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sweetlover88
August 26th, 2015, 20:23
Just curious to know if anyone has some updates about Saranrom? Are there still boys available there for 500 baht?

christianpfc
August 26th, 2015, 23:55
Business as usual, 500 Baht. Starts slowly around 9 pm and gets busy 10 pm. A lot of walking for me (don't like to drive by by taxi). I spot around 30 boys in one round. High turnover, if you see someone cute, take him. Check ID for age before taking back to hotel. Details of encounters see my blog.

latintopxxx
August 27th, 2015, 05:25
oh dear where's the pricing nazis....500bht for a " boy" ..imagine the scandal..the abuse...gasp....u taking advantage of the poor downtrodden locals.

sweetlover88
August 27th, 2015, 09:20
Thanks Chris,

What about the boys selection last time you went? (Not in term of numbers since u already elaborated those but physically what they look like) is it always the same or?

BOY69
August 27th, 2015, 11:59
Business as usual, 500 Baht. Starts slowly around 9 pm and gets busy 10 pm. A lot of walking for me (don't like to drive by by taxi). I spot around 30 boys in one round. High turnover, if you see someone cute, take him. Check ID for age before taking back to hotel. Details of encounters see my blog.

Hi Chris

Can you send the link in your blog for this ?

Smiles
August 27th, 2015, 12:30
Business as usual, 500 Baht. Starts slowly around 9 pm and gets busy 10 pm. A lot of walking for me (don't like to drive by by taxi). I spot around 30 boys in one round. High turnover, if you see someone cute, take him. Check ID for age before taking back to hotel. Details of encounters see my blog.
Hi Chris
Can you send the link in your blog for this ?
It's in his post.

latintopxxx
August 27th, 2015, 17:06
there is a link to the blog but not to the saranrom park bit, so one has to hunt all over to find it, thats what I believe he meant.

scottish-guy
August 27th, 2015, 17:50
By all means you can "hunt" all over Christian's blog to find all his Saranrom news...........


........... alternatively you could take the radical option of typing "saranrom" the search box at top left of the page.....

:))

chillnorther
August 27th, 2015, 18:48
After following that process I found the content interesting and recommend it. That's an aspect of Bangkok I don't know-- only know about. Always a pleasure to expand the horizon.

I don't know Christian from Christ so I can speak objectively. I spent a fair amount of time perusing the blog, enjoyed it, and will be back.

Jellybean
August 27th, 2015, 23:17
. . . I don't know Christian from Christ so I can speak objectively . . .
Ah, but to know ChristianPFC is to love him chillnorther. I see from your comments that that glorious, dare I say, spiritual experience still awaits you.

I have heard that he does, or at least did, arrange forum member tours of Saranrom Park. IтАЩd check with him by PM to see if he still arranges such tours, i.e. if you are at all interested.

;)

dab69
August 28th, 2015, 11:48
Actually just wondering how that would work anyway, trying to explain to a taxi driver to drive around and pick up boys.
(As most customers are driving around ?) Alternatively to have taxi driver drop you off and you hail another taxi to take you to a hotel nearby?
Hoping there are plenty of empty taxis cruising around in the area of the park.

Too much needs explained when you have never seen the area in question except by map.

bkkguy
August 28th, 2015, 19:09
Too much needs explained when you have never seen the area in question except by map.

I suppose the ultimate irony would be to spend a fortune on a smartphone and data plan just to get google street view so you could pick up guys at the park cheaper that at the bars!

bkkguy

christianpfc
August 29th, 2015, 12:38
Taxi drivers don't know Saranrom Park (or my pronunciation is poor), I ask to go to Wat Po or Sanam Luang and walk from there, but in most cases I take the bus to go there and return by taxi (might have to wait some minutes for an empty taxi).

If you tell the taxi driver р╕лр╕▓р╣Ар╕Фр╣Зр╕Б h─Гa d├иk (literally: look for child, but here meaning look for prostitutes (of legal age)), he will probably drive you around slowly, then stop when there are boys standing on the sidewalk, so they can come to your window and you can negotiate. I witnessed this many times, but it's not my style, I walk around.

I have been with the one or other Farang friend. There is a large variety of boys, but some days might be slow business.

