Where did everybody go?

[bucknaway]

It looks like high season is over if there ever was a high season in Gay Thailand. When people post pics or video's of some of the bars, they almost look to be empty.
View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/sbjx4g/9)

[bucknaway]

I have to admit that Eros still looks like a fun spot

[christianpfc]

The bars will probably take pictures before bar opens. Customers are not allowed to take pictures. This is probably because other customers might be uncomfortable with appearing in the background. One day I was the first customer in Eros and asked if I could take pictures of the boys (one of staff was taking pictures already), no problem.

[Charin]

Ohh..where had the snow from last year gone?
1st. The exorbitant prices for the drinks in the establishments, especialy in Bangkok..
2nd. From 10 Boys there, 6 are straight now...so starfishes in the bed..
3th. From 10 Boys there, about 3 are handsome..the rest?..forget

[AsDaRa]

Ohh..where had the snow from last year gone?
1st. The exorbitant prices for the drinks in the establishments, especialy in Bangkok..
2nd. From 10 Boys there, 6 are straight now...so starfishes in the bed..
3th. From 10 Boys there, about 3 are handsome..the rest?..forget

Totally agree. Business could be so much better if drink prizes are lower and the boy selection better. Seems so obvious to me. The bar owners must know that too. If it is obvious for us, it should be obvious for the owners to.

[bucknaway]

It took them months and years to strangle the customer base, they will lower the prices for a week or so before they go out of business and use that as an "I told you so" that lower prices won't save the business model.

[bucknaway]

I use to like the Happy Place bar that neal ran. Once he was out of the picture, the bar turned into everything I didn't like in a bar. They pestered me to buy drinks for the ladyboy on staff, they cheated me on the bill and the show never changed.

But once they cheated me on my bill I never went back.

[sjaak327]

Those bars on Soi Twilight have always been boring. If there is no show, it even gets downright silly. I used to go one evening to see a show, but once they did hit the 250 baht drinks I didn't even go that one night.

Then again, I am not in the sex for hire business, so that might explain why I find these places boring.

[bucknaway]

I go to the bars for the show or the naughty fun I can have with the staff. It's not often that I will ever off anyone from a bar. Why hire when guys are giving it away😆

[sjaak327]

Yeah, and truth be told, years ago I found those shows highly entertaining. But the last time I went (about three years ago) I got some deja vu feeling. Coupled with 250 baht beers, I decided to not go anymore. I read on here that prices are north of 350 baht, that's taking the piss IMHO.

[bucknaway]

Yeah.... the prices are becoming outrageous. This year when I visit, I plan to be more of a picture taking tourist and save my bar visits for the weekends and limit myself to 1 or 2 bars in a night with a 500 baht bar budget per night.

That will give me more time for online hookups haha

[AsDaRa]

But why do the bar owners not change their policy? They must know their prizes and boy selection is not what it was before. What businessman are you if you willingly have a policy which only make it go worse? And if they have to charge so much because else they can't pay the monthly rent for the bar, then negotiate a lower rent. This trend can not continue.

[cdnmatt]

This trend can not continue.

Maybe that's the ultimate goal -- gentrification of Sunee Plaza. I'd imagine some property developers have their eyes on that area, and would love to bulldoze it down.

[gerefan2]

Then we all go to Jomtien?.....

[lukylok]

Try lowering the rent ? You have no idea of the thai market.
And the contribution to the Bib is not negotiable either.

In Pattaya, if there is a show - ie BBB and X Boys - the drinks are reasonable. (250/300)
And most of the bars have moderate prices.

The problem is not the bars, but the customers whose income don't increase with the thai inflation.

[christianpfc]

Try lowering the rent ? You have no idea of the thai market.
And the contribution to the Bib is not negotiable either.

The problem is not the bars, but the customers whose income don't increase with the thai inflation.
It seems to be like that, property owners rather let their property be empty for extended time than lower rent price.

