Full frontal naked good looking guy, farang posted here

[lonelywombat]

Not sure how I got there as I am still confused finding my way around here.
But I found this photo posted on Sawatdee 2 weeks ago, and I found it most enjoyable looking at.

Obviously full front nudity is now available

Here is the first pic, there are a lot more

http://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/dbtgallery.php?do=view_image&id=767&gal=gallery

[fountainhall]

I noticed this as well and then spotted the gallery which has loads of pics. Who posts these? Can any member do so? And what level of nudity if permitted - flaccid, erect, semi-erect, rear view? I suspect this could be an attraction for the site - as well as a possible pothole if the powers-that-be are eventually alerted to more extreme posts. Some guidance please.

[Tobi]

It's risky, especially with professional pics. as copyright holders may file DMCAs against sites that use their images without permission, potentially tanking the forum out of the rankings, or deindexing the site entirely from Google, etc.

The images appear to have come via http://photoblue0.blogspot.co.uk/?zx=c0e2461543116c04

[Moses]

All photos in the gallery are from old forum or from forum what existed before old forum (sawatdee-gay-thailand), some of them may be are from bangkokbois or from other now nonexisted sites within sawatdeenetwork. I found them in the old folders on the sever. Surfcrest and me made decision to publish them.

Members can't publish photos to this gallery, but can publish photos to posts or create own galleries or albums in own profiles.

Draft guidance for publication at the forums what are visible for visitors; what is not suitable:
- underage (means: not only real underage, but also "no" to photos of person who is adult but looking as minor without proof of real age)
- sex-scenes even when "nothing is visible" including "solo" scenes with or without "toys", masturbation
- erection, visible anus
- photos of using of drugs
- photos of sex with animals
- nude photos of people with personal information (real name and so on) unless such photos already have been published by this person or his legal representative at public web-space (example: if Mike has his nude photo at his personal page somewhere in internet where any visitor can see it, then Peter can publish such photo at forum with commentary "This is photo of Mike", but Peter can't publish photos of Mike what are locked with password or subscription.)

In general words: erotic is OK, porno isn't OK. In any case NO minors, NO "zoo", NO nude photos of people with personal information. If you doubt - ask Surfcrest or me.

[fountainhall]

The images appear to have come via http://photoblue0.blogspot.co.uk/?zx=c0e2461543116c04
I have always loved photoblue's photos. Some of their models (all Taiwanese) are gorgeous! It is a subscription site which publishes emailed photo magazines at relatively small cost. However, check most tumblr sites and you will see tons of their photos. Interestingly, only recently photoblue has started masking sensitive parts of the photos on their own site. Hopefully these will find their way on to the internet without the masking.

All genuine photoblue photos have a small copyright credit built in to the photo. I believe this then permits others to use them. However, there are some tumblr site owners that include its photos with this credit either blurred or blotted out. That presumably could make them subject to some form of legal action. However, it is usual on almost all tumblr sites for there to be a disclaimer about the origin of photos and an agreement to take down any disputed photos as requested. Presumably the same disclaimer could be used for the gallery and posted photos here.

The guy in this series is one of my favourites - sadly had to crop it though to fit the guidelines

http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l597/fountainhall/tumblr_nh7duw1z4y1sjhs69o3_500%20copy.jpg (http://s1125.photobucket.com/user/fountainhall/media/tumblr_nh7duw1z4y1sjhs69o3_500%20copy.jpg.html)

[Moses]

>>>All genuine photoblue photos have a small copyright credit built in to the photo. I believe this then permits others to use them.

Not "this" but fact what photoblue distributes their photos via RSS - everyone can subscribe and translate thier photos from their RSS at own site: it is part of their marketing strategy - visitors of other sites watch photos, see name of original site and then visiting it.

[Moses]

Fountainhall, your post with photos is here http://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?17897-I-ll-start-the-ball-rolling-with-a-few-more-from-photoblue-s-archives - in separated thread. Let's keep threads clear on topic. This one is about posting politic and what's gallery for.

[Tobi]

I believe this then permits others to use them.

It doesn't. The copyright holder has to declare the image "public domain" or release it under something like Creative Commons. Of course, there's the caveats of jurisdiction and various complex international copyright laws.

