FAA just shitted on Thai Airways

[cdnmatt]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/aviat ... index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/02/aviation/thailand-aviation-safety-faa/index.html)

Downgraded. No new flights to/from the US, and can not expand operations to/from the US. Apparently, most countries follow suit with what the FAA says, so we'll see what happens in regards to European and Australian flights.

I guess they're not keeping up with international standards, so got downgraded as a result.

To provide a factual statement rather than Matt's usual emotive take on life ("shitted"), the FAA has downgraded TG to the same category as Air Asia Indonesia - you know, the flight that crashed a year ago through, apparently, poor pilot training, as Surfcrest has posted elsewhere (http://sawatdeenetwork.com/forum/contact-lost-with-air-asia-flight-over-indonesia-t31350-15.html). Draw your own conclusions about flying with Thai

[cdnmatt]

No. The FAA didn't just downgrade one airline. They downgraded all of Thailand, according to the article. The FAA decided Thai airports aren't up to code.

Apparently, it got the General a little pissy too.

[fountainhall]

The FAA didn't shit on anyone. Thailand did it all on its own in a big way. If as expected the Europeans follow suit, the blame game will get humungous. It will affect not only TG which serves 12 European destinations, but also the code shares of airlines like Bangkok Air.

In the past Europe has introduced long term although temporary bans on Indonesian and Philippine carriers. Whilst a ban on TG is considered unlikely, it will be hampered through a ban on new flights and using different aircraft. New charter services for the high season would also be affected.

In typical Thai fashion, this action has been on the horizon for years. To be fair, the FAA has only followed the International Civil Aviation Organisation ruling. Last February Thailand failed an ICAO audit with a whopping 560 aviation safety faults and was given 90 days to correct them. Many remain uncorrected and non-Thais now have been brought in to solve many of them.

These failings include general air safety issues at Thai airports as well as air traffic control. The country's entire civil aviation operations are now under the microscope.

Yet the failings go back many years to the Yingluck government and perhaps beyond. Now the turkeys have come home to roost with the present government admitting it may take till August 2016 before it can meet all ICAO audit requirements.

To provide a factual statement rather than Matt's usual emotive take on life ("shitted"), the FAA has downgraded TG to the same category as Air Asia Indonesia - you know, the flight that crashed a year ago through, apparently, poor pilot training, as Surfcrest has posted elsewhere (http://sawatdeenetwork.com/forum/contact-lost-with-air-asia-flight-over-indonesia-t31350-15.html). Draw your own conclusions about flying with ThaiYou are correct it is all of Thailand's airlines, not just TG. Nevertheless let's face it most of us never bother with routes other than getting to Bangkok from Yurrup, Orstraya, or the good ol' US of A so it's TG or nothing as far as Thai airlines go. However thank you for reminding me indirectly that I have use Air Asia in the past for jaunts with Board members who now prefer to remain anonymous or deny it ever happened; January's not that far away ...

[latintopxxx]

pity as I've always enjoyed flying with Thai, even in economy class.

[cdnmatt]

Obviously I titled the subject inappropriately. It's not Thai Airways. It's Thailand's aviation infrastructure that's being deemed unsafe.

In other words, Thailand's airports suck, and don't adhere to international safety standards. Not too surprising, considering the construction fiasco after they first completed the new BKK airport.

[scottish-guy]

Obviously I titled the subject inappropriately....


Indeed you did - surely the past tense is SHAT

?

[bkkguy]

Obviously I titled the subject inappropriately. It's not Thai Airways. It's Thailand's aviation infrastructure that's being deemed unsafe.

In other words, Thailand's airports suck, and don't adhere to international safety standards. Not too surprising, considering the construction fiasco after they first completed the new BKK airport.

this is not rocket science, I don't understand why so many people have such a problem understanding what the issue is

The FAA (and the ICOA) did not shit on any or all Thai registered airlines and did not declare that any airport in Thailand sucks and they certainly did not claim that Thailand's aviation infrastructure is unsafe - to quote from the CNN article


the FAA said Thailand's civil aviation authority failed to meet "minimum international standards."

so the problem is not with the airlines, and not with the airports, but with the Thai government's regulatory authorities that control licensing and operation of airlines and airports

there are many airlines registered in Thailand and many airports operating in Thailand - some or all may meet international standards of operation but don't look to the FAA for a decision on that, you need to look at the individual airline or airport, the FAA (and ICOA) are only commenting on the regulatory authorities and once the regulatory authorities again meet international standards they may well be able to re-license or re-certify these airlines or airports with no changes to the individual airline's or airport's operation procedures, or maybe not but there is nothing in the FAA (or ICOA) reports to decide one way or the other


To provide a factual statement rather than Matt's usual emotive take on life ("shitted"), the FAA has downgraded TG to the same category as Air Asia Indonesia - you know, the flight that crashed a year ago through, apparently, poor pilot training

yes draw your own conclusions about flying with Thai but don't do it based on such fundamentally flawed and factually incorrect statements such as this

bkkguy

[bruce_nyc]

Is TG an abbreviation for Thai Airways?

