LOVE+BUSINESS

[thaiguest]

Love and Marriage go together as the song says but what about Love and Business (gay and straight) in Thailand?

No need to repeat here the countless horror stories involving foreigners in business with their thai wives.

I have personally seen a number of gay "farang" bar owners being wiped out by their thai lover-come-manager-co-owner- whatever.

There's an old saying that goes "seldom give advice" but if a prospective farang asked me for my advice on going into business with his boyfriend I would advise him to keep the boy for the bedroom and love and hire staff to run the business.

If he was determined to go ahead anyway I would advise him not to put vital items such as leases, licenses, bank accounts etc into the lover's name.

There should be no problem with this in any case because real love never doubts or questions.
In fact it trumps all difficulties.

What advice would you guys give?

[arsenal]

Try and get him to talk to as many farang bar owners as possible. Failing that let out a long agonisingly high pitched anguished scream and start sobbing on his behalf right there in front of him.

[latintopxxx]

I call it " Thailand fever"....farangs which in their home countries would be totally ignored bevause they are past their prime and are only financially comfortable are suddenly encountered with a situation where they are suddenly gods gift to man kind...the sexiest thing that ever set foot on the planet..and by ordinary Thai stabdards also fabulously wealthy to boot,
They simply cannot resist....and no amount of advice will work because they are in LOVE...and it will not happen them.

[BOY69]

As Hillary wrote once at the Pattaya Mail many farangs leave their brain at the airport luggage storage closet once arriving to Thailand =P~

[dinagam]

If you want your Thai business adventure to succeed, date a successful Thai businessman, and spread the risk 50:50.

[thaiguest]

If you want your Thai business adventure to succeed, date a successful Thai businessman, and spread the risk 50:50.

Good idea and these rich kids do exist, especially in Bangkok.

However for our purposes here they're a long-shot residing as they do in the upper zone where it's all sweetness and light.

I'm more at home in the murky world of the lurking conger eels and bottom-feeders and I have company here to boot-and they're generally not bad company.

[bruce_nyc]

I just say, "Don't be stupid."

Don't go to a plumber if you need dental surgery.

If you need a business partner, don't off him at a gogo bar.

If you simply want to "help" your boyfriend "build a better future".... Do what I do.

First, teach him that running his own business will be the hardest most difficult job he's ever had.

Second, it will be a cold day in hell before I invest a in a business for him.... until *after* he has successfully worked his way up through every position in that type of business.... and remained at the top level, running it successfully, for a minimum of 3 years. Altogether, that would probably take 5 to 10 years. Otherwise, how do I ( and how does *he* ) know that he can do it....?

I tell him, if we want to just throw money away.... Let's take a cruise and throw all of our money into the middle of the ocean..... Or let's start a big fire and burn all of our money. Same same as starting a business that will fail.

If he can't hold down a restaurant job, and work his way up to number one manager, while making the place more profitable..... then we're all out of our minds to think he can run his own restaurant. This same principle applies to any type of business.

"If a bank won't lend you the money, why should I? If you can get a bank to lend you the money, then I will. ( but then you won't need me to )"

As for working together, side by side, every day in a business together.... Just break up with him NOW ......and never see him again. It will be much faster, much cheaper, and much less painful.... with basically the same result.... or a better result, in fact.

About every two or three months my bf has a new idea of a school he wants me to send him to. One month it's photography school. The next time it's fashion design. Then it's massage school. Next he wants to go to cooking and baking school. Then it's a school to become a hair stylist. Then he wants to open his own business of some type... It never ends.

My answer is always the same: "As soon as you have worked for a successful professional in that profession for one year, with him as your mentor every day... ( as a paid job or unpaid internship ---- either one is fine ), then I will absolutely pay to send you to school to further your professional education. But not one day before that."

Some might call it tough love. I call it, having a tiny bit of sense. The concept is very simple. If you're *really* serious about this, prove it. You must do something big to prove that this is really your passion *and* that you have the willpower and aptitude to do it successfully in the real world..... *BEFORE* I even think about investing one cent of my money or one hour of my time.

[egel]

What advice would you guys give?

Simples.

I would give him a list of all the bar owners I know who have died, jumped from condos, run away, disappeared, in jail on trumped up charges, or just fucked off home.

The I would give him a list of those (not long) who are still in business....

[Diec]

Brucey, is it possible for you to make a post without all the "quotes" you somehow deem appropriate?

[Dodger]

thaiguest wrote:


What advice would you guys give?

