The perfect off.

[arsenal]

So many times I read about offs not living up to expectations. Here is a simple plan to ensure success.
1) Tell the boy what you are hoping for before you off him. Make it clear what you want.
2) If he says he doesn't............then don't pressure him either in the bar or the room.
3) Tell him how much you will tip him.
4) Unless you've stipulated he must come (see 1) then don't demand it and don't insult him if he doesn't. (I know for a fact many do.)
5) Do invite him to have a drink from the mini bar. He is your guest. (My rule is NO alcohol, not even beer if they're on a motorbike.)
6) Pay him nicely. Thank him for his time and assuming you've enjoyed your time with him tell him.
7) Give him a nice kiss goodbye, even if you drop him of right outside his bar. Gay or straight assuming you've followed the above rules he won't mind a bit.
8) Next time you go into the bar, if you don't off him again then give him 20/40 baht. It's nothing to you and shows you thought he was a good off. It also buys him dinner.

[latintopxxx]

...why thats exactly how I operate...now if only the damn stoopid MB would understand that when they say yes to my question " you to everything??"....that I mean everything!!!

[arsenal]

Everything is a very loose term Latinpox. Have your requirements translated into Thai and get them to sign it before you of them. I don't know what the Thai is for 'I want you to act like a dog while I fuck you senceless" but I'm sure you can find out. My post above was meant for normal people and specifically excludes psychos, deviants and you.

[fountainhall]

So many times I read about offs not living up to expectations. Here is a simple plan to ensure success.
1) Tell the boy what you are hoping for before you off him. Make it clear what you want.
2) If he says he doesn't............then don't pressure him either in the bar or the room.
Your recipe certainly works most of the time. But I have sometimes experienced offs who have said they are happy to do what I asked. Then when we get down to it they say they can't. It has never really concerned me as I will never insist on it and I'm almost always still able to have a good time. And even in those few cases I do give them a little extra tip when I next see them. It happened some years ago with a boy from Classic who I suspect was new to the game. A year or so later he turned up in one of those Private Boy Movies being pounded ceaselessly!

But I have rarely agreed a specific tip for services in advance. I know roughly what the going rates are and will always tip a bit above. What really annoys me is the handful of occasions when I have given a good tip and the boy then asks for another Bt. 500 or more. That just takes some of the enjoyment out of the evening. I guess it's as good a reason as any for an agreement in advance.

[latintopxxx]

fountain u really are far too soft...and as for not agreeing on the tip beforehand is NUTS...

[fountainhall]

as for not agreeing on the tip beforehand is NUTS...
Rebuke accepted in the spirit in which it was given.

[justaguy]

I am not the type of person who would "off" a guy. But the way I see this kind of thing is, you agree on a price beforehand, the tip is optional and based upon performance and satisfaction I would say 555

[fountainhall]

Problem is that in Thailand you cannot agree a "price" in advance because that then becomes prostitution. Tipping is technically a way around the law. But of course what is legally correct is rarely followed!

[arsenal]

That is exactly how I do it. In the bar I treat it the same as I would any business transaction. That way when we get back to the room it isn't. It helps if you're an addicted offer such as me. I've offed boys from virtually every bar over the last few years and obviously they all report back to each other. So good reports does make your next off, even with a different boy a little easier. What, you didn't think they all gossip about you? Think again.

[francois]

I am not the type of person who would "off" a guy. But the way I see this kind of thing is, you agree on a price beforehand, the tip is optional and based upon performance and satisfaction I would say 555

Not quite sure what you mean? You agree on a price but a tip is optional? Do you mean an extra tip above and beyond the agreed on price? 555 Baht is your tip ? 55555

[lukylok]

What, you didn't think they all gossip about you? Think again.

I couldn't agree more. They know all about you, your preferences, and what they can expect. And if you treat them fair or not.

[justaguy]

Problem is that in Thailand you cannot agree a "price" in advance because that then becomes prostitution. Tipping is technically a way around the law. But of course what is legally correct is rarely followed!

Yeah prostitution is illegal in Thailand. But of course that law was never enforced, unless of course you forgot to pay tea money or pissed off the wrong people.

Technically speaking tipping someone for sex is no different than agreeing on a price beforehand. Not sure why anyone would want to get around prostitution being illegal. At the end of the day, you already paid the off fee, so you are going with a prostitute.

[justaguy]

Not quite sure what you mean? You agree on a price but a tip is optional? Do you mean an extra tip above and beyond the agreed on price? 555 Baht is your tip ? 55555


I didn't know a tip was the actual price of the service, as fountainhall explained to me a few posts up. I did say I never off boys, so naturally I don't tip either, I simply forgot a comma :)

[fountainhall]

At the end of the day, you already paid the off fee, so you are going with a prostitute.
Since we're talking about technicalities and legal niceties, I'm not sure that is correct. The off fee is a payment to the bar because it is then denied the boy's services on stage for a period of time. What goes on between you and the boy thereafter is - technically - not the bar's business! You might just be taking the boy out for a nice dinner! On the other hand, you might just have other thoughts on your mind ;);)

[latintopxxx]

oh what nonsense, we ALL know prostitution is supposedly illegal but yet we have walking street?!?! Go figure!! Now back to reality, u agree on a price and the services required, and if u want u can tip over and above this if the service provided wows u. Has only happened twice with me....

[AsDaRa]

I know roughly what the going rates are and will always tip a bit above.

Some Farang are like you, they don't talk about the tip beforehand, the boy doesn't mention it also, and the Farang thinks then: "lucky me, this Thai boy wants me for free".

You have the decency to pay the boy. Some Farang apparently truly think the boy wanted sex for free with them. I read often topics in these forums about a Farang who writes how he scored a boy for free. In most of these cases I am inclined to think it was really a scenario you described. The boy expected money, but didn't talk about it. Maybe because of fear for the prostitution law? Maybe because he is shy to bring it up?

Some Farang profit from it. Or they do pay, but far less than the boy expected. I know a boy who spend 3 days with a Farang in south Thailand (Farang paid for plane ticket) and after the 3 days he got 3000 baht in cash. He was disappointed. But that is the risk if you not talk about money beforehand. Some Farang profit from it and for me it is a form of abuse.

[justaguy]

Some Farang are like you, they don't talk about the tip beforehand, the boy doesn't mention it also, and the Farang thinks then: "lucky me, this Thai boy wants me for free".

You have the decency to pay the boy. Some Farang apparently truly think the boy wanted sex for free with them. I read often topics in these forums about a Farang who writes how he scored a boy for free. In most of these cases I am inclined to think it was really a scenario you described. The boy expected money, but didn't talk about it. Maybe because of fear for the prostitution law? Maybe because he is shy to bring it up?

Some Farang profit from it. Or they do pay, but far less than the boy expected. I know a boy who spend 3 days with a Farang in south Thailand (Farang paid for plane ticket) and after the 3 days he got 3000 baht in cash. He was disappointed. But that is the risk if you not talk about money beforehand. Some Farang profit from it and for me it is a form of abuse.

