12 Years in Pattaya by Undaunted

[arsenal]

I am usually wary of posting any reference to Gaybuttons' site because a few twats on this board rear up like rabid mongrels and start slavering at the mouth. However, after a self imposed exile from both boards Undaunted has started a thread there with the above title. And it is awesome. Totally worth reading. But please keep any issues you might have with the site or any persons associated with it to yourself.

[francois]

Agree with you arsenal, well worth reading and interesting. Unfortunately some troll did his best to derail undaunted's post but GB got it back on track again.

[dab69]

too bad no link...

[Surfcrest]

http://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7923&sid=552b9c13b5416d1dd1a1ae74f04d4ef3

12 Years in Pattaya..Then and Now...part 1 (http://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7923)

[Oliver]

I'm pleased to see that I'm not alone in enjoying reading about gay life in Thailand in the past. A few months ago, I was sitting in Panorama, enjoying my early evening Singha, trying to recall the bars and other venues that were in Boyztown twenty and ten years ago....I'd welcome more contributions from those who were around in the early 90s if only to remind me how good it was then!

[TaoR]

Lets see, in the mid 80's Pattaya was considered run down and dirty. There was no gay scene in Chaing Mai nor in Phuket. It was either Bangkok or Pattaya. So, what you have seen in the course of 30 years is the centralized growth in a few gay meccas in the 90's and now the decentralization of that growth.

[scottish-guy]

I'd welcome more contributions from those who were around in the early 90s if only to remind me how good it was then!

Didn't someone write a book on the very subject?

Having said that - probably a sanitised version with no mention (for example) of the alleged defrocked priest/ex post-office robber who ran a boy bar. THAT'S the sort of brilliant stuff I'd want to read about

:yahoo_mini:

[Oliver]

Yes....I re-read it recently. It's by Michael Burchall who owned Cockpit when I first visited. But I enjoy the personal memories of punters, too.
By the way Scottish, please say thanks to Celtic supporters... the world's most popular club at the moment! .

[scottish-guy]

I'll just say thanks to myself then :clapping:

[Nirish guy]

No accounting for taste ! :-P

[paperboy]

talking about celtic
they even have a great suport in Thailand
https://www.facebook.com/Bangkok-Celtic-Supporters-Club-139665642752869/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljBbMJhEyPc

[goji]

Lets see, in the mid 80's Pattaya was considered run down and dirty. There was no gay scene in Chaing Mai nor in Phuket. It was either Bangkok or Pattaya. So, what you have seen in the course of 30 years is the centralized growth in a few gay meccas in the 90's and now the decentralization of that growth.

I'm interested in your theory. Decentralised to where ? I'm not aware of any growth in the gay scene in any of the 4 places you listed in the last 10 years. Other than perhaps decentralising to phone apps.
Discuss. (As certain exam papers used to say).

[scottish-guy]

I believe you're correct - there's been no growth of any gay scene in the places mentioned in the last 10 yrs, only stand-still or shrinkage.

In my judgement, there's been no de-centralisation from BKK or Pattaya in that time.

Nothing would entice me back to Chiang Mai after an absence of maybe 10yrs - and although I will probably visit Phuket in the next couple of weeks I hold out no hope that its "gay offering" will have expanded in any way.

[MiniMee]

I believe you're correct - there's been no growth of any gay scene in the places mentioned in the last 10 yrs, only stand-still or shrinkage.In my judgement, there's been no de-centralisation from BKK or Pattaya in that time.In your judgement? Can you offer a perspective from your experinece in the laste 10 years? No? When was the last time you visited Thailand?

[arsenal]

Minimee: As your last six posts have been attacks on Scottish can you tell us the last time YOU posted anything worth reading? It's just that you've been a member since 2008 and you have only 2 likes. Disappointing.

[TaoR]

30 years ago there was an active gay scene in Bangkok and Pattaya...and there was absolutely nothing else. Thai Airways had three flights a week to Phuket. Now you have an active gay scene in Phuket, Chaing Mai, and various other places to a more or less degree. That is what I was describing as "decentralization." 30 years ago, it took me over 6 months to get a visa to Burma and look at Burma now and 30 years ago it was the place time forgot. 30 years ago you wouldn't go anywhere near Cambodia and look at it now.

I remember talking to old guys back in the early 80's and hearing their stories of how great things used to be in Bangkok and Pattaya. I was having the time of my life and they were remembering the good old days.

Like everything else in life, technology is disruptive. No doubt the dating apps are hurting the bar scene in Thailand but I also have no doubt that someone will figure out a way to tie these apps with a new bar and before you know it the gay scene in Pattaya will be transformed again...because as best as I can tell, Pattaya has "died" at least three times in the last 40 years.

