Bar off, clothes on.

[bucknaway]

What is the average tip for a no sex off?

On this trip to Thailand, I hope to see a guy I like at scorpion bar. I plan to off him and just hang out with him for a couple of hours. No sex.

I pLan to do the same thing with a guy that works at boys, boys, boys.

I'm wondering what the appropriate tip would be?

There won't be any groping, kissing, flirting or anything of a sexual nature going on between us.

[Up2U]

I would pay the same as any other short time off. No sex is your idea, not his, even if you off a boy for dinner or clubbing.

[neddy3]

The same tip you would have given if sex occurred?

It is you making the choice about what does or does not happen.
The boy's need to make money has not changed.

If you don't agree, then negotiate with the boy about what is the plan, and how much, before the off happens.

[cdnmatt]

Time is money. He expects X baht for Y hours, so would have to negotiate with him. For example, the one guy I regularly offered previously I flipped from 1500 baht/week to 500 baht & 3 times/week. Difference being, he's now my Thai teacher, and no sex involved. I can learn the words & phrases myself, but still need help with pronounciation.

Sex between us just wasn't going to work, but I didn't want to cut his extra income off, because I know he needs it. So I offered this arrangement, and he accepted.

[fountainhall]

If you asked a car rental company for a car for a few hours and just wanted to stand and admire it, you'd still be charged the full rate even though you were not driving the thing. There's no difference between taking a bar boy out either for sex or a chat. By taking him off, you deny him the income he might be making by being offed by someone else.

If you want to pay less with no sex involved, make an arrangement to have lunch with him during his off-duty hours.

[catawampuscat]

If you know the boys well enough to want only their company to talk, it's a no brainer.
Just talk to the boy and tell him you don't want sex and see how much they want for their time.
Some farangs tip more if they want anal sex and less if they just want to stroke a naked body and
cuddle. One American I know insists
on coming three times in the boys butt during an off.
He explains it to the boy and mamasan and is almost always disappointed. Btw, he's despised by the boys as
he treats them like they are just a hole.
He could be full of shit and bragging about his prowess and what he thinks a man should be doing. He claims he doesn't
care if they even have a penis and the only thing he does is top. He offs lady boys and ladies too.

[scottish-guy]

Sounds like your American acquaintance and LatintopXXX could form a team.

First of all Latin could talk the price down to 500B - on the strength of the boy's bunghole being as loose an old woman's.

Then, after they have ridden the boy (like a pony) 3 times each (with internal cumming to keep Mr Yank happy), Latin could call the boy a whore and throw the money on the floor.

I'm sure it would be a hit.

:rolleyes:

But, to get back to the topic, I'm in agreement with others - the tip should be the same whether its for sex or for other activities.
After all chat could fill an hour whereas it might take only 30 seconds for sex (or is that just me?)

[bucknaway]

Thanks guys, I can't help but think you all are under the impression that I am trying to find a way to be cheap with the guys which i'm not. There are 2 guys I like and simply want to be nice to them by offing them and maybe going someplace else to have a drink together or share a bite to eat. I don't plan to take up no more than 1/2 an hour of their time.

I don't want to negotiate with him as that would put a different spin and feel to what I am doing. I am simply paying for a potential friend to have a 30 min break from work and to give him a little money. My question is what would be the appropriate tip/gift in that situation?

If you have an answer I would be happy to know it even if it requires the use of a soapbox. (Smile)

[cdnmatt]

Thinking about this, in your situation, I wouldn't really "negotiate". I'd come up with a number in my mind, and stick with it. For example, "hey man, want to take a quick break for an hour, go for a quick drink and maybe something to eat? Don't worry, no sex. I'll pay everything, plus tip you 500 baht to be nice. What do you think?"

If he says no, then just say "no problem", and leave. Always a decent chance when he sees you walking away he'll come running up and say, "ok, ok, I'll come". Besides, your deal would be more than fair any way.

[Dodger]

One American I know insists
on coming three times in the boys butt during an off.
He explains it to the boy and mamasan and is almost always disappointed.

I wonder if he's disappointed due to the fact that he can only cum 3 times in his dreams - or the fact that the boys fall asleep waiting for him to cum the first time. In either case, the guy sounds like a real piece of work.