I would give him the same advice I gave my son when he was 12 years old. I told him to take a pencil and write down a short list of potential consequences that may ocurr if the decision he was contemplateing was wrong. Than I told him to circle the worst consequence on his list...then to sit back and look at what he had circled. I then told him that if he was willing to accept that conseqence if the decision he was making failed, then go for it, because life is an adventure...BUT, if he wasn't willing to accept that consequence, then DON'T DO IT.

I remember him telling me once that that was the most valuable lesson he ever learned.

[bruce_nyc]

Why are 12 year olds so much better able to learn a lesson like that.... than 52 year olds are....?

[Dodger]

bruce_nyc wrote:


Why are 12 year olds so much better able to learn a lesson like that.... than 52 year olds are....?

I think it's because 12 year olds haven't developed the need to become dillusional yet...LOL

[fountainhall]

If you want your Thai business adventure to succeed, date a successful Thai businessman, and spread the risk 50:50.

Good idea and these rich kids do exist, especially in Bangkok.
Contrary to what many seem to believe, thaiguest is spot on. One friend of mine of similar vintage met a young Thai on gayromeo more than 10 years ago. After leaving school in his early teens, this young man had built his own small business which had become quite a success. They moved in together soon after. Working as a team the business has grown exponentially. They have been through a civil partnership ceremony and will get married next year. So it does happen, although infrequently!

[Jellybean]

From my reading of these stories over the years I am not convinced that anyone considering a business adventure with their Thai boyfriend would seek out advice from their friends. And even if they did, I fear it would probably fall on deaf ears.

Like many members here I have read on the message boards, thaivisa.com and Thai newspapers, many horror stories of mainly straight fa-r├аng being ripped off by their Thai female partners or wives. The novel, Private Dancer by Stephen Leather more than adequately covers this subject and is billed as a must read for all visitors to Thailand intending to use prostitutes.

But my only personal knowledge of a business being set up by a fa-r├аng for his Thai boyfriend is of a friend from the UK who bought a host-bar for his Thai boyfriend. My friend had no business experience having been in the medical profession for most of his life. The boyfriend, an ex-bar-boy, also, as far as I can remember, had no previous experience of running a business. My friend allowed the boy a free hand to run the business into the ground. Despite hounding my friend to buy the business for him, he took little interest in it once purchased. It was probably too much like hard work for him. Friends of the boyfriend were installed as manager and barman and they appeared to take a greater interest in the bar than their indolent and absentee employer.

Very poor quality boys, mainly straight, were recruited. There was little discipline and a general lack of respect for my friend, the Thai owner and the manager. They showed little interest in the customers and appeared to treat the whole affair as a joke. It seemed to me an exercise in how not to run a bar. The lighting was too bright; there was no music and next to no pleasant, inviting atmosphere. I frequently asked my friend why he didnтАЩt take a greater interest in the bar and attempt to persuade his boyfriend to make changes, which might just possibly secure more business. He told me his boyfriend resented him getting involved; all he wanted from him was money. It was depressing, a very sad state of affairs.

My friend was very generous and used to turn up every night and buy all the boys a drink. All he wanted to do was make his boyfriend happy. But from an outsider looking in point of view, his boyfriend seemed to me to equate happiness with getting more money out of my friend.

Sadly this relationship ended badly. Some might say it was doomed from the start. The boyfriend kept asking for and received a greater monthly allowance. He bought an expensive car, bought an expensive house for his family and squandered money on gambling, drugs and prostitutes.

But still the boyfriend didnтАЩt have enough money and began pressurising my friend to sell his house and move to a cheaper property and thereby release capital for his benefit.

I thought the boyfriend was out of control and my friend endlessly complained about him. When I said, тАЬWhy donтАЩt you kick him out and change the locks?тАЭ His chilling reply was, тАЬYou donтАЩt know how angry he can get.тАЭ

The boyfriend also pressurised my friend to draw up a will with the boyfriend as the sole beneficiary. I was horrified when I heard this and tried to persuade him not to go down that road. However, within weeks of a Thai will being drawn up my friend died from a fatal knife wound the day after he disturbed a burglar in his house.

The above is, of course, a very negative account of a fa-r├аng/ Thai boyfriend business relationship. But unfortunately, it is the only one which I have personal knowledge. I am not therefore in a position to relate a more positive example where things have worked out well and the Thai boyfriend has turned out to be quite the entrepreneur. But I see that fountainhall has already provided a more positive story, so it clearly does happen.


