If I owned a bar in Pattaya......

[bucknaway]

I was reading another thread and a poster noted that what is needed is a different formula to remain open and draw the customers. It got me to thinking what I would do differently if I had a bar in Thailand.

Lets say the bar would be the Copa before they turned it into an open air bar. I would keep the guys on stage and also position more around the bar dancing. If they are muscular, I would have them go through different poses to accentuate their muscles.

Being a tourist town, I would try to find something the bar could give away to the customers. Maybe a beer mug with the bars name on it or the logo. Maybe a nice looking cheap necklace similar to what is sold by orientaltrading.com. Maybe let the guys jump down from the stage, walk up to a customer and share a free jello shot with them. Of course there would be a limit on how many shots chould be givin out in a single night.

Maybe let the guys put on a talent show on typical slow nights.

Always try to involve a member of the audience in some part of the show.
I imagine doing something fun like having 2 sexy guys on stage in their underwear and having 2 guys from the audience are picked and told that they can win a kiss if they can dress the guy in the clothes that are in the box. Once they agree they will be blindfolded. Unknown to the guys in blindfold, the sexy guys are replaced by ladyboys who are waiting for their kiss at the end of the contest.

I would try to find hosts that engage the customers. Greeting random customers and offering them a special bar welcome! Then calling several random guys from the stage to hug and rub themself on him. Maybe have 2 or 3 other guys stand and partially block the view of the guy or girl being welcomed. Maybe in a bit of theatrics, a group of ladyboys could act as if they are going to do the welcome only to be blocked by the host of the guys. Maybe once and a while the ladyboys get to welcome a customer or two with a lot of laughter from the crowd.

Offer drink specials for large groups... Buy 2 gogo guy drinks, get one gogo guy drink free.

When the guys are not on stage, let them sit closer to the customers, deliver some drinks or even give place Mardi Gras type beads or Hawaian type Lei's around the necks of random customers topped off by the traditional Thai sniff-kiss.

The objective would be to find the right festive and fun atmosphere to fit the venue. The host would be crucial as they would set the tone. If they don't have the right chemistry than it would not work.

Also, if these things don't work.... Try something new.

[fountainhall]

Cannot agree more. Although I don't have recent experience of the Pattaya bars, the ones in Bangkok are in desperate need of new ideas. Some inexpensive give-away merchandise could be fun, as would more audience participation (non-sexual but perhaps suggestive) with the boys. But we all know that there is a seemingly desperate fear of anything new amongst bar owners. That plus a dwindling clientele results in just more of the same at higher prices. Could this be because the bib will not tolerate a change in a bar's offerings?

There was a thread some time ago which included the model for a bar suggested quite a few years ago by the poster shamlessmack. He was then posting as macaroni21 on the gaythailand board. Even using the search engine here, I cannot locate the thread so I cannot give you a link. But I did copy it and will include it as the next post.

[homeseeker]

Interesting post OP. A bar needs to attract customers and generate income. Quite apart from selling alcohol etc., if a bar has a generous supply of "offable" boys then it surely will be successful. So the secret is getting a large number of boys who will be attractive enough to go off several times every week.
A prospective bar owner needs to make sure the boys he employs will be popular and wanted by customers.

[fountainhall]

This is the business model for a go-go bar suggested some years ago by shamelessmack. As is clear, it involves a series of smaller areas within a larger bar.

I ask myself, if I were to launch a new bar, how would I do it, bearing in mind the economic trends?

Etrend 1: Boys expect to earn more as cost of living rises.

Etrend 2: Good-looking, good attitude boys may be scarcer, so trying to stock a bar with 100 boys (like Dream Boy today) would be unrealistic. Perhaps 30 - 40 boys would be max.

Etrend 3: The "arms-race" of doing ever more elaborate shows that need to be re-engineered frequently to keep them fresh costs an arm and a leg.

Etrend 4: Audience numbers will be flat until the great wave from China materialises. . .

Etrend 5: Even then, the Chinese may never be all that keen to off (reasons explained in the other thread Holiday Sunday Numbers Seem Down), but will likely be prepared to pay a small premium for small shows and nude dancing, something they don't get in their home country.

