the downstairs dining area.

Also, in the past we had to sign an agreement regarding bringing guys back, but this time I didn't have to sign anything.

Yes, the clientele has changed. I saw an Indian family at breakfast, which stood out when one was expecting to see crusty old falangs!

And the signed agreement does seem to be discontinued.

[scottish-guy]

... does anyone know the thread count of the sheets?

OK I give up - this topic is now beyond parody

[a447]

One thing is for sure - news travels quickly in the nearby gay ghetto.

Every time I tell guys in the bars I'm staying at the Tarntawan, I get the same response.

- Oh, Tarntawan have new owner. Now no good. Not happy.

[Nirish guy]

OK I give up - this topic is now beyond parody

I'm guessing ( well hoping?!) that parody was in fact what you were actually reading there in the first place SG !? :/)

I DO however want to know are the Two Chocolate bars still provided in the fridge in each room ( and can someone remind me of the brand name of it as I "genuinely" want to order some online !). Once they stop the chocolate, that's it, I'm out of there. A low thread count is one thing but no chocolate is a bridge to far, you can only push a man so far without expecting him to crack and no free chocolate is my line in the sand !! :-)

[scottish-guy]

I guessed the same - but you know us queens have to exaggerate everything

[arsenal]

Scottish wrote:
"OK I give up - this topic is now beyond parody."

Well I am still awaiting the information I requested regarding the colour of the shower caps and judging from the many many pms I have received on this subject so are plenty of others.

[Nirish guy]

Scottish wrote:
"OK I give up - this topic is now beyond parody."

Well I am still awaiting the information I requested regarding the colour of the shower caps and judging from the many many pms I have received on this subject so are plenty of others.


Exactly ! The quality of insider information supplied by board members is getting really poor now, I mean how are we to cope with major hotel room purchasing decisions without knowing about thread counts, two or three ply toilet paper, chocolate ( or not) in the rooms AND now not knowing the colour of the shower caps ! I mean it's just outrageous ! If Neal was still here he'd have dispatched one of his many private investigators he kept on constant retainer to find out these details on behalf of the members, Surfcrest and Moses on the other hand just don't seem to CARE ! A true sign of times gentlemen a sign of the times !

Perhaps we should email the new management and ask for a detailed reply to a pre agreed list of questions ( should we start a poll as to which are THE most important questions to ask and in which order they should be listed.....I'm thinking around 30 to 40 questions in all should cover it ?) Personally I'm voting for the Chocolate query to be placed top of the list, but I do understand that others may have more pressing issues to raise, such as will the small note pads beside the phone be reinstated or are they gone for good now and will the nice square shaped pens now be being replaced with lower cost round biro models etc etc ? These and many more are the questions that NEED answered and are the ones which are so OBVIOUSLY keeping us all awake at night ! It's just outRAGEOUS !

[arsenal]

I don't like the idea of a poll NIrish. Chocolates will clearly start with an unfair advantage over the obviously more important shower cap issue because so many members are follically challenged. IE: As bald as a monkeys' arse.

[a447]

I'm pleased to inform you that the chocolate bars are still here. They are Van Houten and are definitely not free.

And yes, the note paper is still here and the pen is still square -shaped.

The shower caps have disappeared. Had I known that I'd have booked elsewhere.

[Nirish guy]

. the chocolate bars are still here. They are Van Houten and are definitely not free

The bastards ! And there's me happily chomping away on them for years now thinking how good it was of them to provide same and they were charging for them all along !! Ha OPPS as I'm now then currently thinking of the number times when passing the unattended housekeeping room at the lift and after already exhausting my room supply that I nipped in for a quick multiple "restock" !! OPPS, it appears I may well be the reason why their profits plunged so much in recent years !! Oh well, what I made from stolen chocolate they more than made up from me in never attended breakfasts or Christmas dinners !! All's fair in love and war it seems ! :-)

[frequent]

One thing is for sure - news travels quickly in the nearby gay ghetto.

