money boys & safe sex

[latintopxxx]

Do you guys always practice safe sex with money boys? If not what is it you get up to?
I always do anal with condoms but not with oral...and often (very) will come in the boys mouth or over his freshly fucked gaping hole:)
Get tested regularly (3 to 4 times a year) and to date am negative....which is not bad going considering the amount of high risk partners I've had.

As any Google search will tell you, oral sex is a low-risk transmission route for HIV. The greater risk of STDs comes from syphillis and the clap. However I never use condoms for oral sex and won't have sex a second time with someone who does. There was another thread some time ago about washing one's own hands after pissing; as I pointed out then I don't wash my cock neither do I expect do my partners in saunas back rooms or porn cinemas before we get down to business

[thaiguest]

Recent reseach I've come across (source I forget but respectable) has found that the use of a lubricant greatly INCREASES the risk of contracting hiv etc during unprotected intercourse.
I would have thought the opposite was true in that lubrication would minimise bleeding and tissue damage but it appears that this is not so.
Can anyone confirm these findings?

[Oliver]

It is, of course, up to the customer if he chooses to risk infection by not using a condom during oral sex. However, it is our responsibility to ensure that our commercial partners do so.
I am amazed that educated falangs aren't aware that oral sex can transmit the hiv virus- and other stds- if only very rarely. I know one Thai guy who today is paying a heavy price for a mistake made eight or so years ago. He had the excuse of being young at the time; we haven't.

It is, of course, up to the customer if he chooses to risk infection by not using a condom during oral sex. However, it is our responsibility to ensure that our commercial partners do so.
I am amazed that educated falangs aren't aware that oral sex can transmit the hiv virus- and other stds- if only very rarely. I know one Thai guy who today is paying a heavy price for a mistake made eight or so years ago. He had the excuse of being young at the time; we haven't.
What a load of complete tosh, Oliver. We do not have a "duty of care" towards any consenting adult.

[Oliver]

An interesting view. Is this true for all our dealings with our fellow humans, or just commercial sex?

[bkkguy]

It is, of course, up to the customer if he chooses to risk infection by not using a condom during oral sex. However, it is our responsibility to ensure that our commercial partners do so.

this applies if my commercial sex partner is a $US 1,000 a visit "escort" in New York?

or is it just the white man's burden in Thailand? where all falung here are so intelligent and have access to so much reliable information about risks during sex acts and are able to make "sensible" risk assessments? and all Thai sex workers are so ignorant and denied access to such information that they cannot make a reasonable informed personal decision? and if they do the risk assessment is obviously "wrong" anyway - at least from your perspective !

if a Thai sex worker makes an informed risk assessment about oral sex without a condom and it corresponds to a falung's risk assessment you think it is still that falung's "responsibility" to change the sex worker's mind - why?

if you really want to have an impact in Thailand try proselytizing on "safer driving" with helmets and seat belts if you feel such a strong "duty of care" towards consenting adults in areas other than commercial sex!

bkkguy

[Oliver]

This forum is for gay falangs in Thailand, many of whom participate in sex with Thais, not for drivers. And yes, I am in favour of compulsory helmets for motor-cy riders....if anyone is interested.
We are usually the buyers; the money boys usually need money much more than we do and sometimes, out of desperation consent to practices that they know are not safe. As far as oral sex, is concerned some are indeed ignorant. So yes, we do have responsibilities towards them.

[cdnmatt]

Are you stupid? Of course safe sex.

Oral is fine. The chances of you getting HIV from oral sex is about zero, so wouldn't worry about it. You can get other neat things like HPV and what not though, but even that is still pretty unlikely.

As for anal, of course always safe. Although I don't have to worry about that, as I don't like anal -- either top or bottom. If I did though, it'd definitely be safe sex at all times when I'm screwing strangers.

An interesting view. Is this true for all our dealings with our fellow humans, or just commercial sex?
Your attitude is the basis of the Nanny State, all the OH&S nonsense and safety labelling instructions we see around us these days

[bucknaway]

Lately I've been getting a lot of messages from guys on planetromeo looking for bareback sex....
I don't know if their money Boyz but I do know the request are increasing.