As long as there is a "demand" there will always be a "supply" it just might come from a different source....

So now, Bangkok and Pattaya have to compete against how many other places for the gay dollar?

[fountainhall]

Thai Airways had three flights a week to Phuket. Now you have an active gay scene in Phuket, Chaing Mai, and various other places to a more or less degree. That is what I was describing as "decentralization." 30 years ago.
With all respect Taor, THAI had at least three flights a day to both Phuket and Chiang Mai 30 years ago, if not more. Then it was a separate domestic airline and not tied in to THAI International - a bit like BEA in the UK compared to BOAC. I visited several times even earlier and always had a choice of flights. I agree there was little organised gay scene (that I noticed) but plenty of willing guys.

Both did have a gay scene by 20 years ago. But both peaked quite a few years ago and are very definitely now on the decline, although Phuket much more than Chiang Mai. I certainly wouldn't describe Phuket as having an active gay scene now. The number of go-go bars has declined considerably. In the mid-1990s there was one that had "Sharks" in the title that was a bundle of fun. Long since disappeared, along with several others.


As long as there is a "demand" there will always be a "supply" it just might come from a different source....
I wonder if it is not more accurate to say - "as long as there is supply there will always be demand!" Given that the gay scene elsewhere seems also on the decline, I reckon Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and Phuket have to really up their game first. Then the tourists will return.

[latintopxxx]

Have to agree that the gay sleaze gogo bar scene is a lot milder than what it was a dozen years ago. However as a 100% sex tourist the availability of MB has simply shifted on-line. A few years ago one could enjoy being cruised by MB whilst lounging on jomtien beach...no longer. Nut the online availability has more than compensated.

[arsenal]

Nah! I don't agree with you Latin. The apps don't get your heart beating a little faster as the taxi goes past Mini Siam, then McDonalds then turn right at The Big C. The apps don't make a stupid grin come all over your face (no filth please) as you turn into Boyztown for the first time on this particular trip. The apps don't catch you eye from BBB as you have a coffee in Oscars. The apps don't stand about in the soi with no shirt on asking you "do you want to off me?" The apps don't leave you feeling a little guilty because you didn't off the stunner that you had done the trip before. The apps don't dance about on stage in tiny whities, the lights catching every nook and cranny.
If the apps are a replacement for go go bars then it's like Christmas and New Year being replaced by a party for Granny in her care home bedroom.

[latintopxxx]

mmmmm...must admit u do have a point.

[MiniMee]

you've been a member since 2008 and you have only 2 likes. Disappointing. Dear Arsenal. It’s very sweet of you to show such concern. But I don’t really mind since I don’t come here to have my ego stroked.

[goji]

Watching boys flounce around the beach in skimpy speedos (trying to get a date) is much more fun than surfing on a phone app.

[TaoR]

Fountainhall, I am going by the journal I kept from those days and so I am not going to claim to be an authority on flight schedules during the period of 1981 to 1986 for Thailand. The end result would be the same; there wasn't much of a gay scene in Phuket or Chaing Mai at that time.

I fall in the "fell in love with a barboy" category and we traveled all over for 5 years. The "off" fee was 300 baht at Barbiery at that time and the tip was 1000 to 1500 baht...which is pretty much what it is today, 35 years later. So it should be obvious why the decline has occurred.

[arsenal]

Minimee: Considering how uninteresting most members seem to find your posts that's just as well, isn't it?

[Marsilius]

I certainly wouldn't describe Phuket as having an active gay scene now. The number of go-go bars has declined considerably. In the mid-1990s there was one that had "Sharks" in the title that was a bundle of fun. Long since disappeared, along with several others.

Wasn't it "Young Shark"? Yes, Phuket in the mid-1990s was a great destination. I last tried the place about four or five years ago and can vouch for the decline in both the scale and the enjoyability of its gay scene.

[christianpfc]

Now you have an active gay scene in Phuket, Chaing Mai, and various other places to a more or less degree.
Here what I know:
Bangkok has various gogo and host bars, discos, saunas
Pattaya has various gogo and host bars, discos, one sauna
Chiang Mai has various gogo and host bars, one disco (See Man) and two saunas
Phuket has various gogo and host bars (from internet, no personal experience), don't know of disco and sauna
Ubon has one sauna and no mor host bar (Black Beans looked closed and gone when I passed in Aug 2016)
Khon Kaen has one sauna and no more disco
Udon has one sauna and one disco (if it still exists, my last visit was Jan 2015 ?)

There might be places there and elsewhere not on the internet and not known to me and my friends.

[christianpfc]

Forgot Hat Yai: two host bars and two sauna on my last visit in 2014.

