Let This be a lesson to us all?

a ton of Spanish boys waiting for me, the adventure continues.

Spanish boys ? Humm, your drama continues !

[bucknaway]

If I were Thai and reading this, I would wonder who the heck these foreigners think they are... But at any rate. There was nothing in it for the guys... They had many things but when nothing is earned it is not valued.

Your friend thinks he did all this for them but he did it all for himself. He wanted a house full of boys... the names and faces of the boys did not matter as long as they fit his fantasy.

This situation was good for the Farang but is so sad for the guys....

There was a song called Street Life... When I think of the guys in Thailand, this song comes to mind.



I play the street life
Because there's no place I can go
Street life
It's the only life I know
Street life
And there's a thousand cards to play
Street life
Until you play your life away

You let the people see, just who you wanna be
And every night you shine, just like a super star
That`s how the life is played a ten cent masquerade
You dress, you walk, you talk
You`re who you think you are

Street life
You can run away from time
Street life
For a nickel, for a dime
Street life
But you better not get old
Street life
Or you're gonna feel the cold

There's always love for sale
A grown up fairy tale
Prince charming always smiles
Behind a silver spoon
And if you keep it young
Your song is always sung
Your love will pay your way beneath the silver moon

[Smiles]

Why on earth copy & paste this story when a direct link to the original post on Gaythailand.com message board would suffice ( http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index ... wtopic=151 (http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=151) ).

And doing a double duty public service .... having folks click on it would:

(1) Relieve the Members here of listening to your own little self-serving blurbs:
(" ... I had 3 e-mails in my inbox the morning after the breakup. One was from LetMeTellU. He had heard portions of the story and wanted clarification before he started to discuss things with others. I respect that LMTU waited for me to post my story ... " )

(2) give the (poor!) Members here the chance to skip by you telling the story (incoherently), and then pasting the very same story.

But, carry on ... (as you will).

Cheers ...

if nothing is earned it is not valuedSomewhat like free advice? :bounce:

DELETED

[Davey612]

I don't really get what he was trying to do. Be the big boss? Be their dad?

What happened to the guy who was not taking yabba? Was he also thrown out as a disregarded toy? Oh yes, they were just his toys or pets. If they misbehaved, off to the pet pound.

I believe some Westerners who go to third world countries are carrying a superiority complex to the extreme. They think that because they are the money providers, they can dictate the behaviours of others. Is it me or does the whole story sounds like of a disappointed schoolmaster or circus trainer?

[GayThailand]

John,
Thanks for the kind response. I have seen you many times in Pattaya. You seem to be so happy and cheerful. Perhaps you can tell me the secret to that charming smile of yours?

Buckaway,
You are so far off base that I won't respond. Well, OK, I was living my fantasy. But, as for most of your statements, I guess the best response is

Davey,
I don't feel superior to anyone! I come from a very similar background as most of these guys. I just realized that education was my key to the door to a better life. That is why I place such high value on school and learning. But, I have never felt superior to any guy in Thailand.

Baziel,
Spanish guys are hot!

Seriously, these guys were not bad to the bone. They were good guys who went astray. It happens. It happens in NYC, Barcelona, Paris and Pattaya. It is all the same. Younger guys like to experiment with things. When I was their age, I loved to smoke cigarettes and occasionally a little grass. OMG you say. That is nothing compared to this! Well, actually it is. In the deep of the Bible belt, those things were very taboo and forbidden. Yet, I remember how exciting it was to sneak behind the field house and take a puff. I also remember how exciting it was in college to be able to smoke, drink and be merry. It is part of life and part of growing up. I donтАЩt think anyone has developed fully their mind until they are well in their late 20тАЩs. My mother once said to do everything she said and my life would be easy. Looking back, she was right EVERY time. But, being young, I had to experience the mistakes myself. That is part of growing up and becoming the person you turn out to be.

I donтАЩt know what makes someone do drugs. I have never done anything other than weed. I have never even been drunk. It is not my thing. I know many who do this daily and they are not in there 20тАЩs. They are in there 50тАЩs and 60тАЩs.

Anyone in Pattaya is there for the good time. If you deny this, you are lying. If you are there for the culture, you are seriously in need of mental help. If you are there for the fine wine and restaurants, there are much better places. If you are there for the beaches, go south young man. But, if you are there for the party, you are in the right place. That is not only meant for the boys but for the farangs. Pattaya is party central. If you are not a part of the party, you must be dazed and confused. We all just like to party in different ways. My idea of a party is a group of guys drinking and swimming and having a BBQ. To me, that is wonderful. To many, it is boring! I canтАЩt dictate how John Botting should party or how LMTU should party or anyone else. However, when someone is living with me and I am financially committed to them, I can dictate that. And, I do. When it doesnтАЩt work, it is over and I move on.