I was gobsmacked to learn that some photographers earn more from misuse of their images than the actual images themselves. It's incredibly easy these days, with automated services that find your images and issue DMCAs and substantial bills for misuse. http://www.dmca.com/

Co.'s like Facebook sometimes enforce this http://petapixel.com/2012/10/08/facebook-shuttering-massive-pages-for-violating-photo-copyrights/ and individuals occasionally come a cropper http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/mar/11/use-google-images-website

I know of one gay site that got tanked out of the rankings and can no longer be found on Google because of DMCAs and some of the more aggressive protection co.'s actually insist that the website host suspend the hosting until the matter is resolved, etc.

In truth, with a small site like this, that's unlikely to attract attention, the risks are probably slight.

The other concern is that naked pics. are likely to get the site banned in some countries, not sure what the law is in Thailand for example, but definitely other countries will block websites displaying such content.

[Moses]

It doesn't. The copyright holder has to declare the image "public domain" or release it under something like Creative Commons. Of course, there's the caveat of jurisdiction and international copyright laws.

I was gobsmacked to learn that some photographers earn more from misuse of their images than the actual images themselves. It's incredibly easy these days, with automated services that find your images and issue DMCAs and substantial bills for misuse. http://www.dmca.com/

I know of one gay site that got tanked out of the rankings and can no longer be found on Google because of DMCAs and some of the more aggressive protection co.'s actually insist that the website host suspend the hosting until the matter is resolved, etc.

In truth, with a small site like this, that's unlikely to attract attention, the risks are probably slight.

The other concern is that naked pics. are likely to get the site banned in some countries, not sure what the law is in Thailand for example, but definitely other countries will block such content.

I doubt if photoblue is owner of copyrights - they translating images from many magazines around the World, mostly Chinese, but also from Japan

[Tobi]

Exactly. However, reverse image search engines exist and some of the professional ones are incredibly accurate. Also, more and more photographers are now using services such as Digimarc https://www.digimarc.com/ so they can immediately track any misuse. As I said previously, I think the risk here is slight, of more concern maybe is whether or not Sawatdeenetwork gets blocked in certain countries because it's hosting naked images.

[Moses]

of more concern maybe is whether or not Sawatdeenetwork gets blocked in certain countries because it's hosting naked images.

What countries block sites for "naked images"? I doubt if I know even one ( I guess some countries at the Middle East?)

[fountainhall]

Whatever our own thoughts, we can surely leave the legal issues to Moses and Surfcrest to make the decision on nudity or not. I think most posters know that gaythailand.com has not permitted frontal nudity for many years. Personally I feel Moses guidelines ought to be acceptable and I hope all posters abide by them.

As for photoblue, the parent site has a variety of different types of magazine and it seems these do have photos from various sites. However, I am pretty certain the male nude photos are special shoots and feature only Taiwan guys. I have seen a few of the models on Hornet or jack'd when I have been in Taipei.

[Tobi]

What countries block sites for "naked images"?

I haven't researched it, so don't know about Thailand, but I recall Stickman saying it was an issue. It might also be a concern that Myanmar, Laos and Indonesia routinely block websites containing nudity, as do countries as diverse as China and India as well as the UAE, Middle East, etc. etc.

[Tobi]

... we can surely leave the legal issues to Moses and Surfcrest to make the decision on nudity or not...

Absolutely, I just thought I'd mention it as if this site does get blocked from within Thailand then it might lose a substantial part of its audience!

[Moses]

I want specially point your attention to the word "Draft". It isn't final decision and I leave final decision on Surfcrest since my part of job is mostly concentrated on technical side. My "draft" is here just for quick answer and may not reflect forum's policy about nudity "at full". I'm sure Surfcrest will explain policy better when he will have time. Also Surfcrest has more knowledges about domestic law and about limits of hosting agreement with company what hosts our site.

[Nirish guy]

Thats a novel idea, us being responsible for posting ( or not posting) viewing content that parents wouldn't like their children to see, call me old fashioned but I would have thought that is a parents responsibility to police what their children are allowed / able to see and what sites they visit - not ours. Also to be frank if the kids can read then I think I'd be much more concerned about them reading some of the general written content here rather than them inadvertently opening a page that contains some random dick pic.