Interesting to say the least. I would assume if you off a boy from one of those bars on Twilight, payment is required. Now if you hook up with a guy from say a normal bar, that payment suddenly becomes not so natural. I for one would never, and I repeat never go with someone who expects payment. I wasn't looking for a prostitute, so why would someone suddenly believe I would pay for a quick fuck ?

I have never paid for sex in Thailand, having said that, I only ever had sex with about three persons (maybe four).

[Mancs]

And what about boys who say on dating sites that they are not money boys? Are we supposed to assume that (TIT) they are money boys? I think the price needs to be agreed before sex. Otherwise we have no idea how much they are expecting.

[Oliver]

Before I made my first trip to Pattaya twenty years ago, I read an excellent gay guide (with a beautiful Thai guy on the cover) by Michael Nottcutt. His advice proved to be excellent. He said that the Thai bar-boys did not wish to discuss payment before the off. I should emphasise that he was not encouraging mean conduct from the falang, only respect for Thai norms.
Accordingly, as a newbie, I followed his advice on this issue paid the guys I met afterwards. That has remained my M.O. I have never seen any reason to change. I can recall a only a couple of requests for more in my seventy plus visits.
To clarify, I give the average amount with a small extra for motor-cy taxi and some for food... that's a total of 1300 in Pattaya and 1500 in Bangkok. Short-time only and obviously no unusual demands. Drinks from the fridge of course and also of course, courtesy.
This has been successful and I get as many repeats as I want and so see no reason to change. Nevertheless, I fully understand the views of others and would probably recommend today's newbies to follow their example rather than mine.

[francois]

. Now if you hook up with a guy from say a normal bar, that payment suddenly becomes not so natural.
I have never paid for sex in Thailand, having said that, I only ever had sex with about three persons (maybe four).

Can you define "normal bar"? Not sure just what that means, at least, here in Thailand. Beer bars/host bars are pay for play same as go-go bars. I suppose in discos there are opportunities for free sex if one is "attractive".

[cdnmatt]

Can you define "normal bar"?

99.5% of the bars in Thailand outside of Pattaya?

You know, a bar. A place where for example, after work you head to with a few of your co-workers to enjoy a few beers or glasses of wine, and unwind from the day.

[fountainhall]

Before I made my first trip to Pattaya twenty years ago, I read an excellent gay guide (with a beautiful Thai guy on the cover) by Michael Nottcutt. His advice proved to be excellent. He said that the Thai bar-boys did not wish to discuss payment before the off. I should emphasise that he was not encouraging mean conduct from the falang, only respect for Thai norms.
That is certainly what I was told even well before that book was published and like Oliver it has always been my M.O. I think those living here and very regular visitors are pretty much aware of the acceptable tip rates in Bangkok and Pattaya and the boys are in almost all cases perfectly happy with that plus a bit on top. However, the scene has changed considerably over the decades and I can see that agreeing (or indeed not agreeing) in advance will avoid any possible unpleasantness.

As for the comment made by Mancs, I find in Bangkok that most money boys on dating sites let you know that they are looking for cash within a couple of minutes of a conversation starting up. Most, though, are not. Pattaya seems to be quite different with certainly a majority being money boys.

[AsDaRa]

Interesting to say the least. I would assume if you off a boy from one of those bars on Twilight, payment is required.


Yes, but example I gave was not a bar hook up, but dating app. In bar it is almost impossible to get away without paying.
Many Farang these days use dating apps and in some cases the tip is not discussed at all. The boy just hopes for the best. Some Farang think however they have a free boy.

[latintopxxx]

i'm completely gobsmacked at some of the statements.

justagay has had sex with only 3 or 4 guys???? Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do that on an average day at babylon??!!
or is he just trolling.

As for assuming that sex on dating apps is free....really!!! Do these people live under a rock??

[fountainhall]

As for assuming that sex on dating apps is free....really!!! Do these people live under a rock??
Just because you always pay does not mean that there are not many, many guys on the various apps who want to meet up with older farang in Bangkok. I have only once paid for a guy from the apps - because the guys I meet are not in the commercial sex business and do not want cash, even though I always offer enough for taxis. It is not always taken! That said, I have no idea about Pattaya as I rarely go there.

[AsDaRa]

Just because you always pay does not mean that there are not many, many guys on the various apps who want to meet up with older farang in Bangkok. I have only once paid for a guy from the apps - because the guys I meet are not in the commercial sex business and do not want cash, even though I always offer enough for taxis. It is not always taken! That said, I have no idea about Pattaya as I rarely go there.

I think most young guys age 18-25 are expecting money in the apps. I am not sure what your type of guy is, but if you regularly date 30 year olds, then yes I am convinced most of them don't expect money, are real gays (and not gay for money) and like Farangs.

But a 20 year old dating for free a 50 year old Farang? It is possible. But also in Bangkok rare, isn't it? Or is this normal in Bangkok, in that age bracket?

But how do you know they are not into it for the money. Because you never bring the topic of money up before the action. So you just assume after all is done he not wants money because he was no bar boy? How can you know he doesn't want it, if it is never mentioned?

[cdnmatt]

That's getting into a grey area though, no? As for just one-night stand type sex, I really don't know, but I would imagine there's some younger guys out there who love getting their rocks off with an older gentleman, although probably few and far between. I really don't know... I'm no Brad Pitt, but I'm not 60 either. Plus I tend to stay away from the sex with strangers thing. It's kinda fun I guess, but gets very boring very quickly.

Anyway, what about love, companionship, security, stability, etc.? For example, take some 24 year old teacher who's sick and tired of constantly struggling, and just wants to go to sleep each night knowing everything is ok? I can easily see why they would prefer an older farang, but does that make him a money boy? If so, then we have to call about 80% of the women in the world gold diggers.

That, and from my experience, there's a lot of Thais out there basically in the same boat as a lot of farangs. A lot of us farangs end up in Thailand due to a failed relationship, and we're looking for something new / better. Same goes for some Thais. Sometimes they've been hurt, manipulated and taken advantage of so much in the past, maybe also have a failed Thai BF, that they want nothing to do with another Thai in regards to a relationship again. They then look towards farangs, think we may have a better moral compass, and would prefer a farang BF. In other words, they're willing to be lenient on looks and age in order to have someone who treats them properly.

I don't know, I'm rambling now... been hot in the past week with no rain, so sure enough, electric has been shit again, and my mind is slowing turning into mush again.

[fountainhall]

I think most young guys age 18-25 are expecting money in the apps
You are constantly reaching conclusions which have no basis in fact! Perhaps if you came and lived in Bangkok you would find out that your conclusion in this case is far from correct. Note, I state Bangkok. From what I have read I expect the situation in Pattaya is very different.

One of the facets of living in Asia which many people totally fail to understand is that there is quite a significant number of young men in their early 20s who genuinely want to meet up with farang who are a great deal older without any monetary reward. This is true not just in Thailand, but in quite a number of other countries. On this forum I have frequently waxed lyrical about Taiwan where I shall be headed later in the month for a couple of weeks. Is money involved when I meet guys from the apps? Not at all, although I will usually take guys I meet more than once out for a nice dinner. Another of this forum's posters became interested and started visiting Taipei. He has posted about those visits and now makes long trips there several times a year.