Try and get him to talk to as many farang bar owners as possible. Failing that let out a long agonisingly high pitched anguished scream and start sobbing on his behalf right there in front of him.
Great post arsenal, it really did make me laugh out loud. :)


As Hillary wrote once at the Pattaya Mail many farangs leave their brain at the airport luggage storage closet once arriving to Thailand =P~
I read something similar BOY69 in the book, Confessions of a Bangkok Private Eye: True stories from the case files of Warren Olson written by Stephen Leather. ItтАЩs a statement that always comes to mind when I read about yet another case of a fa-r├аng getting ripped off.

[latintopxxx]

Good Lord...remind me to never " date" a MB more than 3 times...

[thaiguest]

Following on from Jellybean's tragic case example I'm familiar with a case that falls into into an in-between zone in terms of ripoffness.

The farang in question has set up his gay Issarn boy up in different rural based projects including rice fields, coconut trees and rubber trees.

The mission also involved the construction of a veritable mansion for himself and the boy, the extended family and the dogs.
The house is not tucked away behind a grove of trees but is built slap-bang on the side of the dirt road opposite the tin shack that once was home but now houses grandma's hens and ducks.

More than $100000 has been spent already but the farang sees this as both BUSINESS & an expression of LOVE and he seems happy about it.

The boy is very happy of course because to "save" money everything is in his name.
Before now he was ignored in the local town but now he gets high WAIs all around as he walks down the street except from the local police chief who now owns only the 2nd largest house in the Tambon.

I know that no profit has been made yet partly because the family members have decided that they can't live in a mansion and work in a rice field so field workers are hired.

But everyone is happy so who am I to be negative?

[BOY69]

Most likely once the falang cash will stop flowing
They will kick him out from the property.

[catawampuscat]

The same things happen in the West. Older men get fleeced by younger men and women
and ignore advise, deny reality and cling to their absurd fantasy that what they feel is
mutual. No fool like an old fool.
I've learned not to give advise as the only way to learn is through experience.
Some fools never learn and keep falling in love and repeating the same foolishness
until the money runs out and they kill themselves.
When farangs complain about how much money they give to their boys and the boys don't
even have sex with them anymore. Obvious advise, dump the boy but the farang clings
to his fantasy, denies reality until the bitter end.

[latintopxxx]

think its a little more difficult to get fleeced in the west in the same way that happens in thailand...at least the law is fairly impartial. But this does reinforce my view that in thailand everything should be rented from housing...to " love"....

[Dodger]

My boyfriend Thep and I spend 2 -1/2 years building a home which now houses his parents, one elderly aunt, our dog (named (Tauhoo), and two young boys named Pan and Ape, and the building of this home was, without question, one of the best things I've done in my life.

Before we built this house, his family lived in an old rice storage bin. It was just one of those small tin-roofed shacks you see all over the Isaan landscape, half the size of a one car garage back in the West The only thing of any value inside was a small TV that Thep and I gave to his parents several years previous. The electricity rarely worked and there was no running water. The home that we built (his money and mine) is a two story Thai style house, complete with tiled floors, a large in-door kitchen for his mom, and 2 hung nams, one on each level. The lower level was intened for his family memebers, and the upper level, for us.

As some of you know, Thep passed away in 2012 due his drug addiction, It wasn't the drugs (Yaba) that killed him, but the drugs are what led to the circumstances which took his life.

I returned to the home in 2013 to visit the family for the first time followng Thep's death and was a bit surprised. I had assumed that the family would now be living on both levels of the home, but instead, his grandmother had tied a string across the staircase which led to the upper level where Thep and I lived preventing anyone from going up the stairs. His sister Phot then told me that no one would be permitted to reside on the second level other than me. I walked up the stairs and saw everything exactly as Thep and I had left it during out last stay. My fishing gear was still out on a table where I last sat toying with some fishing lures, Thep's drawings were still laying at the foot of the bed where he did his last sketch, and our clothes were still hanging in the closet untouched. Needless to say, this was a difficult moment for me emotionally.

Evan when we were building the house I had visions of Pan and Ape living there one day when they were fully grown - long after I was gone - and it was a great feeling, and that feeling lives on. I didn't build the house for ME, I built it for THEM, as did Thep.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that anyone should run out and build a house for their boy-of-the-moment, but just wanted to share my feelings about the joy of giving, so you don't forget what life is all about.

[catawampuscat]

Easy for many of us to get cynical. Dodgers story heartwarming and a reminder that it's not all about us.

