Imminent departure

[Marsilius]

I first visited Pattaya in 1993. Thereafter I went there at least twice - and often more frequently than that - every year until Christmas 2013. But, after that particular holiday, I called a halt - largely because of the influx of appallingly behaved Russian tourists who were spoiling my enjoyment of the beach, the bars and even public transport.

In less than 48 hours time I will be returning to Pattaya for the first time in more than two years. A friend reports that (a) the Russians are largely gone, and (b) there have been major changes in the layout of Dongtan beach - so that it's even closed completely these days every Wednesday. He is, though, not the most observant of travellers, so let me ask all of you - what other changes, if any, will I notice that have occurred over the past couple of years?

Even guidance on increased prices - of any of the local speciality goods and services - will be much appreciated so that I don't embarrass myself!

[francois]

Lots of very large double-deck buses carrying millions and millions of Chinese tourists clog the streets.

[dinagam]

The stretch between Poseidon hotel & The Venue in Jomtian complex is teeming with host bars with friendly guys from Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, Myanmar, but I'm yet to meet a Vietnamese.
A delightful pot of tea will set you back 50 baht. Your hosts' beer 70 baht, orange juice 100 baht only. The sofa on the terrace can seat two or three comfortably. Quite a relaxing place to be apres dinner.

[Marsilius]

Thanks for that tip, dinagam. I'm renting an apartment in View Talay 7, so popping over to Jomtien Complex couldn't be easier. A Khmer, Laotian or Burmese boy will no doubt make a nice change...

Any further thoughts or suggestions from anyone will be gratefully received.

[Up2U]

Speaking as a Jomtien resident all comments posted are on the mark. The Russians have greatly diminished in numbers but still present (mostly young families in Jomtien). The weather in Pattaya has been delightful recently, not too warm with nice breezes at the beach. Bangkok has been hot so I am told. Several new restaurants to try; the Sandbar (old remodeled Sea Falcon), La Tervana, Pastrami on Rye and the French Garden.

[Marsilius]

I look forward to sampling those restaurants. The old Sea Falcon was always a good spot for breakfast, so I particularly look forward to trying out its successor.

[colmx]

As Francois points out about the Chinese bus groups have replaced the Russian groups... The Chinese tend to keep to themselves and you rarely observe them out after 21.00 at night...

Other noticeable changes:
- A lot more Indian tourists than before - they gather in crowds on the pavements and block the way whilst they try to group haggle for anything and everything! They can also be quite aggressive if they believe you are trying to usurp them whilst they are haggling with a baht bus driver. I have also observed them successfully haggling with door men of Boyboyboy for the price of a drink.

- The Shisha bars are all gone and no Shisha's are available in the bars/clubs any more - as a result smoking has crept back in and is a lot more commonplace than before

- The fashion for "big hair" has abated and as a result many guys are not as coiffured as before! (that could also be down to lack of money!)

- If you see a fat boy in a gogo - he is likely to be Thai. The fit ones tend to be from neighbouring countries

- Too many boys are wearing braces these days. A lot of it is for fashion and not for any orthodontic purpose!

- General observation from last 5 years...The boys are a lot less fussy about showering before and after sex

[Dodger]

Marsilius,

I'm pleased to tell you that the prices of local speciality goods and services has not changed in the past 15 years (at least) which is a bit bewildering, but nice.

[Marsilius]

Thanks to you both, colmx and Dodger, for such useful and practical information. I don't fly out until Saturday morning (19th), so all information provided before then will be gratefully received and processed.

[Up2U]

I look forward to sampling those restaurants. The old Sea Falcon was always a good spot for breakfast, so I particularly look forward to trying out its successor.

If you like the old Sea Falcon I think you will enjoy the new Sandbar. Choice of traditional English or American breakfast which comes with mini-pancakes. Inside there is an unlimited coffee /tea/toast bar. For lunch, their chicken or club sandwiches are quite good.

[neddy3]

As Francois points out about the Chinese bus groups have replaced the Russian groups... The Chinese tend to keep to themselves and you rarely observe them out after 21.00 at night...

Other noticeable changes:
- A lot more Indian tourists than before - they gather in crowds on the pavements and block the way whilst they try to group haggle for anything and everything! They can also be quite aggressive if they believe you are trying to usurp them whilst they are haggling with a baht bus driver. I have also observed them successfully haggling with door men of Boyboyboy for the price of a drink.

- The Shisha bars are all gone and no Shisha's are available in the bars/clubs any more - as a result smoking has crept back in and is a lot more commonplace than before

- The fashion for "big hair" has abated and as a result many guys are not as coiffured as before! (that could also be down to lack of money!)