I'll also be visiting Tokyo late next week. I once lived there for two years. I have already set up a couple of meetings with young guys through the apps. Will money be involved? Absolutely not. In Japan it would be regarded as an insult even to offer - unless the guy comes from a host bar.

I can give no reason why this should be, but it always makes me somewhat annoyed that others, such as AsDaRa, express their disbelief. Two of my close friends here in Bangkok are farang. Both are now married to their much younger Thai partners. Is money involved. Again, absolutely not. In fact, in one case, the young Thai man now in his mid-30s after a relationship lasting 13 years had his own company even before meeting his partner. That company is now a worldwide business. The difference in ages - more than 30 years.

[AsDaRa]

I can give no reason why this should be, but it always makes me somewhat annoyed that others, such as AsDaRa, express their disbelief.

I believe you 100%. Now, after your explanation. I will move my focus to Bangkok in my next holidays. Will save me a lot of money.

Too bad in Western Europe, were I spend 99.999% of my time, it is rare a 20 year old wants to have sex with a 50 year old if money is not involved. Even in the hetero world. Of course there are exceptions, but it is rare. I start to think it is culture. In Western European culture youth is very important. In Asian cultures there is a lot of respect for the older generations (they are brought up like that more). Maybe there lies part of the explanation. The older generation is not 'written off'.

[francois]

99.5% of the bars in Thailand outside of Pattaya?

You know, a bar. A place where for example, after work you head to with a few of your co-workers to enjoy a few beers or glasses of wine, and unwind from the day.


Still confused! Earlier you posted

"Quote Originally Posted by justaguy
. Now if you hook up with a guy from say a normal bar, that payment suddenly becomes not so natural.


So does that mean, outside of Pattaya, in 99.5 % of the bars you may be able to hook up with a guy and payment is is not a requirement? Is this all bars or gay bars?

I do believe you are quite wrong in your assessment.

[fountainhall]

I believe you 100%.
Thank you. I will only add one small comment. If you do base yourself in Bangkok, remember that many of the guys who may wish to meet up with you will either be students or have jobs. If you go to the bars or chat with money boys, you can have an instant hook-up. With the non-commercial guys, you will almost certainly need more time. So, change your location to Bangkok a few days before you depart for Thailand and start chatting. I also find some guys will approach you whereas you will also have to send messages to those you like. Responses may not be instant but do not give up.

As for your comments about Europe, I agree 100%. Yet on my most recent trip to the UK and Germany for 3 weeks last summer, I was again amazed that a handful of young Asians in their 20s and based in the main cities actually contacted me. One Japanese not far from Munich I would loved to have met, but I was not on my own and did not have that possibility.

[justaguy]

Can you define "normal bar"? Not sure just what that means, at least, here in Thailand. Beer bars/host bars are pay for play same as go-go bars. I suppose in discos there are opportunities for free sex if one is "attractive".

Normal bars as in Telephone, Sake, Welcome just to name a few. And one doesn't necessarily have to be attractive either.

Above bars and clubs are in Bangkok, I don't know the gay scene in Pattaya.

[justaguy]

i'm completely gobsmacked at some of the statements.

justagay has had sex with only 3 or 4 guys???? Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do that on an average day at babylon??!!
or is he just trolling.

As for assuming that sex on dating apps is free....really!!! Do these people live under a rock??

In Thailand...

I have had a relationship for the past 12 years, in which I remained loyal until a few months ago. That was the second guy, the others where prior to that relationship. Maybe it IS good to point out that I never went to Thailand to get laid.

[goji]

But I have rarely agreed a specific tip for services in advance. I know roughly what the going rates are and will always tip a bit above. What really annoys me is the handful of occasions when I have given a good tip and the boy then asks for another Bt. 500 or more. That just takes some of the enjoyment out of the evening. I guess it's as good a reason as any for an agreement in advance.

I also don't agree a specific tip in advance. If I am using the main bars, well their boys know what the going rate is and I don't feel the need to discuss it in advance.
If they raise the subject, I will quote the minimum going rate, with the proviso that I pay more if they are good. The majority will get a little more.

If I'm using Planet Romeo, however the price will be discussed up front. Again, minimum going rate, with the intention of paying more if things go well.

[Faranglaw]

Rebuke accepted in the spirit in which it was given.

And what spirit might that be,hmm?

[fountainhall]

And what spirit might that be,hmm?
The finest Highland Park Single Malt from the island of Orkney! ;)

[fountainhall]

I will only add one small comment. If you do base yourself in Bangkok, remember that many of the guys who may wish to meet up with you will either be students or have jobs.
I should have added another point here. When money is mentioned on the Boards, it usually concerns off tees and tips. Yet I know some posters consider any payment when meeting a boy a "money transaction". So let me clarify.

I have two little rules when I meet someone from the apps. When I arrange a first meeting, it is never at my home. I'll go meet him at the nearest BTS or MRT station and then take him for a coffee or a drink. I pay for that because I want to use that time to try and get to know him a little. Although I have a small safe in my home, there are still lots of things around of personal value that any visitor could find a way of pocketing. I am no mind-reader but that first meeting at least gives me a chance of sizing someone up and I have never had anything taken from my flat.

Secondly, I live near the centre of the city and most guys I meet come from quite far out. Given that we'll usually meet up in the evening, no-one is going to suffer a bus in rush hour and so they'll have motorcy fees plus BTS/MRT tickets. I always insist I pay for these for both trips. And if they leave here after around 11:00pm, I'll offer a taxi fare to get them home quickly. To me that is only fair, as it would cost me that and more to get to their place. If that makes the meeting a money transaction, then I can't argue. But the amounts are tiny compared to taking someone off from a bar.

[francois]

Normal bars as in Telephone, Sake, Welcome just to name a few. And one doesn't necessarily have to be attractive either.

Above bars and clubs are in Bangkok, I don't know the gay scene in Pattaya.

Ok, now that you mentioned those bars I understand about "normal" but gay bars. In Pattaya there are a number of normal straight bars where guys, and sometimes their ladies, go to drink and socialize. However not too many normal gay bars that I can think of. There is Dick's Cafe in Jomtien Complex and perhaps Colonial Bar in Sunee Plaza and Panorama in Boyztown where there are no host boys,per se.

Nonetheless, I don't believe anyone goes to these places in search of a free hook-up.

[justaguy]

Ok, now that you mentioned those bars I understand about "normal" but gay bars. In Pattaya there are a number of normal straight bars where guys, and sometimes their ladies, go to drink and socialize. However not too many normal gay bars that I can think of. There is Dick's Cafe in Jomtien Complex and perhaps Colonial Bar in Sunee Plaza and Panorama in Boyztown where there are no host boys,per se.

Nonetheless, I don't believe anyone goes to these places in search of a free hook-up.

Probably, and me myself never went to those places for a hook up either. Having said that, I did stumble upon quite a few free hookups over the years, even though I have always declined them.

[francois]

Probably, and me myself never went to those places for a hook up either. Having said that, I did stumble upon quite a few free hookups over the years, even though I have always declined them.

You are a saint amongst us sinners although, as penance, we perform Works of Mercy by feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty and clothing the naked (after we sinned).