[Moses]

Thats a novel idea, us being responsible for posting

There is no "us" in this situation. At any case owner of the site is responsible for everything what's going on at the site. So I'm asking do not post porn, hardons and other stuff what is not suitable for kids.

[Nirish guy]

So by definition then the other stuff, i.e non hard cock pics and us talking about picking up and fucking young prostitutes whilst discussing how much they charged and how they performed sexually for us is then suitable for kids ?? Really ?

I do understand what you're trying to say i.e lets keep the site legal etc and I'm all for that but then where does one draw the line, as if kids can see / are reading this site (where are their parents and why are they not policing their children better !) and we truly believe that kids are reading this stuff then we really shouldn't be posting any of the stuff we do to the board perhaps. However as this ISN'T a site built or intended for kids and it really SHOULD be up to the parents to look after their own children, I'm sure we'll all continue posting as we do - with your rules being upheld of course - but I'll certainly not be starting to think to censor my posts "just in case" some kid reads something on the internet that they shouldn't , that's the parent's problem not mine - which was my original point.

[Tobi]

It's not usually a question of legality, but that search engines like Google will not list sites that contain nudity or pornography in general search results. At the moment, if you type gay thailand in Google, Sawatdeenetwork is shown on the first page of the results. If Google's spiders determine that there is naked or pornographic images on this site, it's likely that it will no longer be listed.

There is also hosting to take into consideration, for example many hosts ban adult content except on dedicated servers. This is because shared hosting often shares a single IP address, and some search engines will deindex all content associated with an IP address that is associated with pornographic material, which means other websites sharing that IP address even those not containing such material will also suffer delisting.

[Moses]

It's not usually a question of legality, but that search engines like Google will not list sites that contain nudity or pornography in general search results. At the moment, if you type gay thailand in Google, Sawatdeenetwork is shown on the first page of the results. If Google's spiders determine that there is naked or pornographic images on this site, it's likely that it will no longer be listed.

It will be at first page even with porno, but only when "safesearch" settings will be switched off... so you are right in general - we don't want to see SN marked as 18+

I'm looking for solution to fulfill demands of Google and members at the same time :)

[Tobi]

No, it won't Moses. Google will not show sites that contain adult content under non-adult search terms. You will not rank for gay thailand if Google determines there is adult content here. You may well rank for something like gay porn thailand or gay sex thailand instead.

[Moses]

No, it won't Moses. Google will not show sites that contain adult content under non-adult search terms. You will not rank for gay thailand if Google determines there is adult content here. You may well rank for something like gay porn thailand or gay sex thailand instead.

OK, here I should trust you cuz I'm not a big expert in Google SEO for adult sites - I never had experience to promote adult sites in Google nor experience of my site been filtered as 18+

[Tobi]

I know more about this than I care too, simply because we employ a full time SEO guy and an agency too, our Adword bill is rarely less than £10k a month, and we've come a cropper over this ourselves, where we displayed images from a Mapplethorpe exhibition and lost our own listings under certain search terms!

[goji]

I'm looking for solution to fulfill demands of Google and members at the same time :)

Would restricting access to the nude part of the gallery to members, or members with more than 20 posts work ?
I guess google would not find that.

[Tobi]

You would need the area to be encrypted, many spiders will circumvent membership content plugins. If you think about it, most porn sites are members only, they still don't get listed under general search terms.

[Moses]

I know more about this than I care too, simply because we employ a full time SEO guy and an agency too, our Adword bill is rarely less than £10k a month, and we've come a cropper over this ourselves, where we displayed images from a Mapplethorpe exhibition and lost our own listings under certain search terms!

hehe... than more Google filtering then more you pay to adwords :) that's what filters for :))) left hand adds filters, right hand receives money :))))

[Tobi]

Exactly. It's also soul-destroying to watch the price of your keywords rocket in your Adwords account, as your content becomes more-and-more popular. :(

[Tobi]

It's not just age verification, Moses. The majority of public wifi, including hotels and businesses, will have firewalls that don't allow inappropriate content to pass, many use filters or services that will block sites that contain naked imagery.