I'm always amazed when I hear about punters negotiating their sexual preferences with the boys or the mamasans. In the first place the boys and/or mamasans will tell them anything they want to hear to secure the off, and secondly, the sex will never be as good because the boy (who now feels like a piece of cold meat) has devaluated the punter before they even step out of the bar. By devaluate I mean the boy gains a perspective that the punter is a shallow person, lacking in substance (bad karma). Inevitably, the sex will be equally as shallow and lacking in substance.

Contrary to what others have said here, I have taken boys with me from the bars many times just to go out and have fun, i.e., play some pool, down a few beers at another bar or hit a karaoke club for a bottle of whiskey and some of that loud music some of you guys hate. I usually tip him (or them) 500 baht when the nights over. They always seem pleased with this arrangement and seem eager do it again. Some of the boys (not all) enjoy a night away from the bar just to have a good time, but are far as those SEXUAL NEGOTIATORS are involved they're probably better off just sticking to the short time offs because I doubt a Thai boy would consider a night out with a person like this as being fun.

[Up2U]

Thanks guys, I can't help but think you all are under the impression that I am trying to find a way to be cheap with the guys which i'm not. There are 2 guys I like and simply want to be nice to them by offing them and maybe going someplace else to have a drink together or share a bite to eat. I don't plan to take up no more than 1/2 an hour of their time.

I don't want to negotiate with him as that would put a different spin and feel to what I am doing. I am simply paying for a potential friend to have a 30 min break from work and to give him a little money. My question is what would be the appropriate tip/gift in that situation?

If you have an answer I would be happy to know it even if it requires the use of a soapbox. (Smile)

My answer would be the same as before simply because you are "offing" the boy from his place of work and the expectation is to pay the going rate. I have done exactly what you are suggesting in years past. What you might do is to buy him lunch or dinner before work and explain this so there are no misunderstandings.

[catawampuscat]

Good advice from cdnmatt. Right to the point.
Most boybars have outdoor seating, where one can easily chat for 30 min.
In Pattaya; Boyzboyzboyz, Funny boys, Toy boys, A-bomb, Xboys, Dream boys, etal, all have relatively
quiet outdoor seating, where customers can buy drinks and talk with the boys.

[catawampuscat]

Sounds like your American acquaintance and LatintopXXX could form a team.

First of all Latin could talk the price down to 500B - on the strength of the boy's bunghole being as loose an old woman's.

Then, after they have ridden the boy (like a pony) 3 times each (with internal cumming to keep Mr Yank happy), Latin could call the boy a whore and throw the money on the floor.

I'm sure it would be a hit.

:rolleyes:

But, to get back to the topic, I'm in agreement with others - the tip should be the same whether its for sex or for other activities.
After all chat could fill an hour whereas it might take only 30 seconds for sex (or is that just me?)

What's happened to Latintop? Maybe he moved on to a true S/M torture forum with liked minded men?

[latintopxxx]

scotty and dodger, soooo nice that u miss me.....and scotty...yes u almost got me down to a T. Only u gotta get your timing right...I would agree to a 1000 for say a 3 hour fuck date...and renegotiate down when he failed to meet expectations...as in wants to go after an hour because be cant take the pounding...like thats what the stooopid fucker is paid for and cant even get that right!!!

[latintopxxx]

....and dodger ...all this talk about shallow and devalue..and the fact that unless u treat the whore like your life partner that somehow its not right!!! What planet do u inhabit?? I take great pleasure in offing a gogo and treating him like an object...I dont need him to like me...I pay so he has to like me...and he must simply assume the positions i want him to assume. Its sooo simple that even a Thai gogo can understand...and most do. In the vast majority of my dates the only words spoken r my instructions and occasionally my sniggers at his discomfort. and yes when im done I take additional pleasure in treating the gogo like a spent item...like Im finished so what r u waitng for...just throw your clothes on...pick up the cash from the floor...thank me...and go.

[Dodger]

....and dodger ...all this talk about shallow and devalue..and the fact that unless u treat the whore like your life partner that somehow its not right!!! What planet do u inhabit?? I take great pleasure in offing a gogo and treating him like an object...I dont need him to like me...I pay so he has to like me...and he must simply assume the positions i want him to assume. Its sooo simple that even a Thai gogo can understand...and most do. In the vast majority of my dates the only words spoken r my instructions and occasionally my sniggers at his discomfort. and yes when im done I take additional pleasure in treating the gogo like a spent item...like Im finished so what r u waitng for...just throw your clothes on...pick up the cash from the floor...thank me...and go.