[loke]

Well Sunee plaza is completely dead when I went there yesterday . So everything has changed to worse all over Thailand I think .

Use your online apps and hope for the best . I think the future is not looking great .

[arsenal]

Just imagine a reborn Sunee. Some nice little restaurants, some host bars, a few shisha bars, perhaps a ladyboy bar or two, a couple of coffee houses and a few go go bars all mixed up together. Now that would be a place to party the night away. You simply wouldn't want to leave.

[francois]

loke, stop into Eros and check out the living dead.

[Surfcrest]

I traveled all over the country, when I first came to Thailand in 1993. Bon Tong would know best as to the history of Chiang Mai, where it all began to the history since. I have a journal somewhere in my closets with some scribble of the various places I visited on each trip back then. I had to dig through my old photo boxes to confirm for my memory, of the places I visited.

I seem to recall quite a few different places back then. In Phuket, I think My Way was still there and several open air beer bars, where you could sit out with the boys, have a beer and maybe play a little pool. There were open air places along the canal, by the night market in Chiang Mai by then I think. I recall going out to the Coffee Boy with a few friends, a lanna style house where you'd sit on cushions on the floor with whatever boy they assigned you.

For me, Chiang Mai was exciting...more Thai than the other places I'd seen back then. Old low rise buildings, temples everywhere and the smell of great Thai food in the air. I took an excursion up to Chiang Rai and Mae Sai. I spent most of my time in Phuket on excursions out in the Andaman to places like Phi Phi, Phang Nga and Krabi.

I was 30 back in 1993 and I had traveled quite a bit in life already by then, so for me Bangkok was just another massive metropolis with just a hint of being Thai compared to Chiang Mai. There was no MRT or BTS, only gridlock traffic and so now, you are able to get around much faster, with lots to see along the way...Bangkok is vastly better than what is was. I recall going to some interesting places there though, especially up in the Saphan Kwai. I recall going to places where they'd have photo albums in the lobby of the boys upstairs, or boys all lined up fully clothes behind a curtain. Once I found the Midnight Cowboy, I think that was the place I'd come back to again and again. The Barbiery was upstairs behind a locked door with doormen posted. I think they used to lock the place down once the shows started, probably the best shows I've seen anywhere since. Sure, Dreamboys has put on some pretty wild fuck shows a few years back and so did the Barbiery, but they added a lot of other variety to their shows...especially the candle wax and the body paint. My Way, which only closed a few years back was the very first gay bar I went to in Thailand.

I finished off my first trip in Thailand with a week at the Jomtien beach. I stayed down at the Sugar Palm and had one of those "love at first sight" moments, my first 2 minutes down at Dong Tan beach. I had met some great guys in the earlier places I'd visited already, but no one as beautiful as the one I'd just met. When I came back for my second trip, it was for him, but it didn't last past that visit unfortunately. I tacked on some Jomtien "beach time" to those early trips and then afterwards when I bought a place, I'd finish my vacation in Bangkok. Within 10 years or so the most notorious show bars in Pattaya were gone and the best shows were only to be had in Bangkok. Crazy Boys was happening in Sunee by the early 2000's, the wild shows they'd do for you behind a chain link fence in the center of the bar.

But, back in 1993 I quite liked Adam & Eve, Aquarius, The Ball Park. Boys Boys Boys was the biggest thing down in the Boyztown area...I can't recall if the big Boyztown sign was up back then? There may have been others, but I spent most of my time down on the beach those days and many days never leaving Jomtien for anything.

All these changes to the scene in Thailand people are commenting on won't impact me much, once I'm able to get back next. I rarely drink anymore and I prefer to spend most days down at my place at the beach. I've seen most of the roads improve over the years that I've been coming to Thailand. The infrastructure is better, you have so much more time to get around and do things now that rapid transit has changed the dynamic of the city for tourists. I have a shopping list of things I buy in Thailand and either bring home with me or I get shipped back. Shipping was very unreliable 23 years ago. I've lost interest in the bars, even beer bars and pubs and my Canadian boyfriend and I rarely travel apart anymore, so all that other stuff isn't so important..

I think, a lot of the changes to the "bar scene" or to prostitution in Thailand are tied to modernization and a higher standard of living. No doubt the current government wants to see that change too and so are able to make the changes happen faster. You will see a vastly accelerated version of the same thing happening in Havana, once relations normalize completely with the US and the need or acceptance to prostitution changes.

Surfcrest

[Marsilius]

Ah, Midnight Cowboy in 1993... You're right - that really was a memorable experience, with thirty or forty young Thai "cowboys" lined up on the stage at the front of the bar. The place was made even better by the fact that the mama san was an English transvestite who was very friendly and, to a relative newbie such as I was then, a great help in explaining how the "off" concept operated. Her name, some might recall, was Camilla and I'm told that, just a few years ago, she was still in the Saphan Kwai area but now giving private English lessons.