[Moses]

Exactly. It's also soul-destroying to watch the price of your keywords rocket in your Adwords account, as your content becomes more-and-more popular. :(

I don't use google ads at all. Much more simple is just to grab visitors from FB or other s.n.

[cdnmatt]

I have to agree with Tobi. I think one of the main reasons Surfcrest initially bought this forum was due to the SEO rankings it has. If Google ever classifies this as an adult site (which it will, if it's full of nudes), then almost instantly about 90% of the SEO rankings are gone, and have fun getting them back.

Besides, there's loads of places we can all see porn. No real need for it it, in my mind.

[Tobi]

Unfortunately, FB et al don't really work with B2B. :(

[NickysGayPattaya]

I've had this argument in the past with Surfcrest. Nicky's cannot support any website that shows naked pictures. Pornography in any form is illegal in Thailand for one. Nicky's websites will not risk being banned in the very country we are aimed at. Up to Surfcrest if he wants to continue taking the risk, but Nicky's will not follow this 'trend'.

[Surfcrest]

I have to agree with Tobi. I think one of the main reasons Surfcrest initially bought this forum was due to the SEO rankings it has. If Google ever classifies this as an adult site (which it will, if it's full of nudes), then almost instantly about 90% of the SEO rankings are gone, and have fun getting them back.

No, I bought the site to take it out of Neal's hands...simple as that. I didn't even know what a SEO ranking was a few years back.

As many of you know, we've had this debate over the years...mostly coming to the same conclusions. Posting photos is a slippery slope for a lot of the reasons you all have mentioned already, in addition to the implied reasons and risks.

When I bought this site in 2013, it was blocked by True in Thailand and before that, I believe it was banned by the government. I have some screen shots of the old screen notices that used to pop up in Thai. Our IT Department used to block access to Sawatdee-Gay-Thailand.com and appears to have just started blocking Sawatdeenetwork.com in the recent days. It cost a lot of money these past few years to get around the ban, to move the site from Sawatdee-Gay-Thailand.com to sawatdeenetwork.com.

Having said all that, I've recently entered into a partnership agreement with Moses here...who has taken the fading lights that was the Old Board and has given us something new and fresh...something we can take in an entirely different direction than where we'e been going as just a Forum.

We are hosted in Vancouver, Canada and subject to Canadian Law. Our audience though and many of our partners, like Nicky's Gay Thailand are Thailand based, as so by breaking this Thai law or allowing the Protest Update thread to cross the Lèse_majesté lines could initiate us being banned again.

I propose a different solution to the question. Why not have a private members area, based on joining a Group within the membership that only this Group can see and participate in the Gallery? I'm not certain that would be entirely fail safe, but it's an idea I believe I have the ability to create.

Surfcrest

[NickysGayPattaya]

I will be perfectly satisfied if this all goes private and "members only" as before. Sawatdee still runs the risk of being blocked by Thailand and Google, unless this area can be guaranteed to be "bot free" for Google (not hard to do) and inspection free by Thai authorities. Far safer would be a separate domain name, a separate host or IP address and take it right out of the sawatdee network.

However, it would not concern me so much as the current situation. As a start, how about removing the publicly visible naked pictures on this thread and the other new ones?

Just FYI, Nicky's sites are hosted in England and come under British law. The work is done on them outside Thailand, and none of the regular contributors now live in the Kingdom. However, it would be tragic if Nicky's were ever blocked by Thailand.

[oldfarang]

For what ever my 2 cents are worth in this discussion/thread, while only having read the post above from Surfcrest.

I believe that it is a bad move doing nudes/erotic and such for several reasons:

1 the risk of the site being banned from Thailands ISP's (or who/how ever they do that)
2 personally I see no added value with nude photo's, daily life and holiday photo's are so much nicer.
3 the internet is overloaded with porn/nudes in every way possible and very easy to find, therefore why offer the same again here, gaythailand forum has a whole nude section already with the same photo's, if you ask me.
4 if you look at the ratings the photo's get the very few more slim "boyish" looking ones get 5 stars while most photo's in the gallery are from more bodybuilding types (even hairy Swatzenegger types) which get no or low ratings. That shows the nude gallery passes by the "needs" of the audience.