[arsenal]

Thank you St Francois of Arse see see.. Well it's the best I could do.

[francois]

Assisi. Thou are forgiven,arsenal, go in peace and sin no more; for penance take thyself to a go-go bar and clothe the naked, bring them to your room and give drink and food and comfort them and ye shall be comforted.

[arsenal]

Francois: Maybe we shouldn't joke. Supposing it's all true. I complain like hell at immigration when I get stuck behind someone swarthy who takes ages to be allowed into Thailand. Imagine the queue at St Peters gate if you get stuck behind Latin.

[dinagam]

This is getting sacrilegious. Unpardonable!

[francois]

Francois: Maybe we shouldn't joke. Supposing it's all true. I complain like hell at immigration when I get stuck behind someone swarthy who takes ages to be allowed into Thailand. Imagine the queue at St Peters gate if you get stuck behind Latin.

Do not trouble yourself, arsenal, latintop will not be at St. Peter's gate!He will have an EZ pass straight to Hades, something like Pattaya.

[bazzabear]

i think this has been a brilliant post. very amusing and i think most guys on here have the right attitude towards there offs

[fountainhall]

latintop will not be at St. Peter's gate!He will have an EZ pass straight to Hades
With beachlover and kommentariat as the bouncers, Hades doesn't have an EZ pass system. I am reliably informed it has pretty strict guidelines and the queue is LONG! That bar is already full to overflowing with Neal stoking the flames! He'd probably have to wander around for a few decades in purgatory before being active again!

Kudos to St. Francois for using a Caravaggio painting.

[catawampuscat]

Francois not yet a saint but a good candidate. One of the nicest farangs around.

[arsenal]

Actually it's very unlikely that you'll find the French and the English together in any place that could be regarded as heaven. We don't even like sharing Europe with each other. This is, of course, entirely their fault.

[colmx]

So many times I read about offs not living up to expectations. Here is a simple plan to ensure success.
1) Tell the boy what you are hoping for before you off him. Make it clear what you want.
2) If he says he doesn't............then don't pressure him either in the bar or the room.
3) Tell him how much you will tip him.
4) Unless you've stipulated he must come (see 1) then don't demand it and don't insult him if he doesn't. (I know for a fact many do.)
5) Do invite him to have a drink from the mini bar. He is your guest. (My rule is NO alcohol, not even beer if they're on a motorbike.)
6) Pay him nicely. Thank him for his time and assuming you've enjoyed your time with him tell him.
7) Give him a nice kiss goodbye, even if you drop him of right outside his bar. Gay or straight assuming you've followed the above rules he won't mind a bit.
8) Next time you go into the bar, if you don't off him again then give him 20/40 baht. It's nothing to you and shows you thought he was a good off. It also buys him dinner.I do almost the exact opposite of this!
Never discuss what we are going to do, beyond "you like disco? What disco you like?"
Never discuss payment up front, never discuss sexual preferences up front
Just take off and go with the flow
Anybody that starts asking questions such as "how much you pay me" is quickly discarded
Worked for me and my BF for last 15 years now, and rarely have a bad off
If things don't work out the boy is sent back home with 500-1000B tip (depending on how bad/nice he was)
If things do work out we end up with 2/3/4some back in room after disco and usual tip is 1600-2000

[latintopxxx]

Really pay scant attention to this long list. My method works just fine for me. Has done so for the last 15 years so why should I change. Treat the MB like a disposable service provider whose sole purpose is to provide me with pleasure. His feelings/pleasure are not relevant. Its supposed to be a job for him.

[latintopxxx]

As for heaven...dont u twits realise that Jesus romped amongst the sinners, whores and tax collectors; I reckon I'm in good company.

[arsenal]

Oooohhh Latin's gone fishing again. I wonder if any little fishes will bite?

[christianpfc]

The boy expected money, but didn't talk about it. Maybe because of fear for the prostitution law? Maybe because he is shy to bring it up?

Some Farang profit from it. Or they do pay, but far less than the boy expected. I know a boy who spend 3 days with a Farang in south Thailand (Farang paid for plane ticket) and after the 3 days he got 3000 baht in cash. He was disappointed. But that is the risk if you not talk about money beforehand. Some Farang profit from it and for me it is a form of abuse.
When getting a boy from online, it's his duty to tell me he expects money, otherwise I assume sex is free. Now with hindsight, I had two or three boys (in 3 years) who might have expected money but didn't say so.

3000 Baht for 3 days holiday in southern Thailand doesn't sound bad to me, in low season I would even call it a great deal for the boy.

[christianpfc]

So many times I read about offs not living up to expectations. Here is a simple plan to ensure success.
1) Tell the boy what you are hoping for before you off him. Make it clear what you want.
2) If he says he doesn't............then don't pressure him either in the bar or the room.
3) Tell him how much you will tip him.
4) Unless you've stipulated he must come (see 1) then don't demand it and don't insult him if he doesn't. (I know for a fact many do.)
5) Do invite him to have a drink from the mini bar. He is your guest. (My rule is NO alcohol, not even beer if they're on a motorbike.)
6) Pay him nicely. Thank him for his time and assuming you've enjoyed your time with him tell him.
7) Give him a nice kiss goodbye, even if you drop him of right outside his bar. Gay or straight assuming you've followed the above rules he won't mind a bit.
8) Next time you go into the bar, if you don't off him again then give him 20/40 baht. It's nothing to you and shows you thought he was a good off. It also buys him dinner.

1) I don't discuss any details, I go with the flow when we are in bed. I'm quite flexible and easy to please. I want to get my hands and lips on his naked body, but that comes with the profession, I don't have to tell him.
2) see 1)
3) I never bring up money and I don't like when staff interferes. I know the going rate, he knows the going rate, and that's what I pay without saying anything at the end. In very few cases I give 100 Baht when everything was perfect.
4) Hard would be nice, but I don't care if he cums or not.
5) Yes, refrigerator in my case, water and maybe fruit juice. Offer cookies in addition. Often invite for dinner (street food).
6) see 3)
"Thank him for his time and assuming you've enjoyed your time with him tell him." I might try that next time.
7) Hug for goodbye in my room.
8) Actually I give 100 Baht to boys I had before if I don't take them again. I'm one of those who are slightly uncomfortable taking another boy when a boy I had before is on stage.


The boy expected money, but didn't talk about it. Maybe because of fear for the prostitution law? Maybe because he is shy to bring it up?

Some Farang profit from it. Or they do pay, but far less than the boy expected. I know a boy who spend 3 days with a Farang in south Thailand (Farang paid for plane ticket) and after the 3 days he got 3000 baht in cash. He was disappointed. But that is the risk if you not talk about money beforehand. Some Farang profit from it and for me it is a form of abuse.
When getting a boy from online, it's his duty to tell me he expects money, preferably as early as possible,* otherwise I assume sex is free. Now with hindsight, I had two or three boys (in 3 years) who might have expected money but didn't say so.

3000 Baht for 3 days holiday in southern Thailand doesn't sound bad to me, in low season I would even call it a great deal for the boy.