What I don't understand is... If they declared that "the Thai government's regulatory authorities that control licensing and operation of airlines and airports".... or Thai airports.... or any other Thailand airport related issue.... is what was "downgraded" for not meeting "minimum international standards"....

(1) Why would specific AIRLINES be penalized... or barred from routes to the US or EU or whereever...? What does this have to do with the safety of the AIRLINES...?

and

(2) What about all of the USA Airline companies flying in to these supposedly unsafe Thailand airports....? They are fine to land in unsafe Thai airports....? But supposedly safe Thai airlines are not safe enough to fly into the USA....?

I mean, American Airlines, United, Delta, and dozens of other airlines fly in to BKK too.... not only Thai Airways. If it's the AIRPORT that's supposedly "not safe enough"... why wouldn't this affect ALL airlines that fly to Bangkok....?

I don't see what this issue has to do with the safety of airlines that just happen to be Thai companies.... or are based in Thailand.

so the problem is not with the airlines, and not with the airports, but with the Thai government's regulatory authorities that control licensing and operation of airlines and airports

To provide a factual statement rather than Matt's usual emotive take on life ("shitted"), the FAA has downgraded TG to the same category as Air Asia Indonesia - you know, the flight that crashed a year ago through, apparently, poor pilot trainingyes draw your own conclusions about flying with Thai but don't do it based on such fundamentally flawed and factually incorrect statements such as this
Those of us who've read the report understand that the relationship between the regulatory authorities and the airlines they regulate is symbiotic. In Indonesia's case, the regulatory authority did not require levels of training for pilots that could possibly have prevented the crash. Therefore - it can be inferred - TG's pilots are possibly also lacking in training. One of my Australian correspondents (no, not that one, it was one of Kommie's Boys) sent me a link to an article about the crash report that contained the statement "Thai Airways has been under increased surveillance this year [by the Australian regulator]". Unfortunately bkkguy the problem is with the airlines, because they are so poorly regulated

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation ... ld94f.html (http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/why-the-airasia-crash-report-should-serve-as-a-wakeup-call-for-travellers-20151202-gld94f.html)

[bruce_nyc]

Well, that makes sense.....

I'm glad that they have had a fire lit under their butts.

Airline safety is not something they can just neglect.... ( like they do so many other things... )

[bkkguy]

(1) Why would specific AIRLINES be penalized... or barred from routes to the US or EU or whereever...? What does this have to do with the safety of the AIRLINES...?

most countries require that airlines that use their airspace and airports are certified by a regulatory body that meets accepted international certification to a specified level

as the Thai government's regulatory bodies no longer meet that requirement then airlines certified by those bodies may face restrictions, eg no new routes, no change or aircraft type on existing routes, or they may not - Thai Airways has already stated that meet other independent international safety requirements



(2) What about all of the USA Airline companies flying in to these supposedly unsafe Thailand airports....? They are fine to land in unsafe Thai airports....? But supposedly safe Thai airlines are not safe enough to fly into the USA....?

I mean, American Airlines, United, Delta, and dozens of other airlines fly in to BKK too.... not only Thai Airways. If it's the AIRPORT that's supposedly "not safe enough"... why wouldn't this affect ALL airlines that fly to Bangkok....?

watch my lips - no international body has ruled that Thai airports are "not safe enough", they have ruled that the Thai government's regulatory bodies that license and oversee airport operations do not meet international standards

individual airlines from other countries can make their own decision about which airports they consider "safe enough" to use

bkkguy

[bkkguy]

on 03 Dec 2015 13:50:


To provide a factual statement rather than Matt's usual emotive take on life ("shitted"), the FAA has downgraded TG to the same category as Air Asia Indonesia - you know, the flight that crashed a year ago through, apparently, poor pilot training

on 05 Dec 2015 05:27:

Those of us who've read the report understand that the relationship between the regulatory authorities and the airlines they regulate is symbiotic. In Indonesia's case, the regulatory authority did not require levels of training for pilots that could possibly have prevented the crash. Therefore - it can be inferred - TG's pilots are possibly also lacking in training

if this is the way you back up a "factual statement" I would love to see your response to unfounded speculation!

and yes I have read the SMH article and while it does state that "Thai Airways has been under increased surveillance this year" it gives no evidence that the Australian authorities or any other international or national body has found significant fault with the training of TG pilots

perhaps you could provide some other link to support your "facts"

bkkguy