advice

[paperboy]

I thought i would ask on here, with all the expert advice and experiences all the members have had.
Here goes, ive got a great freind not bf or fuck buddy but great friend i met years ago in patatya.
and im sure many of you have met him as well. He acepted a massgae job in the emerites states.
Anyway after about 2 months, he hates it and wants to come back to his home in Thailand. But the boss will not let him
nor give him back his passport, im willing to pay for the flight ticket its about 300 euros 1 way AUW-BBK
But until he gets his passport cant do anything, his boss wants him to pay 70000 bhts for the visa, he said he payed for him to come to work.
He phoned the embassy to tell them he is traped and living like a slave, but they said they cant help him until he has been there for 6 months.
Any advice please

[bobsaigon2]

Just a few "maybe's": Maybe the Thai Embassy said they couldn't help until he's been there for six months because he signed a contract to work for six months?

And maybe the contract gives his employer the right to hold his passport until the end of the six months or until he reimburses the employer for the 70K Baht visa fee?

Maybe he is "living like a slave". The Gulf States are well known for shabby treatment of guest workers.

Maybe an inquiry to the Emirates government could tell you if there's any relief available at this time or if he must fulfill the terms of his contract.

[BOY69]

It seems like a cunning scam to me , Thai boys tend to make up tragic stories to squeeze money from us . be cautious !

[Gaybutton]

Maybe he should call the Thai embassy again, or go there if he can. Just like Thai banks, talk to one person, you get one answer. Talk to another person, you get a different answer. If he can get to the embassy and get inside, maybe they can provide some sort of protection until he can be sent home.

Also, maybe hiring an attorney there can get him out of this mess.

I hope, for his sake, he's not going to have to spend the next four months finding out the hard way not to accept these kinds of foreign jobs, especially in an area of the world where human rights abuses run rampant. My guess is he was lured by promises of a wonderful job and, by Thai standards, promises of a fabulous salary. I have a feeling Thai thinking doesn't include "If it sounds too good to be true, then it isn't true."

I also hope, for his sake, that at the end of his six months he'll really be able to get out. He'll be lucky to get out at all and I believe it's most likely he'll return home, if he can return home, with no money and nothing more than the clothes he's wearing.

This kind of story is quite common. It stinks, but there's very little anyone can do about it except try to convince people prone to being lured by this shit to see it for what it is and stay put in Thailand.

[paperboy]

thank you Gaybutton and bobsiagon for you help
obviosly Boy69 dint read my post well enough
i said not bf, not fuck buddy but a good friend of mine for a long time
so no scam

[BOY69]

Almost every Thai boy that I have been in contcat with come up at one point or another with a tragic story that involve money to sort it out maybe it's true maybe not I don't know but I really don't think it's our job to sort this problems , we are not ATM !

[Gaybutton]

It seems like a cunning scam to me , Thai boys tend to make up tragic stories to squeeze money from us . be cautious !
Are you joking? Do you truly believe a boy would travel to the Middle East in hopes of making up a story to get paperboy to send him 300 Euros and/or 70,000 baht while having no idea whether paperboy will really help him? This boy's story goes way beyond the typical sick grandmother or "buffalo die" story.

What kind of person are you, anyway? Are you the type who, if a boy you've known for years, trust, and truly care about, and it's a boy who never tried to squeeze money out of you before, after all this time tells you he's in a similar situation, would assume it's a scam and tell him "Sorry, I'm not an ATM"?

[paperboy]

once again Thank you Gaybotton, you took the words out of my mouth

[dab69]

Middle east countries are big on taking your passport and holding you hostage until your work contract has been fulfilled.
This happened to our former manager when he was working in Saudi Arabia.

Surprised he was offered to buy his way out.
Why can't he get a duplicate passport?

[BOY69]

It seems like a cunning scam to me , Thai boys tend to make up tragic stories to squeeze money from us . be cautious !
Are you joking? Do you truly believe a boy would travel to the Middle East in hopes of making up a story to get paperboy to send him 300 Euros and/or 70,000 baht while having no idea whether paperboy will really help him? This boy's story goes way beyond the typical sick grandmother or "buffalo die" story.

What kind of person are you, anyway? Are you the type who, if a boy you've known for years, trust, and truly care about, and it's a boy who never tried to squeeze money out of you before, after all this time tells you he's in a similar situation, would assume it's a scam and tell him "Sorry, I'm not an ATM"?
The boy signed a contract now he wants to go back to Thailand and break the contract that's fine but doesn't he have friends and family that can help ?! I am sure he does but it's more easy to ask it from a falang with no intention to return it back if he borrows from his freinds or family it will be a loan with obligation to pay back why should he choose this option if there is a falang willing to pay for this failed adventure ?

[cdnmatt]

Does he have any ID at all? Birth certificate, Thai national ID card, or anything? Maybe some parents or siblings in Thailand that can be contacted? If so, he should be able to show up at the Bangkok airport, and get through. Might be a bit of a hassle without a passport, but assuming he has valid ID that the immigration officials can confirm he's a Thai citizen, he should be fine.

Otherwise, tell him to go back to the Thai embassy. Assuming he's capable of proving he's a Thai citizen, he'll be able to get a new passport.