[BOY69]

There are some genuine honest Thai boys but they are minority ,unfortunately most of them are money diggers.

[bruce_nyc]

Really the worst part is that it's almost impossible to tell them apart.... Between the honest good hearted boys and the plotting evil conniving ones.

If only there was a simple test you could buy at the drugstore...

[lukylok]

There are some genuine honest Thai boys but they are minority ,unfortunately most of them are money diggers.

The thai money diggers are in the same proportion than the cheating, repulsive, tight fisted farangs ! :))

[bruce_nyc]

The thai money diggers are in the same proportion than the cheating, repulsive, tight fisted farangs ! :))

Maybe that's why it's exceedingly rare for a good hearted farang to meet a good hearted Thai money boy and make a relationship. The odds are against it.

( By the way, how can a farang be "cheating" on a money boy? Are you talking about monogamy? Or some other type of cheating? )

[BOY69]

There are some genuine honest Thai boys but they are minority ,unfortunately most of them are money diggers.

The thai money diggers are in the same proportion than the cheating, repulsive, tight fisted farangs ! :))

Correct :p
Nobody here is a divine angel it's a game of interests between falangs and Thai boys .The gold rule is enjoy their company , don't take them too seriously and you'll be fine .

[BOY69]

Really the worst part is that it's almost impossible to tell them apart.... Between the honest good hearted boys and the plotting evil conniving ones.

If only there was a simple test you could buy at the drugstore...

There is a simple test if you really like the boy tell him that you are ready for making a commitment but he has to obtain a proper job and you can't afford any support for poor parents , sick bufalo , blind sister ,brother in debts act. and you'll see that most of them will run away from the window :o) =P~

[Dodger]

bruce_nyc wrote:


If only there was a simple test you could buy at the drugstore...

Actually, I think the only test - is the Test of Time.

It's not all that often where a boy who has motives to "take the farang for all he's got" have the patience or where-with-all to to fake it for more than 2 years, thus the reason I think a minimum of 2 years in a relationship (with anyone) should be the benchmark for taking the relationshiop farther...especially when it comes to making large financial contributions or commitments.

As crazy as this is going to sound, I apply the same rules as I do to gambling. On the rare ocasions that I visit Las Vegas, I only take enough money to have a good time, with no real regrets about losing what I walked in with. I consider this a worthy donation for the opportunity the casino provided. If, by chance, I win a little money, I just consider it the luck of the draw. But, most importantly, I never gamble with more than I can afford to lose.

[bruce_nyc]

I think you're right. Time is the only way. My first thought, of course, is.... Two years is a very long time to wait.... just to find out he's up to no good.

On the other hand, you're right! I never thought about it that much.... but you're right. Two years is an *eternity* for a boy who wants to swindle you... and isn't getting anywhere. They don't have the patience!

I've been with my bf for 3 years now. I feel pretty confident that I know him. He loves expensive things and expensive trips and such. Who doesn't? But the moment I mention the cost. He always says, "Ok. We won't go." ....or, "We not buy.", or whatever. I also catch him coming up with clever ways to save us money. The other day we had to take a taxi for a 2 hour ride ( long story ). Just before we arrived, the driver and he were talking for a long time in Thai. Later I asked him, What was that all about? He said, "The driver wanted more money for the tolls. But I told him that we paid 5 of the 7 tolls ourselves and the overall price should include the tolls anyway." Woah. I was surprised that he made such an effort to save us like 75 baht. Apparently, he remembers that Mr T car service charges us one flat fee to Pattaya and that includes all the tolls. lol

There's no way I can be 100% certain that he's not with me only because he has some master plan to fleece me. But I'm pretty sure. His actions are always extremely loving --- much more so than any American bf I've ever had. He's wanted me to buy a condo, but he knows that I have *very* strong beliefs against buying property. I only rent! I will never buy. Now he never ever mentions me buying a condo or house. He knows very clearly that if he wants to buy a house for his family, he's going to have to go to the US with me, get a job, work hard, and save his own money. Uniquely, he seems to have a strong sense of pride in that he really doesn't *want* it to be my money that buys a house for his sister and nephews anyway. He wants to do it himself. I really respect that very much. Maybe it's because he's not Thai. Not sure. He's Shan ( Tai Yai ). He lost his father at a very young age. And lost his mother when he was 17. They lived very isolated lives in the Shan mountains with no electricity or tv or phone.... until he went to Thailand alone to work... at 17. I don't really know where a person like that gets his character. Maybe it's from movies, maybe from friends/mentors he's developed as an adult, or maybe his parents had time to instill it in him. I really don't know. But he has a very strong sense of knowing what's right and what's wrong.