- If you see a fat boy in a gogo - he is likely to be Thai. The fit ones tend to be from neighbouring countries

- Too many boys are wearing braces these days. A lot of it is for fashion and not for any orthodontic purpose!

- General observation from last 5 years...The boys are a lot less fussy about showering before and after sex

True enough that there are many coachloads of Chinese visitors about.
Also true that they rarely bother anyone, except when they are waiting for a coach pickup.
At this time, they can form effective blocks, and make moving along footpaths impossible.
Not to mention how those pickup coaches park!

Russian visitors are way down.
Those around tend to be a bit better behaved, IMHO.

I think that Arab visitors are also way down. May well be tied in with an observation above.

[Moses]

You can expect growing flow of Russians soon: Aeroflot drops round tickets price to $330.

[christianpfc]

A lot more Indian tourists than before... I have also observed them successfully haggling with door men of Boyboyboy for the price of a drink.
Details, please.

Beach road has been renovated to have two lanes for driving and one for parking and designated pick-up zones for Baht buses (don't know if they are observed).

However, the construction work is not rainy-season-proof, even before the work was finished at one end, there were craters in the pavement from washed out sand at the other end; parts of beach road look like London during the Blitz / Berlin in 1945 / the Moon (choose according to your political beliefs and sense of humor) .

Chinese tour groups can completely fill Bali Hai pier, but after 30 minutes everything is over.

[Marsilius]

You can expect growing flow of Russians soon: Aeroflot drops round tickets price to $330.

That seems odd, Moses. My understanding of the situation is that the Russian government has been encouraging holidays at home so as to boost their flagging economy. I assume that Aeroflot follows Putin's orders - so is he now more confident of his country's economic prospects?

[Dodger]

Another obvious change is that all the gold bracelets are back hanging on nails in the gold shops versus around the boys necks.

[fountainhall]

And the rouble has lost something like half its value against the US$ in the last 18 months or so. Even with cheaper airfares in US$ terms, overseas vacations for the average Russian are a great deal more expensive.

[Moses]

That seems odd, Moses. My understanding of the situation is that the Russian government has been encouraging holidays at home so as to boost their flagging economy. I assume that Aeroflot follows Putin's orders - so is he now more confident of his country's economic prospects?

Oh, in fact here is no problem with economic in general: -1.5% GDP isn't catastrophe but usual stagnation like EU or GB or US had in past. Modern Russia isn't like USSR: over 80% of business is private here now and isn't touched by stagnation too much. But falling rouble made travels 2.5 times more expensive, many Russians can afford travel abroad just once a year instead of 2-3 times: 12% of nation have travel passport (around 15 mln), and when rouble was strong it was cheaper to travel than to live in own country - just 2 years ago a lot of Russians left own homes to rent and had better life in Thailand just on money from rent: only at Samui was about 50 000 community, and was about 80 weekly direct flights btw Thailand and Russia.

Aeroflot is first Russian airline (I mean turnover), but it isn't state company over 20 years already while govt still owns about 50% of shares. Most airports also are private. After aircraft explosion in Egypt govt had cut flights to Egypt till the end of investigation, after tension with Turkey in Syria govt had cut flights to Turkey. So for now at winter season Russians have just a small choice for vacation "under the palms at winter time"- Goa, Thailand, Bali, Miami, Boracay (PH), Sanya (CH), UAE (Dubai). At past it was about 55% of tourist flow to Egypt and Turkey - this 2 countries are just in 4 hours of flight, so middle class used to have weekends at winter time there while other used Austria-Swiss-France-Slovakia mountains for skiing.

[Khor tose]

The simplest hypotheses here is while things have changed, much remains the same. Relax and have a great time Marsilius. It is a shame you never came to Chiang Mai. Would still like to meet you, but I am now back in the US.

[fountainhall]

Oh, in fact here is no problem with economic in general: -1.5% GDP isn't catastrophe but usual stagnation like EU or GB or US had in past..
If that number is correct (and other sources suggest the number is a good deal less than 1.5%), then I'd agree. But isn't the real crunch for Russia just around the corner? Oil and gas made up around 60% of the country's exports. The world glut of oil with no end in sight and Iran's oil coming on stream means Russia's export income is already vastly less than budgeted - and not even Putin knows when that scenario will end. The ruble's crash helps exports to a certain extent with oil being priced in US$. But you then have to factor in the much increased costs of imports, for Russia has to import most goods - apart from oil and vodka! :eek: This resulted in rapid inflation which averaged around 17% last year. That has now been brought down to under 10%, but it must still make life difficult for most families. And all this is before you factor in the costs of the interventions in Ukraine and Syria.

The number of weekly flights has been halved to 40. Not surprisingly, that almost exactly mirrors the drop in the number of Russian tourists last year. But how many of those had been prebooked and prepaid before December 2014 when the price of oil was still double what it us now?

