Any Pattaya bar scene/clubs/late night venue updates?

[newalaan2]

On my way to Thailand but will not be in Pattaya for a few days yet as visiting elsewhere in the Kingdom first, so just looking for any current updates on BT/Sunee/Jomtien bars but more especially late night venues/clubs like NAB, TamNanChon/Issan/Pluang Mai.....and if there are any new 'in' places for the previously fickle gay crowd before we land there. One or two Pattaya lads who keep in touch tend to prefer visiting Walking Street clubs/discos now like 808/Walk St Pub/Mixx etc...

Trip reports and posts with current updates very few and far between here nowadays, but hoping any expats, members there now or have visited recently can offer some info.

[anonone]

Sorry, newalaan. You are getting there before me so no current info from me. But will be interested to hear anything you deem report-worthy as I will be there toward the beginning of July.

[newalaan2]

Sorry, newalaan. You are getting there before me so no current info from me. But will be interested to hear anything you deem report-worthy as I will be there toward the beginning of July.
I've had a couple of PMs/emails from members/former members in reply, but there aren't many here who seem to be into the late night scene nowadays, I always found it handy to get current info before a trip to save spending 'valuable' night/nights visiting some venue which turns out to be very disappointing and the info here used to always be spot on in that regard. Fortunately Pattaya is compact enough to move from one venue to the other without too much time loss and hassle (unlike Bkk). I'll still be in Thailand/Pattaya in July might see you around some of the bars.

[anonone]

I always avoided that risk by limiting my visits exclusively to Tam Nam Isan. :). Lol

This trip is going to be interesting to see how things shake out as a single guy again.

Hope me to run into you at some point.

[Nirish guy]

Jesus the bar guys aren't going to know what's hit them, I'm guessing it's going to be like a sex tornado hitting Pattaya once Anon arrives this trip ! :-) Mr jealous - only a little ( a lot ! :-)

[anonone]

Jesus the bar guys aren't going to know what's hit them, I'm guessing it's going to be like a sex tornado hitting Pattaya once Anon arrives this trip ! :-) Mr jealous - only a little ( a lot ! :-)

Lol. High praise from the master.

I am willing to bet that at some point during my trip, a sexy Thai guy will ask me "where is Nirish?"

[Nirish guy]

Alas I'll be a mere shadow and a former memory of one who they plundered so readily - and in my case willingly :-)

I was half debating a quick ten days maybe at the end of July but honestly I just can't seem to get up the energy to be arsed these days. I made the mistake earlier this evening of watching two or three episodes of a programme about the Australian Embassy in Bangkok where they are required to help their citizens in need when they get in diffs - and honestly after watching the farang getting stung again and again in scam after scam after scam, right from thieves down to the police up ( as if there's much difference anyway !) I just "ah could I even be bothered putting myself through any drama just now" - and all for a shag and a good massage or ten -and the answer so far is no.

And before anyone says "but why would you worry or fear being scammed now more than before, it's not that as such or at all, it's just the whole rose tinted glasses thing falling off and what used to look amazing now looks tainted and just so great and even in that programme tonight farang who'd lived there 10 years getting were about to be deported (almost) just for painting their charity's building (for free) as they help out there - but as they'd had had a row with some neighbour BOOM - you're arrested, you not have work permit to be ( free) painter ( for a Thai charity) and it was of course only the fact that they or someone paid up the line handsomely no doubt that saved their asses and their Thai wives and children from losing their husbands. And yes I know those things happen every day and have done for years but I'm just at the point of "aye whatever Thailand, you can just keep it"

But we'll see, July isn't that far away perhaps ......

[fountainhall]

I was half debating a quick ten days maybe at the end of July but honestly I just can't seem to get up the energy to be arsed these days
Surely there has to be more than just that one programme that tilted your thinking? If you are not returning to Pattaya its death-knell can surely not be far away.


it's just the whole rose tinted glasses thing falling off and what used to look amazing now looks tainted
Could this be one reason for the fall off in other gay tourists, as mentioned in another thread?


in that programme tonight farang who'd lived there 10 years getting were about to be deported (almost) just for painting their charity's building (for free) as they help out there - but as they'd had had a row with some neighbour BOOM - you're arrested, you not have work permit to be ( free) painter ( for a Thai charity)
Also a pet beef of quite a few expats living here. With time on their hands, they can't even donate that time to work for a bloody charity! Seems madness. The education department has just announced another of its regular shake-ups to improve the disastrous quality of English-speaking in Thailand - the worst in ASEAN. Although not a qualified teacher, I'd happily donate a few hours a week to to take a class in English speaking - and pay my own transport costs. But the rules say that would be working - even for no pay. Idiots!