[BOY69]

Glad to know Bruce that you have such a good relationships with your BF . In my opinion you have a good boy because he doesn't have parents so there is no pressure from family to send money and this is the main reason why most of the relationships between falangs and thai failed , secondly because he's Shan and not Thai it's a different culture and I assume he doesn't have too many thai freinds who tends to make a bad influence (drugs,alcohol,gambling act.) and pressure to spend money on them.

[Dodger]

Bruce...

I agree with Boy69. It sounds like you have a great boyfriend, and the fact that he doesn't have a family to provide for certainly eases the tensions.

Nothing's perfect in this world, including us or the Thai boys, making "compromise and acceptance" such important factors.

[christianpfc]

There are some genuine honest Thai boys but they are minority ,unfortunately most of them are money diggers.
I know plenty of genuine honest Thai boys, I haven't met any of them in a gogo or host bar.

Really the worst part is that it's almost impossible to tell them apart.... Between the honest good hearted boys and the plotting evil conniving ones.

If only there was a simple test you could buy at the drugstore...
I haven't met many plotting evil conniving boys; but plenty of stupid, lazy and unreliable ones, and a few thieves* and liars; and I can quickly tell them apart from the good boys.

*One confirmed, he even admitted but we didn't dwell on the subject. I just asked "did you steal 600 Baht last time", and he replied "yes", but I still see him because he is so cute, but now I keep my money safe. Two more where I'm not sure, will count my money before and after I meet them, and give them an opportunity to access my wallet while I'm in the shower.

I would advice against mixing love and business. My aunt used to work in my uncle's business, she wasn't happy and found a job elsewhere to keep business and private life separate.

[loke]

I like to be careful about spending money , but if I see with my own eyes it is for a good cause I might contribute financially if he is a good friend and I have visited the family in the past . Since I live in Thailand most of the year it's a lot easier to understand some of the problems the boy's face here daily. But they know I am not a rich guy lol . So for me it's easier to separate real friends from money diggers. Once you show off your wealth it's too late to regret I guess .

[BOY69]

There are some genuine honest Thai boys but they are minority ,unfortunately most of them are money diggers.
I know plenty of genuine honest Thai boys, I haven't met any of them in a gogo or host bar.

Really the worst part is that it's almost impossible to tell them apart.... Between the honest good hearted boys and the plotting evil conniving ones.

If only there was a simple test you could buy at the drugstore...
I haven't met many plotting evil conniving boys; but plenty of stupid, lazy and unreliable ones, and a few thieves* and liars; and I can quickly tell them apart from the good boys.

*One confirmed, he even admitted but we didn't dwell on the subject. I just asked "did you steal 600 Baht last time", and he replied "yes", but I still see him because he is so cute, but now I keep my money safe. Two more where I'm not sure, will count my money before and after I meet them, and give them an opportunity to access my wallet while I'm in the shower.

I would advice against mixing love and business. My aunt used to work in my uncle's business, she wasn't happy and found a job elsewhere to keep business and private life separate.

Correct the few honest boys I met were not working in go go bars or
Host bars ,I guess shady places attract shady boys ...
Most of the money boys will tell you tragic stories to explain why they sell their bodies but the true is that most of them are too lazy or stupid to work on proper job .

[dinagam]

What the moneyboys need(or are lacking) are good role models who can impart on them positive attributes.
And a big dose of discipline.
I'm sure some of the successful moneyboys have good discipline in managing their lives in their chosen profession, and not totally dependent on their youthful beauty.

[BOY69]

What the moneyboys need(or are lacking) are good role models who can impart on them positive attributes.
And a big dose of discipline.
I'm sure some of the successful moneyboys have good discipline in managing their lives in their chosen profession, and not totally dependent on their youthful beauty.
There are some succesful moneyboys that saving money for betrer future or
engage on a long term relationship with wealthy falang , but most of them need to support their poor family or just wasting their money on drugs , alcohol, prostitutes atc. .

[latintopxxx]

Good point about role models...but I suspect that even if a MB has the right intentioin, that us to save up and invest in revenue generating or inflation proof assets like land or buffalos or what ever works in Thailand I suspect that his " friends' and even family will drain his resources or misdirect his spending towards instant gratification involving alcohol and such like.

[anonone]

Oh crap. I have been with BF for 4 years now. I guess I am 2 years overdue for some major investments. LOL