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lonelywombat
June 28th, 2006, 07:07
In todays Melbourne Age is an article that might not be allowed in LOS.
It speaks frankly about the alternatives and what is often discussed but not in print

ASIA ONLINE
Royal rumblings: the Thai king's water-tight business dealings and genuine popularity make him a hard man to replace.
Thai riches hinged on wise king's prodigal son


A LOT of rubbish is written about Asia, much of it excessively romantic. But one cliche that does hold is that the Thai people love their king.

The reverence and respect that King Bhumibol (pronounced poomy-pon) is accorded by almost all Thais is genuine and heartfelt. It is not the product of a state-controlled media or legal sanctions. The king has just celebrated the 60th year of his reign, which begs the question, what next?

Under King Bhumibol's stewardship, the office of king has become the one Thai public institution not tainted by corruption, greed and ego. At a personal level, the king is highly intellectual, speaks at least seven languages, and is deeply interested in the sciences, particularly agricultural sciences.

From a business point of view, the king matters for two reasons. His office is a steadying influence when Thai politics are so fractious and corrupt. He is a bastion of common sense, when Thailand's politicians routinely lose theirs, stepping in when needed and yet somehow managing to remain above politics.

In 1981, he stopped a coup in its tracks simply by flying to a northern city where the prime minister, who was about to be deposed, was holed up. The coup plotters immediately lost their nerve.

King Bhumibol performed a similar role in 1992 when faced with another political crisis. He suggested his displeasure at how the national elections earlier in the year were conducted, and so the Thai courts immediately invalidated them. And he refused to approve the replacement for Thailand's capable auditor-general when she was fired after exposing government rorting, which led to her reinstatement.

The king also matters to business because of his private investment vehicle, the Crown Property Bureau (CPB). It controls Thailand's biggest and best-regarded conglomerate, the publicly listed Siam Cement, and a collection of other companies.

The CPB is professionally managed. It sets an example for the rest of Thailand's business community. During the 1997 economic crisis, Siam Cement was brought to its knees with more than $6.15 billion in overseas loans, but it didn't run from creditors like many Thai companies. Instead, meetings were scheduled, its books opened and its debts worked out.

Many Thai companies see it as a great honour to have a business association with the CPB or its subsidiaries. Similarly, foreign investors are well advised to make it one of their first ports of call in Bangkok when looking for a local partner. It is also a massive holder of commercial land in Bangkok and elsewhere, which again makes it a strategic local partner.

The Thai royal family, with 131 branches, is one of the most complex in the world, largely because the first five kings of the current Chakri Dynasty had 325 children by their many wives.

Today, a chairman of a family association keeps track of all members and claimants.

Tthere are literally thousands of royals and near-royals. They turn up in business, in government and on boards.

It is helpful to be able to identify them. Usually, this can be done from their name.

Children of the king and any past kings carry the title Chao Fah. Any child of a Chao Fah is a Phra-ong Chao. In turn, their children carry the title Mom Chao. These three ranks comprise royalty. Subsequent ranks are commoners with royal ancestry. A child of a Mom Chao is a Mom Rajawonse. His or her child is a Mom Luang. And a Mom Luang's child has no title, but has the right to add na Ayudhya after their surname, thereby denoting their distant connection to royalty.

But returning to the king: who is to succeed him? He is almost 80 after all. Formally, Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn, a graduate of the Royal Military College in Duntroon, Canberra, is next in line. But he is not popular. His personality is cold and his personal life lurid.

He had a daughter with his first wife, whom he later divorced. He then had five children with a new consort, whom he never married. The relationship ended and the children now live in the US. Prince Vajiralongkorn recently stripped them of their royal titles. There are more children by other women, but none are officially acknowledged. Rumours about this and other matters abound.

Prince Vajiralongkorn married again in 2001, to a woman who had been on his staff. The marriage was made public only recently. They had a son, Dipangkorn, in April last year.

It is this child who is now second in line to the throne.

Thais used to the utter propriety of their king look on Prince Vajiralongkorn with dismay. Ask them about their views on him as king and they are likely to reply tactfully by wishing the current king a long life.