[Surfcrest]

Recent reseach I've come across (source I forget but respectable) has found that the use of a lubricant greatly INCREASES the risk of contracting hiv etc during unprotected intercourse.
I would have thought the opposite was true in that lubrication would minimise bleeding and tissue damage but it appears that this is not so.
Can anyone confirm these findings?
Well, your colon is a part of your large intestine where water is absorbed from the solids before they leave the body as watse. A water based lubricant and HIV virus could be absorbed into the body through the colon.

If you've frequented the bathhouses over the decades you'd know that get gonorrhea makes the rounds a few times a year due mainly to oral sex. You'd certainly notice a penis infection, but if one got it only in their throat they might spread it to multiple partners unknowingly.

Surfcrest

[latintopxxx]

I don't really fret about STDs which can be cured; as soon as I think I may have something...and I have had your usual run of the mill stuff...I get tested & treated pronto!!
My only surprise is that based on the amount of whores I fuck that I haven't been infected more often...as far as I can recall I've only been infected 4 times.

[latintopxxx]

...and further to buckynaways comment about barebacking...I'm amazed how just about all money/gogo boys r open to just about anything...they dont even check if I'm wearing a condom... and very few object when I cum in their mouths/gaping holes.

[Nirish guy]

So following on on this delightful thread then I would ask, seeing as there's SO much fucking going on apparently ( Latin) who if anyone has decided to start taking PREP ( Truvada) tablets to reduce the risk of HIV infection as based on research from a study just released this month held in San Francisco PREP use reduced the risk of infection by either 100% or 96% depending which news report one read. So, anyone here taking it and if so any complications / side effects worth noting and do you stick to the daily tablet a day routine, whether you're fucking that day or not, all as required and recommended ??

A link to a article about that PREP trial is below just in case it's of interest to anyone.

http://attitude.co.uk/prep-100-percent- ... dy-claims/ (http://attitude.co.uk/prep-100-percent-effective-in-preventing-hiv-us-study-claims/)

[bkkguy]

So yes, we do have responsibilities towards them.

so in exercising "our responsibilities" what exactly should the superior "we" be instructing the un-informed vulnerable "them" to do?

practice 100% safe sex - which excludes oral or anal sex with a condom (condoms can fail) and probably just about anything else they could do with their client?

or pick some other point on the "safer sex" scale? in which case allowing what exactly?

and if "we" can't all agree on what that point should be what should we do?

should "we" just accept that you not only have the best and most up-to-date knowledge of the relative risks of different sexual behaviors in various encounters but also have the best knowledge of cultural and personal factors that affect risk assessment decisions and are able to combine these in a way that is not based on your own cultural and personal influences and can thus offer the best risk assessment decision for every sex worker in Thailand - or at least gay ones in Bangkok and Pattaya?

you could perhaps write a few theses on the topic and nail them to the door of Boyz Boyz Boyz and start a reformation in safe sex education

bkkguy

[latintopxxx]

crap...would hate to get into an argument with you...write like a flipping lawyer :)

So yes, we do have responsibilities towards them.so in exercising "our responsibilities" what exactly should the superior "we" be instructing the un-informed vulnerable "them" to do? Us superior whiteys instructing the inferior brown races - you've skewered Oliver's attitude completely. Lefties always were the worst paternalists.

[bucknaway]

I don't have a responsibility to the taxi driver to obey the traffic laws.
I don't have responsibility to the maid to wear gloves when cleaning.
I don't have a responsibility to the waiter in a restaurant to look both ways before entering the kitchen.
I don't have any responsibility to a sex worker doing their job correctly and safely. It is my responsibility to take care of myself.

I can offer advice but if my advice is not welcome I let it drop.

[bruce_nyc]

I agree with most everything said here.... except that it's somehow my / our responsibility to be safe sex teachers. If anything, they are the professionals in that field. They should be teaching me.

In reality, we can offer advice.... or not..... but it's definitely not our responsibility.

