Queer Southeast Asia: Recognition, Respect & Legitimacy

[Up2U]

Over the past few decades, diverse new cultures and communities based on same-sex preference and transgender identity have become increasingly prominent in all the countries of Southeast Asia.

Across the cultural, ethnic, and religious diversity of region, and despite the distinctive colonial and semicolonial political histories of the modern states of Southeast Asia (see Jackson 2010), new lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) identities have emerged in the context of dramatic transformations in gender and sexual cultures. In this issue of Kyoto Review, тАЬqueerтАЭ denotes sexual and gender practices, identities, cultures, and communities that challenge normative masculine and feminine gender roles and/or transgress the borders of heterosexuality. тАЬQueerтАЭ here also labels a critical theoretical perspective that understands all genderings and sexualities as emerging from contingent historical and cultural conditions.... (read more)... http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/queer-s ... egitimacy/ (http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/queer-southeast-asia-recognition-respect-legitimacy/)

Related articles:
Same-Sex Relationships: Moves to Recognition in Vietnam and Thailand http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/same-se ... -thailand/ (http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/same-sex-relationships-vietnam-thailand/)
The Death of Gay Malate: One-Time Gay Capital of the Philippines http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/death-g ... ilippines/ (http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/death-gay-malate-philippines/)
Activism to Decriminalise Homosexuality in Singapore http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/decrimi ... singapore/ (http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/decriminalise-homosexuality-singapore/)
Familial Transphobia and Kinship of Opens in Myanmar http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/familia ... s-myanmar/ (http://kyotoreview.org/issue-18/familial-transphobia-kinship-opens-myanmar/)

"new"?

[PeterUK]

(read more)...

No thanks. I prefer English to Sociologese.

[Up2U]

(read more)...

No thanks. I prefer English to Sociologese.
Me too, but I found the the article Death of Gay Malate interesting and see some Thailand parallels.

[latintopxxx]

i would guess that what has happened with malate has also happemed worldwide, most gay venues that I was familiar with up to 25 years ago are a shadow of their former self...places like cape town, thailand, rio, sao paulo, amsterdam, barcvelona, madrid, paris...the public raunchiness is gone, bars are half empty,manynvenues closed...meanwhile the online party is growing...

[Smiles]

Me too, but I found the the article Death of Gay Malate interesting and see some Thailand parallels.
.... rather like the End of Sunnee Plaza wailings which pop up 4 or 5 times a year . . . talking about a man for all seasons.
I thought the Malate death spiral descriptions were very interesting, reminding me of my last trip to Vancouver this summer and the moribund gay scene there now, as opposed to the quite vibrant city of the 70's, 80's, and part of the 90's
I do agree with Peter though, the gay pop-psychology (the most dreary of all such species) in the last, "summing up" part was bordering on the unreadable.

[fountainhall]

I found the the article Death of Gay Malate interesting and see some Thailand parallels.
As do I! I well remember Coco Banana. Long week-ends from Hong Kong were easy and cheap during the 1980s and Coco Banana would be the first hang-out I'd head for. It was not a large space but it was always possible to find an agreeable companion. Then there was the famous 690 Retiro Strip much further out. A huge barn of a place with several catwalks and many gorgeous guys on stage, it was packed to the rafters at week-ends. Both now long gone.

As has been discussed several times here and on other Boards, apart from there being many fewer go-go bars in Bangkok, there is definitely far less diversity in the entertainment provided now than was the case in the 1980s and into the 1990s. And there is a great deal less fun - in the sense of a sort of joie de vivre. Nothing now bears any resemblance to the shows at Barbiery across from Soi Twilight. Like 690 Retiro Strip it was bulging at the seams at week-ends year round with a majority of the audience being youngish Thais. When was the last time any of us saw many dozens of young Thais in a Bangkok go-go bar?

If I recall correctly, most of the bars did attract a majority of Thais, although Barbiery seemed to have the youngest group. The original Twilight always had good week-end crowds, as did the long dead Apollo, My Way, Super Lek and their ilk.

Glancing through the article on the death of Malate as a gay centre brought to mind a comment made in his book Bangkok Found by the author Alex Kerr. Published 5 years ago he compares the wide range of nightlife on offer in Bangkok with Berlin in the dying days of the Weimar Republic.


"In time, the more outrageous forms that prostitution takes in Bangkok (sex shows, go-go bars with half-naked boys or girls with numbers on their panties gyrating on tables) will disappear. Bangkok stands far out on the table of what most cities in the world consider acceptable. I don't believe it will last. Slowly but surely we are seeing a clampdown, and it's a matter of time before the 'sinful' Bangkok we see today fades away into legend, just as 1920s Berlin did."
Not being a Pattaya regular, my comments relate only to Bangkok.

[bruce_nyc]

Meanwhile, Grindr, Hornet, Jackd, etc are full of mostly young Thais. Why go out ( and spend money ) when a bigger party with better selection tools is literally in your pocket day and night....

Also, there are tons of gay sex massage shops that are located far outside of the gay tourist meccas, that don't have any web sites or listings ( in English ), and cater to an almost exclusively Thai clientele.