I am not one of those farangs who go around town with a sourpuss look bitching and griping and gossiping. I am in Pattaya to have fun and a good time. I have had over 600 wonderful nights there in the last few years. A few bad ones? Not many. I think pretty good numbers.

My guys were good guys. I will still be their friend. Yes, I felt betrayed. Yes, I was hurt. I have been in the past and I will be in the future. I also strongly believe that once someone has a place in your heart that there is always a place there for them somewhere in your life. It is often not as large of a place but if you canтАЩt care for them at all in the future, perhaps you didnтАЩt care as much for them as you though. I cared for these guys. I will be friendly with them. I am not angry with them. They made their choice and I made mine. They are better off as they are on their road to happiness and I am better off as I am on mine. I am not angry with anyone on a message board who doesnтАЩt have a heart either. That is part of life.

I am on to the party in Barcelona. Enjoy the party in Pattaya! Or, whereever you are! ;)

PS. I don't get into tit for tat discussions. This is my only response to this thread. If you want to know more or want to prompt a response from me, buy me a drink in Pattaya. I am short on guys to have a drink with on my next trip. :)

[bedbugy1-old]

i had a great time up and down the ramblers great place out of town tosa de mar wow grat boys

[DeHaro-old]

To understand more about some insensible behaviour of some Thai boys I recently bought the book "Culture shock Thailand", which made many things clearer to me.

I remember visiting the family of my ex-bf in Isaan. He hadn┬┤t seen his Mom for over one year ! When he came to her house he walked in, said HI ! and sat on the floor. That was all of his emotions after such a long time to his mother !

How can she expect more? He was sent to Bangkok to work in a factory at the age of 12 and left alone for over 4 years there. His friends became his family.

The books makes it very clear, as warmhearted as they are brought up, as coldhearted are they pushed into business when its time to make money for the family.

I've only had one experience with a num on ya-ba. He was a manic motormouth for about two hours than crashed and was unmovable as a rock...scared the living spit out of me! For I time, I thought he was dead.

Art as life? The song that came to my mind, Bucky, was an old one:
Where Did Everyone Go? (Nat Cole)
"....because he was mine, he'd glitter and shine--
And life was a ball and wasn't it all so rosy and fine.
But nothing lasts forever and the deepest wells run dry,
just `cause I'm not rolling sevens doesn't mean I have to cry.
I'll take that nightcap, one more won't show--
And incidentally,
maybe you know:
where,
oh where,
oh where
did everyone go?"

I see it as a survivors anthem--But I'm an optometrist. (lol)

In his book, Freedom From Exile, the Dalai Lama says, although he was happiest in his own country, a person can be at complete peace, regardless where he is--If he chooses to be.

I think having 5 live-in lovers may sound like a fantasy come true but did he really think it would end in any other way ?

Do people really think Hugh Heffner has all his bunnies every night..no way..it's all fantasy.

The best thing is that as J.Botting says..Michael isn't looking for sympathy and is moving on

(nb : Sorry about not keeping that arrangement John B. but I was caught up ina whirlwind of activity and most of it was LMTU's fault !).

This yabba business realy is overblown as well..it's only speed which is admittedly one of the worst drugs as it tends to do one's head in but Michael was possibly aiding by financially supporting the guy ..maybe he should have packed the boy off to the Monks who have a good method of sorting yabba dabbers out.

Smiles: you are being very snappy these days !!..time for your holiday in LOS !!

[TrongpaiExpat]

Michael: Sorry for your misfortune and thank you for sharing. These stories are a good learning experience for all of us. I will not offer one negative comment to you under these circumstances. Choke dee


I remember visiting the family of my ex-bf in Isaan. He hadnดt seen his Mom for over one year ! When he came to her house he walked in, said HI ! and sat on the floor. That was all of his emotions after such a long time to his mother !

That the Isaan way. Hugging, group hugs, kissing on the cheek and air kissing are western ways of greeting. The Isaan way is to sit on the floor and eat som tam and sticky rice and not say a whole lot at first then share the food and then talk. Getting drunk seems to fall in there somewhere, not sure where.

[Aunty]

Well I'm sorry but like many of the posters here I don't have a lot of sympathy. When you think about it, what sort of quality young man are you going to attract, and who's prepared to live very publicly, in a farang's homosexual harem? Not very bloody many. And most sadly from my perspective these boys don't even have the chance of a one-on-one relationship with their farang, and are therefore deprived of even the smallest of status that comes from being THE boy-SPECIAL. I feel really sad for these boys and how they have been treated, as from what I can see, as little more than pets and a play things. No wonder they turned to drugs to cope with the dishonour and pain of their living arrangements. I'm sorry to have to say it, but that's how I see it. These boys were vulnerable for drug taking from the moment they walked into that house.