Sorry to hear that happened to your friend. That type of scam is rampant throughout the the world, unfortunately.

[BOY69]

To pass the Emiretes immigration he must have a valid passport with
the propper visa assuming this story is true he is in a serious problem if he is
a great freind I would suggest a partial help for example to pay for the ticket and between 10K to 20K BHT for the fine of breaking the contract .

[thaiguest]

I think your friend is in a tight corner. If he's abused or enslaved yet bound by a legal contract then only money and/or legal intervention will free him. There may be advocacy organisations in the region that might take up his case. Often publicity alone can bring about a solution. Keeping his case mentioned at the embassy is important. You may even have to consider going there to negotiate a solution.

[dab69]

Happens so damn often over there I am surprised there is a buyout price.
He is going to be way more unhappy if he is caught socializing with other gays and sent to prison.
He better get used to being unhappy for a while longer and GTFO

[Gaybutton]

why should he choose this option if there is a falang willing to pay for this failed adventure ?
Congratulations. You've just answered my "What kind of person are you" question. My sympathies to any boy who ever ends up with you.

Where does it say the boy ever signed a contract? How do you know the boy didn't try his family first, but they're too poor to be able to help him? But you go right ahead and assume he's trying to scam you or his family could help him, and you keep your 300 Euros. After all, he's just another Thai kid and there are plenty more where he came from, so who cares what happens to him?

[a447]

Apparently, Paperboy is talking about the guy I offer every night during my last trip to Pattaya. He told me then that his mother wanted him to go to work overseas, either in the Middle East, Taiwan or Korea. He told me he would like a job in the construction industry. I warned him about conditions for foreign workers in the Middle East (anyone been to Dubai?) but he was adamant. The pressure seemed to be really strong from his mother.

Boy69, you've got it wrong. We all have had experiences with guys in Thailand which tend to make us cynical, but this guy is definitely not a scammer. I've known him for years - since he was working at Neal's old Bar, Happy Place. If he were the type of guy you were describing, I would have picked it up long ago. And Paperboy would have, too.

I'm shocked to hear he's working in a massage place. Here's hoping it's not a gay establishment.

Surely the Thai embassy can help. Isn't that their job?

Paperboy, please keep us posted about any developments. And thanks for your generous offer to help him get out of that hell-hole. He's the last guy who should find himself in such a dire situation.

[oldfarang]

Paperboy, just sent you a PM, do with the info/advice as you wish. Hope it can help your friend.

[cdnmatt]

It seems like a cunning scam to me , Thai boys tend to make up tragic stories to squeeze money from us . be cautious !

You've never heard of this happening before? It's rampant throughout the world, even here in Thailand. How well do you think the Burmese construction workers get treated? Or the fishermen? When your employer confiscates your passport, you know you're in for a rough time.

Again, embassy should be able to help. He'll be registered on a house somewhere in Thailand, plus assuming he's 20+, he'll also have a military record here. Regardless if he actively served or got lucky and pulled the black ball, the military will have a record of him. That combined with parents / siblings that can be contacted, should be enough to confirm his citizenship and get him a new passport so he can leave the country.

[anonone]

Does he have any ID at all? Birth certificate, Thai national ID card, or anything? Maybe some parents or siblings in Thailand that can be contacted? If so, he should be able to show up at the Bangkok airport, and get through. Might be a bit of a hassle without a passport, but assuming he has valid ID that the immigration officials can confirm he's a Thai citizen, he should be fine.

Otherwise, tell him to go back to the Thai embassy. Assuming he's capable of proving he's a Thai citizen, he'll be able to get a new passport.

Sorry to hear that happened to your friend. That type of scam is rampant throughout the the world, unfortunately.

Going to the embassy is the best option.

If he shows up at any airport to board international flight without a passport, no way are they going to let him on the plane. He will never get to BKK airport in that instance.

[BOY69]

It seems like a cunning scam to me , Thai boys tend to make up tragic stories to squeeze money from us . be cautious !

You've never heard of this happening before? It's rampant throughout the world, even here in Thailand. How well do you think the Burmese construction workers get treated? Or the fishermen? When your employer confiscates your passport, you know you're in for a rough time.

Again, embassy should be able to help. He'll be registered on a house somewhere in Thailand, plus assuming he's 20+, he'll also have a military record here. Regardless if he actively served or got lucky and pulled the black ball, the military will have a record of him. That combined with parents / siblings that can be contacted, should be enough to confirm his citizenship and get him a new passport so he can leave the country.

Even if he get a new passport the Visa he got to get in is in the old passport this may cause a problem to pass the immigration so he needs a formal explanation as well from the Thai embassy explaining the situation otherwise he will not be able to leave the country .