Inflation in drink prices in Soi Twilight was 8-10 % per year over the last 5 years (since I started monitoring, or got old prices from elsewhere), much higher than inflation elsewhere.

Maybe they are applying market research: better one customer who pays 400 Baht per drink than 2 customers at 200 Baht per drink. Same for the boys: better one at 2000 short time than 2 at 1000.

[Forky123]

Same for the boys: better one at 2000 short time than 2 at 1000.As long as you are the boy getting the 2000. Nice for the popular boys, hard on the ones that need a large customer base to see any offs. Overall though I think the bar owners know their market better than we do. Given the dwindling number of punters I'd bet that halving their drink prices would not result in twice as many customers or drinks sold. I think they are in rather a bind as more and more of their customers use phone apps and web sites to find their boy du jour.

[AsDaRa]

Try lowering the rent ?

The problem is not the bars, but the customers whose income don't increase with the thai inflation.

I don't think inflation in Thailand is high. 20 years ago short time with boy was 1000-1500 baht (I was told). That is still the average prize for short time. Compare that to Western Europe over the last 20 years.

[lukylok]

That is part of the problem, because cost of living does increase, not as slowly as in Western Europe.
Which makes the job of bar boy less attractive and why there are less thai guys.

Take the Burma, Lao and Cambodian boys off the scene and the bars will be empty.

[arsenal]

I've always thought that if I had a bar I would charge less for the boys drink. That would encourage more customers to buy drinks and therefore generate more offs and therefore generate more boys who want to work in the bar. The boys drink is basically water anyway so you'd still make a healthy profit.

[sjaak327]

Try lowering the rent ? You have no idea of the thai market.
And the contribution to the Bib is not negotiable either.

In Pattaya, if there is a show - ie BBB and X Boys - the drinks are reasonable. (250/300)
And most of the bars have moderate prices.

The problem is not the bars, but the customers whose income don't increase with the thai inflation.

250/300 baht reasonable ? Inflation ? The correct term for this is outrageous. Not so long ago prices in those bars were 150 baht against 90 in normal bars, the normal bars are around 99 baht now against 250/300, funny how inflation is being applied differently.

[lukylok]

If you find it outrageous or you can't afford it, just don't go. Nobody forces you to frequent those bars.

[sjaak327]

Sure, I stopped going there. Reasonable is not the right word to describe those prices, neither is inflation. That's just silly, you are being ripped off is the message here.

They sure seem determined to put themselves out of business. A blowjob and a mediocre fuckshow do not justify those prices.

[cdnmatt]

From what you guys say, it sounds as though the bars are concentrating more on the profits, then on their customers. Where do they think their profits come from?

Sounds like more of a, "Go! Go! Go!" type of atmosphere. Kind of a, get in, buy your 300 baht beer, choose your guy, buy him a beer, pay your off fee + beers, and get out type of thing. That doesn't make any sense, especially when there's no customers. Make us feel warm and fuzzy inside, and we'll stick around for more than a quick beer, and drop far more money into the place than we would have.

I remember even mentioning this before years ago on SGT. Have a little classier of an establishment, some nice sofa tables, good pub food available, comfortable environment, cute shirtless guys as waiters, free wi-fi, etc. Try to entice people to stay a couple hours, instead of the "get-in get-out quick" regiment. If they had a place like that here, my cost of living would probably double. :)

[bucknaway]

I find it outragous and I spend far less in the bars and don't hop around so much. Even in Bangkok I will visit soi twilight but I don't go into the bars often. I'll pick one night and chose the one bar I will enter and buy one drink, watch the show and leave and go to the less costly bars to sit with the staff and buy drinks. I guess if more do as I do that will force the prices at soi twilight to start charging over $500 baht per drink which will reduce the customer base, reducing the number of guys, reducing the number of customers, so the bars will raise the prices.

[bucknaway]

I guess that's why I'm enjoying pattaya more than bkk. In pattaya, guys are just 10 baht away.

And the bars are not charging crazy soi twilight prices.