*In 2013 I met a boy in DJ station, he was staying in Sathorn and I was living far out at that time, so we went to his place. In his room, both of us undressed to underwear and started touching, he told me he is a moneyboy. I got dressed and said goodbye. (I would have paid for prime material, but if I had known he is a moneyboy from the beginning, I would not have gone with him.)

[AsDaRa]

3000 Baht for 3 days holiday in southern Thailand doesn't sound bad to me, in low season I would even call it a great deal for the boy.

For me it sounds bad. Considering there were at least 6 fucks in these three days if not more. And considering also that it is not just fuck and go, but 3 complete days. So it is not just long time by spending night with customer, you spend three complete days. That is very very long time.

So this boy got for many fucks and very very long time only 3000 baht in cash. That is very poor pay. That were some very cheap fucks for the Farang.

[francois]

So this boy got for many fucks and very very long time only 3000 baht in cash. That is very poor pay. That were some very cheap fucks for the Farang.

There are many cheap Farangs in Thailand.

[christianpfc]

I would assume the boy and farang know each other and get along well (I wouldn't take anyone for three days if I didn't know him and get along well). In my case it would be 2 or 3 times sex in total. A good deal for the boy, in my opinion. Of course it has to be discussed in advance.

[latintopxxx]

If the boy is silly enough to sail off into the sunset with a farang for 3 days and not negotiate a fee...and if the farang does likewise...well its a perfect recipe for mutual dissatisfaction. Stupid..stoopid..

[scottish-guy]

...Stupid..stoopid..

I knew Latin's post reminded me of something:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qro7oBzUBos

[newalaan2]

1)3000 Baht for 3 days holiday in southern Thailand doesn't sound bad to me, in low season I would even call it a great deal for the boy.

It has always been my understanding over the last decade+ that 'going rates' prevail and that the MINIMUM overnight/longtime rate has always been Bt1500, clearly if the boy is staying for 3 days away from home they would all come under 'overnight'...no?

I thought that even you, christianPFC expect 'going rates' to kick-in as the generally accepted norm, whether discussed beforehand or not, I'm sure that's what you have stated/agreed with in posts in the past.

Holidays for working boys while enjoyable I'm sure......don't pay the room rent or living expenses.

I agree with AsDaRa (even without considering the 'fuck' quota) it's still 3 complete days (and overnights).

[gerefan2]

Agreed 1500 for overnight. One night.
Reduces slightly if it is a long term off, not sure 3 days counts as long term tho.
Anything over a week or more should be considerably less than 1500.

[cdnmatt]

This off fee thing is kind of like a reversed bell curve, isn't it?

Start at just a night or two, and it's more -- say 1500 or 2000/night.
Go for a couple weeks, and it drops considerably -- say 700 or so per-day.
Get into a relationship that spans multiple years, and it magically goes up again, lol

[AsDaRa]

I think the Farang whom it concerns should recognize himself in this story. It happened a few weeks ago. You paid the ticket for that Pattaya boy to south Thailand and you spend 3 days with him there. The boy is 21, soon to be 22. There won't be that many Farang to whom this applies.

He should be - I would expect - among the readers of this forum. Love to hear his side of the story. Why you gave only 3000 baht to a beautiful Pattaya moneyboy, who gave you 3 days a good time? Why you thought that was fair pay and does not count as 'abuse'? I would love to hear it.

I assume most gay Farangs read these forums? 90% is a fair guess? So I think he must be out here somewhere :-)

[arsenal]

I agree with AsDaRa unless the amount was agreed beforehand. It is after all, low season. On my last trip I paid 1300 in Sunee and Jomtien and 1500 in Boyztown for a short time, However one evening it was 12.30 and I invited a boy from Sunee to come with me at 12,30 (bar closes at 1.00) for a couple of hours of very gentle sex/chat/coffee for 1000. He readily agreed knowing that the offer was quite reasonable considering we'd spend most of the time talking about football. Another reason why I love straight boys. I'd offed him before on that trip and paid the full 1300.

[scottish-guy]

Did he wear a football strip while fucking you?

I think we should be told

[christianpfc]

I thought that even you, christianPFC expect 'going rates' to kick-in as the generally accepted norm, whether discussed beforehand or not, I'm sure that's what you have stated/agreed with in posts in the past.
For first off of a boy I didn’t have before from a bar I adhere to the going rates, for future encounters I negotiate discounts.

I recall only two cases where I had a money boy for longer than one night. Both were not working in a bar at that time, so no issue with bar fines.

One was in Feb 2014, a boy who lives near Vientiane and who got 8000 Baht for 3 days 2 nights (from memory, could have been 4 days 3 nights at max) with me in Vientiane. This includes waiting for me a week (he would have gone to Pattaya a week before my arrival, so he told me). That was expensive, he got me in a weak moment, I wouldn't do it again.

The other one was in Apr 2016, a boy from Bangkok came with me to Hua Hin for 3 days 2 nights for 1000 Baht. We had several poor communication / no show / can’t reach him on the phone when I wanted to meet him in Bangkok, but that invitation to Hua Hin worked a charm!

8000, 3000 or 1000 for a 3 day 2 night stay, if agreed beforehand between boy and customer, I wish them a happy travel!


I assume most gay Farangs read these forums? 90% is a fair guess? So I think he must be out here somewhere :-)
My estimate is 10-20% of gay Farang read the forums regularly. I have several friends who don't read the forums at all.

[fountainhall]

My estimate is 10-20% of gay Farang read the forums regularly. I have several friends who don't read the forums at all.
I'd guess the number may be even less. Most of the gay farang I know in Bangkok have never even heard of the forum sites when I mention them. And that is surely one reason why the chat rooms are mostly Pattaya-centric.

[francois]

So, if the min overnight fee is 1500 then I should be paying my bf 1500 x 30 =45000/month?

He will be thrilled to read this. But as others have posted, best to negotiate long term rates for offs more than a few days.

[AsDaRa]

And that is surely one reason why the chat rooms are mostly Pattaya-centric.

Yes I notice this too. I have been in Bangkok a few times. The last two days of my last trips I tend to be in Bangkok, also because this way on departure day I can wake up later, since I am closer to the airport. Yet each time I am again confirmed in the view that Pattaya is much better for me.

Pattaya is far cheaper and the boys in Pattaya are the same in hotness, certainly not less. I do not see why some prefer Bangkok above Pattaya. The main difference that I see when it comes to a comparison on sex destination is price. Pattaya being far more cheaper.

Shouldn't that make Pattaya the preferred location? Bangkok has one advantage that I see: you can do in daytime many things, you won't be bored. In Pattaya - apart from the beach (which I don't like) - there is not much to do. So I often go with a boy in the afternoon to the movies or do shopping just to kill time. In Bangkok way more options are available. Is the general boreness of Pattaya the reason some prefer Bangkok? Because - apart from the sex - they are looking for more in their holiday? Yes, then I understand, then Bangkok is to be preferred, even if it is more expensive.