I thought i would ask on here, with all the expert advice and experiences all the members have had.
Here goes, ive got a great freind not bf or fuck buddy but great friend i met years ago in patatya.
and im sure many of you have met him as well. He acepted a massgae job in the emerites states.
Anyway after about 2 months, he hates it and wants to come back to his home in Thailand. But the boss will not let him
nor give him back his passport, im willing to pay for the flight ticket its about 300 euros 1 way AUW-BBK
But until he gets his passport cant do anything, his boss wants him to pay 70000 bhts for the visa, he said he payed for him to come to work.
He phoned the embassy to tell them he is traped and living like a slave, but they said they cant help him until he has been there for 6 months.
Any advice please
Common practice in the Gulf States, sadly

[Gaybutton]

Even if he get a new passport the Visa he got to get in is in the old passport this may cause a problem to pass the immigration
Why would that cause a problem? Don't people sometimes lose their passports? Don't passports sometimes get stolen? The visa he arrived with would still be in the lost or stolen passport, wouldn't it? There would be a record of his visa, wouldn't there? I've never heard of anyone under those circumstances having any trouble returning home. It seems clear to me that if whoever is holding him against his will and is refusing to give his passport back to him, that's a stolen passport.

I have a feeling whoever he spoke to at the Thai embassy was someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. Having to wait 6 months to get any help in his situation? That's absurd. He was duped. He's a victim. I would find it hard to believe the embassy would refuse to help him and just throw him to the wolves. He needs to speak to someone else at the embassy, or better still go to the embassy for help. Once he's inside the embassy, now he's technically on Thai soil. Hopefully the embassy will help him return to Thailand.

If nothing else, the embassy at the very least should be able to help him get a competent attorney, listed with the embassy, if it comes to that.

[BOY69]

Unfortonately it's a common practice to take advantage on foreigners at the golf states the local embassies are well aware about that but do nothing because they try to avoid diplomatic conflicts with the local golf goverments and prefer to ignore their citizens problems . I would not count too much on help from the Thai embassy in this case .

[BOY69]

I would suggest to go to the embassy to declare that he lost his passport get a new one and get the hell out from there immediately !

[danny99]

wants to come back to his home in Thailand. But the boss will not let him
nor give him back his passport, Any advice please

This is a normal practice in the Middle East, to hold passport as security to ensure they complete agreed contract after paying to recruit them. There are a thousand Balinese over there in the same predicament...all suffer the same problem were greedy for the money which sounded a lot at the time, and did not bother to check living conditions [no booze, parties in most Middles eastern countries, etc]...same as with cruise ships, many want to come home after a few weeks at sea but no option so, strangely as with the Middle East, if they buckle down they get used to it and many of them eventually re-sign for another stint or voyage as coming home with a pocketful of money [unless they are stupid as well] gives them a pleasing notoriety at home in the village with family and friends.

It is called signing a contract, and honouring it!

[latintopxxx]

"It is called signing a contract, and honouring it!"

Sooo funny...good luck with that

[Gaybutton]

It is called signing a contract, and honouring it!
Maybe it's a common practice in the Middle east, but I know of no international law that permits an employer to confiscate someone's passport. Legally, a passport is the property of the issuing government in the first place.

Again, where is anything that says this boy signed a contract?

Contract or not, virtual enslavement may be something Middle Easterners can easily get away with, but I know of nothing that makes it legal. Even if the boy signed a contract, he still should be able to return home if he chooses. If the employer doesn't like it, it is called "lawsuit for breach of contract."

[Tobi]

@paperboy I had a similar situation with a Filipino girl who worked briefly for me and then took a job in Abu Dhabi. If your friend agreed to a six month stint, then I strongly advise him to stay for the entire six months. If his employer then won't return his passport and agree to let him go, he should go in person to the nearest Thai embassy if he can, and ask them to write to his employer asking for an explanation about why they won't release him.

I wouldn't recommend him getting a replacement passport and then just trying to leave the country. If he is stopped, he's likely to end up in gaol, a situation that will be far worse and extremely difficult for anyone including the Thai embassy to extricate him from. I'd ignore the clamouring here for him to assert his rights, insist the Thai embassy helps, hire an attorney, etc. etc. It's likely to make a bad situation very, very much worse. I'm genuinely surprised at such advice, especially as I imagine most here are aware of the horror stories of westerners getting involved with Thai justice, it's legal system, corruption, gaols etc. and how useless their own embassies are at helping them out when they're in trouble. It's far, far worse in the Middle East.

I would suggest to go to the embassy to declare that he lost his passport get a new one and get the hell out from there immediately !I'm sure the Thai Embassy have never encountered that tactic before. Most countries require the applicant to furnish a police report from the local police to go along with the fresh application; I doubt Thailand's embassies in the Gulf States are any different

[Gaybutton]

It's likely to make a bad situation very, very much worse.
Unless you can explain why at least going to his embassy, talking with them, and finding out what they have to say about it would be a mistake, I, for one, disagree with you.

Maybe there's nothing he can do, but I fail to see anything wrong with finding out. Imagine how he'd feel if he just sticks it out, eventually returns home, and then discovers there really was something he could have done all along.

[firecat69]

once again Thank you Gaybotton, you took the words out of my mouth
+1

[Smiles]

I'm genuinely surprised at such advice, especially as I imagine most here are aware of the horror stories of westerners getting involved with Thai justice, it's legal system, corruption, gaols etc. and how useless their own embassies are at helping them out when they're in trouble. It's far, far worse in the Middle East.
Well put Tobi. The most common sense I've read in this thread ... so far.



once again Thank you Gaybotton, you took the words out of my mouth
+1

What is this " +1 " thing all about? Something like figure skating judging?
Is that good? Bad? Mediocre? What would constitute an " +8.5 " for instance?
Miss-spelling gaybutton's handle really should bring it down at least to +0.50. Could be worse ... paperboy might have gone full bore and mistakenly written 'gaybottom', thus bringing down god's great wrath.

