Turning tables

[bucknaway]

I often read on here how posters stick their head in a bar, look at the guys that are on offer and make a snap decision not to enter and to try another bar. Can you imagine if the guys in Thailand were able to turn the tables?

Imagine if us visitors we're all sitting in a bar waiting for ty guys to come in and choose us. We'd all be sitting or standing on the stage in our underwear. Hey young sexy thai guy sticks his head in the bar and looked all over for an instant and ducks out.

I imagine he would complain to his friends how us Farang were in the bars looking uninterested and chatting with each other..... how we were not dancing to the music and even would have the nerve to say a few of us were chubby.

I imagine that even a few of us Farang would promise to do everything but fall short back in the hotel room causing the Thai guy to complain and getting us kicked out of the bar...

Some of us may even end up getting kicked out of so many bars that we may have to troll beach road f or action only to be round up with the farang drag queens that bother the people at night....

Yeah, I like things the way they are now. Please Lord, don't let them turn the tables.

[latintopxxx]

buckyboy...usually i kina enjoy/agree with your posts...but this is just so silly....I have the cash...so I rule....simple....my wish is the money boys command...I'm under no illusions that the boy likes me...he likes my money...don't confuse the relationship.

[oldfarang]

buckyboy...usually i kina enjoy/agree with your posts...but this is just so silly..
Agree on that part

In my case I would probably have sex with fellow farang YOUNG dancers for free. =))

[bucknaway]

Okay, I admit it. I was in a silly mood when I made this post :-)

[Mancs]

I once naughtily told a Thai man who only told me he wanted 1500 baht as we approached my hotel that I charged 5000 baht. And he believed me and disappeared.

[latintopxxx]

this woudn't be totally surprising, last time i was in BKk (at the malaysia hotel) there was at least 2 foreign (brazilian and an american) escorts on grindr. I didnt ask what they charged.

Can you imagine if the guys in Thailand were able to turn the tables?As opposed to turning tricks?

[bruce_nyc]

I would absolutely love it if the tables were turned... Easy money. Sex is always free. Easy work. Work is over in an hour. Hot guys chasing *me* sometimes. Many offers of free room and board, free trips, etc. Sounds fabulous. I'd save every dime and invest it. I'd be the best little money boy in town... loads of happy customers. :)

Last year, I met a 24 year old rich Thai boy on Hornet. He wanted to pay *me*. We finally negotiated a price of 4000 baht. We met. I've seen him 3 or 4 times. He still hits me up to meet... but I'm often busier these days. So I guess, technically, I am a money boy. =P~

I would absolutely love it if the tables were turned... Easy money. Sex is always free. Easy work. Work is over in an hour. Hot guys chasing *me* sometimes. Many offers of free room and board, free trips, etc. Sounds fabulous. I'd save every dime and invest it. I'd be the best little money boy in town... loads of happy customers. :)

Last year, I met a 24 year old rich Thai boy on Hornet. He wanted to pay *me*. We finally negotiated a price of 4000 baht. We met. I've seen him 3 or 4 times. He still hits me up to meet... but I'm often busier these days. So I guess, technically, I am a money boy. =P~
Think of it as "Uber for gays", Bruce. You have a resource you're under-utilising so you make it available for an appropriate charge. However most money boys do it because it's perceived as the best of the few, bad options they have, so that while each act may be consensual, overall they're being exploited

[bruce_nyc]

These statements are true of ALL labor and jobs in the world.

I disagree.

Otherwise, ALL laborers in the whole world "are being exploited"..... by that definition.

.....including me .....when I work for pay.

[Dodger]

bucknaway wrote:


I often read on here how posters stick their head in a bar, look at the guys that are on offer and make a snap decision not to enter and to try another bar. Can you imagine if the guys in Thailand were able to turn the tables?

If it were the types of farang punters you see populating places like Pattaya and Bangkok working the stages, they wouldn't even bother to look inside. Now, if Justin Beiber were on stage, they would probably enter. That being the case, I guess if the tables were turned, they would approach this much in the same manner as many of us do.