---

How will I address these issues? Perhaps I would hypothetically build a bar with a layout like this:

3882
(blocked out for some reason are the dimensions - 2m x 2m)

The operational model will be rather different from current, in response to each of the 5 economic trends mentioned above.

But first, I'll walk you (as customer) through the bar:

1. No women, no Thais under 20 years old, allowed.

2. No smoking inside the bar.

3. You enter and receive a number tag from the cashier (like in a sauna). All purchases made inside the bar will be charged to that number; you settle the account on departure. Perhaps a cover charge (200 baht?) can be paid on entry if the competitive environment allows it. That prepaid cover charge can be consummable, i.e. it is set off as a credit against purchases of drinks.

4. In the main salon, you will see several boys dancing in their briefs on the stage behind the bar. You are free to just sit at the bar, but you are obliged to order your first drink.

5. You may call a boy over, buy him a drink (or not) and sit with him in the sofas, and if the brief conversation works out, you off him.

6. Every hour on the hour, the captain announces "Showtime now. Anybody interested?"

7. Let's say 13 customers are interested. There are two more who are here to off a boy and aren't interested in the show; they continue to sit in the main salon, where boys continue to do their rotations on the stage -- in other words the show should not inconvenience these customers.

8. The captain opens two private rooms and splits the 13 customers into two groups, putting six in one room, seven in the other. The charge for the show is 200 or 250 baht per customer, which includes a second drink.

9. The show thus takes place in a more intimate setting -- a room no larger than a small bedroom -- where the boys dance a mere arm's length from the seated customers.

10. The boys either dance nude or dance in a manner that strips to nude. The etiquette is NO TOUCHING unless the boys invite you to lay your hands on them briefly. Naturally, the boys are encouraged as part of their routine to invite the customers by turn to do so from time to time, in order to up the thrill quotient.

12. The show is mostly done on a small, low podium/stage that is 2 metres by 2 metres (the size of a king-sized bed, enough space to allow for acts of sodomy if that's what the show requires).

13. In each room, the show involves about 6 boys (or maybe 8 boys if the cost structure allows it). In the first half, each boy does a 5-minute dance solo, either (i) coyote-style, (ii) Manila macho-dancer bar style, or (iii) Chiangmai style. In the second half, the 6 (or file://localhost/Users/JOHN/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/msoclip/0clip_image002.gif boys are paired or trio'ed for their routines.

14. From the customer's perspective, he is in a really intimate setting with boys hardly more than a metre away, making frequent eye contact and with seductive smiles. He is also invited by the dancing boys to touch and caress them now and then. The show has a degree of personal attention that a bigger showspace cannot provide. Although the customer had been asked to stump up an extra 200 or 250 baht for the show (on top of the first drink), he is getting value for it.

15. The economics is that the six or seven customers in a private room will have put up 1500 or 1750 baht for the show. Involving 6 (or file://localhost/Users/JOHN/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/msoclip/0clip_image004.gif boys, the labour cost for each room's show will be 600 (or 800) baht with each boy getting 100 baht for an hour's work (serious dancing, not shuffling)

16. The duration of the show is about 45 - 50 minutes, comprising 9 - 11 acts. At the end, the rooms have to be vacated for cleaning in preparation for the next round of shows. If a customer wants to see a subsequent show, it's another 200 or 250 baht, though for most people, 45 - 50 minutes will have been enough!

The economics of such a bar has the following characteristics:

The typical customer will be buying two drinks: the first drink on entry and the second drink either because he wants to sit with a boy prior to an off, or because he wants to see a show. Two drinks per customer is a significant improvement on the present one-drink average in most bars. The important thing though is that the customer must feel he gets value from paying for a second drink, and that is where an intimate, hands-on show comes in.