[dinagam]

+1

[cdnmatt]

What is this " +1 " thing all about? Something like figure skating judging?

-2

j/k :)

[BOY69]

I'm genuinely surprised at such advice, especially as I imagine most here are aware of the horror stories of westerners getting involved with Thai justice, it's legal system, corruption, gaols etc. and how useless their own embassies are at helping them out when they're in trouble. It's far, far worse in the Middle East.
Well put Tobi. The most common sense I've read in this thread ... so far.



once again Thank you Gaybotton, you took the words out of my mouth
+1

What is this " +1 " thing all about? Something like figure skating judging?
Is that good? Bad? Mediocre? What would constitute an " +8.5 " for instance?
Miss-spelling gaybutton's handle really should bring it down at least to +0.50. Could be worse ... paperboy might have gone full bore and mistakenly written 'gaybottom', thus bringing down god's great wrath.

+ *****

[BOY69]

The problem is even if paperboy will send the 70000 BHT to the boy for releasing the passport his employee might take advantage of this situation and demands more money from the poor boy !!!
There is no gaurantee that sending the money will solve this problem.

[loke]

I think the boy should just try to be patient and survive , 6 months is not a lifetime. Unless he is being held as a sex slave, you never know with the Arabs.
Then I am sure some of his friends will pay for his flight ticket back.

[Gaybutton]

I think the boy should just try to be patient and survive
If you were in his shoes, would you?

[cdnmatt]

I think the boy should just try to be patient and survive , 6 months is not a lifetime.

Again, you've never heard of this type of thing happening either? I'd be surprised if he gets voluntarily released after 6 months. Generally, if they confiscate your passport, they tell you you're indebted to them for about 30 times the cost of getting you there, and that you have to work it off. More than likely, as long as he continues to do his job and brings in the money, the boss isn't going to let him go easily.

So yeah, there's a pretty decent chance he's looking at more than 6 months. If I was him, I would do whatever was at my disposal to get out of there, and get back home to Thailand and get a proper job. If they confiscated his passport, that's not a normal job. That's modern day slavery.

[Tobi]

It's likely to make a bad situation very, very much worse.
Unless you can explain why at least going to his embassy, talking with them, and finding out what they have to say about it would be a mistake, I, for one, disagree with you.

Maybe there's nothing he can do, but I fail to see anything wrong with finding out. Imagine how he'd feel if he just sticks it out, eventually returns home, and then discovers there really was something he could have done all along.

If you read the original post, the Thai embassy has already told him to come back after the six months are up. I know from my own experience, they won't even consider getting involved in what is basically an "indentured servant" scenario in the UAE until he's fulfilled his part of the bargain.

The worst thing that can happen is if he goes missing and after a few hours his "employer" reports him to the police. I know that in Dubai for example, that immediately gets logged on a computer which will be checked at the airport. He's then liable to be arrested at check-in. He'll then be dependent on his employer to get him out as it's likely to prove practically impossible for anyone else to help, unless they have serious clout or large amounts of disposable cash.

You'll find most forms of unpaid debt in the UAE actually constitute a criminal offence. You should have seen the mass exodus of westerners racing to Dubai airport to catch any available flight out, abandoning their expensive cars with the keys in the ignition at the airport carpark, during the last downturn when many lost their jobs.

This poor guy runs the risk of physical harm by even complaining, the treatment of Filipinos and Indians in the UAE is truly appalling, worse than the Burmese suffer in Thailand, which I gather is far from good.

However, if you know better, then sure keep disagreeing. I won't mind, I'm actually concerned about him, not you.

[Tobi]

So yeah, there's a pretty decent chance he's looking at more than 6 months. If I was him, I would do whatever was at my disposal to get out of there, and get back home to Thailand and get a proper job. If they confiscated his passport, that's not a normal job. That's modern day slavery.

It is modern day slavery, but sharia law permits it, and the confiscation of passports is pretty standard with these kind of jobs. This guy will be viewed as defaulting on a debt which is a gaolable offence if tries to do a runner and gets caught.

The best thing he can do is ask his employer to release him once the six months are up, if that's what he believes he agreed to. If the employer refuses, then he should try to get to the embassy and ask them to write to the employer asking for the terms of his employment and the date of his release and ask for a copy for himself. It's likely if the employer receives such an official request that he or she will either release him or at least specify what the conditions are.

If the employer doesn't respond or won't honour his release, his only option is to then take his copy of the letter and any response to the police. However, that isn't entirely risk free but an official letter from the embassy in arabic is likely to give them pause for thought. Hopefully they won't just sling him in a cell, give him a beating and then deliver him back to his employer, earning themselves a few dirhams for their trouble.