[Oliver]

I've found that the chances of a successful encounter are much higher in Pattaya than Bangkok and I suggest there's a simple reason for this. Apart from expats, the customers in Soi Twilight tend to be there for a short period, often using Bangkok as hub for further travel- which is what I do- or staying a few days only. Few tourists stay for a week or more in a city environment. In Pattaya, there is more chance that the tourist will be spending two weeks or more on vacation and this means that a working guy may strike lucky and have a patron for days rather than hours. He is likely to work harder at his arts and crafts for this while his Bangkok counterpart is likely to regard his "off" as a means to accrue as much money as possible, as quickly as possible.
No doubt there are exceptions but I have to say that, over my two decades as a traveller to Bangkok and Pattaya, I've had plenty of "OK" experiences in Bangkok but none that I'd wish to develop. Pattaya furnished me with my boyfriend of twelve years and plenty of other happy experiences.

Babylon, on the other hand, is always a draw for me and offers opportunities that Sansuk (enjoyable though it is) cannot match. If it were to close, Bangkok would not enjoy my custom for more than a few hours.

[Old git]

Interesting thread..

I take slight issue with the wisdom of telling the boy what you want and agreeing the fee in advance..

I prefer to ask the boy what he likes to do, and if agreeable, whether he would like to do it with me. Trotting a boy off to do something that really doesn't light his fire is a recipe for a bad encounter.

As to agreeing the fee, it places in the boy's mind the question of how little he needs to do to get his money. If the question of money is left open and he goes the extra mile to give me a good time, then I reward him well.

I also set some store by reputation management - if you cruise around, picking up someone from a different bar every night, you are constantly an unknown quantity. If you settle on one or two venues that are close to each other and play fair with the boys, the word gets around that you're a good guy and the boys are more relaxed when you approach them.

You also get odd occasions when there's a newbie in the bar and the manager wants a safe pair of hands to give him his first farang experience - there's nothing they hate more than getting a cute new kid on the team, only to have him so traumatised that he jumps on the next bus home after his first barfine..

[arsenal]

Old Git: You are living in cloud cuckoo land. Indeed your whole post reads like something George Formby would say. You give the impression you're the benign grandfather of Pattaya, so liked and trusted by the assembled exotic workers that they view you almost as a colleague, nay...friend. The opportunities for your off to go wrong are endless and anyone not familiar with Pattaya would be advised to ignore everything you say.
I off straight boys. So, NO, of course they don't LIKE to do what I want them to. That's why I discuss it in advance. It makes the actual off wonderful. In the last two years I have had maybe 45 -50 offs. Two bad ones and both were because I didn't talk to them clearly in advance. So now I follow the plan. It works...every time. I suspect that perhaps, dare I say it...you underpay them.

[Old git]

Now then Arsenal..

Firstly, I lurk on the fringes of the scene rather than the white heat of Pattaya - us oldies look and feel a bit out of place there, and I also have an aversion to loud music.

Secondly, whatever makes you think I underpay? I may have grown up using pounds, shillings and pence, but times move on. I have always been very careful to neither underpay nor overpay for sexual services - neither miser nor sucker - whilst erring heavily on the generous side when it comes to buying drinks.

Benign old grandfather? Well, great-uncle maybe - I do prefer haunts where I'm recognised and welcomed back, although the inability of the gay scene to stand still means that restaurants and guest houses tend to dominate in that regard.

I like to entertain gay lads, doing something they enjoy with someone they probably don't fancy much in order to make money. You like to have sex with straight boys who badly need money in the sure knowledge that they are going to hate what you do to them - I find that a little bit troubling..

[a447]

"in the sure knowledge that they are going to hate what you do to them - I find that a little bit troubling.."

Actually, I don't think that is always the case. A lot of straight guys simply see it as a job - it is what they do to makes money -and are able to somehow divorce themselves from the sex taking place. And they often limit what they are willing to do in bed my confining their sexual role to top only, and refusing to suck or do anything else considered "gay."

I think the gay guys would have a harder time than the straight ones. Being gay means they are likely to want to have sex with a young, fit, handsome young guy their own age. That's who they would lust after, not us. A straight guy wouldn't be at all interested in a gay guy and so would be able to close his eyes and just get the business over and done with.

There is also that group of guys who are somewhere in the middle - they just want to get off and are not too particular who they have sex with. I've met lots of guys like that over the years.

[arsenal]

Old Git. It is impossible for them to 'enjoy' sex if they don't fancy the person they are doing it with, If they give you that impression then they are doing their job very well. I think that you allow yourself considerable generosity in believing they actually enjoy it. However it seems obvious that you probably treat them well and it is very likely that they enjoy your company.
This is the same for me and the straight boys. I don't expect them to enjoy it however within the context of what they do I hope that they don't find it too horrible. A walk around Boyztown or a visit to Nice Boys or Jomtien Complex tells me that I'm an OK client. I think this because they all come and say hello, often for years after I offed them. I prefer straight boys for so many reasons that I wont go into here. It is because they are straight that I ask them what they do do and don't do.
None of them have ever given me the impression they hate me for doing anything to them. Why? Because I follow the easy to use plan that I posted. You KNOW if a Thai go go boy dislikes you. How? Because he simply totally ignores you. I know this from the two bad offs I mentioned previously.


P.S And now all I can think of is the hot Thai boys I offed on my last visit.

[latintopxxx]

must say I'm on the same page as arsenal, imagine the dissapointment if you have offed a MB for a good afternoon of passionate no holds barred tongue on tongue kissing...and it turns out he doesnt actually like it and refuses to do it?!?!
Bit like ordering a sea food pizza and then after waiting 40 min getting a meat lovers.
Old git either u r lying...or have been very lucky that to date you havent been ripped off by some MB demanding an exorbitant amount of cash for spending an afternoon slobbering all over your aged wrinkly body.
I prefer to play it safe and have full upfront disclosure...i agree in advance what is expected..get the MB agreement..and off we go merrily into the sunset. I have had some lie and either under perform (claim to be bottoms but want to stop after 10 min because they cant take anymore) or once naked and in my clutches..refuse to do certain activities which they had previously agreed to. So even with upfront agreement dates still fail...which makes me a little incredulous at old gits success rate.

[cdnmatt]

I'm curious, how in detail do you guys get when discussing the upcoming sex session? Is it just the standard stuff like if they're top or bottom, whether or not they do anal / oral / 69 / kissing / shower together, etc.? Or do you get into kinky details? You want them to wear a dog collar, or lick whip cream off your balls, or bend them over and spank them, or???

I've never discussed anything with an off, and don't think I've ever had an actual BAD off. Well, I guess aside from the time I got pubic lice, but the guy himself performed fine. Of course some have been better than others, but they've all performed adequetely. I guess maybe it's a little disappointing to get them into bed and find out they don't kiss, but I'm not a big enough of a dick to get angry at them for it. I simply smile, say thank you, and never off them again.

[arsenal]

CDMatt:
Very simple. I ask them "Do you..............?
So if you like them to wear a dog collar and lick whipped cream off your balls while you spank them (tricky but doable, possibly) I suggest you tell them that in the bar.

[cdnmatt]

No, I have absolutely zero desire to get into a discussion like that with anyone. I was just curious as to how far some of you take it.