[Marsilius]

Down in Pattata in 1993, more fond memories - this time of the Ball Park. For those who don't recall it - it was relatively shortlived - it was located in the east side of Second Road, just north of the intersection with Pattaya Klang. Ball Park was the first place that I saw boys fucking themselves with beer bottles and pulling strings of paper butterflies out of their arses. One of its employees, a certain Boonjan, was also (in)famous as the possessor of the largest appendage in town at the time (and I have the photos to prove it!)

Out towards Naklua, Nautilus was Pattaya's first bar with naked boys swimming in a tank. The original Cockpit, over the soI from BBB, was also great fun.

[TaoR]

Thank you for sharing Surfcrest! Gave me the desire to pull out my old photos...

Barbiery was on the second floor and originally was rather small but sometime around 1983-84 they had expanded to the third floor.

My first trip to Bangkok was just a one night stopover and after checking into my hotel (by the old airport) I got a taxi to take me to....well, I ended up at some sort of of brothel complex with all these Thai women behind a glass partition. Not where I wanted to go but since I was there I figured, "Oh, what the heck...." I didn't find the "gay mecca" until my second trip to Bangkok. Sure could have used the internet and Google back then!

My second trip started off on the wrong foot too! The first night in Bangkok I called an escort service for a man. So they sent this guy over and well, he wasn't told that he was going to be "escorting" a guy. But I did get him to take me out and around and some how we ended up at Barbiery. (I tipped the escort and sent him on his way....boy, was he relieved! :)

Barbiery was small and by then it was packed; literally wall to wall. The Mamasan, who eventually became a very dear friend, kept checking in on me and telling me, "If you want boy you pick one now or all be gone...."

I really couldn't make up my mind...so finally I said, "Can I take the waiter?" The Mamasan got the strangest look on his face and said, "Oh, he new boy he never have sex with man..."

So the Mamasan talked to him and he came over and sat down and we talked for a while and he eventually agreed ("I try...okay, I try?")

He and I hit it off and from then on every time I was in Thailand he would meet me at the airport and off we would go...

I still hear from him via cards, letters, and now emails...34 years later.

[fountainhall]

Barbiery was small and by then it was packed; literally wall to wall.
Much as I loved the small Apollo go-go bar in Soi 4 and always visited the old Twilight on my many visits to Bangkok during the whole of the 1980s, Barbiery unquestionably had the most boys, the best-looking boys and the best shows. It was just such a fun place to be and all the boys seemed to be having a great time. Certainly I don't recall any tied-off dicks - I believe they were just naturally erect!

I agree completely that at week-ends it was packed to the rafters with lots of extra seats being added until there was literally no additional space. And there would always be a small queue outside waiting to get in. Lots of the boys were offed pretty quickly. Even on week-days there was still a decent-sized audience.

What is so interesting, in my view, is that the majority of the punters then were Thai and not a few were in their 30s or younger. Same was true in Twilight although I always reckoned the average age of the Thais was older. Much later, as more and more farang appeared, many of the Thai punters soon began to disappear. And I have always wondered - what happened to the new, younger generation of Thais who were not going to the bars? I have occasionally heard of go-go bars in out of the way places that farang never hear about and would not be welcome. I know one young Thai friend who did go to one about 40 minutes drive outside Bangkok, but I have never been able to get out of him what went on there. "It's not for you and you'd not like it" is all I get!

[fountainhall]

My first trip to Bangkok was just a one night stopover and after checking into my hotel (by the old airport) I got a taxi to take me to....well, I ended up at some sort of of brothel complex with all these Thai women behind a glass partition.
I posted too early and the 15 minute time limit for editing meant I could not get this into the earlier post!

Your post is interesting because my first visit in mid-1979 was also a one-night stopover on a long multi-stop Air France flight from Europe to Hong Kong. And I was equally far away from the centre, although in the opposite direction, as friends had suggested staying at the Royal Hotel near the Royal Palace! Thankfully, after a long jet-lagged afternoon nap I found a tout outside the hotel who understood I was looking for a boy bar and not a girlie one. After a long tuktuk ride back in to the city we ended up in Lang Suan, took a small passageway between two buildings and ended up at a large ramshackle old Thai house. This was the dingy Stockholm bar. Does anyone else have memories if it? It just had about a dozen lads in jeans and T-shirts on stage and no other punters. The rooms upstairs were basic and probably filthy, but for a total newbie to Asia it was a revelation and I had an amazing time!