Also in reality, the moneyboys in Pattaya are extremely often offering to do it with no condom. It's rare to find one that doesn't offer.... Especially after having seen him more than once.

The boys in Bangkok are more sophisticated. They almost never offer bareback.

And yes; now that hiv is considered a treatable condition, the bareback "scene" is growing like mad. Just check out the grindr of bareback..... bareback.com or is it bbrt.com or something like that.

[thaiguest]

Yes there's a dismantling of the progress made to date regarding safe sex awareness. That HIV can be treated long term has led to further unsafe practices.
Most expats here are older and more experienced in general than the boys (esp young or rural first-timers) so out of common human decency we the customers should do what we can to discourage barebacking etc.
Some sex customers are evil bastards and indulge in barebacking while being HIV positive. You recalll the case in Chiangmai some years ago whereby the police brought a successful prosecution against a serial HIV infector?
They're still out there and we should warn the boys about the risks. If I were a parent in a remote Issarn village I would pray that my son while choosing to sell his ass in Pattaya might be lucky enough to meet decent human beings while doing so.

[Oliver]

"Common decency".....not a very popular concept here. If one of these posters were hiv+, would he claim the right to have unprotected sex with a bar-boy? Apparently, it's the sex-worker's responsibility to check, isn't it?
Every man for himself; the Thatcher generation....no such thing as society, nor community, nor care for others. Make money , have fun, to hell with everyone else- the religion of the red-braces city spivs of 1980s London. And of Wall Street and its braying banksters who created a world recession that they themselves escaped.

[bruce_nyc]

I'm certain that the majority of customers are decent human beings, and I'm certain that the boys --- even the newcomers --- get the safe sex lecture from their friends, the bar staff, and even many of their customers.

Customers have also surely heard the information and are well aware of the risks.

That's why I think it's each person's personal choice what risks he decides he's willing to take.... as long as he's not dishonestly risking someone else's health.

The fact is, those who bottom are at the highest risk by far. There are hiv positive guys in New York ( and almost everywhere else ) who make an educated choice to bottom bareback. I think they have the right to make that choice... as long as they're honest with their partners.

[christianpfc]

Someone with HIV might be able to lead a normal life and have a live expectancy like non-infected, but there are probably side effects to the drugs. And HIV drugs are expensive and a huge burden to society.

Money spent on developing drugs against HIV cannot be spent on developing drugs against malaria or cancer. However HIV is extremely easy and cheaply to prevent (with condoms, preventing pregnancy and STIs as well), whereas malaria is difficult to prevent, and there is no prevention for cancer.

Someone who is positive and fucks others bareback others should be regarded as bodily harm in case of infection, and someone who bottoms bareback and gets HIV should not get free medical treatment against HIV, as it is self-inflicted. (Same applies to smokers who get smoking related diseases: they should pay and not get free treatment.)

[thaiguest]

Someone with HIV might be able to lead a normal life and have a live expectancy like non-infected, but there are probably side effects to the drugs. And HIV drugs are expensive and a huge burden to society.

Money spent on developing drugs against HIV cannot be spent on developing drugs against malaria or cancer. However HIV is extremely easy and cheaply to prevent (with condoms, preventing pregnancy and STIs as well), whereas malaria is difficult to prevent, and there is no prevention for cancer.

Someone who is positive and fucks others bareback others should be regarded as bodily harm in case of infection, and someone who bottoms bareback and gets HIV should not get free medical treatment against HIV, as it is self-inflicted. (Same applies to smokers who get smoking related diseases: they should pay and not get free treatment.)

Yes all very true but it's predicated on the premise that everyone is as smart as you.

Every man for himself; the Thatcher generation....no such thing as society, nor community, nor care for others.
This hoary old chestnut from the Loopy Left, selective quoting as always. Here's what Thatcher actually said:
"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours." тАУ in an interview in Women's Own in 1987

[loke]

Always safe and clean sex, if I suspect the boy is not clean I will not have sex, simple as that.

Always safe and clean sex, if I suspect the boy is not clean I will not have sex, simple as that.
Perhaps a practitioner of the "flashlight test" eh, Smiles?