So if Prince Vajiralongkorn were not to become king, who else is there? He has three sisters. A 1974 constitutional amendment allowed a woman to ascend the throne. Two of his sisters married commoners, which removed them from the line of succession, although both are now divorced. (One lost her only son in the 2004 tsunami: Prince Vajiralongkorn identified the body.)

That leaves the king's second eldest daughter Sirindhorn. The athletic princess, who hasn't married, and by all accounts isn't likely to, holds a rank that's equivalent to Prince Vajiralongkorn's. She is hugely popular, and works as hard as her father at improving the welfare of ordinary Thais. The media routinely push her cause. She is regal but not aloof, stays above politics, and commands enormous respect from across all of Thailand.

But would the conservative Buddhist monkhood and military find a woman on the throne acceptable? Thailand could do worse.

The succession in Thailand is not a done deal.

www.michaelbackman.com (http://www.michaelbackman.com)

June 28th, 2006, 07:39
There is speculation among some close to the palace, if not within the palace itself, that any successor other than [(Virajalongkorn) -E.S.] (as he is sometimes known) would lead to civil war. However the fact that the [(Virajalongkorn) -E.S.] latest (and only legitimate) son went through certain royal ceremonies recently, sponsored and attended by the King and Queen (a fact not mentioned by Michael Backman) suggests that the succession in Thailand may be a done deal after all. The big question is - does [(Virajalongkorn)] appearance (see any photograph from the last 2 or 3 years) mean that he's HIV+ and if not, what's the explanation? If so, what is the status and fate of his wife and child?

My favourite newspaper headline quoting Virajalongkorn comes from the Bangkok Post in either 1991 or 1992 - "I am not a gangster". The scandals of [(Virajalongkorn) -E.S.]leave the Windsors in the shade

June 28th, 2006, 07:49
Read it hear while you can, folks, before Elephantspike sweeps it under the carpet like most Thais do.

June 28th, 2006, 07:54
Read it hear while you can, folks, before Elephantspike sweeps it under the carpet like most Thais do.But if this site is still banned from Thailand access (except by those of us who are proxy literate ... )?

June 28th, 2006, 09:36
This thread will probably have to be deleted. However, I am happy to have read it. I knew that the crown prince was not well loved in Thailand, but of course, Thais would never tell me exactly why. Superficially, he isn't of the caliber of the King, but I knew there must be more to it, now I really get it. Thanks. Scary times ahead maybe?

elephantspike
June 28th, 2006, 10:58
We can discuss this, but just keep the tone respectful. The posting guidelines still apply as much as they always have, regardless of any superficial official "blocking" of this site on some Thai ISPs.

June 28th, 2006, 11:27
Many Thai's say that there have been two GREAT King's, King No.5 and king No.9 (The current King). It is true that Thai's love their King and it is something I love about the Thai's.

I have also heard said 'What will we do without the King', not mentioning his death, although that is what I assume they are referring to considering his age. It may well be, considering what has been said about the possible succeedents, that Thai's are worried about the future of their country too.

With the greatest respect, long live His Majesty The King.

June 28th, 2006, 11:41
It is true that Thai's love their KingAnd there's a very good reason for that. The various Thai elites have decided that their best bet for a continuation of the status quo ie. their privileged position, is to persuade the masses of the virtues of a paternalistic society, with the monarch at the apex. This was a conscious decision and can be seen being worked out in the media and in schools (in particular). A reading of (say) Baker's A History of Thailand or the forthcoming book The King Never Smiles set out this agenda very clearly. However most Thais have got a pretty good idea that such a notion depends on the personal virtue of the particular ruler, and they're exceedingly anxious about the king-in-waiting. I know many Thais abroad who don't plan to return to Thailand until the situation clearly resolves itself. Once you know one or two Thais really, really, really well then you might venture a question such as "The king is such a wonderful man. Why is his son like that?" There's no need to be specific about what "like that" might mean. One Thai I'd known for 15 years before venturing to ask such a question gave a very surprising (to me) answer which had to do with the morals of a senior blood relative of the Crown Prince (not his father ... work it out for yourself)

June 28th, 2006, 12:05
I really hope he hangs on for another 30 years or more!