Yes, what's it been now? Only a few short months. News sure does travel fast over a distance of less than a mile these days. I blame the Interweb.

[a447]

Kommentariat, sometimes you are so eager to score a point that you do not take enough time to adequately process others comments.

What I was saying is that I had just reached the soi two days ago, not the news of the changes at the hotel. The guys were relating news they'd heard earlier.

Do try to keep up.

Lol

[a447]

Today I bade a food farewell to the Tarntawan and am now esconsed in my hotel in Pattaya.

So a final word on the Tarntawan - basically, nothing has changed at all. Well, nothing that directly affects me. (Apart from the blackout this morning.)

The only difference is the smiles have disappeared from the faces of the staff, a situation easily remedied, albeit temporarily, by a decent tip.

[Oliver]

I'm unable to find the hotel's new email address....I have heard that it has been changed. Can anyone assist?.

[Maxxy]

I'm unable to find the hotel's new email address....I have heard that it has been changed. Can anyone assist?.

Their new website may help http://www.tarntawansurawong.com/ info@tarntawansurawong.com

[Oliver]

Thanks.

[Josan]

Yes, thanks!

[Josan]

Maxxy, that email does not seem to work.. "timed out'!

[Mancs]

I think it's time for a different hotel. Malaysia, for example. No chocolate in the fridge but not too many str8s at breakfast.

[Blueskytoday]

One would think this is enough for this thread...all has been said and answered..more on folks lol

[Maxxy]

Maxxy, that email does not seem to work.. "timed out'!

That's the one from their website. If you look on their website they also have the online contact form you can use,that one should work

[ggobob]

Sidebar to this...Lukas has the Tarntawan apartments up and running. Few photos on the website, but reasonable prices, Lukas replied within a few hours of my inquiring about a booking in late January

[Oliver]

I had no luck with the websites, the contact form and the email addresses and so, wishing to confirm a reservation made months ago, I phoned.

[arsenal]

I cannot understand why anyone would want to stay in a gay ghetto like this hotel. I've had breakfast occasionally in some of the gay hotels in Pattaya and the morning conversation is enough to stop the sausages sizzling.

"Well Nit was there and of course Nit doesn't like Pom but then again Lik doesn't like Nit and incidentally Nit and Pom both were annoyed with Boom because he'd told Tok that blah blah blah.

[a447]

I cannot understand why anyone would want to stay in a gay ghetto like this hotel.

If I had a choice there is no way ii would stay there, or any other "gay" hotel, apart from the Ambiance, perhaps.

A nice hotel is part of the holiday experience, plus I want the comforts of home.

But I refuse to put myself or my boy in the uncomfortable situation sharing the lift with mum, dad and the 1.5 kids. I also want to protect us from the silly stares from people around the pool. I've seen that a couple of times over the years in Bali and I felt sorry for the boys. They looked decidedly uncomfortable.

[arsenal]

Fair points A447. I'm not taking them to the pool although if I did we'd probably be there alone as most of the time it's just me and a dragon fly. Not sure if it's always the same one. The lift never feels any more uncomfortable than it usually does with strangers. I find that the whole thing is a little odd whether it's me with a boy or them with a girl so in that respect it's not worth bothering about. It's not a huge hotel where I stay and so the lift is usually free anyway.

[scottish-guy]

.. I refuse to put myself or my boy in the uncomfortable situation sharing the lift with mum, dad and the 1.5 kids. I also want to protect us from the silly stares from people around the pool...

I've often found that any stares from str8 people are preferable to the drooling, leering, nudging, winking, and flaunting of room key fobs by predatory elderly homosexual guests in "gay" hotels.

Then again I am fucking stunning so I guess its only to be expected.

[Josan]

-"I had no luck with the websites, the contact form and the email addresses and so, wishing to confirm a reservation made months ago, I phoned."

The correct email for Tarntawan Surawong Hotel is: rsvn@tarntawansurawong.com

Lukas' apartments is: tarntawan@tarntawan.com


.

[Manforallseasons]

Never has so much been said about so little by so many!