Staffing characteristics:

The bar doesn't need a lot of boys. Assuming on average at each hour, only two rooms are opened for shows, the bar needs only 12 boys (6 boys per room), plus another 10 - 12 doing the rotation in the main salon. If there's a surge of customers and all four private rooms need to be used, the same 12 dancing boys can cover all four rooms by having each dancing team of six boys to stagger their routines between two adjacent rooms. Double the work, yes, but double the earnings.

Competitive advantage:

Because there's a show every hour on the hour, customers can come any time that is convenient for them. The bar is able to attract customers at those hours where other bars aren't doing shows. Bars with "blockbuster" type shows can't afford to put up more than one-and-a-half of them per night, so they can't have a show going on through the entire evening. This little bar can.

---

The business model responds to the economic trends thus:

Response to Etrend 1: Currently, gogo boys are mostly wasting time, doing little and earning nothing unless/until they get an off which is "jackpot money". In the new business model, the boys are working for pay for many of the seven or eight hours they are in the bar. For each set of dancing in a private room (each boy does an average of two 5-minute items per 45-minute set) a boy earns 100 baht. Assuming a typical boy gets to do three sets a night, he earns 300 baht. Multipled by 25 days a month, he has base earnings of 7500 baht before tips.

Response to Etrend 2: As boys become scarcer, the bar runs on fewer boys, but these boys work harder to deliver satisfying shows. Running on fewer boys also means the bar owner can get a little picky about which boys to hire, thereby keeping the "good looks" factor, boosting the rate of offs.

Response to Etrend 3: No more elaborate staging for shows and the costs associated with that.

Response to Etrend 4: In an era of flat tourist numbers, such a bar will rarely look empty. That's because it is divided into small spaces, and you only open such spaces as are needed (also save on airconditioning). A small salon or private dance room with 6 customers in it looks a lot better than a bar that can seat 100, but has only six people; the atmosphere is more encouraging.

Response to Etrend 5: The bar and its boys draw revenue not by relying on high rate of offs -- in a new era of Chinese tourists this may not be realistic -- but by getting customers to pay for a second drink in order to get a satisfying show. Of course, any offs that the bar/boys get will be good too.

Operational imperatives for success:

A bar that requires boys to actually work through a seven-hour shift (rather than sit about or shuffle about as at present) requires boys with a good work ethic. This especially as every boy must be able to perform on stage, equipped with a handful of routines, executed reasonably well (i.e. with artistry, with good eye contact and seductive appeal to customers). This means training, training, training.

I also think it is imperative to address the problem of service quality after being off'd, but that's a separate issue I have written about before.

[latintopxxx]

I would combine "fun" elements of the various international bars that have had the pleasure of hosting me during my travels.
1st: Boxers7Briefs in St Louis in the US
In a dodgy neighborhood but once past those doors I was transported into another world. Strippers do their stuff on separate stages arranged in the large room and the experience is very hands on. I ended up alternating between lubricating my middle finger in the strippers mouth and fingering him rather aggressively. BTW it seemed like most ofthe performers were high. Not that I care.
2nd: Puchos in Costa Rica
Absolutely fantastic. Its basically a stage with a large bar/drinking area surrounding it on 3 sides. The performers go on stage every 30 min starting at around 8pm. !@st performance is clothes and they just dance their bubble butts off. Every dance session they have less clothing. The last 3 performances after 11pm are completely naked and they are erect. No elastics around their dicks. Customers are free to take photos. In between performances the performers mingle amongst the customers begging for drinks and tips; one is free to fondle them as one wishes. One can also reserve them for a private 30 min session for a pittance. I did.
3: stripper place in atlanta..cant recall the name.
Guys strip on stage and then mix amongst the customers whilst still naked..again begging for tips. Customers sit at little tables with thir drinks. All very civilised, I hate how in Thailand one is forced to sit on stoopid bunks facing the stage.
4: then there is eros...simply brilliant. But needs more and better quality boys.

[latintopxxx]

I really need to have a good think. There was another place in the US, called tin room or something. Was basically a a large bar with music, performers in g-strings or very tight briefs danced on little platforms and one was allowed to caress and fondle for a small tip.
And in Puchos in cots rica there was an excellent dark room/cruise area around the back. Excellent. In fact really enjoyed costa rica. Lotsa cheap and good arse available. Pity the place is so far away and surrounded by shit hole countries.