Here are the only real Justin Bieber nudes, which are from a few months ago, just to spice it up, for the ones here that missed it.

365936603661

[christianpfc]

As far as I could see, none of these pictures are original content, all are copied from somewhere else on the internet. What's the point in that?

[lonelywombat]

In a conversation with a recently returned but regular visitor to Bangkok and Pattaya, I was told of the hundreds of Twitter accounts of naked males and females with many under age 18, showing their bodies from home, some for reward.
It is considered "normal" for teenage kids to take naked photos and post to twitter and other similar accounts. There are video sites where kids and adults go online and show their naked bodies to kids their own age.
I have no interest but net nudity is growing. If there was a move, it would have to be widespread and huge, to close the gaps.

[Tobi]

Why not have a private members area...

It would need it's own subdomain or domain name and most importantly, its own IP address. Is it really worth it? After all, there are thousands of adult sites out there, it's not like Sawatdee Network is going to become a destination for those looking for such content.

[scottish-guy]

...."no" to photos of person who is adult but looking as minor....

So I can't post my selfies now?

I had the tummy tuck, hair transplant, dental implants, and all that facial work done FOR NOTHING??

[a447]

No port or nude photos - just not worth the risk. As others have pointed out, there's plenty of porn on the net. If you like Asian porn, just sign up to Tumblr. More Asian cock than you can like a stick at.

[francois]

So I can't post my selfies now?

I had the tummy tuck, hair transplant, dental implants, and all that facial work done FOR NOTHING??

You can post your selfies as long as you don't lift your kilt higher than your knees. I am assuming you "hung" yourself along with the other cosmetic procedures?

[Moses]

It would need it's own subdomain or domain name and most importantly, its own IP address. Is it really worth it? After all, there are thousands of adult sites out there, it's not like Sawatdee Network is going to become a destination for those looking for such content.

We already have 5 IPs and unlimited subdomains. But this step don't needs IP or subdomain, there will be just few clicks by mouse in user-groups permission setup: then only registered and logged-in users will see such content.

[Tobi]

Yes, but that won't stop Google, Bing, Yahoo et al from "seeing" such content exists on the site, even if casual visitors can't access it, and dropping you out of search results. Go ahead, Moses, I'm more than happy to see pics. of naked guys, just didn't want all your hard work to cost you a load of traffic, for stuff that can be got elsewhere, in better quality and larger quantities than will ever exist here at Sawatdee Network.

If you don't mind losing your ranking, getting blocked from various countries and becoming inaccessible from public wifi, mobile phones, etc. that's entirely up to you.

It's your site, your rules.

[fountainhall]

I posted some photos based on the fact that someone had pointed out there are naked pics in the Gallery section and Moses had laid out some guidelines. Also the well-read Bangkokbois site had a fair share of naked pics every week without anyone ever raising objections or concerns. Nevertheless, I really do not see any need for a naked gallery here - unless it happens to drive interest in other parts of the site. As others have pointed out, there are many hundreds of new naked photos posted on tumblr sites daily.

Since there are obvious concerns being expressed, why not just kill the idea and have a gallery of non-frontal nude photos - as is the case on gaythailand.com?

[Tobi]

Bangkokbois was originally hosted on it's own domain, separate from Sawatdee Network, I think it is currently hosted on a sub domain of Sawatdee Network since Russ's demise, which won't affect this site's rankings or accessibility.

[scottish-guy]

..I am assuming you "hung" yourself along with the other cosmetic procedures?

The only thing left to to is the bumhole bleaching I read about recently.

[christianpfc]

Also the well-read Bangkokbois site had a fair share of naked pics every week without anyone ever raising objections or concerns.
He had to change from wordpress to a different hosting company after violating wordpress' terms of service.

[Tobi]

He had to change from wordpress to a different hosting company after violating wordpress' terms of service.

Most hosting co's won't permit adult content on shared servers with a shared IP address. If Google decides to "adultify" the IP address, then everyone sharing that IP address suffers. Some hosting co's like Namecheap will allow adult content on Virtual Private Servers (VPS) as long as it's under a unique IP address, otherwise you're likely to need a dedicated server or a specific adult entertainment hosting service.