Young men with self-respect, self-esteem, self-worth - standards and morals - just simply won't live like that, and these are some of the very qualities one must have in order to not have a need for drugs. Boys who are prepared to live like that are likely to be those who don't enjoy healthy levels of self-worth and self-respect, who don't feel good about themselves and their futures, who don't see much value in themselves or their lives or, that they have any value to others.

Where was the honouring that these boys needed to feel good about themselves, to feel appreciated, to feel needed, to feel special. These most valuable of things don't come from money, from the baubles and cheap trinkets showered on the boys, they come from the heart. They come from the way the boy is looked at, the way he's spoken to. The way he's treated with words and deeds. It comes from love, something which the original poster in his own words admits he did not have for his boys, and they'll know that! And it sure as hell doesn't come when you're just one of the toys in the basket, little more than a trophy fashion accessory to impress the LMTU's of this world.

From what I've read that's what the boys were, just toys. Not young men with a need and a right to be loved. It seems to me that the author of the story, as soon as 'his boys' turned out to be fully human, flawed and with needs, took off. Wow, that's some mentor! Why didn't you hang around dude and try to help them out? What might this be telling us about you?

[dave_tf-old]

Thank you, Aunty, you've saved me a lot of typing. I can't wait to ignore the sequal.

Anyone in Pattaya is there for the good time. If you deny this, you are lying. I never cease to be amazed by people so focused on their own reality that they deny the existence of others' perspectives, outlooks and beliefs. I am not living in Jomtien "for the good time" and I am not "lying".

I decided to retire to a country with favorable climate that was well within my retirement budget, a country with such bonuses as wonderful people, great food, good medical care, and a deep-rooted religion and culture. I prefer city living, but Bangkok pollution and noise got to be too much. So, after five years there, I moved a little south and east.

In the 1.5 years that I've lived in Jomtien, I've been to the go-go bars ONE night. I have never been to any establishment in Sunnee. The only place I've been to in that general area is Niddy's Nook (and Friendship Market & the geek shops on the upper floors of Tukcom Center). I eat frequently in the Jomtien Complex area, but other than a stop in Exxit one night (I hadn't realized it was a rent-boy place), have never been to a pub, bar or massage place in Jomtien Complex, either.

It is not accurate, nor considerate, to color all of us with one's own blinders-on paint brush. Its our individuality and differences that keep things interesting.

And, for the record, though I'm not Bald (yet), I am a fat, old (51), (gay) cunt. :-)

I find this thread interesting because Mike (GayThailand) went to Pattaya for the very reason most of us go there. His description hits the bulls eye:

Anyone in Pattaya is there for the good time. If you deny this, you are lying. If you are there for the culture, you are seriously in need of mental help. If you are there for the fine wine and restaurants, there are much better places. If you are there for the beaches, go south young man. But, if you are there for the party, you are in the right place. That is not only meant for the boys but for the farangs. Pattaya is party central. If you are not a part of the party, you must be dazed and confused. We all just like to party in different waysтАжтАж

Conversely the holier than thou responses posted by regular board members and summed up, I think, best by Aunty reek of jealousy and hypocrisy:

Well I'm sorry but like many of the posters here I don't have a lot of sympathy. When you think about it, what sort of quality young man are you going to attract, and who's prepared to live very publicly, in a farang's homosexual harem? Not very bloody many. And most sadly from my perspective these boys don't even have the chance of a one-on-one relationship with their farang, and are therefore deprived of even the smallest of status that comes from being THE boy-SPECIAL. I feel really sad for these boys and how they have been treated, as from what I can see, as little more than pets and a play things.

How many critics of Mike have a genuine one on one relationship with a man young enough to be their son or grandson? How many of them have strayed from their treasured relationship to the saunas or sordid short time rooms with an off while their тАШboy-specialтАЩ was elsewhere? And how many of you really believe that the boys donтАЩt do the same with other Thais or (heaven forbid) with their girl friends.
As for the behavior of the boys тАУ they are there for the money; some forced by their families but most do it voluntarily. They know they are тАШpets and a play thingsтАЩ and they knew the simple rules that Mike laid down. They broke the rules and now the piggy-bank is broken.