Centralized gay tourist meccas used to be a necessity. But now we always have a gay bar in our pocket.

Note: I'm not saying it's necessarily better. Probably worse. Especially for the money boy scene.

The future will be apps like https://www.ohlala.com/en/ where money boys/girls can discreetly choose among customers, in real time. I still don't know how these apps will prevent the problem of the guy showing up at your door looking nothing like the photos, and being all strung out on drugs..... other than maybe an Uber-like rating system ( which would work *both* ways )....

If only I could figure out how to use Hornet etc productively. I'm thinking of stating in my profile, "Looking for money boys." ( While everyone else's profile says, "No money boys." Also, it's weird that some Thai guys have chatted to me asking me, "How much you give me?" Then it's up to *me* to set the price. That's just weird to me. If I say 500 baht, they say no and they're gone. If I tell them to set the price, they ask for some ridiculously large amount like 5000. It's crazy. And you can't even really see what they're like. Go go bars are still *much* better.

But now we always have a gay bar in our pocket.
Is that a gay bar in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?

[thaiguest]

Friends who go to Manila tell me that the Malate district has been developed as a business center and most of the old venues were demolished as a consequence. Not for any reason to do with a decline in the gay scene.
Berlin of the "Roaring Twenties" fell victim to a moral brigade . This brigade thought it necessary to rid the city of immoral and sinful vice before it got down to the real clean-up of scum of the human kind namely gypsies, jews, homosexuals, the mentally and physically retarded and anyone who disagreed with them.
America is full of these evangelical neo-nazis now.
Islamic countries are falling like kingpins to their own version of these hateful bastards. After the "moral clean up" in in Europe all kinds of marginalised protesters, poets etc were welcomed in the N African muslim countries. Not any more.

Re the decine of gay bars in Canada, San Fransisco etc- FAG HAGS started the rot and always do so.

[Up2U]

Thailand names gay-themed drama as foreign-language Oscar contender
By AP News Sep 24, 2015
BANGKOK (AP) тАФ Thailand has selected a gay-themed drama, тАШHow to Win at Checkers (Every Time)тАЩ, as a contender for the foreign-language category at the 88th Academy Awards.
The movie is about an 11-year-old boy being raised by his gay, older brother in a poor Bangkok suburb.... (read more)... http://asiancorrespondent.com/135765/th ... contender/ (http://asiancorrespondent.com/135765/thailand-names-gay-themed-drama-as-foreign-language-oscar-contender/)

[Up2U]

Leading Thai transgender activist files lawsuits against Thammasat University
Submitted by editor2 on Mon, 12/10/2015
Kongpob Areerat
An embattled transgender activist has filed charges against one of ThailandтАЩs most famous universities for not hiring her as a fulltime lecturer under тАШunjustтАЩ reasons despite her facultyтАЩs approval.
Kath Khangpiboon, a well known LGBTI activist from Thai Transgender Alliance (Thai TGA), on Monday at 11 am, 12 October 2015, filed lawsuits against Thammasat University, the second oldest university in Thailand, and the university committee at the Administrative Court of Bangkok.
She alleged the university and its committee of malfeasance for turning her application as a lecturer down without тАШunjustifiableтАЩ reasons..... (read more)..... http://prachatai.org/english/node/5534

[Up2U]

14 October 2015
Thammasat Cites Risqu├й Lipstick for Rejecting Transgender Prof
By Sasiwan Mokkhasen

BANGKOK тАФ Thammasat UniversityтАЩs rector yesterday defended his boardтАЩs refusal to employ a transgender academic, saying it was due to an inappropriate photo she posted online, not her sexuality.

Although Kath Khangpiboon, 29, had passed all necessary examinations, rector Somkid Lertpaitoon insisted a photo of a penis-shaped tube of lipstick posted to Instagram nearly a year ago was a sign of her improper conduct online and an indicator she would not be a good teacher.... (read more)... http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.ph ... 6&section= (http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1444805544&typecate=06&section=)

[Up2U]

Two-Faced Thailand: The Ugly Side Of 'AsiaтАЩs Gay Capital'
The country welcomes LGBT tourists with open arms, yet it still lacks policies to protect basic human rights.
Dominique Mosbergen Senior Writer, The Huffington Post
Posted: 10/20/2015
At Wat Kreung Tai Wittaya, a Buddhist temple in Chiang Khong, Thailand, transgender teens are being taught to be тАЬmore manly.тАЭ

тАЬWe cannot change all of them but what we can do is to control their behavior to make them understand that they were born as a man тАж and cannot act like a woman,тАЭ Headmaster Phra Pitsanu Witcharato told Agence France Presse in 2011.

At the temple, boys between the ages of 11 and 18 undergo strict training to help them shed their тАЬgirlishness.тАЭ... (read more).... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lgb ... b8000d30a6 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lgbt-thailand_5616472ee4b0dbb8000d30a6)

Politically incorrect of me, I know, but when the activists start wittering on about "the LBGTI community" I want run around shouting "G - yes; B - probably; L, T & I - never". Once upon a time "queer" was a very respectable word referring to us faggots (or pooftahs, if you're an Australian). Now it's almost entirely meaningless, having been hijacked by a bunch of Leftists who want everyone to believe that they are the spokespersons for a large and united pressure group, and therefore are worthy of respect and attention.

