Amazon.com: Is It Defrauding Customers?

[fountainhall]

I have been using amazon.com for years, originally for physical books, CDs and occasionally DVDs - now mostly for Kindle editions. Last week I placed an order for a special book I need to take to a friend in Taipei. In view of the time taken to send it from the US, I ordered the fastest delivery time. It arrived yesterday. So far, so good.

When I opened the package, I had a quick glance at the invoice. It was the same as when I placed the order, but then I noticed something unusual that had escaped my notice and I have never seen before. There was a line item "Estimated Tax". The cost of the book was US$25.64 and the courier postage $30.98. The estimated tax was $7.70.

In all the amazon orders I have placed since moving to Thailand, I have never had to pay tax on any item - other than DVDs which require going to the post office and paying tax on the declared value of the order. So why is amazon now slapping on an "Estimated Tax" charge on all items? I immediately wrote to amazon and quickly received an email which stated the following -


Orders that are shipped to countries outside the U.S. may be subject to import taxes, customs duties, and fees charged by the destination country customs authorities. Amazon Export Sales will estimate and collect an import fee deposit to certain destination countries. These funds will be used by the carrier or another agent to pay the import fees on your behalf to the appropriate authorities when your package reaches its destination country. The estimated import fee deposit will be displayed in the cost summary on the last page of our online order form, just before you place your order.
That to me is pure b/s! And worse, if no tax is payable, amazon do not refund that "deposit". The functionary that emailed me said that "as a special gesture" they would refund the $7.70 to my credit card account. But he said nothing about refunds being given as a matter of course in countries where no tax is payable.

Has anyone else experienced this?

[fountainhall]

I have received a response from amazon that it is now policy to add an "estimated tax deposit" for all purchases - even when it knows that no tax is levied in the country of delivery on specific purchases that have been ordered! It will then credit any unused portion of that "deposit" to credit card accounts "within 60 days".

I think this is utterly disgraceful. A 30%+ "tax deposit" for a book is wholly unjustified. Since an email to a supervisor at amazon could not be delivered this morning, no doubt customers who have not had the deposit refunded in whole or in part will find it extremely difficult to obtain redress.

[goji]

Does this tax charge show up at the point where you pay for the goods ?

If it does, well at least Amazon are transparent. If it does not, I think you need to be contacting Jeff Bezos.

I have good shipped from China, Hong Kong, Korea and the US to my home in the UK. Only twice have I had something stopped by customs or subject to extra charges.
Of course, if Amazon find goods shipped to Thailand frequently get stopped, then their best service would be to ensure the charges can be paid, which may be what they are doing. However, this has to be clear at the point of ordering.
Your previous posts imply it was not, in which case I would be making a lot of noise about the issue.

[fountainhall]

Does this tax charge show up at the point where you pay for the goods ?
Yes. It is slipped in on the very last page after you have decided on what you are ordering and how you want it sent. Since it is a new policy at amazon, I did not notice it - but it is there, it is also on the billing statement after the order arrives.


I have good shipped from China, Hong Kong, Korea and the US to my home in the UK. Only twice have I had something stopped by customs or subject to extra charges.
Of course, if Amazon find goods shipped to Thailand frequently get stopped, then their best service would be to ensure the charges can be paid, which may be what they are doing. However, this has to be clear at the point of ordering.
The core of the problem is that amazon appears to have decided that every shipment to all countries will now have a tax deposit added - even when the order itself and/or the country concerned levies no such taxes. Books and CDs sent to Thailand are subject to no tax. So why should any customer pay a deposit of 30+% that will not be refunded for up to 60 days? To me that makes zero sense. Shipments to Hong Kong are not subject to tax. If I ordered an $800 camera to be sent to my Hong Kong office, why should I pay amazon $240 as a tax deposit and let them keep that for up to 60 days? And because of bank and currency conversion charges, it will not be the full $240 that I get back!

[cdnmatt]

In defense of Amazon here, they were probably getting thousands of thousands of complains from customers having items stuck in customs due to simple $8 import taxes. This policy allows those items to flow right through to the customer without interruption.

And the policy says you will be refunded within 60 days. My guess is it's generally sooner than that, but Amazon has to receive communication from customs of receiving country -> courier -> Amazon, so they wanted to give themselves more than enough leeway.

[fountainhall]

In defense of Amazon here, they were probably getting thousands of thousands of complains from customers having items stuck in customs due to simple $8 import taxes. This policy allows those items to flow right through to the customer without interruption.
How long has amazon been in existence? More than 2 decades. Anyone who ordered from the site was well aware they had to pay customs duties on certain purchases if they live in certain countries. The order page of the site used to say so in quite prominent lettering. So why introduce a general deposit system now? And if it wants a deposit system, why does it not go a bit further by checking in advance what items are taxable in each country. Can you imagine all the extra work required at amazon to process refunds? And I'll bet Bezos' staff will be flooded with complaints on this one.

[cdnmatt]

Again, I'm still a little uncertain what the complaint here is. If anything, I'd say Amazon should be applauded for taking a pro-active step in streamlining international shipments. People just want to order their stuff, and get it delivered to their door.

They don't want to place an order, get a call from customs, then have to visit the customs office to pay an import tax, etc. I would imagine that's the entire reason this policy was put into place. Enough people complained about that, and Amazon listened.

And if the import tax isn't charged by customs, Amazon will refund you, as you already stated. Amazon says within 60 days, and I could be wrong, but I bet in 90%+ cases it's far sooner than that. They're just giving themselves leeway in cases of miscommunication, shipping delays, whatever.

Still not sure what you're so upset about. How many other companies out there are this pro-active in ensuring the items you purchase get to you ASAP without delay? Oh right, none.

[fountainhall]

Again, I'm still a little uncertain what the complaint here is. If anything, I'd say Amazon should be applauded for taking a pro-active step in streamlining international shipments. People just want to order their stuff, and get it delivered to their door.
Firstly, let me say that after I had been in touch with amazon, the title of the thread is now misleading. But that doesn't alter my views.

You remain uncertain. Let me try and clarify my views more simply. Buying online is easy. It is often easier than going to a store for your purchase. And starting with books, buying through amazon was really easy. During amazon's existence, I have lived in Hong Kong and in Bangkok. Hong Kong has no import taxes on most items other than a few products like cigarettes, booze and perfume. Thailand has no import taxes on books or CDs.

Amazon is a very savvy organisation. Since it has decided to impose a deposit system, why does it not go further to check on precisely which items are taxable and which not? But it has been lazy and not done that due diligence - so the policy is that every item will have a deposit added. So it is now the customer each and every time who has to do a series of double-checking that the full deposits are actually refunded to whichever card/s have been used.

In a nutshell, amazon has unilaterally imposed this charge. If, as you suggested earlier, they have "thousands and thousands" of complaints from customers having to pay their own import taxes, surely the solution is incredibly simple. It could easily have added just one additional tick box - "Yes, please deduct an import tax deposit" - or "No, I do not want an import tax deposit added". After all, they have absolutely no problem with asking customers if they want the payment made in the currency of the order or the currency of the card. All it takes is one click!

[cdnmatt]

Amazon is a very savvy organisation. Since it has decided to impose a deposit system, why does it not go further to check on precisely which items are taxable and which not?

Because it would be a logistical nightmare. Are you suggesting Amazon creates and maintains contacts with every government in the world to keep its database up to date on the latest import tax laws of each country?


It could easily have added just one additional tick box - "Yes, please deduct an import tax deposit" - or "No, I do not want an import tax deposit added".

That I agree with. That is actually a better solution, and something they should have done instead. Not sure why they didn't.