In my mind, it's kind of self defeating. I would imagine many times by the time the guy gets to your room he's quite tense and uncomfortable due to the previous sex discussion, no? Why would I want that? If I'm going to off someone, I want them relaxed, smiling, and in a good mood by the time we hit the mattress.

Then again, I don't really care of offing different guys all the time, so maybe that's it. I prefer to find one I like, then off him each time so we can get to know each other. Only problem with doing that up here is they keep moving on me. My last regular got transferred to Udon for work. He's coming to see me on the 30th though. :)

[a447]

"If I'm going to off someone, I want them relaxed, smiling, and in a good mood by the time we hit the mattress."

I think they'd be a lot more relaxed if they knew beforehand exactly what they were expected to do, rather than find out once they are in the room.

I don't ask too many questions - just whether they are top or bottom and if they have mooks or silicone. That's enough info for me #

I also like to find one guy and basically off him every day. It makes life so much easier.

[cdnmatt]

I think they'd be a lot more relaxed if they knew beforehand exactly what they were expected to do, rather than find out once they are in the room.

Yeah, I can understand that if you're offing different guys each night. Then the need for a consultation makes sense.



I also like to find one guy and basically off him every day. It makes life so much easier.

And the sex generally gets better as time progresses. :) At first you're both naturally a little nervous, so the first couple times are usually bland, and you end up feeling like: https://www.roleplaygateway.com/download/file.php?avatar=55509_1445202206.gif

After that though, from my experience, once you start getting comforable and begin trusting each other, the sex magically gets a whole lot better. Then you start feeling like: https://chinesefontdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/3243543516.gif


EDIT: Sorry, I love Stitch. He's awesome. I think I own all of his sticker pack on Line.

[arsenal]

Yes. I am offing different guys every night. They know what I want and how much I'm going to pay them. It's a win win situation. Trust me. I've probably offed more guys than anyone else on this board over the last 5 years.

[francois]

Wow! 365 x 5 = 1825.

[arsenal]

Francois. Haha. I wish. I sooo fucking wish.

[latintopxxx]

yeah...i dont hop on a plane and fly 11 hours to shack up with one guy for the 10 days I'm there. And Im most definitely into quantity and variety. Will go from twinks to muscle boys. Most definitely go into some detail as in do u bottom/suck/swallow/suck arse and how much I'm prepared to pay and how long the session will be.
Not saying its for everyone...obviously some of u guys are happy to treat it like a date and kinda go with the flow...just not me. Im only there for a week to 10 days..at most 2 weeks and love to fuck and am not willing to throw one away.
As stated previously most of my "dates" are via grindr, some via gayromeo...I just type away they reply and usually its all done after 4 or 5 Q&As.
And I have been known to whip out my phone and point out to the MB that he agreed to something when he tries to back track. I dont need him to even like me...

[Oliver]

An astonishing image comes to mind; a falang demands something bizarre from his date who expresses concern, whereupon he is confronted with the record of an i-phone conversation conducted in a foreign language.
And after this extraordinary encounter, is what follows "fun"? Really?

[latintopxxx]

Oliver...its fun for me...and thats all that matters...in fact if the MB is peeved off thats a bonus. If u read some of my previous posts u will note that vanilla is not my favourite flavour...
As for bizarre ...is it too much to ask that a self advertised bottom ...actually bottom??

[cdnmatt]

I can use the food analogy like latin did too, and pretty much exactly how I view it. New restaurant or for-pay sex with a stranger? Same enjoyment level for me, and all depends on how good the food / sex is. :)

For me at least, going with a new guy is kinda like checking out a new restaurant. I don't rush back to the kitchen to see how food is being prepared before ordering. If the food sucks, I don't berate the waitress, nor do I run to the back and start screaming at the chef about the proper way to cook my food. I simply smile, pay the bill, and never go back. If the food and service is great, then you can expect me to be back many times.

Same goes for a MB. I'm not going to berate them while they're doing their job. If they provide good service, I'll happily become a returning customer, no problem. If they provide shitty service, well, then I'm a one-time customer.

[latintopxxx]

matty boy...now u r getting all confucked using funny analogies. I prefer to think of it like going into a restaurant, ordering 3 courses and only being served 2. Would u still pay for all 3 and tip?? If I pay for a service I expect to get it, if I dont I complain and expect a discount. I dont buy into the whole politically correct nonsense that I gotta think of the MB feelings..whatever.
In my job if I dont perform I loose contracts. Why should someone peddling his arse get a free ride??
Note that most of the MB I engage perform satisfactorily, some have a bumpy start, we stop and I enlighten them as to my expecrtations and off we go again. a very small minority are a complete waste of time and the only way they are going to learn that ripping people off is not the way forward is to not pay them and let them know how unhappy I am.

[latintopxxx]

furthermore matty have u wondered if the restaurant may appreciate feedback, if u have crappy service or crappy food maybe if u let them know they could change and improve and remain in business. To simply smile like a simpleton and then slag then off behind their back is in my opinion not the best.
I do admit that my methods are not for everyone but i do find that if I complain about the MB service he mostly tends to try a lot harder to please me...it also gives me a bit of a laugh. Love when I moan that he's shit at deep throating then he spends the next half hour kneeling between my legs gagging trying his best while I sit back sniggering at his attempts.

[cdnmatt]

a very small minority are a complete waste of time and the only way they are going to learn that ripping people off is not the way forward is to not pay them and let them know how unhappy I am.

Please don't tell me you actually refuse payment, and shove them out the door. If you by chance do, then you're a complete prick. Really, does say ~$30 USD really matter to you?

I don't know, I guess we see it from two different lenses. In my eyes, we're hunting them, not the other way around. I don't know... all I know is I think you're a bit of a prick, and you should learn to have a little empathy.

[latintopxxx]

Yes, I do refuse them full payment, they get max 100 for the taxi; if they claim to be a bottom and have agreed to bottom and then dont once they get to my room then thats just plain deceit.
As for hunting!!! Do you even posses a smart phone?? The moment I log onto grindr I get at least 10 messages /day from MB wanting to play. Its just so easy.
Empathy...yeah sure, but I'm not a fool.

[latintopxxx]

lets just agree to disagree.:cool:

[cdnmatt]

Ok, I think I'll stick with my original assessment. You're a prick.

I don't know what dregs of society you're bringing back to your hotel room, but I've never personally had a problem. They've all showered up and have gotten naked for me, no problems. I guess sometimes they've just layed their like a lump of coal basically, and other times have stuck their tongue so far down my throat I didn't know they made tongues that long.

Nonetheless, I've never refused payment, and you're an asshole if you have.

[cdnmatt]

I mean, if I go to the theater and don't like the movie, I don't get to say "fuck you, I'm not paying to watch that movie". Same concept. Instead, I just go home grumbling under my breath, "what a shitty movie", but I don't get say 80% off just because I didn't like the movie.