[scottish-guy]

But here's the thing - expats who've lived in Thailand for any length of time and even those of us who've never lived there and only visit as tourists, all know perfectly well that you cannot do any paid or unpaid work without a permit - that, quite straightforwardly and whether we agree with it it not, is the law of the land which we have chosen to live in or visit.

So what you actually have in these cases are not "victims" but people wilfully and recklessly breaking the law because they think they won't get caught or, more likely, grassed-up.

Incidentally, I also think that children should be taught by professional teachers, and not by enthusiastic amateurs no matter how well intentioned or erudite they might be - and that includes these people who rock up to language schools clutching these extremely questionable and totally meaningless fifty quid online TEFL "qualifications" via Groupon!!

[Nirish guy]

In an ideal world you might be right re the teachers thing SG but if there ARE no teachers, something is surely better than nothing and yes again you're right about the dodgy certificates, but the children even just being around people speaking english and trying their amateurish best to teach it is again imho better than nothing perhaps.

Re the people wifely breaking the law if you mean people in general then perhaps but in this case this was a father and son who have lived in Thailand for 10 years, with thai wives and children who opened a Thai art charity ( making cheap printed design tee shirts) and then selling them within the charity to help children who had been caught up in the sex industry. They HAD work permits to allow them to do this but as "painting" wasn't listed as one of the things they were allowed to operate ( I'm assuming like a painting and decorating business as a Thai could of course do that) then even though they were just helping a friend in their charity paint their building ( for free) then BOOM, one fight with a neighbour and that was enough for them to be arrested and on the verge of being deported, until the embassy stepped in and one of them knew a senior immigration officer who stepped in ( and no doubt took a slice of the action but instructed them to be released - IF they pleaded guilty and signed away their right to appeal (leaving whoever free to pocket their money no doubt). So whilst that was just one case, in the programme it's just one after another after another.

And your "oh it's people breaking the law" etc, that's all fine until it's some policeman standing in front of YOU making up some bullshit, either with his hand out or taking money from some other and fucking up YOUR life while he's in the process. And don't get me wrong it's nothing that I and we all haven't been aware of for years of course but it just seems to be getting more and more prevalent, or maybe it's just irking me more as I get older as the realisation sets in that we ARE just a means to an end for them to scam, rob, deceive, legally rob and generally play with at their choosing - and all just so that we can get a fuck, well no harm to them, I can get a fuck in other countries without the drama ( thank god). To be fair I;m sure the other countries are no better - but i don't KNOW that and haven't experienced it, whereas in Thailand on several thankfully very minor levels I have - and don't like it.

[Nirish guy]

Oh and fountainhall is not that I'm never returning as I've absolutely no doubt that I probably will at some point, but my desire to go there 3 or 4 times a year as I was doing previously has most definitely gone and there are other places I can go. Thailand "use" farang to suit themselves and line their collective pockets ( from the bottom right up in their society) - which is fine - but that also works both ways and once you realise that all the fake smiles and the bullshit that goes with it is exactly that - bullshit - ( certainly in Pattaya and the like anyway) then that was what I meant about the rose tinted glasses falling off ( quite a while ago now in my case).

Actually I've refrained from posting anything of this nature of late as I didn't want to rain on anyone else parade who WAS thinking of booking their holiday, but I see there is another thread started on this very subject elsewhere too on the board ( sorry i should have posted this here perhaps - Moses, feel free to move this if you wish) so I thought "why not" now.

I also got bored of all the "what your name, where you from" constant nonsense and having few if any conversations that raised above that and or having to "tip" a guy just for sitting talking to them for five minutes in a bar, or paying just to grope his balls in some dirty bar ( and I mean that in a hygiene way not sex way) which to be frank all just started to seem a bit needy and desperate ( no offence intended to anyone here re that by the way) and thankfully I'm not at the stage where that's my only option in life when it comes to sitting in dirty bars groping cock - but for free lol.