Well done Mike for doing what you want to do with your money. Good luck to you in the future.
And good luck to the boys - you'll need it because you are not getting any younger or any more handsome. The competition is fierce in your industry.
If, IF in the future you get another farang as generous as Mike maybe next time you won't piss it down the drain?

[Davey612]

Mike did not answer why he also threw away (by his own admission) the guy who did follow his rules.

But that is not the point in my own opinion. The point is the holier than you foreigner (I have money and I will set the rule) who is going around foreign countries trying to buy obedience. Kind of reminds me of the U.S.' own foreign policy (no wonder).

If this is not a modern version of servitude, then I don't know what it is. Why don't just forget all this friendship stuff and just call them employees?

Going to Spain and set the same kind of system? Hum, yeah, possible. Pero mi estimado Mike. Un aviso. Vas a necesitar mucho mucho mas dinero. Y no, ellos no son tan obedientes como los Tailandeses. Muy buena suerte en tus viajes.

DELETED

In the 1.5 years that I've lived in JomtienAnd you call yourself "bkk gwm" to disguise the fact you live in Pattaya? I don't blame you, it's just too too shame-making to admit that you live there

I thought the title of this post was a little too much - the majority, if not all actually, of people would'nt ever do this and are quite happy with going to Thailand and having flings with the locals, so with regard to it being a lesson, I think LMTU was just having a little gossip with us all.

[Dboy]

Maybe I read GT's post differently, but I didn't see him asking for anyones sympathy. I don't know GT, but he seems to me like an adventurous guy living the life he wants to lead. Good for him. And I seriously doubt his boys "turned to drugs due to the living arrangements". These moneyboys live 12 to a room, in 4000bt a month crap holes. Sounds to me like the boys had a nice ride while it lasted, and I'll bet that's exactly how they perceived it. Pattaya is a FANTASY. Pattaya is THE MATRIX. It is definitely not reality. If you're looking for love, I seriously doubt there's any to be found in Pattaya. But if you want to live a fantasy, then there's no place like Pattaya. Good for you GT.

Now I wanna hear about Barcelona boys:-)


Dboy

for at least living out his fantasy and enjoying it while he could.

As for thanks from those that are being paid, I must report that as a former "paid" friend ( around the Depression era) once it looked like the money tap was about to be turned off, I myself turned to fresher fields without nothing more than a smile and brief goodbye wave with dark thoughts that the final payoff was no-where near what I perceived equalled my value. It is in the nature of man.

In those days of course all this largesse led to me to overdose on pink gin..who knows , today I may have become a yabba dabba as well !

Yes, full reports on Barcelona or wherever else your fantasy life leads you to. Plenty of us are still willing to live out our fantasies and I haven't furfilled all mine yet.

As for thanks from those that are being paid, I must report that as a former "paid" friend ( around the Depression era) once it looked like the money tap was about to be turned off, I myself turned to fresher fields without nothing more than a smile and brief goodbye wave with dark thoughts that the final payoff was no-where near what I perceived equalled my value.

Which depression was that? The one after the three-hundred-years-war, or when the Romans left?

"....no-where near what I perceived equalled my value..."
Someone gave her a ┬г-note once; she said, "You bloody blighter, you know I don't have change!"

it was the deep depression I feel into when I heard you were coming for dinner !!

Surprisingly enough, now that all my teeth have been removed I've become highly popular again as a 'smoker" ! ( just bring your own paper bag)

Pero mi estimado Mike. Un aviso. Vas a necesitar mucho mucho mas dinero. Y no, ellos no son tan obedientes como los Tailandeses. Muy buena suerte en tus viajes.

Is this Chinese? I don't read Chinese.

it was the deep depression I feel into when I heard you were coming for dinner !!

Surprisingly enough, now that all my teeth have been removed I've become highly popular again as a 'smoker" ! ( just bring your own paper bag)

Yes, I know how you hate to exhale near a flame. Please get a proper fire extinguisher; don't throw flour on it like you did the last time or try to smother the fire, again, by sitting on it! All & need is a hot pussy on my hands!

How do you sa-moke, with your head in a bag, without giving paper cuts?
Why don't you try one of those cunning plastic bags?

(Joking. LOL.)





Pero mi estimado Mike. Un aviso. Vas a necesitar mucho mucho mas dinero. Y no, ellos no son tan obedientes como los Tailandeses. Muy buena suerte en tus viajes.
Is this Chinese? I don't read Chinese.

Yes. It's Mexican-Chinese. Many ethnic Chinese people live in Mexico, especially around Guadalajara. They are easily assimilated: the taco is just a variation of wonton as there are many Latin variations on egg rolls & dim sum, fajitas\chow mein...on & on.

(I love that word, 'tailandeses!')