I don't frequent the gogo bars all that much, but when I do, I look for a place that has HOT boys. If I look inside a place and see that it doesn't, I just keep on walking. If a bar owner knows what he's doing, a person looking inside and not deciding to enter would be a rare event.

These statements are true of ALL labor and jobs in the world.

I disagree. My college are certainly not exploiting me in the sense that I have plenty of options about where I work, many of them good. Prostitutes commonly have few options for work, many of them bad. It's sad that you think that being an employee, by definition means you are exploited. I though Americans weren't socialists?

[bruce_nyc]

I was saying the opposite.

I was saying that, by *that* crazy definition, all jobs are exploitation.

But I disagree.

I say that *no* jobs.... where the employee is free to leave at any time, and he freely chooses to go work there day after day.... No such jobs are exploitation.

"Good" is a totally subjective word. There are many Americans who would say, "There are no good jobs in America." On the other hand, almost every type of job that exists in America, also exists in Thailand. The vast majority of Thai people *don't* choose to be prostitutes. Nobody is forcing the ones who chose to be prostitutes. They are making their own free choice. That's not "exploitation".

Or..... If *that* is exploitation, then *every* housekeeper and McDonalds employee and factory worker and hospital staffer and money boy... in America... is also being "exploited". .....which is clearly *not* true.

"Good" job options and "bad" job options are all totally subjective. Like "old people" is anyone older than you. "Young people" is anyone younger than you. "Rich people" is anyone richer that you. etc, etc..... "Bad" job options are any jobs worse than your own. Like the housekeeper in America who cleans toilets. But every job could be considered a "good" job.... to someone who wants it... and uses it as a stepping stone to make their life better.

First, they're still *options*. Even "bad choices" are still choices. Choices made of one's own free will *cannot* be "exploitation".... by definition. I'm so sick of hearing that people who freely choose to pursue a job are somehow "being exploited". The truth is.... They are exploiting a system of free trade that has the ability to bring significant money into their lives and the lives of their families... thus giving them the possibility of using it as a stepping stone to get into a better life. ( If, on the other hand, they *choose* to just throw the money away on iPhones and whiskey, that's totally on them! )

"Poor money boys in Thailand are being exploited because without this job, they don't have enough money to buy another new Apple product every month, *and* support their *entire* extended family back home."

"Poor money boys in America are being exploited because without this job, they don't have enough money to buy another 5 gucci, prada, and versace products every month."

This is total BS. Obviously. They are not "being exploited" by anyone.

[latintopxxx]

I think the the issue some/most people have is that as soon as it involves sex then its taboo and it must be exploitation. I wonder if kommie buys those cheap t-shirts and trinkets sold in the markets...which we ALL know are manufactured mostly by underpaid woman and even children...or is that ok because it doesnt involve sex??
Sex really upsets the proverbial apple cart...seems like people are Ok construction workers working in horrible conditions for 1/3 of the pay a gogo gets...but as soon as mr construction workers takes it up the rear its exploitation. Go figure...

[bruce_nyc]

I think the the issue some/most people have is that as soon as it involves sex then its taboo and it must be exploitation. I wonder if kommie buys those cheap t-shirts and trinkets sold in the markets...which we ALL know are manufactured mostly by underpaid woman and even children...or is that ok because it doesnt involve sex??
Sex really upsets the proverbial apple cart...seems like people are Ok construction workers working in horrible conditions for 1/3 of the pay a gogo gets...but as soon as mr construction workers takes it up the rear its exploitation. Go figure...

This is *sooooo* true. And what an excellent point!

Wacky female "journalists" who have nearly zero comprehension of the real world situation.... write crazed articles claiming that just about *everyone* is a child and woman sex "trafficker" and "the poor" are "being exploited" by the evil men from the West. The truth is..... entire families, and generations of families, are being supported and their lives being improved... by those "evil men". Even entire communities and cities have been created and supported by them. Pattaya wouldn't exist if it weren't for them.

