Still Want to Visit Singapore?

[fountainhall]

This is more jumping on the "Still Want to" bandwagon than a thread as serious as the ones on Malaysia and The Philippines. Yet it shows the utter pettiness, idiocy and stupidity of the Singapore authorities when it comes to men kissing in public - or, at least, in a public theatre.

Les Miserables is the most popular musical in the world. It has played several times in Singapore over the past 20 years. In the current production, the producer threw in an innocent kiss between two men. Well, not really a kiss - more a mere peck on the lips during the song "Beggars at the Feast". In that strictly controlled city state, all scripts for public performance have to be vetted by censors. (Do they actually believe we are actually now in the 21st century?) 'That' kiss was not in the script. And so when a member or members of the public - allegedly - filed complaints (in Singapore such phantom allegations are not uncommon), the censors spring into action. Get rid of the kiss, or get rid of your "Open to the General Public" license and instead we'll slap on a "Restricted" Licence. Since this would cut ticket sales, the producers really had little alternative but get rid of the kiss!

This blatant act of mindless censorship came only days after the same authorities started to clamp down on the success of the annual Pink Dot rally. Since Gay Street Parades are banned, some years ago the LGBT community got together in a park dressed in pink. This year more than 30,000 gays and their friends and families congregated in the park - peacefully and in a fun manner. Business corporations had started sponsoring the event. But Pink Dot is now considered too successful. So foreign-based companies like Barclays, Google and JP Morgan have been warned by the government that they must not fund such events in future. What a pathetic bunch of wankers!

3815
Pink Dot 2016: photo Yahoo

[goji]

I could understand such nonsense from a few other crap countries, with corrupt & undemocratic government. Mostly countries in Africa, the middle East & the most eastern parts of Europe/north Asia.
But Singapore ? What the hell are they thinking of ?

Do you have evidence of the warnings sent to Barclays, Google etc. ? I'm a Barclays customer and will write to them if there is evidence.

[fountainhall]

I cannot now locate the original BBC article, but this one quotes it -


Same-sex issues still controversial
Public response to LGBT performers, art and issues continues to be controversial in Singapore. According to the BBC and Reuters, Singapore’s Ministry of Home Affairs on 8 June 2016 warned foreign firms they “should not fund, support or influence” events such as the state’s annual Pink Dot gay-pride event, which took place on 3 June 2016. Sponsors of the event included Google, Facebook, Twitter, Barclays, Apple, Microsoft and more.
http://artsfreedom.org/?p=11597

This is a real dilemma for many companies which have a definite LGBT hiring policy. But companies based in Singapore go against government "advisories" at their peril. Many take advantage of special tax privileges.

As a postscript, Singapore has a particularly active Christian religious right! You'd think the Muslim population might be against something like the Pink Dot Parade, but I cannot find anything. It is the Christian religious zealots who help the government promote its policy - or government policy is designed not to upset such zealots!

[fountainhall]

I ran out of editing time before being able to add the following. It is, I think, interesting that a year ago Singapore's Prime Minister said this to a visiting journalist -


the gay community have the space to live their lives in Singapore, he added. "We do not harass them or discriminate against them," he said when replying to a Filipino journalist who was interviewing him with other visiting Asean journalists . . .
Given this is Singapore, it's not at all odd that this is in fact at odds with the comments of his Minister for Home Affairs. For note that later he adds this -


"There is space for the gay community but they should not push the agenda too hard because if they push the agenda too hard, there will be a very strong pushback," Mr Lee said. "And this is not an issue where there is a possibility that the two sides can discuss and eventually come to a consensus. Now, these are very entrenched views and the more you discuss, the angrier people get," he added
http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/singapore-not-ready-for-same-sex-marriage-as-society-is-still-conservative-pm-lee

In other words you exist at our pleasure and so you accept our rules. Go against them, and the State will come down hard on you!

[fedssocr]

It's a shame that Christian bigots hold sway in so many places. Look at South Korea, for example. A perfectly modern country in most respects, but the repressive attitudes towards gays there is a real stain. And it's all due to Christian bigots.