[arsenal]

There are three bars in Boyztown that seem to be doing just fine. X-boys (although it is on the slide) BBB and Toyboys. The first two have pretty vibrant shows and loads and loads of staff which gives the impression there is always something going on, even if there isn't. The latter has an excellent selection of clean and polished boys to satisfy all tastes. The rest seem to struggle to have any kind of identity.

My thing would be to make the bar fun for the boys working there because if they're enjoying themselves then I think the customers would too. I'm thinking when a certain song comes on they grab the nearest falang and have a dance, giant games of connect four etc. Some nudity but not too much. Welcome the freelance boys. Different boys wearing different coloured underwear on different nights.

There are several things to remember if the bars go for the Chinese market. Club prices in China are higher than most places in Thailand so the bars are likely to capitalise on that. Chinese behaviour is almost certain to drive other people away or start serious trouble so it's possible that the bars may decide to only cater for them . (And their lack of English, knowledge and general world experience means they are easy to rip off)

[fountainhall]

My thing would be to make the bar fun for the boys working there because if they're enjoying themselves then I think the customers would too
Totally agree - and surely that is neither too difficult nor expensive to make happen? I recall that decades ago fun was one of the key elements in the go-go bars - or is that just the rosy-tinted spectacle syndrome?

[arsenal]

Fountainhall. No it's not rose tinted spectacles. Think of Krazy Dragon at it's peak. Within the context of what they actually do they all seemed to be having a good time and this passed on to the customers. There was nudity but not too much with plenty of willy waving and you could have a naked boy for a dink if you wanted to. (I often did) It was vibrant and buzzing.

And it has just occured to me. One thing that Funnyboys, BBB and X-Boys have in common is that all the boys hang around outside. This not only attracts customers in but actually allows interaction between them both. I've offed more than a few boys from BBB and FB simply because a boy started talking to me outside and I found I liked him.

[a447]

Ah, yes....Krazy Dragon of old. Along with Goodboys, it was an oasis of masculine guys during a period when Sunee was dominated by fem boys, many of whom were of dubious age.

I think it went downhill because the guys weren't all that attractive.

I think the bars would do a lot better if they finally realised that most gay customers are not interested in ladyboy shows.

And I wonder why the owners don't do the obvious -ask us what we want, and then try to cater to us.

Most of my offs from a bar are not guys I've called down from the stage. I meet them outside the bar when they are sitting having a smoke. The terrace outside BBB is great for this type of hook-up. And heaps of guys hang around outside Toyboys, too. Often I think there are more boys outside than inside the bar. So a meeting area like that would be welcome.

[gerefan2]

Yes a small outside bar like the one at Copa.

[gaymandenmark]

I would loose my money

[goji]

I would loose my money And I would get p***** off paying all the bribes to keep the place open.

Much nicer to be a customer. Although, if I had couple of billion £ spare, I have a few ideas.

[lonelywombat]

My thing would be to make the bar fun for the boys working there because if they're enjoying themselves then I think the customers would too. I'm thinking when a certain song comes on they grab the nearest falang and have a dance, giant games of connect four etc. Some nudity but not too much. Welcome the freelance boys. Different boys wearing different coloured underwear on different nights.


I will never forget my first night in Prague The boys came out and danced several numbers naked and then selected somebody from the audience to dance with them . I was shocked to be one of the first to be selected, became more relaxed when every boy had selected a dance partner. About a dozen boys and a dozen happy but some embarrassed punters. Had forgotten about that first trip.

[a447]

I guess you are talking about Escape Bar in Prague.

I also enjoyed the naked dance, accompanied by a good grope of the goods.

But sitting there every night and comparing it to bars like Eros, it soon became apparent that apart from the naked dance, Eros had it all over Escape.

The guys in Thailand seem to have a lot more fun, whereas the guys in Escape were solely focussed on getting an off. As soon as they realised you weren't going to take them, they quickly moved on.