A few of these wacked out female "journalists" actually visit Thailand. But they already have a preset agenda and story written before they ever come. They only plan to meet people who they have talked with in advance, and who will tell them what they want to hear. They only meet with the one or two people they can find who will tell them that woman and child sex trafficking is an epidemic here and it's Thailand's number one export industry. It's all propaganda and lies.

And these man-hating female "journalists" who do visit Thailand, use as their best evidence.... the sight of a chubby middle-aged farang man walking down the street with an attractive young Thai woman. That disgusts these man-hating women *so* much. And to them, that's evidence that the woman is being "exploited". In reality, more often, the man is being exploited. And to me, it's only "evidence" that western women don't know how to give men what men want. So men need to go elsewhere. Problem solved.

I wonder if kommie buys those cheap t-shirts and trinkets sold in the marketsWhat a vulgar thought

As I've said before I think that prostitutes are exploited in the same way as Native Americans or slaves - both an integral part of American history, North and South - were exploited. To pour contempt on construction workers as having somehow a less fulfilling job than the white collar jobs that most posters here enjoy is, sadly, the sort of response I've come to expect from bruce_nyc and latintopxxx who seem to think that money is the measure of all things, and the more a man is paid the more he must enjoy his work

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ur-is-over (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/27/the-era-of-cheap-labour-is-over)

[latintopxxx]

kommie...sweetie...dont get all het up...relax...your opinion is fine, I respect that...all good...but doesnt mean I agree with it...and as for attaching a newspaper article...u do understand that just because its in print doesnt actually mean its true..its just the journalists opinion...
I actually think that being a MB/gogo boy/whore/prostitute is a profession, a genuine way to make a living...some peoiple wash and cut hair for a living...others do massages...others get fucked...

[bruce_nyc]

And the workers in New York who choose to "get fucked" for a living.... are making a helluva living. At $250 to $500 an hour cash, no taxes, for males. And $600 and up an hour cash for females.... They are among the highest paid workers in Manhattan.

In Thailand, similarly, they are almost always among the highest paid workers from their entire home region.... ( usually Isaan or Shan or South Thailand ).

It makes total sense why they CHOOSE this type of work rather than any of a thousand other types of jobs they could do.

Calling them "exploited" is similar to calling lottery winners "exploited' by the Lottery Commission. The truth is they are among the luckiest people in their hometown.... No matter what country on earth that town is in. As long as it's their free choice to seek out that job.

[Dodger]

Being a Money Boy in Thailand can mean Big Business.

Before the economic recession a few years ago, and the decline in farang customers, working as a money boy was an extremely lucrative job. This opportunity attracted hundreds (if not thousands) of boys from all social and economic levels in Thailand to the scene, including university guys studying to be lawyers and doctors, boys who came from hi-so life styles, etc., and of course a flood of boys flowing from impoverished Isaan wanting to get in on the action. A Superstar (popular boy) was , and sometimes still is, earning as much as 60,000 - 80,000 baht/month which is more than a commercial airline pilot in Thailand, which, according to Thai Salary Rankings, is one of the highest paying jobs in The Kingdom.

The entire landscape in Thailand is dotted with expensive homes resulting from the money earned (or swindled) by those who chose to enter the working boy or working girl scene. The average working boy was making ten times more money than the local police officers, and the superstars were making more than the Mayor. This was, and in some cases still is, Big Business.

If someone is going to apply the term "exploitation", then the term would have to be applied equally to both, the working boy and the farang customer, because, in reality, they are both using each other as instruments to achieve their own personal desires. The fact that they are both doing so freely makes the term "exploitation" meaningless.