[fountainhall]

Business could be so much better if drink prizes are lower and the boy selection better. Seems so obvious to me. The bar owners must know that too. If it is obvious for us, it should be obvious for the owners to.
Unfortunately Thai logic works in weird and not so wonderful ways. It's a fact that the customer base for the vast majority of the bars has changed radically in the last decade and more. Despite there being a vicious cycle in play, it's clear few of the owners seem to have any interest in adapting to major market changes.

There are not nearly as many Thai boys interested in working in the bars. Whereas most used to be gay or at least bisexual, a large proportion is now straight. The cuter ones are now frequently from neighbouring countries. As soon as the BIB appear - at least in Soi Twilight, they disappear presumably because most do not have work visas. In many bars there is a sense of boredom up on stage, as if the boys know only too well they are not going to get the number of offs boys used to get years ago. According to one mamasan I have known for ages, despite all the government talk about rooting out corruption, the tea money paid to operate a bar remains high. About 3 years ago I was told that it was Bt. 160,000/month in Twilight, but I have no way of verifying that.

Then there are the patrons. As many posts point out, Twilight is now frequented more by Asians than westerners. Most of these guys and some girls are not so interested in offing the boys. They want the experience of the show - and little more. They're quite happy nursing one drink at up to Bt. 500 and then they depart. To them it's cheap entertainment. Without offs, a bar's income has to be made up in other ways - i.e. higher drink prices. Taking visitors to one bar at Chinese New Year, the high price did not put off the crowd - many obviously visitors - that packed the bar.

Now the massive rise in meeting through social media has also affected business. It has resulted in zero changes that I can see. Before his blog and posts sadly disappeared, shamelessmack outlined in detail on gaythailand.com how he would totally change the business model of bars to account for the fact that different groups of people look for different experiences in a go-go type bar. A lot of posters agreed. Not even one of the faring owners even considered a change. So we can all moan about the present state of nightlife entertainment and drink prices, and the older ones amongst us look back with happy memories of the "glory" days of the 1980s and 90s. But they're gone - and the reality is they're just not going to come back!

[scottish-guy]

Notwithstanding all that Fountainhall says (and he is correct) - I have to suggest there are still sufficient of us old dinosaurs left whose custom would enable a bar to make a healthy profit and keep the boys busy - if only the owner would cater for what we want rather than what he wants to fob us off with.

What we want seems fairly predictable: A tidy non-smoking venue with air-con and clean toilets (featuring hot water, soap, dryer, and toilet paper), reasonably priced non watered-down drinks in clean glasses, and BEER MATS to absorb condensation from bottles/glasses so that you dont soak your pants every time you lift your glass to take a drink. Possibly even offering snackettes to purchase - or at least a few FREE peanuts or crisps - with your drinks.

Add to that, off fees which are not scary, a selection of boys from twinks to 30 who do more than spend their time looking at their phones and shuffling from one foot to the other (NB: those who like 50+ can always go to BBB :D).

Add to that, staff/management who are actually interested in gaining/keeping our business rather than mamasans whose sole purpose in life seems to be to divest you of as much money as possible - not in return for being of any use whatsoever but apparently just for being fucking annoying, and owners who acknowledge your presence rather than just waft through the premises with their nose in the air like a pimp version of Lord Snooty.

Really - it's not much to ask for is it?

If there was even ONE such bar in Pattaya I suspect it could still be very successful despite the fact that it would be catering for a bunch of oddballs and misfits whose idea of fun isn't sitting with one beer for an hour and touching up the boys for 20B.

No?

[fountainhall]

it's not much to ask for is it?
I totally agree. I can understand the Thais may be afraid of change. Yet over the years there have been a number of expat bar managers in both Bangkok and Pattaya. Why have they not even considered changing their business models?

I suppose one factor a manager would have to consider is the off season when business now seems quite bad. But a properly conceived business model should be able to take that into consideration with profits from the peak season helping to subsidise off seasons. Do bar managers even think about business models, I wonder? I suspect their bars are mostly vanity projects - and that's why they fail.