Also as I've gotten a bit older and wiser and see some of the games the guys have royally played on some farang on Facebook that I know where they have ran rings around them, cleaned them out and moved on I thank god that I WAS the harsh butterfly that I was and had the good wit to take it all with a pinch of salt and just shag and go - a lot, but even then on my last few trips I felt like I was ending up shagging just out of something to DO and shagging boredom was almost setting in ( I NEVER thought I'd live to hear myself saying that but it was true) and to then come home and look at my bank statement and have the usual that just cost "HOW MUCH" conversation with myself, then I thought "ok, time to stop and take stock as to why I'm still going there so much" I think.

But, when I decide I need to go back for some sun, to overpay for watered down drinks and to have fairly banal conversations and to have to lock up my wallet and or watch out for the police / locals scamming / robbing me and all JUST so I can get a fuck or ten then no doubt I'll be back, but in the meantime .......not so much.......but like I said who knows what July or certainly probably Christmas will bring and perhaps now that I've vented my spleen I will go back a fresh and with new tinted glasses, all re polished and firmly in place - who knows.

[scottish-guy]

Ok NIrish - your spleen has been well and truly vented - and I wouldn't deny that scamming happens all over the world and in some places far more than others. BTW I got well and truly scammed in Birmingham just last week by an extremely plausible woman in a very expensive car with her child in tow - but that's another story.

However, in the case you cite there wasn't really any scamming involved - they broke the rules of their work permit and even though you and they may consider it a minor matter or in aid of a laudable cause, it clearly was considered to be neither by the authorities - and let's be honest here, you or I (or anybody sensible who knows how the system fucks you over) would have realised that in advance.

On the matter of the teachers, yes sure we may consider that "something is better than nothing" but it isn't our country and we have no right whatsoever to make that call. Education and how it's delivered is entirely a matter for the Thai authorities and if they have decided that they don't want enthusiastic amateurs educating their kids then I'm rather afraid that's their call - however short sighted we may believe it to be.

[Nirish guy]

Well if you think the neighbour being able to pay the police to have good natured (non paid) hard working farang, working for a charity arrested and deported just because they don't like them ( shades of you know who at his best come to mind there) OR for the farang to then have to repay their way back out of trouble to the local immigration officer to let them go again isn't a some form of a scam ( albeit not in the true sense of the word but a disgrace none the less) then we'll have to just disagree re that.

And again whilst I totally agree the Government should be and ARE fully responsible for teaching english etc, if they're not then I STILL think those kids getting SOME lessons, no matter how basic, IS better than nothing to give them even half a fighting chance in life.

Oh and PS I TOO was scammed last week in Birmingham at PRIDE where one of the pride beer tent bars tried to over charge us by £2.50 each for 4 beers as it was "night time prices' - the bar owner was chancing his arm and got told in no uncertain times to fuck off and told where he could stick the four pints he'd already just poured. So, yes scamming happens everywhere go course, on that we can agree.

[anonone]

Well, newalaan...I don't know about you but now I am more jazzed then ever to be back in Thailand for those late night venues. LOL

:o

[Nirish guy]

Ha sorry anon, both for unintentionally hijacking your thread and giving you the downer I was always trying to avoid giving others. The only saving grace is I KNOW that no matter what me current thinking I KNOW you will go out there and have a blast in all the latest cool and hip night venues - where are they anyway these days - anyone know ?? (There, right back on track :-) sorry :-)

[anonone]

No worries from me. Just couldn't resist giving you a bit of a tweak.

As you and newalaan both know, I really only visited Tam Nam Isan on past trips. Maybe now I will venture out, meet some new guys, and end up trying out some of the other places. I used to hit one of the "Western" clubs once a trip (NAB/DAVE/IDOL), but haven't even done that in a couple years. Ex BF used to like to pop into some of the places on Walking Street, mainly for a change of pace every once in while. Mix was probably the best of the lot, but really none of them were my speed.

Looking forward to some reporting from newalaan on his late-night reconnaissance patrols for inspiration.

[fountainhall]

Incidentally, I also think that children should be taught by professional teachers, and not by enthusiastic amateurs
I agree entirely. But there comes a point in most language learning when conversation with an English-speaker supplements what is being learned in class. Way back when I was in school we had secondments from young German and French native speakers to assist purely with conversation - not as teachers.