[fountainhall]

I wonder why it is that so many Koreans are so fervently Christian. It can have absolutely nothing to do with their original Confucian beliefs. Yet I can remember my first flight into the old international Kimpo airport after dark and being amazed to see red-lit crucifixes on seemingly half the buildings! The Yoido Full Gospel Church is the world's largest with more than 1 million members, larger even that the charlatan Moonies organisation - although the Yoido founder David Cho was found guilty of embezzling $12 million a couple of years ago, so it seems they are all crooks.* Only the USA sends out more missionaries into the world than Korea!

* On the subject of crooks, interesting to note that the "Pastor" of Singapore's City Harvest mega Church was recently convicted along with several of his flock for embezzling almost $35 million to promote his wife's singing career in the USA. Unless his appeal is successful, he'll spend 8 years in jail. And his Church members all believed he was doing the Lord's work! It seems that many people in general actually want be conned.

[fedssocr]

I think the USA sent lots of "missionaries" to S. Korea after the Korean War

[frequent]

This is more jumping on the "Still Want to" bandwagon than a thread as serious as the ones on Malaysia and The Philippines. Yet it shows the utter pettiness, idiocy and stupidity of the Singapore authorities when it comes to men kissing in public - or, at least, in a public theatre.
All you're doing is having a rant because an authoritarian (Asian) nation believes they should mandate social norms to enhance social cohesion. How is this different from Thailand's lese majeste law which has (explicity) exactly the same aim?

[fountainhall]

From the little I've been reading, it seems Christianity was deeply embedded in the dissident independence community during the Japanese occupation in the first half of the century. Many Koreans refused to accept the Japanese Emperor as a living God and saw Christianity almost as a way of defying the ruling Japanese. But by the end of the Korean War, only around 2% of the South were Christians. Many more no doubt were converted by missionaries as a symbol of their independence during the Cold War. Many of the preachers had actually came from Pyongyang which, ironically, was a hotbed of Presbyterianism before the War. Even Kim Il-sung had been brought up in the Presbyterian faith! Yet this doesn't really explain why the hyper growth of Christianity in South Korea only started in the 1990s, nor why the roughly 30% who are Christian today are almost fanatical in the profession of their faith.

[dinagam]

There is money to be made in Christianity, especially in hitherto Confucian societies in Asia.
Once a successful conversion is made, the church ( especially evangelicals ) is guaranteed a monthly contribution of at least 10% of the new member's salary. The richer the catch, the more prosperous the church becomes. Thereafter through savvy networking the welfare of its members is generally well taken care of, and in this way the church grows from strength...

[fountainhall]

All you're doing is having a rant because an authoritarian (Asian) nation believes they should mandate social norms to enhance social cohesion. How is this different from Thailand's lese majeste law which has (explicity) exactly the same aim?
Yes I am having a rant! In the first place, because Singaporeans themselves have held the censors up to ridicule for idiotically banning "that" male peck on the lips. They permit a number of gay related plays but a silly little peck on the lips is not in their rule book! Besides, the original complaint was made on Facebook by a man identified as being a member of an anti-Pink Dot Group. A flood of other comments have included, "Folks, this is a classic case of moral panic!" The original Facebook entry was quickly taken down!

I have huge admiration for what Lew Kwan Yew and his government achieved in making Singapore into a great city. I also have no doubt that certain laws which others might find distasteful were necessary to ensure the development of a harmonious multi-ethnic society. But authoritarianism has been taken to extremes. The first - and only - opposition member of parliament was subjected to constant harassment and law suits. He was not allowed to participate in the 1986 General Election because he had been found guilty by the courts of false accounting of party funds. Yet, the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council later overturned the conviction, calling it a "grievous injustice." Later he was again stripped of his seat because he had been declared bankrupt when unable to make payments to ruling party leaders for allegedly libelling them!

As for homosexuality and the law in Singapore, I think the actor Ian McKellan said it best when he was invited - a gay actor "invited"! - to perform in Singapore in 2007.


"It would be impertinent of me to comment on Singapore society but this happens to be a law that I find personally offensive and I don't think it should be on the statute books because it inhibits my free behavior as an openly gay man.

I feel free to comment on behalf of people who do not have to suffer laws which the British Empire invented and left behind.

It's easier for a foreigner to come and speak the truth as he sees it."
You equate Singapore to Thailand. There is no need for me to comment on the latter as there is already a thread devoted to the goings on here which has 177 pages of posts and had nearly 70,000 views.