[bruce_nyc]

I like Thatcher's real words better.

You can tell if he has hiv by looking at him? That's a feat!

[thaiguest]

This is one thing that Sunnee needs that MFAS forgot to mention-a strong female Thatcherite going around caning the bottoms of barebackers. That will teach y'all to behave and know yer place!

[fountainhall]

I agree with most everything said here.... except that it's somehow my / our responsibility to be safe sex teachers. If anything, they are the professionals in that field. They should be teaching me.

Sorry but I consider that a shocking and morally reprehensible statement! Thailand used to have one of the most effective safe sex education programmes in the world. The Asian economic crisis of 1997 and Thaksin's first government put an end to that. So there is a vast number of Thais in their teen years who know precious little about HIV transmission. Do their families talk about it? Perhaps a small fraction. Do their teachers talk about it? Perhaps a small fraction.

Christian probably knows more about the saunas that have sprung up in Bangkok relatively recently, most outside the centre of the city and most catering to young Thais-for-Thais. On other forums I have read a great deal about the lack of any safe-sex signage, condoms and lube and perhaps consequently a great deal of barebacking. To suggest that an 18-year old from the country comes to a place like Bangkok or Pattaya and is immediately aware of the full horrors of HIV and what it will mean for the rest of his life is he gets the virus (assuming no cure is discovered), is utterly naive. Sure his mates in a bar might tell him. But what if he merely freelances on a social networking site? And thinking that HIV is no longer a mortal disease, how will he react when a punter offers Bt. 2,000 instead of 1,000 to chuck the condom away?

This has nothing to do with a nanny state. It has all to do with responsibility for the well-being of a fellow human-being whatever he might do for a living and however much or however little knowledge he may have. Visiting western barebackers know precisely what they are doing. Getting their rocks off with someone who does not is now tantamount to a crime, in my book.

[bruce_nyc]

I've never met a moneyboy in thailand ( in a bar or online ) that didn't alteady know full well about hiv, its consequences, and about condom use to prevent it. The same is true in New York City.

However, in Thailand, in *spite* of their being educated on the risks, *many* offer to forgo the condom if they like you, especially after you've been with them a few times.

In New York, where people are bombarded with these safe sex messages, they are much *less* strict about condom use. There are huge communities that have abandoned all condom use..... knowing full well the potential consequences.

Education does not correlate to the final decisions people make. Sometimes it's about money. Sometimes it's about romantic feelings. Sometimes it's about being rebellious and demonstrating ones own freedom. .....or any combination of these reasons.

But to think that more government sponsored posters plastered on every wall is going to change real people's real behaviours.... is way beyond naive.

My bf is an example of a person who's almost fanatical about safe sex. He is also Shan and never attended one day of schooling of any type in his life. He taught *himself* to read and write 3 languages so far. He simply has a strong sense of self, and self esteem. He loves himself enough to protect himself. Many people don't. They are young and old. They are in Thailand and USA and everywhere. This is what it's about. It's not really about education any more ( unless the person is a child of 10 years old ).

[Oliver]

I have been astonished by some of these responses. It is a nonsense to claim that all the guys who are active on the commercial scene are fully-educated about hiv. Most of them know the basics, I'd suggest, but there are aspects that are not appreciated.
For example, the need to use condoms within their sell-by date; and to store them in cool places, or at least not directly in the sun; then there's the folly of putting one condom on top of another for "extra strength" (In fact, the friction causes damage). These are things I always mention to Thai young men, often to their surprise.

And since this thread previously dealt with oral sex, I note that some falangs themselves are not aware that there is a small chance of hiv infection during fellatio, particularly if one of the participants has gum problems. They are entitled to take chances with their own lives but not with the young Thais whom they buy.

[bruce_nyc]

In my experience, young Thai moneyboys are at least as well educated about hiv/condoms as New York City moneyboys are. And, in fact, ThaI moneyboys *always* insist on using a condom ( at least the first time they meet you ). Whereas in New York, they *don't* all insist on condom use.

It's a misnomer that Thai moneyboys are uneducated on this subject.