[cdnmatt]

Part of it might also be the "instant gratification" mindset I'm sure we've all witnessed here. Don't worry too much about what could happen in a month or year from now, but instead, worry about tonight and tonight only.

I'm pretty much with scottish-guy though, and basically same as I said above. I don't want to go for a stroll down the street, only to be dragged into a bar by a bunch of doormen. The bar itself isn't exactly the cleanest of environments, then within 30 seconds have a pushy mamsan sitting 2 inches from me, rubbing my leg, begging for a drink and for me to choose a guy, etc. All this to the euro-trash music they play at ear defeaning volumes. How can I possibly relax like that? Of course I'm going to be in & out quick, especially when a beer costs $11.

Give me a place I can bring my laptop, hang out, enjoy myself, have a couple beers, do a little work on the side, all while being served by cute shirtless waiters who are offable. Maybe order a chicken caesar salad, or some wings and share them with someone I decide to sit with me, or whatever. No pushy mamasans, no loud as hell euro-trash music -- just a nice, clean place to relax catered towards gay. Hell, I'd probably keep the bar open just myself with how much I'd spend there.

[arsenal]

Perhaps the business model of the gogo bar is flawed. Over the last 10 years so many have closed and very few have opened. Sunnee is down to three whereas in the past it had a dozen and Boyztown has less every year with Wild West Boys and Copa the latest to close or change. On my last trip I had 12 actions with 9 different boys. I paid the off fee or massage fee every time and was happy to do so because I love the idea of an actual genuine sex shop, ie: a shop that sells sex rather than underwear.

But I cannot think of a business model for a gogo bar that will work both in terms of attracting customers and making a profit. Either one is possible , but both is another matter.

[a447]

"If there was even ONE such bar in Pattaya I suspect it could still be very successful"

SG, there WAS once a bar like that. Ironically, it was run by our old nemesis.

[scottish-guy]

Ah yes a447 - that'll be the bar I had to go into dressed as Elton John in order to avoid the owner having me beaten up by his henchmen. So, forgive me if I don't classify that as "customer centred" :D

There was nothing wrong with Neal's bar - except Neal.

I suppose if Norman Bates were to take over Le Cafe Royale, some people might come onto SGT to comment that the food was quite nice.

:D

SURFCREST/MOSES: The emoticon selection needs expanded - the man with the party hat and blow-tickler is sorely missed.

[Moses]

SURFCREST/MOSES: The emoticon selection needs expanded - the man with the party hat and blow-tickler is sorely missed.

I can do almost everything, but I can't do that "almost everything" at once :) Yes, I know: we had about 30 smilies at old forum and only 11 here. It can wait a little bit, and I don't forget about it :)

[Bert]

What's the name of the guy on the first pic in Eros?
Is het still there?
What a cutie!

[fountainhall]

I don't think inflation in Thailand is high. 20 years ago short time with boy was 1000-1500 baht (I was told). That is still the average prize for short time.
You were told wrong and you make assumptions. 20 years ago Bt. 500 - 700 was perfectly acceptable for a short time.

[Brad the Impala]

And forty five years ago it was 100 Baht!

[Marsilius]

You were told wrong and you make assumptions. 20 years ago Bt. 500 - 700 was perfectly acceptable for a short time.

Yes, 500 was gratefully and happily received at the beginning of the 1990s. It had gone up to 700 or so by the end of that decade.

[Oliver]

I appreciate that costs are much higher in BT than Sunee but I'd be interested in how a bar run on similar line to Sunny Boys would fare there.

[a447]

What's the name of the guy on the first pic in Eros?
Is het still there?
What a cutie!

His name is Nut.
He moved from Eros as soon as Sunny Boys opened and was working there with his brother. When that closed they both left Pattaya and apparently returned home to Chiang Mai.
He's a lovely guy.

[AsDaRa]

And forty five years ago it was 100 Baht!

My God you must be old :-)
A history of 40 year travel to Thailand! I hope to be able to say that too some day.