It's incredibly sad that so many are lured by promises of rich rewards in the UAE only to discover it's slave labour for which they get paid a pittance. It's happened to hundreds of thousands of Indians, but despite extensive news coverage in India and around the world, many are still falling for this very sick fairytale. http://d.pr/15JaA

[latintopxxx]

so far all we have is a whole lot of assumptions. Assumptions that he's being sexually abused/ used as a sex slave..whatever. Maybe all the new owner..ooops boss wants is for him to actually perform massages 8 hours a day...in other words do a full days work...and not sit on his arse outside the establishment fiddling with his iphone ignoring potential customer. And when he does get off his arse to massage a custiomer..actually carry out a proper massage and not just a 30 min slap and tickle.
Now assuming that he is required to perform sexual acts....how different is that from when he was back home?? Or maybe its the renumeration he's unhappy about...is the new boss taking most of it??
See...all we have is suppositions ...assumptions...maybes....
He probably thought he would land in UAE...be metv by a limousine and get whisked off to a 7 star hotel ...all because he's gay and young and pretty....and Thai.

[Gaybutton]

However, if you know better, then sure keep disagreeing. I won't mind, I'm actually concerned about him, not you.
Despite your snide remark, I'm still waiting for you to explain why talking to the embassy would be a mistake. I know what one person at the embassy told him. Maybe that's right and maybe it isn't. I don't know better. I don't know at all. I don't know why anyone at the embassy would tell him they can't help him until he's been there six months. I don't know what, if anything, the embassy can do or would do after six months, immediately, or any other time. That's why I'm asking. If you do know, what you know and how you know it?

[Smiles]

+ *****

-2 j/k :)

+1

Thanks for all the help gentlemen, but I'm still not getting it. Can you blame me.
It's some kind of code, right. Feels nefarious.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

RE ... the main topic. Tobi's comments still makes more far sense to me than all the rest you put together.

[cdnmatt]

Smiles, it basically just means "I agree, and couldn't have said it better".

[Smiles]

RE ... the main topic. Tobi's comments still makes more far sense to me than all the rest you put together.
Well, on re-reading, that was a ghastly mishmash of a sentence, or, as El Cid said to his generals, ' ... too many Moors gentlemen, too many Moors ...'
Unfortunately, once again, the edit time limit rises it's ugly head.
Of course, it was meant to be; ' ...Tobi's comments still make far more sense to me than all the rest of you put together ... '

I know it sounds quite anal to correct it in this manner, but I just can't help it. Such gobbledygook should never stand.

[Tobi]

If you do know, what you know and how you know it?

I'm assuming you've read what I've written? I'm honestly not sure how I can make it any clearer. Your comments remind me of the worst kind of tourists, the ones who think the embassy always has a get-out-of-gaol-free card. Do you honestly believe the Thai embassy in another country gets involved in employment disputes? That if your job goes wrong in Thailand your embassy will rush to your rescue and arbitrate? Why do you think it's got to be different in the UAE? It's perfectly acceptable and legal for Emirates to treat their employees in this manner, working them to the bone, housing them like cattle, confiscating passports until the "debt" is paid off, etc. It's very, very wrong from a western viewpoint but saying that isn't going to help this guy, is it?!

+ *****

-2 j/k :)

+1

Thanks for all the help gentlemen, but I'm still not getting it. Can you blame me.
It's some kind of code, right. Feels nefarious.
It's a feature that has been asked for by a number of posters in the past, and something approximating it is already available as an extension (https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=456&t=2246576) in phpBB 3.1

I did hear it might be available as a core feature in phpBB 3.2

However as you know we won't be getting such a feature here, no matter how many people ask for it, as Surfcrest's published attitude is "If I wouldn't use it, neither shall anyone else"

[Gaybutton]

I'm assuming you've read what I've written?
I've asked you twice and you still haven't addressed my questions. Since all you want to do is come up with more snide remarks and insult attempts, I really couldn't care less about what you've written, or will continue to write. It doesn't matter what I believe. I've already said I don't know whether the embassy can, or would, help him or not, and I don't know how to make that any more clear. And there's only one way for him to find out. If paperboy wants to suggest to him that he try the embassy or wants to reject that idea, that's his choice.

I don't know whether the embassy can, or would, help him or not. And there's only one way for him to find out.He has. They won't.

[Tobi]

I'm assuming you've read what I've written?
I've asked you twice and you still haven't addressed my questions. Since all you want to do is come up with more snide remarks and insult attempts, I really couldn't care less about what you've written, or will continue to write. It doesn't matter what I believe. I've already said I don't know whether the embassy can, or would, help him or not, and I don't know how to make that any more clear. And there's only one way for him to find out. If paperboy wants to suggest to him that he try the embassy or wants to reject that idea, that's his choice.

OK, and after he discovers for the second time that the embassy doesn't have a stock of ruby slippers available on demand as you seem to believe must be the case, what's your advice to him then, pray tell? Go back and try again?!!

[Gaybutton]

Go back and try again?!!
Now exclamation points too. I'm so impressed. Ok, since you're the expert - according to the OP, the embassy, whoever he spoke to, says they can't help him until he's been there six months. Suppose you enlighten us as to what the embassy can do after six months and explain why, whatever it is, it's something they can't, or won't, do right now. I guess he'll just have to wait four more months until the embassy provides those ruby slippers.

Go ahead and write another charming response. I'm done with this topic and definitely done with you.

[Tobi]

Suppose you enlighten us...

I think you're just trolling, either that, or you're amazingly naive. I truly wouldn't put any faith in my own embassy, let alone a Thai one.