On-the -other-hand, if a working boy uses his charms and sexual appeal as a device to intentionally manipulate the emotions of a customer for the purpose of taking advantage of the customer because of his desire for more money, than the boy is guilty of being abusive, for the mere fact that he is exploiting the emotional vulnerabilities of the customer by applying unethical behavior. If a customer uses his money as a device to intentionally manipulate a money boy by expecting him to perform duties which are harmful (either physically or psychologically) because of his desire for immoral sex acts, then the customer is guilty of being abusive, for the mere fact that he is exploiting the economical vulnerabilities of the working boy by applying unethical behavior.

I guess my opinion is, it's not so much what you are doing, but how you are doing it, that matters the most. If a working boy and customer are willing to share what they have with each other and respecting each other in the process, it can create a very satisfying and harmoneous balance. If either of the parties have underlying motives to abuse the other, than all bets are off, and the term "exploitation" can appropriately come into play.

[arsenal]

They want us. We want them. Either both are exploited or neither.

[latintopxxx]

Dodger...well written, but define "immoral sex acts"...
To the vast majority of the world sex acts between two males would be immoral....and seeing a fat sweaty farang slobbering over a Thai MB young enough to be his grand son the height of perversity.
Some MB don't like kissing or rimming...or even performing a BJ?!?! So is it abusive that I insist that he must do everything because he said he would...is it abusive that I make full use of the 2 or 3 hours I booked because we agreed upon it?? Sure I enjoy the look of " surprise" on his face when he realises that I'm gonna fuck him more than once during our date...or that if I figure out that he's not too keen on rimming then I'll spend half the date sitting on his face...I pay...so I rule...and the acts I perform on him are all part and parcel of " normal' gay sex...not like I insist on fisting him!!!
Sure some MB cant take anal action for as long as I like...they seem to specialise in Thai quickies...like its supposed to all be over within 15 minutes of insertion...and I like to fuck forever...and love alternating between long slow strokes and some rather vigorous arse pounding...and do love seeing the MB under a bit of strain...but thats what he's paid for.

kommie...sweetie...dont get all het up...relax...your opinion is fine, I respect that...all good...but doesnt mean I agree with it...and as for attaching a newspaper article...u do understand that just because its in print doesnt actually mean its true..its just the journalists opinion...
I actually think that being a MB/gogo boy/whore/prostitute is a profession, a genuine way to make a living...some peoiple wash and cut hair for a living...others do massages...others get fucked...
Frankly you disappoint me. Given your usually robust attitude I'd expect you to say "I don't care whether it's exploitation or not, I'm a First World male and I'm entitled to do as I please!" Instead we have these craven behaviours about whether prostitution is or isn't exploitation. Marked as a FAIL this time.

[BOY69]

I can find many cases that falangs were exploited by Thai boys/girls whom "fell in love" with them ,the poor naive falangs lost money,bussines and property...
Almost every Thai money boy/girl has a wish to put his/her hands on a falang fat wallet and to make big money!

[bruce_nyc]

Almost all of these situations happen in traditional straight marriages in the West. So I think the point is that there's nothing unusually "exploitative" about relationships between customers and money boys here.... ( that isn't also true and common in any relationship between human beings anywhere ).

[Dodger]

latintopxxx wrote:


...define immoral sex acts...

Impossible to define. 100 people would have 100 different definitions based on their own thought processes and heavily influenced by the religions they follow, and I am no exception.

I will offer the following: There is no concept of sin in Buddhism similar to Christian terms, but the closest equivalent would be avidya, which means ignorance of the nature of reality of karma. Bad deeds would result to consequences. People stop negative karma by practicing good merits. Actions are a matter of personal responsibility and accountability, and any actions performed with bad intent causing harm to another person = bad karma. Any actions performed with good intent = good karma.

Most Christian religions focus on a list of things which are considered sinful and immoral. In Buddhism, there is no list. It's the nature of the things you do that matter.

[latintopxxx]

Dodger...fully understood......and doesn't " do unto others as you wish done unto you"......or something like that cover all that?? Looks like Christianity isnt so dumb after all.