Also, intricate technical details like using 2 condoms increasing risk.... Most falang in this forum probably didn't even know that.

And the idea that condom use is important for oral sex is just not true. It's been disproven by countless people over many years. It's probably just as beneficial to wear condoms on your hands and ears. ( After all, what if he shoots into your ear? That is probably much more likely than getting hiv via oral sex. )

[Oliver]

There is a risk, according to specialists in the UK, but a small one. That's enough for me to insist on condoms. I also wear a helmet on motor cy taxis despite being 99.9% certain that I won't be injured between Boyztown and Tuc Com.

[Brad the Impala]

It's a misnomer that Thai moneyboys are uneducated on this subject.



It's not a misnomer but it might be a misconception.

[francois]

......whereas malaria is difficult to prevent, and there is no prevention for cancer.


Actually there is now a vaccine for malaria prevention known as Mosquirix. As for lung cancer it is the most preventable form of cancer simply by not smoking. And there is a vaccine for HPV, the only vaccine so far which prevents cancer. And finally, Truvada effectively prevents HIV infections if taken on a regular basis if one can afford it.

[fountainhall]

Truvada effectively prevents HIV infections if taken on a regular basis if one can afford it.

At around $45/day not many I expect! A generic equivalent is not expected till late 2021.

[francois]

At around $45/day not many I expect! A generic equivalent is not expected till late 2021.

Yes an expensive way to bareback!

[loke]

I agree wtih Bruce. maybe if you're not too picky and find a poor streetboy, someeone who is not educated about anything really, in the commercial scene it is not much of a question if they want to use a condom, just my observations but i'm not a butterfly much .

[thaiguest]

I like Thatcher's real words better.

You can tell if he has hiv by looking at him? That's a feat!

A feat for sure.

And regarding the scary anal and pubic warts -it appears that they're not connected to the HPV virus now becoming a significant cause of throat cancer among gay cocksuckers.

So, CLEAN can be an illusion-a whited sepulchre-and the strait and narrow path to the whited sepulchre.

(Is it possible that I got the correct spelling for sepulchre at 2am with 4 large Changs on board?) No I didn't ...yes I d..

[bruce_nyc]

Yes. Not only expensive..... Just imagine what those prophylactic antiviral medications are doing to your body. Side affects, permanent damage, etc.


I agree wtih Bruce.

That's all I had to read.... to know I like you. ;-) Why do I hear that statement so rarely....?

[latintopxxx]

crap...after reading all this i will never have sex again...

[bruce_nyc]

crap...after reading all this i will never have sex again...

ha ha ha ha

I somehow doubt that.

[TravellerDave]

Regarding oral sex. I have now been in Pattaya two weeks enjoying gay sex with a number of money boys, usually involving me sucking and licking their cocks and sometimes getting cum in my mouth. Before and after I avoid brushing my teeth for a few hours. Then I give my mouth a good wash out with mouthwash. I do not know if this does any good but after eight years I have yet to have an infection.

Regarding oral sex. I have now been in Pattaya two weeks enjoying gay sex with a number of money boys, usually involving me sucking and licking their cocks and sometimes getting cum in my mouth. Before and after I avoid brushing my teeth for a few hours. Then I give my mouth a good wash out with mouthwash. I do not know if this does any good but after eight years I have yet to have an infection.
Thanks for sharing that, Dave, it's in the best tradition of a poster I'm forbidden to mention. I prefer a double scotch and soda (no ice)

[firecat69]

Truvada effectively prevents HIV infections if taken on a regular basis if one can afford it.

At around $45/day not many I expect! A generic equivalent is not expected till late 2021.

Just in the interest of correct information. That $45 per day is for thieving drug companies in the USA. In Thailand it is less then $3 per day ( still fortune for a Thai)and although I don't know probably similarly priced in all of Asia etc.

And before anyone asks I bring it back on return trips to help a friend out who is getting raped by the drug companies in the USA. 2800 baht for 1 month supply ( purchased at the Pharmacy that supplies the Kings Hospital and depending on insurance coverage , it could be much more then $45 per day in the USA.