If you look back, I've answered your questions in previous posts, however, to reiterate, the embassy won't even acknowledge there's an issue until the poor guy's fulfilled the agreement under which he arrived in the UAE.

I'm not sure even then how easy it will to convince them to help once his six months are up nor how much it might "cost" to get them onboard and write a letter on his behalf. In my case it took two calls to the British embassies in Dubai and Abu Dhabi to learn what the very limited options were, and another to a contact at the Filipino embassy (whose name was given to me by the British embassy) pleading with them to write to the employer of the person I was trying to help and who was suffering under similar circumstances.

The letter seems to have been enough to convince the employer to return the passport. The girl in question didn't get paid, nor did she have a ticket out of Abu Dhabi. I also discovered that neither the Filipino nor the Indian embassies will repatriate their citizens from the UAE. I'd hazard a guess that may be true for Thai embassies as well. It proved necessary for her family to finance a costly one-way ticket back to Manila because it obviously couldn't be booked in advance.

It's entirely up to @paperboy whether he finds my advice in any way helpful, and he's obviously under no obligation to take it nor pass it on. However, at least I've given him the benefit of my experience, instead of running around the board shrieking "The Embassy, Esmeralda! The Embassy!!" as though an embassy is a guaranteed place of succour and sanctuary. I promise you, it isn't.

[BOY69]

Unfortunately I have to agree with Tobi ,The Thai embassy will not get involved with a case that might cause a diplomatic conflict with the local UAE authorities and I suspect that the person who advised
the boy to come back when the 6 month contract will end just wanted to get rid of him and most likely that they will do nothing once the boy
finished his contract with his employee but I agree with Gaybutton that the boy must go again ,again and again to the embassy and not give up till he find the right person there to help him in this unfortunte case ,and the sooner the better .

[scottish-guy]

... as though an embassy is a guaranteed place of succour and sanctuary. I promise you, it isn't.


Unless you're Julian Assange of course - he's been holed up in the Ecuadorian one for over 3yrs now irrespecive of whatever "diplomatic conflicts" have been caused.

Just saying like.

:ymparty:

[christianpfc]

For the special relationship between Thailand and Saudi Arabia read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Ara ... _relations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia%E2%80%93Thailand_relations)

I wish your friend a quick return and hope he will tell all his friends how it went! Amazing that people still fall for these scams, in times of internet.

[Tobi]

....he's been holed up in the Ecuadorian one for over 3yrs now....

That's brilliant, @scottish-guy, all @paperboy's friend has to do is bolt to the Ecuardorian embassy. I never thought of that. Kudos!

Of course, there's still the problem of then getting him out of the UAE. He is Thai though, so maybe he'll fit in a diplomat's pouch?!

[Tobi]

Amazing that people still fall for these scams, in times of internet.

It doesn't surprise me @christianpfc, given that every day the media reports that huge numbers of westerners fall for even obvious scams. I saw for myself in Kerala, India, suited-and-booted recruiters setting up flash shops offering employment in Dubai. For someone earning $1-a-day in a canning factory, I imagine $5-a-day sounds like a fortune. Of course, they probably don't find out until they've arrived at a desert workcamp that not only do they have to pay back the visa and airfare costs, they also have to pay for rent, transport to work, food, etc. etc. I gather from news articles, many still manage to send back 2-3 times as much as they would if they'd stayed at home, but at such a personal cost it beggars belief, and of course, getting back can prove extremely difficult, even after they've fulfilled the terms of their so-called "contracts".

[Tobi]

...the boy must go again ,again and again to the embassy...

I'm guessing from the original post that it's unlikely to be practical for him to visit the embassy which is why he telephoned. It may not be close to where he's employed or even in the same city, he probably doesn't get that much time off anyway and the embassy will no doubt insist that he needs to make an appointment. The first thing both the British and Filipino embassies asked me was: "Do you know if they've completed their agreed term of employment?". I gather that unless that was the case, they wouldn't even consider getting involved. I imagine it would be the same for me if I got a job in Thailand, if I didn't like it, the British embassy is hardly likely to be interested in my predicament. They'd probably send me on my way with a list of dodgy local lawyers, something that @paperboy's friend is unlikely to be able to afford, and with the UAE following sharia law, potentially very risky anyway.

[Tobi]

For the special relationship between Thailand and Saudi Arabia... http://d.pr/BNnR

[a447]

http://www.vice.com/video/the-slaves-of-dubai

[Tobi]

http://www.vice.com/video/the-slaves-of-dubai

Thanks for posting that @a447, appreciate it. I saw the original Panorama programme it's based on about five years ago but the only link to it now appears to be defunct. It speaks volumes that nothing's changed since it was broadcast and still no-one is interested in addressing the issue. Tragic.

[bruce_nyc]

I was just in Dubai for 3 days. I'd never go again. What a horrible place. The concept of human rights is as foreign to them as space travel would be to cave men.

By the way, the penalty for being gay is.... the death penalty. However, in some cases first time offenders might get off lightly with only chemical castration. They are barbarians.

... no-one is interested in addressing the issue.Which "no-ones" do you believe can "address the issue" effectively, and what is it they can do?

[Tobi]

Which "no-ones" do you believe can "address the issue" effectively, and what is it they can do?