Thanks a lot Cat...you just woke Doctor Demented.

Hey latin...so nice to hear from you again. I thought that maybe you had been captured.

I'm sure they're just thrilled when you toss the cash on the floor, but you left out the most romantic part when you stand on their faces. Oh well...maybe you're just taming with time. Don't let my remarks about...shallow...devaluated...bad karma, etc. bother you. Just crawl back in your cave, cover your head with that black cape of yours, and continue dreaming about your leading role in the re-make of Caligula.

[newalaan2]

What is the average tip for a no sex off?

On this trip to Thailand, I hope to see a guy I like at scorpion bar. I plan to off him and just hang out with him for a couple of hours. No sex.

I pLan to do the same thing with a guy that works at boys, boys, boys.



Thanks guys, I can't help but think you all are under the impression that I am trying to find a way to be cheap with the guys which i'm not. There are 2 guys I like and simply want to be nice to them by offing them and maybe going someplace else to have a drink together or share a bite to eat. I don't plan to take up no more than 1/2 an hour of their time.
I don't think anyone would consider you are being cheap, on the contrary it's a nice generous gesture. But I think there are two distinct areas here. First are the top 1% of Pattaya boys and a large proportion of Twilight Agogo boys, for whom a better off is a realistic prospect. Then there is the other 99% of Pattaya boys and all host bar boys where unless they are in huge demand a better offer on any particular night is unlikely. I'm not sure what category your boys are in, if they are superstars and in great demand I wouldn't consider without discussing upfront and making an acceptable offer, whatever category they are in I agree with cdnmatt and Dodger in that Bt500 is fair.

I totally disagree with those who have suggested the tip for a sexual and non-sexual liason should be the same, that's absurd especially in Pattaya where the amount of boys who can command top dollar on a nightly basis is very rare. It's all down to circumstances as following experiences show. One of the boys I talk about below even did have the prospect of an off in the sunee host bar he works and he is an attractive lad, but he said he really didn't like the potential customer who had opened a bottle of whisky and all the lads in the bar were sharing. Also the potential customer had not given any assurances so he was happy for the chance to be elsewhere.

I sometimes/often off boys for a night of sanuk or non-sexual fun. I'm just back from my most recent trip so have some limited recent experiences. My visit could still be considered 'busy' season and in Pattaya had offers from boys only to pay off fee for going for a night of sanuk (and even sex) with no tip required. I took off 3 boys from Pattaya bars for sanuk evenings/nights, of course I offered and gave Bt500 tips to all, one said a tip wasn't necessary as I had paid off and he enjoyed the night with free drinks and food, of course he did accept it. The other two just accepted the Bt500 when offered at the end of the night and seemed delighted, all suggested repeats.

All liaisons basically came about when chatting generally in the bar and them asking what my plans for the evening were, I said visiting a couple of bars in North Pattaya where my Thai friends work in rock bands or Walking St or clubs/music bars and whatever and on each occasion it was they who offered to accompany me, [pbai duay!] "only pay bar, no tip ok!" Some of the lads know I have a bf and that he doesn't like the bars every single night, whereas I do, it's an essential part of my holiday! As is usual a couple of the Duks bar and Eden bar lads even offered to 'thrown in' sex if I wanted. But as Dodger experiences I find many of the lads working in the bars love a night of fun and some really enjoy the noisy music bar/club environments and likewise with Dodger give Bt500 at end of evening/night and all pleased with arrangement.

I also had a similar night with a lad who works in Silom Soi 4, I hadn't seen him for a while and he had been working Soi 4 for a few months and again it was he who offered to accompany me. He was able to get off a bit early so we went to DJ Station which closed suddenly and early at 2am! so we headed to GOD where I haven't been for ages, and it was good vibe there compared to previous visits some time ago. Had great time, he said it was rare to get a night out and was chuffed with Bt500 for taxi home, in fact he seriously said it wasn't necessary. accepted it for old times sake...haha. I had a great time too so it was win-win. I wasn't looking for anyone in DJ or GOD so it was handy to already be with someone to avoid potentially awkward approaches.