I think the naked dance would go down very well, especially if they turned the lights down as they do in Escape. And being Thailand, the boys would probably feel free to grope the customer.

[Old git]

A constant problem in Thailand, not just for bars, but other businesses as well, is a deep reluctance to think outside of the box, If someone has a successful business model, someone else will copy it, often in the same soi if not next door.

There is also a reluctance amongst many Thai business owners to try to go one better than others doing the same thing in the same locality, leading me to sometimes suspect that there are darker forces at play that the farang population knows little about.

That aside, most Thai gay bars dwell in the gutter - think class, elegance and atmosphere, rather than a grimy
dank hole with loud music and disco lighting..

[lonelywombat]

I also enjoyed the naked dance, accompanied by a good grope of the goods.
I think the naked dance would go down very well, especially if they turned the lights down as they do in Escape. And being Thailand, the boys would probably feel free to grope the customer.
I was asked if I went for the grope. I was too embarrassed . The boy made sure I knew his privates were pressing into mine and I regret I did not go further.
I think the dance number was BoyBoyBoy that is used in BBB in Pattaya

[goji]

I've never understood this fascination with turning the lights down. If there's a cute lad dancing on stage, I want it well lit so he's visible. There is no point in having a stripper in the dark.

I also would rather not criticise Thai gogo bars too much, as Thailand is the only place I actually know of with a good choice of them in several areas. Prague has Escape, with big European lads & high prices. After that, they have Club Temple, which is just a host bar & I think I've seen just the one lad get down to his underwear there.
Pattaya alone has over 12 gogo bars & Bangkok probably has a similar number. Of course they could benefit from some innovation, but Thailand is still way ahead of most other places.

A dedicated twink bar, full of guys in the smallest possible whities which all get taken off @ show time would get my business.

[a447]

I think the idea behind turning down the lights while we dance is to create some kind of romantic atmosphere.

[scottish-guy]

..Prague has Escape, with big European lads & high prices. After that, they have Club Temple, which is just a host bar & I think I've seen just the one lad get down to his underwear there..

Either you've visited on quiet nights or you've not stayed long enough. In my experience both these venues have full nudity although maybe not every night - and I agree, not comparable to Pattaya. However.......

In Escape I've seen strippers fully nude "on stage" and at one point in the evening a bunch of boys run naked through the bar amongst the customers, some of whom give tips.

In Club Temple late on, there is often some of the rent boys stripping on the stage area to the back of the bar and often the bar staff do a full nudity strip show.

Patience is a virtue!!

:))

[arsenal]

Of course there are examples of totally naked handsome athletic beautiful sexy (let me know when to stop) smooth skinned twinkly eyed beautifully buffed and beautifully buff boys dancing across the globe. But Pattaya has got loads of it. I love Pattaya and can't wait to go back,

[arsenal]

Another thing. The three remaining go go bars in Sunee , Nice Boys, Eros and Power Boys plus the three doing well in Boyztown, BBB, Toy Boys and X-Boys all have a majority of straight boys working there. Interesting methinks.

[a447]

In Escape I've seen strippers fully nude "on stage" and at one point in the evening a bunch of boys run naked through the bar amongst the customers, some of whom give tips.

Yes, plenty of nudity in all the different shows during the night but hardly a hard-on in sight. In fact, the only time I saw a hard cock was when the Turkish guy jacked off on stage.

Eros is much more fun and no shows are needed. The guys and their skimpy 'skirts" are all that is required.

[scottish-guy]

.. the only time I saw a hard cock was when the Turkish guy jacked off on stage...

Yes I do wish the customers would conduct themselves with a bit more decorum

:yahoo_mini:

[goji]

In Club Temple late on, there is often some of the rent boys stripping on the stage area to the back of the bar and often the bar staff do a full nudity strip show.
Patience is a virtue!!


I think I hung on past midnight and 1:00 am once & it might have been just one very average specimen strip down to his underwear. Whilst the choice of boys was thinning out.
Perhaps it was worse than the average Saturday night, but if I see someone I want to off, we're going to the hotel with no waiting around. Much better than falling asleep in the bar.