I think any action would need to be taken by the governments of the countries whose people are affected, which means it's unlikely to change, given that remittances from abroad can make up as much as 10% of GDP in the case of the Philippines.

It'd obviously be better to ask those who are or have been affected what the solution is. I'd guess that agreements where no debt is incurred by taking up employment, a return air ticket is given and stiff penalties for withholding passports might be a way forward.

Which "no-ones" do you believe can "address the issue" effectively, and what is it they can do?
I think any action would need to be taken by the governments of the countries whose people are affected, which means it's unlikely to change, given that remittances from abroad can make up as much as 10% of GDP in the case of the Philippines.
Exactly. You could have your own personal protest of course, which you could encourage others to join - refuse to fly Emirates, Etihad or Qatar Airways. There are a number of posters here who seem to believe that their choice of airline should be independent of their concern for the poor and downtrodden. I even felt slightly grubby when I flew Turkish Airlines recently from Athens to Bangkok

[Tobi]

You could have your own personal protest of course, which you could encourage others to join...

If documentaries and international media reporting on the situation hasn't had any effect, I have doubts that any individual's campaign would change the basic situation, even if it went viral. It occasionally works for a specific person, like the 74-year-old British grandfather sentenced to be lashed in Saudi for making home-made wine, but even he had already spent a year in prison before he was finally released. http://d.pr/16lfz

It'd take something like the governments of Thailand, India, China, the Philippines, etc. to gang up and ban their citizens from taking up employment in the UAE until the situation is addressed, but how likely is that to happen? I won't be holding my breath.

You could have your own personal protest of course, which you could encourage others to join...

If documentaries and international media reporting on the situation hasn't had any effect, I have doubts that any individual's campaign would change the basic situation, even if it went viral. It occasionally works for a specific person, like the 74-year-old British grandfather sentenced to be lashed in Saudi for making home-made wine, but even he had already spent a year in prison before he was finally released. http://d.pr/16lfz

It'd take something like the governments of Thailand, India, China, the Philippines, etc. to gang up and ban their citizens from taking up employment in the UAE until the situation is addressed, but how likely is that to happen? I won't be holding my breath.
To be clear, I don't believe such personal protests "work" in the sense that they will change a government's behaviour and I note that bruce_nyc for example must have travelled on one of those airlines to Bangkok. Personally I won't; they enslave people, and as Bruce says execute PLU. I would never give them my money but I certainly don't believe my protest will have any impact by itself

[bruce_nyc]

My logic is this: If I am paying less than the cost of operating the flight... ( because the low cost tickets are being subsidized by the government ).... then I am not actually giving them any money. I am taking money from them.

Very often, Qatar airlines, or Emirates, or Ethiad airways are the very cheapest tickets available of any airline. ( see http://kayak.com ) This means that they really are selling the tickets below their cost.... as a big, government subsidized, marketing ploy... to try to give their country positive PR.

I turn the tables on them. I tell people how excellent their airlines are, and how cheap their prices are.... ( all true ).... But at the same time, I am very outspoken about telling people, "Never visit those countries! Never give them one cent of your tourist money!" I would never go to Qatar, UAE, or any of those countries. ( Even if I were to take a cruise that originates in Dubai, for example, I would schedule the timing of things so that I could arrive by flight to Dubai.... and taxi directly to the cruise port.... without spending even one night in that city. )

Personal campaigns like this *do* effect change. And the best way to implement them is..... what you are doing right here.... TALK ABOUT IT.... Tell everyone about it.... in person at parties.... but even more so on the internet, forums like here, social media, reddit, everywhere. Never miss an opportunity to post about it.

One of the threads on this forum at the moment says that it has had "44361 views". The power of having that many people read your ideas ( assuming it's a great idea ).... should NOT be underestimated. It only takes *one* person who happens to be in some sort of a position of power ( or know someone who is ).... to spread the gospel of your excellent idea.

The second most powerful force in the universe is... ideas.

:-?

[Tobi]

44361 views are the original poster clicking 44361 times on their own post. ;)

It won't be easy to convince the masses to avoid giving their hard earned dosh to repressive regimes. I doubt many people are even aware that tourist traps like Harrods and Claridges in London are owned by the Qatar Investment Authority for example.

[bruce_nyc]

I doubt many people are even aware that tourist traps like Harrods and Claridges in London are owned by the Qatar Investment Authority for example.

Ahhhh but it *is* easy.

YOU just now educated ME. I didn't know that. But now I do. And I will be spreading the word...

( as do all the readers of this thread ... and 3143 views with 70+ replies is not an insignificant audience ! )

It's my perception that these days people are more concerned than ever before about how their seemingly small choices they make on a daily basis.... are affecting the world. Many people, armed with that knowledge, will make different choices. For example, now that I know this, I will avoid Harrod's and Claridges from now on. ( There are even Harrod's locations in Bangkok, which I will also avoid. ) And I won't be shy about telling my friends *WHY* I won't meet them there.

[Smiles]

The second most powerful force in the universe is ... ideas.
No, it's not, that's just sentimental hooey. The second most powerful force in the universe is the electromagnetic force. :D

[bruce_nyc]

What has the electromagnetic force done for me lately...?

[Tobi]

Ahhhh but it *is* easy.