Also a counter arguement to Fountainhall's denying the boy income, for the vast majority of working boys realistically an off every night just doesn't happen so bucknaway, dodger may be offering the only prospect of income for that night, Bt500 is still better than zero.

[christianpfc]

My first thought was what a sad individual you must be that you have to pay people to hang out with you, because I could call 10 right now and hang out with them in 30 minutes for free, or maybe pay for a drink or a meal.

However if you come for holiday, want someone who speaks English (do those you write about do?), handsome and want it now and here, then it makes sense.


There's no difference between taking a bar boy out either for sex or a chat. By taking him off, you deny him the income he might be making by being offed by someone else.

That was my first idea as well, you pay the boy for his time, regardless of what you do. However, the chance of the boy being offed by someone else is very low; I see a lot of room for negotiation, 500 Baht for hanging out is very reasonable, bordering on generous.

Of course if you like the boy and want to support him financially, pay the full rate, but then you wouldn't have asked this question?

Offer 500 Baht, no discussion, no negotiation, just yes or no. Think about it: if the feeling is mutual, he will agree. If he is greedy or does not enjoy hanging out with you he will ask for more, but do you want to hang out with someone who is greedy or counts the minutes until it's over and he can go back?

[Smiles]

Thanks guys, I can't help but think you all are under the impression that I am trying to find a way to be cheap with the guys which i'm not. There are 2 guys I like and simply want to be nice to them by offing them and maybe going someplace else to have a drink together or share a bite to eat. I don't plan to take up no more than 1/2 an hour of their time.
I don't know why you don't get what the large majority of replies are saying (other than reverting into the fetal position and squeaking nonsense about how nobody understands you): you take a guy out of the bar ... you pay the regular off fee. Period.
It matters not a tinker's damn why you take him off. No one in the bar gives a shit, just pay me the money bro.
How long have you been coming to Thailand anyway? Must be more than 10+ years now.

If you really want to have a sweet tete-a-tete with him: take him off, pay the off fee, and ask him if he'd like to join you for lunch the next day. He'll probably be on his own time around 1:00 pm.

[bucknaway]

Everyone calm down.... I'm not talking about taking some random stranger from a bar. The 2 different guys I talk with from time to time using line. I'm not interested in them sexualy and I just want to be nice to them without the act of kindness turning into them stalking me for money or them fearing they will lose out on a well paid off from another guy.

I'm not going to give them cash as a gift. I'm their chat friend. When I arrive in pattaya, i will go to his bar in the complex, sit with him, buy him a drink and ask him if he wants to join me on the beach for a while or do something else.

I may just off him and sit with him at a different bar in the same soi. Before we part, I'll give him the gift I have for him and also provide him a tip and mention that I want to tip him because I am took up his work time. After that, I know I will see him from time to time and we will greet each other warmly.

I'm just trying to be nice to friends that work in a bar.

[cdnmatt]

Come on Bucky, don't get so defensive. After all, you're the one who started the topic asking, "how can I be friendly to a hooker, without making him angry at me?". :)

Really, it's Thailand, just enjoy. Go visit the guy, say, "well, I'm hungry, and going to grab something to eat. Want to come?". If he looks confused, just chuckle and say, "don't worry, no sex... if you want, I'll tip you 500 to be nice", and off you gu into the sunset.

[Smiles]

Actually I owe Buck an apology.
My reply above ~ in all it's misplaced high dudgeon ~ was in reference to the 'off fee' ... but in fact, re-reading Bucky's original post, his point was all about the negotiable, and very different, 'tip fee' for services rendered. Somewhere along the line I got my wires crossed quite badly and mixed the two up.

Sorry Bucky, and my sincere apologies.

[bucknaway]

Not defensive at all.
I think you all have a kind act confused with a working proposition. I'm not offing a stranger. I'm showing kindness to a friend.

[bucknaway]

Actually I owe Buck an apology.
My reply above ~ in all it's misplaced high dudgeon ~ was in reference to the 'off fee' ... but in fact, re-reading Bucky's original post, his point was all about the negotiable, and very different, 'tip fee' for services rendered. Somewhere along the line I got my wires crossed quite badly and mixed the two up.

Sorry Bucky, and my sincere apologies.

No problem. I was wondering how the advice was all l going so wrong haha

[colmx]

I have to concur with Dodger and Newallan on this one...

Most nights I get a lot of questions from friends and acquaintances as to where I am going later that night and they all offer their company.