The present policy here re teachers is a disaster. I have recounted before an encounter I had at Siam BTS with a lady who happened to be African-American from the deep south. She was in quite a tizz having tried to get any of the station staff to direct her to Siam Paragon. After her rant about how terrible the country was and how impossible it was for anyone to understand English, I pointed out the store just beyond the platform. We then started a short chat. I asked her if she was on holiday. No, she was working - as an English teacher for 3 months! As even I was having a little difficulty understanding her, I can only guess how little her school pupils understood of what she was saying. It was of course not her fault. She had no doubt been recommended by some philanthropic organisation in the USA and the Thai government was delighted to not have to pay her salary. But the fact is that her English must have been as incomprehensible to young Thais as would someone with a very strong South African, Scottish, Irish - any number of strong accents. Until the Education Department is able to engage teachers who can actually help youngsters with basic English comprehension, I think there are lot of expats who would be more effective in general conversation situations. But of course it will never be allowed to happen!

[Nirish guy]

Ha not wanting to back track here but I found myself so bored of the same 15 boy bars on one of my last trips that I ended up on Walking street and found myself going into one of the lady go go bars there and had an absolute BLAST :-)

After the first five minutes of "no honestly ladies I'm gay I'm not offing you, but hey lets all chill out and relax and have a drink on me and if you need to go sit with a customer or dance etc then no problem go and come back.

So, there ended up me about about half the ladies of the bar ( much to the annoyance of the str8 guys :-) all drinking and having a real laugh together, talking about life and their customers ( and how shit they all were I seem to recall them saying :-) and I seem to recall that my tab also ended up about half of what it would have been in any boy bar when I was done - so yes, for sure give Walking street a go - even if you weren't thinking of a lady bar perhaps, it was a refreshing change and broke up the boredom a bit !

(And no I'm not for turning before anyone suggests it, although hey, labels labels, I couldn't care less what others think, if I want to nail someone I'll nail then and to hell with the labels :)

Actually I'm damned annoyed that I'm NOT there perhaps when you're there now as a "free man" - as you and I out together,with you untethered and with a few Baht bursting out of our pockets from our holiday funds, would I'm guessing have been one hell of a party ( as always x 100 perhaps !!! :-)

[newalaan2]

well, newalaan...I don't know about you but now I am more jazzed to be back in Thailand for those late night venues: look forward to some reporting from newalaan on his late-night reconnaissance patrols for inspiration
Yes Nirish has done his bit to help the anticipation...rain on parade??...as if ha! Will certainly be willing to get around, but like you when you've had a couple of nips and it's time to get down to decision about where you are most likely to guarantee a fun night 9 out of 10 times it's Tam Nan Issan for me too! Bf and friends keep me balanced with NAB, Hollywood, Walking St etc... though.



Actually I've refrained from posting anything of this nature of late as I didn't want to rain on anyone else parade who WAS thinking of booking their holiday, but I see there is another thread started on this very subject elsewhere too on the board ( sorry i should have posted this here perhaps - Moses, feel free to move this if you wish) so I thought "why not" now.

No chance of raining on any of my Thailand trip parades so no problem there! and also no problem posting this on this thread but it's a good subject and relevant post and the subject could easily make a good thread on it's own rather than being lost in this bar scene thread.

Much of what you say in your post strikes a cord with many of us who visit regularly. Have to admit I was washed out with the party/club/karaoke/different partner every night...repeat...repeat... a few years ago after about a decade of it. I really had a great time while doing it, but during that time I visited other parts of Bkk and Thailand sometimes mixing with guys outside the pay-for-sex scene in Bkk and travelling to other provinces and using Pattaya really just as the 'letting steam out' part of the overall visits. I could never spend a whole trip to Thailand in Pattaya, and have never done so. I always split the trips between Chiang mai, Phuket, Bkk, Issan, other cities in Thailand with Pattaya for the drink and fun scene. So while I'm every bit as cynical as you with some aspects of Thailand I really don't find the same hard edge Pattaya-attitude when travelling around the country, even outside of Silom/suriwong I find attitudes in other Bkk areas are different. In the world outside Pattaya and the farang enclaves scamming/duping/rip-offs goes on everywhere except it's nearly all Thai-on-Thai!

As for the trait of grassing/reporting, I have mentioned in previous long worded posts that is one of the main reasons Police get involved in any action around the bfs village/town in Issan where spiteful/wronged/jealous thais get their own back by reporting neighbours/former friends/lovers and even family as retribution, and if a farang happened to upset the wrong person they would too. So I see/experience far more examples of Thais targeting other Thais than farang.