June 28th, 2006, 13:47
In this horse race, not all that different in many regards from the question of who will replace Queen Elizabeth, the "Athletic" Princess takes first. The medical doctor daughter places second. And, third place is a dead heat between the former Mrs. Jensen (aka "anyone have a karaoke machine?") and the Prince. This, of course, is aside from technicalities of disqualification based on marriage to commoners, and which of the four is of sound enough health to assume the Throne and remain for more than a few years.

Thai people are not the least bit shy about stating their opinions of the children of the King and Queen, if you have gained any confidence at all. Watching Thai musicians walk off stage in disgust while the eldest daughter sings and a Thai audience walk out while booing, and listening to Bangkokian matrons who incessantly grapevine about the palace foibles and its royal inhabitants is everyday material in Thai life.

Yes, Thai people have a great deal of respect and love for the current occupant of the Throne. However, many Thai remain opposed in general to the perpetuation of monarchy. The assumptions farangs make about the adulation for the present King and any absolute felt need for continuation of the Chakri Dynasty is spurious. It helps if you speak and understand Thai language fluently. The nuances about these matters as expressed through semantics of classical Thai language are unmistakable.

TrongpaiExpat
June 28th, 2006, 14:01
I was watching Crown Prince Vajiralongkorn closely on the local tv during the 60 year celebration. He seems uneasy in front of the camera and the TV crews gave him a lot of camera time.

Yesterday during the news and another news photo op of the Prince, the BF said in the privacy of our room, he no good, has HIV too. The BF then dropped to the floor and wai'ed and bowed three times in forgiveness for making a negative comment. He then said he has to go to the Wat and show Buddha respect for what he said about the Prince.

June 29th, 2006, 08:25
Watching Thai musicians walk off stage in disgust while the eldest daughter sings and a Thai audience walk out while booing, and listening to Bangkokian matrons who incessantly grapevine about the palace foibles and its royal inhabitants is everyday material in Thai lifeIt is exceedingly unwise to base your assumptions of how things will pan out based solely on the behaviour of the Thai middle class and their superiors in Bangkok. Thaksin won in a canter in every election because the vast majority of Thais don't live in Bangkok and aren't middle class. The same holds true for the institution of monarchy. That's not to say that in the medium term Virajalongkorn won't wreck the institution so badly that even the huddled masses look for an alternative

Hmmm
June 29th, 2006, 18:55
That leaves the king's second eldest daughter Sirindhorn. The athletic princess, who hasn't married, and by all accounts isn't likely to...



The "athletic" princess ... what a delightful euphemism, appeciated I'm sure by us "confirmed bachelors".

June 29th, 2006, 20:41
The "athletic" princess ... what a delightful euphemism, appeciated I'm sure by us "confirmed bachelors".In her case, I am informed, there is no observable activity, so - as in the case of many bachelors - this is mere speculation

June 30th, 2006, 01:43
There is one thing i have always wanted to ask and that is , where does the king and his family get there money from. In the uk the Queen is paid an income to pay for the wages , of her staff and also travel costs etc,plus she also has her private income on which she now pays income tax. Is it the same in thailand

June 30th, 2006, 07:42
Strictly speaking the above statement is not quite accurate in the details. HM The Queen and certain members of the Royal Family receive incomes and also other amounts directly and indirectly to pay for the cost of the Royal Households. However they receive this income because in a previous reign (was it King George III) the estates of the Crown from which the monarch of the day had personally defrayed the costs of the family and the Household (ie. servants of one degree or another) were transferred to the control of the government, in return for the upkeep of the family and the Households being paid by the government. Over time this has been to the immense benefit of the government. The Queen and some other members of the royal family have independent incomes from various hereditary titles and the landholdings that go along with them eg. Duchy of Cornwall. On those they pay income tax

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page4971.asp

In Thailand the fortunes of the royal family are largely although not exclusively managed by the Crown Property Bureau. Whether the King actually owns the property and assets managed by that Bureau are, like so much else in Thailand, somewhat unclear, and opinions vary. I do know that royal servants (and that includes, say, teachers at Chritlada Palace School) are paid stipends that are not subject to tax because they are "gifts" from the King

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhumibol#C ... rty_Bureau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhumibol#Crown_Property_Bureau)