[Up2U]

I know other gay men share your view, I don't. The battle for personal and sexual freedom encompasses everyone in the LGBT community. It was well understood that although the media called it "gay" marriage, the SCOTUS ruling on "gay" marriage applied to all people regardless of sexual orientation.

the LGBT communityThere is no such thing

[Up2U]

Maybe not in Kansas but there was in San Francisco where I come from.

Maybe not in Kansas but there was in San Francisco where I come from.
Define "community"

"Community: the condition of sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common"

Gays - love cock
Bisexuals - like cock
Lesbians - hate cock
Transexuals - (a) despise the cock they've got, or (b) want a cock they haven't got

Where's the community?

[PeterUK]

Gays - love cock


Didn't Franck compose a piece of music about that, Penis Angelicus?

Gays - love cock


Didn't Franck compose a piece of music about that, Penis Angelicus?
Indeed. And Franck, you will recall, was a member of the Heterosexual community.

[Up2U]

Gays - love cock


Didn't Franck compose a piece of music about that, Penis Angelicus?
Indeed. And Franck, you will recall, was a member of the Heterosexual community.
Perhaps Peter composed Penis Angelicus but I heard Franck's Panis Angelicus being sung at RFK's funeral by Richard Tucker and later a staple of Pavarotti's.

I heard Franck's Panis Angelicus being sung at RFK's funeral by Richard Tucker and later a staple of Pavarotti's.All three were notorious members of the H community

[Nirish guy]

I thought there was no such thing as a community based on sexual preferences ? God it's hard to keep up......

I thought there was no such thing as a community based on sexual preferences ? Precisely my point

[anonone]

"Community: the condition of sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common"

Gays - love cock
Bisexuals - like cock
Lesbians - hate cock
Transexuals - (a) despise the cock they've got, or (b) want a cock they haven't got

Where's the community?





[youtube:3dwqt72w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ZHP55gdjs[/youtube:3dwqt72w]

Modern Family!! How does everyone feel about the stereotype of the fat fairy presented there?

[Up2U]

ThailandтАЩs trans sex workers seek empowerment, not pity
by Siam Voices | 11th November 2015 | By Julia Boccagno
PATTAYA, ThailandтАФItтАЩs 8pm in this popular beach resort, well-known for its nightlife. The flashes of electrifying neon signs stand out against the black sky; the sounds of competing bar music make it impossible to decipher any lyrics; the sights of men wrestling with cobras make tourists go googly eyed with amazement and anticipation.... (read more).... http://asiancorrespondent.com/2015/11/t ... -not-pity/ (http://asiancorrespondent.com/2015/11/thailands-transsexual-workers-seek-empowerment-not-pity/)

[bruce_nyc]

Politically incorrect of me, I know, but when the activists start wittering on about "the LBGTI community" I want run around shouting "G - yes; B - probably; L, T & I - never". Once upon a time "queer" was a very respectable word referring to us faggots (or pooftahs, if you're an Australian). Now it's almost entirely meaningless, having been hijacked by a bunch of Leftists who want everyone to believe that they are the spokespersons for a large and united pressure group, and therefore are worthy of respect and attention.

What's "I" stand for? Interracial? Intrafluidalsexuality? IndependantProstitutes? Indians?

PS - If I, as a gay man, don't even know what the idiotic acronym *stands* for.... What's wrong with this ..... oh! Wait! I know what the I stands for.... Idiotic. What's wrong with this Idiotic picture....

Update: Wow. That took a lot of googling...


Intersex is a group of conditions where there is a discrepancy between the external genitals and the internal genitals (the testes and ovaries). The older term for this condition, hermaphroditism, came from joining the names of a Greek god and goddess, Hermes and Aphrodite.

Yea. That's me. I can totally identify with that.

@-)

I think we should add a VPA to the end.... so it's like LGBTIVPA..... to be inclusive of those who have been a Victim of Penile Amputation too. We want to be inclusive, right?

It's all good. ( as long as the term lesbians always comes before the term gay )

Personally, I always use the term, " LGBTQQIP2SAA and Other Queers Community ". ( source: https://hulshofschmidt.wordpress.com/20 ... community/ (https://hulshofschmidt.wordpress.com/2012/07/11/whats-in-an-acronym-parsing-the-lgbtqqip2saa-community/) )



Two QтАЩs to cover both bases (queer and questioning);
I for Intersex, people with two sets of genitalia or various chromosomal differences;
P for Pansexual, people who refuse to be pinned down on the Kinsey scale;
2S for Two-Spirit, a tradition in many First Nations that considers sexual minorities to have both male and female spirits;
A for Asexual, people who do not identify with any orientation; and
A for Allies, recognizing that the community thrives best with loving supporters, although they are not really part of the community itself.