I thinks it's always good to have alternative interest to engage in when visiting, like travelling around, and I have made quite a few friends with Thai musicians in various places including Pattaya over the years and always had catch up time outwith the sex-scene over the years......trading new songs, lyrics, music info etc, and find this kept/keeps my visit varied and has helped keep my interest and will to return over 16 years. Settling with my bf certainly also help change the way I enjoy Thailand too, something I never expect or planned to do but glad it happened. We have an understanding, are exclusive to each other and are together when I visit. he gets on with his life in Thailand back in Issan with his shop/family farming business and land to oversee when I'm away and I get on with my life back home, we keep in touch daily and for the moment suits both of our agendas/needs as he is well capable of making his own way. We discuss/talk regularly if the current set up still suits both of us and for the last 7 years or so, it has. I did enjoy the variety of one-night stands in the past, but bfs 'continual demands' are more than enough for me to contend with nowadays! ha!

[colmx]

Its 4 weeks since i got back from Thailand so my info could be out of date already... but anyway:


NAB is getting approx half loads Sun-Thurs and busy fri-Sat, saw a huge rat there one night during Songkran, seems the water drove him out of his hidey hole


TNI is about the same, but always great value... until the food menu appears!


ID/Idol has re-opened as Muze, we gave it a shot one night and lasted maybe an hour before heading to TNI.
They have done a lovely job on the place, but the guys working there "models" are simply chubby karaoke boys... The night we were there they had only 10 boys, but their FB pics would seem to indicate they have more. BF reckons the models are good style for Ladyboys to like...
This was affirmed by the fact that 70% of the customers were LBs.
Lolo and the Tiffany gang from Dave are now doing shows there... a bit more contemporary than they used to be in Dave and was actually enjoyable.
3809
Mixers were 60B each for the 330ml Soda (verus the normal 500Ml soda bottle elsewhere) which was a bit of a rip off
They are still using the ID FB page: https://www.facebook.com/idclubpattaya
3805


Bone has opened in north Pattaya, just up the road from Differ/Hollywood. Never made it there but some boys that i spoke to tell me they go there regularly. Plus the ex manager of Dave is manager there... so probably has attracted some of their customers.
Its a straight place, and unlike Hollywood has no show. Mostly "international" DJs.


Hollywood is still getting the crowds, mostly Chinese "pandas" and their girls, but there is always a fair smattering of gay guys on the tables around.
They also seem to have guest DJs these days, who play on the stage instead of the DJ box, MC Sumo's gig in Hollywood was the highlight of all nights out on last trip for me
https://www.facebook.com/armMCsumo
3807

Tumnanchon was busy when we went on a Sat night, but only half full when we went mid week. The cute singer is still working there and makes it worth a visit!


Pluag mai seems to have lost their customer base completely, we didn't even go inside this trip as could see from the car park that it was empty
So enclosing the front and having it aircon'ed does not seem to have stopped the rot


The are a load of "chill" pubs on 3rd road that are always busy every night and very late
Seems that the current trend is more for unplugged acoustic songs and chats around a seated table is the new fashionable thing for Thais to do - instead of standing at a table listening to booming music.
Even Tumnanchon have opened a chill bar next door to try and cash in on this trend
The Chill pubs remind my BF of Irish pubs (aka Boring for him!)

That's all i can think of (for now) - will be back again at end of August so looking forward to the interim updates!

[arsenal]

For all the (quite frankly fucking obvious) reasons you can't have any old farang ex-pat pitch up and teach the local school children a few phrases of English because he's got a few hours to spare.

[newalaan2]

Its 4 weeks since i got back from Thailand so my info could be out of date already... but anyway:

Pluag mai seems to have lost their customer base completely, we didn't even go inside this trip as could see from the car park that it was empty. So enclosing the front and having it aircon'ed does not seem to have stopped the rot

But still far more up to date than anything else posted here recently, so thanks for that.

Pluang Mai was more than half empty on a weekend night back in February, I'm afraid that format is all but dead. The main players in the provinces like Seng Jan and Tawan daeng still get away with it because they are the only big venues in some towns, but they have to change the format to include pop/indie/rock bands and DJ sets. But even 2-3 years ago when we used to visit Ayutthaya frequently there were 3 very large venues very close to each other, the 'live folk rock' bands were demoted to the 9 to 11pm slots, and the younger pop/rock/indie bands were top heading 11pm-2am followed by the DJ set at 2-3am when everyone was totally pissed. All 3 venues ran the same format, and they were packed after 11pm. But really the Caraobao/folk rock scene has also virtually died away too. I have a guitar when in Thailand and any sing-alongs in previous years carabao/ponsit kumpee/maleehuanna were always the requested songs, not now...it's rare to find a request for one or two of the 'old stuff'. Carabao etc still get good concert audiences because of their reputation and its a good excuse for a drunken night out, but they are not 'in vogue' now. Fortunately some of the young bands and the indie scene music is great. They also like to cover indie/pop British music which is in demand.