[Moses]

If that number is correct (and other sources suggest the number is a good deal less than 1.5%), then I'd agree. But isn't the real crunch for Russia just around the corner? Oil and gas made up around 60% of the country's exports. The world glut of oil with no end in sight and Iran's oil coming on stream means Russia's export income is already vastly less than budgeted - and not even Putin knows when that scenario will end. The ruble's crash helps exports to a certain extent with oil being priced in US$. But you then have to factor in the much increased costs of imports, for Russia has to import most goods - apart from oil and vodka! :eek: This resulted in rapid inflation which averaged around 17% last year. That has now been brought down to under 10%, but it must still make life difficult for most families. And all this is before you factor in the costs of the interventions in Ukraine and Syria.

The number of weekly flights has been halved to 40. Not surprisingly, that almost exactly mirrors the drop in the number of Russian tourists last year. But how many of those had been prebooked and prepaid before December 2014 when the price of oil was still double what it us now?

Almost right digit 60%. Almost. 60% is digit share of all mineral resources not only oil and gas in the export. This digit also includes electricity (it is it the same group of goods by custom declaration). Titanium for Boeing, platinum for car manufacturers (is using in fuel cleaning system) and a lot of other mineral resources are still in export. Also Russia is supplier of 60% of timber for China.

Anyway: don't look at Russia through glasses of propaganda - internal consumption is much bigger in this big country than you can expect: all export of oil and gas is just 15.6% of country's GDP. And this is reason why when prices of oil failed down 3.5 times country's GDP failed down just to 1.5%. About import: after failed down oil Russian international trading balance is still positive: Russia sells more than buys in 2015. Result isn't such good how it was 2 years ago, but still good: about +100 US$ bln

Total inflation for last year was 12.5%, not 17%. Russian Federal Bank (Central Bank) is ruled by very good professionals. They made brilliant work and kicked out speculation on local currency at the beginning of crisis, rouble is in free floating without any regulation and limitation. Federal Bank is holder of $150 bln US Treasure bonds, in 2015 also they additionally bought 200 tonnes of gold to bank's treasures (it is about 1200 tonnes in total now).

You know: I'm watching situation from inside. Yes gov. has problems with financing of big projects and cuts some future plans. But it is problem of gov. and of people who is working for them, but it is less than 20% of population. "On the ground" inside of communities here no visible signs of depression or stagnation: no jobless level as 20% in Spain - here is only 6.5% and in big cities like in Moscow and Sankt-Petersburg about 3% only. Most touched by crisis is property market - it has been overheated and property prices has been much higher than even in New York or London, now it is cooled down more than 2 times.

[scottish-guy]

Getting back to the point.....

No-one has commented on the info which Marsilius received that Dongtan Beach is "closed on Wednesdays"

Yes/No?

[pennyboy]

It's not closed but none of the chair concessions are open

[dinagam]

Bring your own mats & sunscreen, and you could have the choicest real-estate under the trees for the entire day. :-)

[fountainhall]

don't look at Russia through glasses of propaganda . . . You know: I'm watching situation from inside
I happily defer to your expertise. My information is culled from various sources - but all second hand.

[Marsilius]

Now that I've arrived, I've spoken to Ritt and he confirms that the chair concessions don't operate on Wednesdays when the beach is supposedly bring cleaned. His business has suffered considerably from having fewer chairs in a much more confined space, but he is battling on.

Apart from that, I can confirm the other big change suggested earlier that there are far fewer Russians in town.

i wasn't too impressed with the replacement for Sea Falcon, however. Although the facilities - especially the toilets - are much improved, there are far fewer breakfast options available. By the way, I do recommend the new (?) Indian restaurant close to the arch over the road on the immediate approach to Jomtien beach.

Thanks to to everyone for advice and to Khor tose for the kind words.

[christianpfc]

Pattayaland sois got new surface last year, no potholes at the moment. The area with craters* on recently renovated Beach Road sidewalk is now fenced off (corrugated iron, can't see what's going on inside) for construction work.

*and at about 2 m diameter and 1 m deep I really want to evoke the idea of a crater and not of a pothole; however a crater has the material from the hole as a ring**, whereas those on Beach Road are just the hole with the sand washed away

**strangely, craters from bombs that I have seen in Xiang Khuang / Phonsavan in Lao (plain of jars) and Cu Chi in Vietnam from the Vietnam war had no ring from the material thrown out

The price for BBQ on the road has gone up, from 30 Baht to 50 Baht. I eat chicken heart, chicken liver and sticky rice every night I'm in Pattaya, and it used to be 30 Baht (from memory), now it's 50 Baht (each skewer with meat 20 and sticky rice 10). http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2014/05/grilled-chicken-heart-and-liver.html