[AsDaRa]

yeah...i dont hop on a plane and fly 11 hours to shack up with one guy for the 10 days I'm there. And Im most definitely into quantity and variety. Will go from twinks to muscle boys. Most definitely go into some detail as in do u bottom/suck/swallow/suck arse and how much I'm prepared to pay and how long the session will be.
Not saying its for everyone...obviously some of u guys are happy to treat it like a date and kinda go with the flow...just not me. Im only there for a week to 10 days..at most 2 weeks and love to fuck and am not willing to throw one away.
As stated previously most of my "dates" are via grindr, some via gayromeo...I just type away they reply and usually its all done after 4 or 5 Q&As.
And I have been known to whip out my phone and point out to the MB that he agreed to something when he tries to back track. I dont need him to even like me...

I am exactly the same, only I go from twink to twink. It is different I think if you are retired and live there everyday.
I am like you max 10 days there on each holiday and I want to max out these days, because next opportunity is not tomorrow, no, it is a few months later. That is why I also discuss beforehand. If you stay such a short time like I do you, you do everything to raise the chances for a good off, not risk a bad off. So I discuss beforehand.

And me too as many different boys as possible. Also because there are so many beautiful twinks there, I find it hard to have one boy only for a few days. If I see another one who I desire, I just need him at least once in my bed. That is why I am incapable of being faithful to one boy only. I am not build for that.

[latintopxxx]

matty boy, there u go again, seems like u have difficulty understanding (I'm typing s..l..o..w..l..y on purpose so u can keep up) , if the MB claims to be a bottom and performs ok or not up to my standards even after i complain but still sticks it out and does his best..all good, he will get what we agreed and not a baht more. Now if he gives up 15 min into a 2 hour anal fuck session...then thats where we have a serious issue and I certainly will not pay him the full amount. So coming back to your theatre scenario....if they actually show the full movie well thats what we paid for, but if they stop it 15 min into the 2 hour screening then I certainly would be lining up for a refund.
no performance...no money. I'm no liberal left leaning bleeding heart that travels to the 3rd world to give away my cash because i feel sorry for the natives because they are too stoopid to look after themselves.
No...I treat them like equals..we make a deal and I will keep my part of te deal if they do too, I certainly will not insult them by treating them as somehow addled locals.
i dunno...but like do u get it???

[cdnmatt]

i dunno...but like do u get it???

You mean the fact you're a dick? Yep, got it. :)

So what if the sex isn't EXACTLY what you want every time? Isn't there more than one sexual position / activity that you enjoy? If he doesn't want to do one thing, then just do something else. It's not that big of a deal, is it? There's loads of different ways to give and receive sexual pleasure, so find something you're both comfortable with, and go for it.

I don't know, but I think sex is way better when both partners are happy and comfortable, instead of one partner gritting his teeth, thinking, "OMFG! when is this going to end?!?!?".

[arsenal]

CDMatt: Latins posts are not real. By engaging with him you're simply fueling the nonsense. All you need to write is.
"Yes Dear, of course you did" to each and every claim he makes.

Let's try. I'll go first.

I offed a boy from BBB and I fucked him twice on the Wild West Boys stoop. Then I got him to suck me while we were on the baht bus. Finally I demanded he howl like a wolf while I fucked him upside down in the shower. He complained but I told him I was the customer. Afterwards I chucked him 20 baht and told him that's all he was getting cos his wolf howling was crap.

Over to you Matt.

[latintopxxx]

arsenal u r my hero

[latintopxxx]

now seriously arsenal, are u trying to tell me that I'm the only one who refuses to pay a MB for services not rendered. Because that is the point. Right?

[latintopxxx]

...and as for crazy antics...have u ever been into a straight gogo bar...like the iron club in walking street. Have u ever partied with straight guys...and been part of the crazy shit they get up to.
I have...and it makes us look like vestial virgins.

[Davey612]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'll continue this one. Next month will be the first time I am back in Thailand since the beginning of the millennium. I am more at ease with how compensation is done in the western hemisphere because most guys are not ashamed of telling me beforehand. "Are you generous" on an app chat gets me the picture right away. Asking me for help to pay for a mobile phone gets me the picture right away.

This brings me back to vague memories of my travels in Thailand. I remember I did prefer going to massage places because I actually knew how much to tip. A lot of massage places were quite clear on how much to tip. It is on this vague "up to you" bar boy mode of operation that I am not quite that clear. So, may I ask forum members what is the general fees? So far I read that 1,500 Baht is fine for overnight. So, how much for a short term?

Thanks guys

[Mancs]

1000 to 1500. The members here tell me 1500 is ok for overnight. That's not what men in Thailand tell me. Maybe I need to sharpen my negotiating skills. If a man in a massage shop like Bonnies in Soi Twilight makes an effort I always tip 1000 baht, a bit more than the minimum.

[arsenal]

Hi Mancs:
The going rate for shorttime in Sunee and Jomtien is 1200 and about 1500 in Boystown. If you follow the multi award winning guide I set out at the beginning of this thread you won't go far wrong and should enjoy wonderful offs every time because believe it or not, the boy wants a nice pleasant transaction almost as much as you do. And I probably off more boys in Pattaya than anyone else on this board. Have a great time.

[Mancs]

Thank you Arsenal. And how much is long time? I was told off before on here for paying 2500 long time but, if ST is 1500 in Boystown, then it doesn't seem out of line?

[arsenal]

Mancs: I don't know about long time charges as I never want it. One boy told me he charges 2500 but I bet at 1.00am he'd agree to 1500. But I would definitely make him turn off his phone because one of his friends is likely to lose his key if you know what I mean.

[christianpfc]

In Pattaya ST 1000, LT 1500, although some places like BBB might press for 1500 and 2000.
In Bangkok ST 1500, LT 2000, although some places might press for more.

If a boy asks for more, I will ask him how long he has been working there, then I will tell him that I have been taking boys from bars since 2009 and never paid more than xxxx Baht, and I will keep it that way.

One should make it a rule that the boy has to switch off his phone upon entering the room.

[scottish-guy]

The phone rule is all very well when the punter is a younger and in-shape guy like you Christian - but spare a thought for the rest of us who are forced to let the boy watch str8 porn on his phone During the encounter or else he'd not be "up" to the job

:D

[latintopxxx]

thank all the Gods I'm a top and don't care a hoot if his hydraulics work.......

[arsenal]

Scottish wrote:
"The phone rule is all very well when the punter is a younger and in-shape guy like you Christian - but spare a thought for the rest of us who are forced to let the boy watch str8 porn on his phone During the encounter or else he'd not be "up" to the job."

Well by the time Scottish has taken out his false teeth (previously discussed) unglued his toupee and removed his whale bone corset who is going to be 'up to the job?' I should imagine at that moment 12 hours working on a death trap of a building site suddenly seems very attractive.

[Jellybean]

Scottish wrote:
"The phone rule is . . . or else he'd not be "up" to the job."

Well by the time Scottish has taken out his false teeth (previously discussed) unglued his toupee and removed his whale bone corset who is going to be 'up to the job?' I should imagine at that moment 12 hours working on a death trap of a building site suddenly seems very attractive.

Hello Honky Tonks!

Ooh, you are awful arsenal, but I like you!

:D

[scottish-guy]

... by the time Scottish has taken out his false teeth (previously discussed) unglued his toupee and removed his whale bone corset who is going to be 'up to the job?'...

Speak for yourself - I got a stiffy just reading that