In these cases its usually a case of me paying the drinks tab and for food and taxi after the disco or pub. The odd time I will also pay their off fee (e.g. on Morlam night) No tip is offered or expected.
Those that take the piss or act the ass - don't get a re-invite.

Of course some end up spending the night and there are tips involved!

In the case of a boy I off from the bar. I never negotiate up front... just ask him if he wants to join me in the disco
If we hit it off, then he comes back to the room for fun
If we don't hit it off, or gets too drunk (happens a lot!) then the tip is 500-700-1000 depending on where he has been offed from and how long he has stayed...

Edit: I should add that BF is usually with me most of the time, so that makes negotiation easier and misunderstandings less frequent!

[Marsilius]

I'm not offing a stranger. I'm showing kindness to a friend.

If any of us intends to show kindness to a friend, surely we don't usually do it while he's at his job where he's gone with the intention of earning a living. Why not wait until his private time (the afternoon?) and demonstrate your kindness at a time of day which would be more appropriate in any other sphere of life?

[cdnmatt]

Actually, you said you have them on Line, right? So you have their contact info, hence no need to resort to disturbing them at work?

Why not just drop them a message and ask, "hey man, I'm coming to Thailand soon, can I take you out for lunch some day?".

Buck, you're starting to sound like a 9 year old who has a crush on a girl, but is too shy to talk to her. :) (just playing with ya)

[Steve1903]

I offered 4 guys the option of accompanying me to morlam one evening, a night off from sex etc, 500B each. Two turned up, two did not. Decide for yourself how much you're willing to pay, ask them if they are interested. Not difficult.

[latintopxxx]

I guess we all got our kinks...some are simply lonely and want company.....

[christianpfc]

Bucky, if time permits, I will hang out with you for free!

[bucknaway]

Thanks christian, but I'm not looking for companionship. I'd also have to see how you look in the underwear I would provide you and test your skin for temperature and dampness. 😂

You guys don't get it. Yall just look at the bar guy as a whore peddling his ass.

He is a guy with the same emotions and feelings no different than those you had at his age.

Wold he enjoy to see a friend from another country take the time to visit him at work. Pay the off fee just to talk to him. Have a laugh with him, give him the gift purchased for him and provide him some cash and then let him return to work with the promise to talk again later?

You guys have no heart and I don't think you even look at the guys in the bar as human.

[lego]

Delusion can be a form of art. I'm with Marsilius on this one, if you're their friend then don't show up at their place of work, meet them when they've got free time - just like you would with a friend back home.

[bucknaway]

They are not friends back home. They are friends that spend the prime of their time working in a bar

[bucknaway]

You guys got off track. What's not up for debate is how I entrant with people in thailand. I have my style and you have yours.

But it doesn't matter anymore. I want to surprise them with some cologne. Once it's done, I'll post about it and then all of you can tell me what I did wrong😂

[christianpfc]

Delusion can be a form of art. I'm with Marsilius on this one, if you're their friend then don't show up at their place of work, meet them when they've got free time - just like you would with a friend back home.
I'm with Bucky on this. He wants to meet them at a time when they are supposed to be at work, and fortunately this can be easily arranged. Afternoon before work is a good idea, but they might be sleeping, or they are not that thrilled to meet Bucky that they would forgo other activities they have planned in that time, or they might be late for appointment.

[loke]

I used to pay for the whiskey and got together a nice group of people , sometimes we went to the disco, other times we went to the beach and got serious drunk. So it only cost me a few bottles of whiskey and thai food. Most of them were bar boys from Jomtien complex.

[latintopxxx]

yeah...whatever turns u on...works for u...like his Holiness the Pope said " who am I to judge".....personally I dont really understand the concept of paying hundreds/thousands of bhts in food/drink so that Thai guys can have a good time...and no gets naked...no one gets fucked...nah!!!

[bucknaway]

It worked out well. I offed him from his bar and we had a drink at a restaurant on the beach. I had a vanilla smoothie and he had a mango shake. I gave him his gift and we made plans to meet later. Just a lot of small talk and he appreciated being offed during the slow time at the bars.

I gave him some money and we went our separate ways.

I accomplished what I wanted to do. I kept my promise to him without having him stick to me like glue and blocking me from meeting other cute guys during my vacation.