As above we usually set aside a night at the live music bar down from Step Up, always great bands and a good time there, and it's just a jump over to NAB to finish the night off.

IDOL has never been on the bfs/friends list, but we'll see if there are any requests for Muze now I know it exists and where. Up the North end of Pattaya is ok for a night out as venues are very close, we used to occasionally hit Stardice and if not great could switch to Hollywood or TNI so easily without much time loss. With former Dave manager at 'Bone' another new name for me, there might be a request for there, again I'm fine to check out a place up North and if not much fun can switch to elsewhere.

The food menu at TNI is often the only means I have of getting agreement from all to move there if I get bored with Hollywood DJs. Bf always puts up resistance but is always first with face in the menu and first up at the opening strains of any morlam song.

Great pics and post colmx.

[Dalewood]

I agree entirely. But there comes a point in most language learning when conversation with an English-speaker supplements what is being learned in class. Way back when I was in school we had secondments from young German and French native speakers to assist purely with conversation - not as teachers.

The present policy here re teachers is a disaster. I have recounted before an encounter I had at Siam BTS with a lady who happened to be African-American from the deep south. She was in quite a tizz having tried to get any of the station staff to direct her to Siam Paragon. After her rant about how terrible the country was and how impossible it was for anyone to understand English, I pointed out the store just beyond the platform. We then started a short chat. I asked her if she was on holiday. No, she was working - as an English teacher for 3 months! As even I was having a little difficulty understanding her, I can only guess how little her school pupils understood of what she was saying. It was of course not her fault. She had no doubt been recommended by some philanthropic organisation in the USA and the Thai government was delighted to not have to pay her salary. But the fact is that her English must have been as incomprehensible to young Thais as would someone with a very strong South African, Scottish, Irish - any number of strong accents. Until the Education Department is able to engage teachers who can actually help youngsters with basic English comprehension, I think there are lot of expats who would be more effective in general conversation situations. But of course it will never be allowed to happen!

Did you ask her how much Thai she studied before she came? I have no sympathy for my fellow Americans who go abroad and then complain no one can speak English.

[anonone]

Actually I'm damned annoyed that I'm NOT there perhaps when you're there now as a "free man" - as you and I out together,with you untethered and with a few Baht bursting out of our pockets from our holiday funds, would I'm guessing have been one hell of a party ( as always x 100 perhaps !!! :-)

There is still time to buy a ticket. LOL
Let me know when you decide to venture back to the LOS. I have several more trips in mind this year...depending on how this one goes.


Its 4 weeks since i got back from Thailand so my info could be out of date already... but anyway:






But still far more up to date than anything else posted here recently, so thanks for that.

Great pics and post colmx.

Colmx:. I agree with newalaan. Much thanks for the update, including the pics.

It does seem like the staff at Muze is much more reminiscent of Karaoke and not Coyote.

Great to have an overview of the scene. I am not going in with any plans, just have to see where the butterfly takes me.

Cheers.

[goji]

Did you ask her how much Thai she studied before she came? I have no sympathy for my fellow Americans who go abroad and then complain no one can speak English.
Generally, the capability of people around the world to speak English as a second language is improving markedly. Even in France.
Now we're getting people all over the world who learnt English as a second language and their kids are learning English. In some cases, they speak to their kids in both their home language & English, so the kids grow up bilingual. In many others, the youngsters can come home from school and converse with their (educated) parents in English. In Japan, Korea or wherever.

As for Thailand, well I think some of the Thai rent boys I know could do a better job of teaching English than the Afro-American you describe.
Another fine example of SE Asian English capability was DiDi in Phonm Penh, who could keep people @ Blue Chilli enthralled for a couple of hours with stories of his exploits in English. I've no idea where he went to, but I reckon he could teach English. And keep the class interested.

As for us, well I learn 1 foreign language and the capability slowly withers, as every time I ask a question in German, they answer in English.

[Dalewood]

As for us, well I learn 1 foreign language and the capability slowly withers, as every time I ask a question in German, they answer in English.

That sounds like me in Montreal a few years ago. I guess you can not study a language and then try to use it forty years later :-)