I buy blood pressure medicine in Thailand for less then my co-pay under Medicare in the USA. Drug companies are modern day bandits!!

[bruce_nyc]

Before and after I avoid brushing my teeth for a few hours. Then I give my mouth a good wash out with mouthwash. I do not know if this does any good but after eight years I have yet to have an infection.

That's probably a very smart and effective strategy. Listerine. Do a Long lasting gargle.


I buy blood pressure medicine in Thailand for less then my co-pay under Medicare in the USA. Drug companies are modern day bandits!!

That's for sure! And they talk about corruption in Thailand..... The USA is the leader in corruption..... top secret corruption.

[Oliver]

Thanks for that wise advice TravellerDave. It confirms that small cuts in the mouth, or between the gums (as evidenced by the appearance of blood after cleaning and flossing) make unprotected oral sex potentially dangerous. It's up to you whether you wish to take the risk but to expect money-boys to do so is, simply, wrong.
I always talk to Thai guys I meet about this; a few are aware of the dangers, most aren't. And I know one who was diagnosed HIV+ a few years ago and is convinced-rightly or wrongly- that his infection was the result of oral sex.

[francois]

Drug companies are modern day bandits!!

What the USA drug companies should do is same-same as Thai and Indian companies; just make copy-cat drugs that these Thai and Indian companies have spent their millions on developing. That would teach them a lesson, put the shoe on the other foot.

[firecat69]

What I'm buying is nothing to do with a copy cat drug. Original Gilead Packaging and sold by the most reputable pharmacy in BKK.

In addition most drugs have millions of $ government money to help develop these kind of drugs. The difference in the USA is that you have many levels of thieves profiting on these and many other drugs. How else could you explain , just cross the US border into Canada and you find the same thing. Drugs a fraction of the cost that the thieves charge US citizens. They don't spend hundreds of millions in Washington DC for any other reason then to screw the average person while the drug companies , insurance companies and pharmacies like CVS make Billions off drugs that in many cases were paid for by US tax payers.

The cost of a particular drug in Thailand vs. "back home" is case-by-case as this earlier thread (http://sawatdeenetwork.com/forum/post287491.html) points out

[Dodger]

TravelerDave wrote:


Regarding oral sex. I have now been in Pattaya two weeks enjoying gay sex with a number of money boys, usually involving me sucking and licking their cocks and sometimes getting cum in my mouth. Before and after I avoid brushing my teeth for a few hours. Then I give my mouth a good wash out with mouthwash. I do not know if this does any good but after eight years I have yet to have an infection.

Dave,

For years I used Listerine Total Care mouthwash immdiately after sex for the same reason, but now prefer pineapple. I know this sounds strange, but a doctor friend of mine in the States (who is also a health & fitness guru) informed me once that using a mouthwash like Listerine daily can actually reduce the amount of natural bacteria fighting chemicals we have in our mouths which may be counterproductive. He strongly recommends pineapple, which, according to him, is a very effective way to kill bacteria without diminishing our bodies natural bacteria fighting chemicals.

I keep a few cans of pineapple juice and a container of fresh pineapple in my fridge at all times for this purpose.

I remember the little old lady who runs a fruit cart near my room telling me once..."Oh...you like pineapple too much - you eat every day".

As a side-note: Semen can be a good source of natural protein (.5 grams per serving), but you'd have to suck at least 120 cocks per day, and swallow of course, to get your RDA (Recommended Daily Allowance). I use this rationale to help justify why I do it so much.

[Maxxy]

Truvada effectively prevents HIV infections if taken on a regular basis if one can afford it.

Okay I'm heading over for a week in October, all my sex will be with the massage boys (protected) so what would be the recommended dosage of Truvada? I would have thought that the massage boys would be a bit cleaner (in way of the usual stds than the gogo boys but I know it all comes back to their last encounter but an extra bit of prevention can't be a bad thing. I was in touch with a Gay Romeo escort (TOPYOUNGER7INCHES) but given what and how he wants to finish off I have decided to give him a big miss, his words were he will "cum deep inside of me" but NO thanks, that is way too risky for my liking