I try to avoid, albeit I don't really research. I knew that the Brunei Investment Agency owns the Dorchester Group, only because of the outcry over the Beverley Hills Hotel hosting an LBGT event, and I recently became aware that a huge chunk of the Fairmont and Four Seasons are owned by Saudi's Kingdom Group. It's also easy to contribute to the coffers without realising it, given that many businesses don't have obvious ties but are leasing premises from property companies owned by such entities. I only wish boycotting these places or the publicity actually impacted the owners but sadly it doesn't.

[bruce_nyc]

Every little bit of "publicity" helps...... even if it's only a comment on SGT..... or facebook or wherever....

[Tobi]

I wish it did, but I don't think it has any impact on companies like Saudi's Kingdom Holdings who own huge chunks of Disney, 21st Century Fox, News Corp, Apple, GM, Twitter, etc. as well as the aforementioned hotels simply because Prince Alwaleed has access to hundreds of billions pouring in every year from oil and gas, ditto the Sultan of Brunei, the Qatari royal family et al.

[Tobi]

The alternative twelve inches. http://d.pr/1asGU

[thaiguest]

You could have your own personal protest of course, which you could encourage others to join...

If documentaries and international media reporting on the situation hasn't had any effect, I have doubts that any individual's campaign would change the basic situation, even if it went viral. It occasionally works for a specific person, like the 74-year-old British grandfather sentenced to be lashed in Saudi for making home-made wine, but even he had already spent a year in prison before he was finally released. http://d.pr/16lfz

It'd take something like the governments of Thailand, India, China, the Philippines, etc. to gang up and ban their citizens from taking up employment in the UAE until the situation is addressed, but how likely is that to happen? I won't be holding my breath.
The British grand father was interviewed on British TV following his arrival home. He spent most of his interview time telling us how good Saudi Arabai was to him. Benign slavery and Norwegian syndrome I think.

[bruce_nyc]

Thailand, Myanmar, etc aren't going to be "ganging up" on anyone. They have their own slavery to manage....

EU demands Thailand address slavery in its seafood industry
http://www.apnewsarchive.com/2015/EU-wa ... fd8f2140ca (http://www.apnewsarchive.com/2015/EU-warns-Thailand-to-address-slavery-rights-issues-in-fish-industry-highlighted-in-AP-probe/id-98bff6da2e6d4906bfbf41fd8f2140ca)

[latintopxxx]

I only overnighted one night there between flights and found the foreign hotel staff (filipinos and indians) very very accommodating. Guess there are different conditions for hotel staff and construction workers.Only negative is grindr didnt work there.

[dab69]

I .Only negative is grindr didnt work there.


Perhaps for your own protection,
so it couldn't be used against you.

[bruce_nyc]

Yes. They are trying to promote tourism desperately. So hotel staff are trained to take very good care of guests. Obviously, they are not Emirati. They are all Filipino and Indian.

But don't let anyone find out you're gay. The law is the death penalty for being gay... although if they decide to be lenient, they sometimes just do chemical castration and life in prison. Oh, and be prepared to get raped. Often. Reports from normal tourists arrested under false pretenses tell stories of the police taking them out to the desert and raping all of them ( young British straight guys in their 20s ).... before taking them in. And then much more of the same while in jail there.

Gay couples on the cruise we went on recently were advised to "act like friends only" and definitely get a room with two twin beds.

And yes, I was told by local users of Grindr, Hornet, etc., who are using it via a VPN ( censorship bypassing tool ), that the police there often use Grindr etc and pretend to be a gay guy and try to lure unsuspecting gay guys into meeting them.... then arrest them.

Best solution: Never visit such countries.

( ...and why spend your tourist dollars in a barbaric country that's out to kill you anyway. )

The state of Dubai ran out of oil years ago. So that king is desperate to try to create a tourism industry in Dubai. He wants it to be another Miami. But it never will be. He has built the world's tallest tower and the world's largest shopping mall. But at the end of the day, ( and you can see both in one afternoon), it's still a dusty dirty scorching blazing hot desert with a perpetual "smog" that never goes away ( from the desert sand in the air ), and the *average* temperature is 40 degrees (c) like the flames of Hell.

Nobody who's been there wants to go again. ( unless they're getting paid to )

I was just in Dubai for 3 days.

Best solution: Never visit such countries.

Nobody who's been there wants to go again. ( unless they're getting paid to )
Come along Brucie - you've told us that you doubled your net worth AGAIN in the past three months, so why did you go there? You need the money?

[dinagam]

thaiguest,

could it be the Stockholm syndrome?

[bruce_nyc]

Come along Brucie.... so why did you go there? You need the money?

That was a little logic test for you.... ;)

First, it was our first time there. I only made my conclusions about the place *after* having been there... ( unlike many other people seem to do ).

Second, as I said, I would never go again.*

Third, the only reason we went is because we bought tickets for a cruise which unfortunately *began* in Dubai.


* If I really really wanted to go on a cruise that happened to begin in Dubai, knowing what I now know.... I would book the flight very carefully to give myself plenty of time to get directly from the airport to the cruise terminal.... spending *zero* nights in a hotel there.... and spending as close to zero money there as well. I don't believe in supporting such economies which don't respect human rights. ( Especially MY human rights! )