[colmx]

Another thing. The three remaining go go bars in Sunee , Nice Boys, Eros and Power Boys plus the three doing well in Boyztown, BBB, Toy Boys and X-Boys all have a majority of straight boys working there. Interesting methinks.

Arsenal - you have to have one of the worst gaydars on the planet!
There are as many "true" straight boys in TB as I currently have in my bedroom!
Just cos you imagine them as straight boys whilst they are with you - does not make them a straight boy!
As soon as your off is finished they are all "straight" back to their BFs!
Lets face it a true straight boy would never ever dream of going with a gay male!

[francois]

Arsenal -
Lets face it a true straight boy would never ever dream of going with a gay male!

Au contraire, Arsenal. My bf is a straight arrow but has been with me for many years.

[colmx]

Au contraire, Arsenal. My bf is a straight arrow but has been with me for many years.

Funnily enough my mostly "straight" BF has been with me 14 years... But I still find movies on his laptop of him fucking and getting fucked by other "straight" boys... Lets face it in Thailand a hole is a hole... and nobody minds whether its a man or woman as long s everybody is having fun!

As per my original post...there are very few TRUE straight boys on Pattaya or BKks gay scenes!!

[arsenal]

Francois: I think you mean 'au contraire' colmx because I agree with you.

Colmx: You're wrong about this and if you can't see the difference between a straight and a gay Thai boy then I suggest you purchase a pair of thick biofocals. And no one in this world knows what constitutes a 'true' straight. They often leave me (very happy) and go back to their wives and kids.

[francois]

Yes, Colmx, not you Arsenal.

[colmx]

Francois: I think you mean 'au contraire' colmx because I agree with you.

Colmx: You're wrong about this and if you can't see the difference between a straight and a gay Thai boy then I suggest you purchase a pair of thick biofocals. .

Arsenal - Thankfully I am still young enough to not need glasses... but you are the one that's wrong, and as long as you are happy to believe that the "straight" boy that you are with is truly straight... then you are living the dream!

The rest of us know you are buying a fantasy!
-If the guy sucks you cock... then he is 70% gay
-If he is hard when you suck him, then he is also 70% gay
-If there is no sucking or fucking going on - then you deserve to be taken for a ride!

In my opinion no more than 25% of the boys are truly straight... and most of those are only straight as their family demands expect it!

Lets face it none of us know what the guys deep down feelings are... but if a guy is hard when he's sucking another guys cock... then he is definitely not straight!

[arsenal]

Colmx: I don't know what's going on between you and your boyfriend but your post is rather bitter and I suspect other factors are responsible for this. Let's just agree to disagree. OK.

[Oliver]

I am interested to discover that my sexual preferences mean that I'm "being taken for a ride." I was under the impression that I'd rather enjoyed my seventy or so visits to Thailand...I damn well should have in view of the money I spent there.

[christianpfc]

I would be very careful with involving customers. I wouldn't like to be dragged on stage for some funny activities. Same for ladyboys. Ladyboys can be funny, but in most bars it's far beyond being funny.

[latintopxxx]

They can turn mortally dangerous too. Many moons ago I was dragged onto a stage to hold a balloon between my legs so that it could be punctured by a dart blown through a long pipe out of a trannys arse...it hit my leg. heavens knows where that dart hard been before!? Took 2 HIV tests to convince me I wasnt about to drop dead and deny multiple MB of my custom.

[scottish-guy]

... I had to hold a balloon between my legs so that it could be punctured by a dart blown through a long pipe out of a trannys arse....

I never knew NIrish had been in showbusiness.

:clapping:

[francois]

They can turn mortally dangerous too. Many moons ago I was dragged onto a stage to hold a balloon between my legs so that it could be punctured by a dart blown through a long pipe out of a trannys arse...it hit my leg. heavens knows where that dart hard been before!? Took 2 HIV tests to convince me I wasnt about to drop dead and deny multiple MB of my custom.

She was probably one of your past customers and was aiming for your balls.