Posts about Saranrom are labelled as "street trade" and/or "Saranrom" on my blog. Last year I made some posts dedicated to the park like http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2014/0 ... 82014.html (http://christianpfc.blogspot.com/2014/08/saranrom-update-monday-04082014.html)
this year only some lines in "gay activities of the month".

loke
August 29th, 2015, 16:50
To me it sounds like AYOR , but have fun if you can.

bastrecht
August 24th, 2018, 16:54
Seeing as the posts here are from 2015, any news on saranrom? Is it still the place to go and if so which area exactly?

Blacktouch
August 24th, 2018, 18:39
Seeing as the posts here are from 2015, any news on saranrom? Is it still the place to go and if so which area exactly?

I've been there over 3 years ago, and it was very busy with boys walking around. I counted well over 30 boys of all types. But very AYOR.

They walk around a few streets near the park. Also at one point, one side of the Palace if I remember correctly?

christianpfc
August 24th, 2018, 18:48
From my rare drive-pasts (on the way home from Sake disco), there is some trade left, and it looked promising. It seems to concentrate to the area on both sides of the canal south of "City Walk" (gay restaurant / bar on Atsadang road).

bastrecht
August 24th, 2018, 19:00
From my rare drive-pasts (on the way home from Sake disco), there is some trade left, and it looked promising. It seems to concentrate to the area on both sides of the canal south of "City Walk" (gay restaurant / bar on Atsadang road).

Thanks, sounds like it's worth checking it out. What other places do you recommend for a twink lover?

christianpfc
August 24th, 2018, 19:42
If you are going to pay, go to Pattaya. If you are looking for free encounters, online.

(At least that's what working best for me at the moment. Others might prefer saunas (free), massage (pay), discos (free), or are happy to pay the prices most Bangkok gogo bars now ask for.)

Nirish guy
August 24th, 2018, 19:59
Thanks, sounds like it's worth checking it out. What other places do you recommend for a twink lover?

So, let me get this right, so you're going to Bkk ( for the first time??) for just 4 nights and you're thinking of intending to spend your limited and very valuable time there cruising street trade around Sananrom Park in the hope of finding a twink there rather than hitting the bars / go go's etc where you're guaranteed to find same ?

bastrecht
August 24th, 2018, 20:05
If you are going to pay, go to Pattaya. If you are looking for free encounters, online.

(At least that's what working best for me at the moment. Others might prefer saunas (free), massage (pay), discos (free), or are happy to pay the prices most Bangkok gogo bars now ask for.)

Ok, so a lot of guys here are going on about Pattaya. Is that like Twink heaven in Thailand? If so where?

bastrecht
August 24th, 2018, 20:07
That is a good point especially if the chances are good at the bars. But It is my second time and last time I saw the massage places and all the guys were very muscular (and seemd to me to be in their late 20s). That is why I am hoping to find out what's a sure bet for the limited time I have.

christianpfc
August 24th, 2018, 20:11
Saranrom is absolutely not for newbies. Some nights there is only little trade, and you will be disappointed not finding anyone to your taste. Most of the boys speak no or poor English.

frequent
August 24th, 2018, 20:24
It’s amazing how much you can catch with just a single fishing rod if you use the right bait

bastrecht
August 24th, 2018, 20:35
It’s amazing how much you can catch with just a single fishing rod if you use the right bait

That sounds very deep and wise. What is the right Twink bait?

francois
August 25th, 2018, 00:05
Regarding go-go bars, for twinks or otherwise, in Pattaya there are only two areas. One is Boyztown and the other is Sunee Plaza. There are only 4 go-go in Sunee Plaza and 6 or so in Boyztown, so easy to check them all out.

In Sunee Plaza, Winner Bar is good for twinks and Nice Boys is not good for twinks. In Boyztown, Cupidol is good for twinks and BoyzBoyzBoyz is not good.
The other bars are mixed and there are always exceptions.

Message houses are in Boyztown (not twinky), Jomtien Complex (mixed) and Day-Night Area (twinky).

Others may have differing opinions.

poshglasgow
August 25th, 2018, 00:09
That sounds very deep and wise. What is the right Twink bait?

Eh cash?

goji
August 25th, 2018, 01:08
What is the right Twink bait?

In Thailand about 1000 baht, although they will be swarming around your rod for 1200.

scottish-guy
August 25th, 2018, 01:14
She was only the fisherman's daughter but when she saw his rod she reeled

Josan
August 25th, 2018, 04:51
dab69 "Actually just wondering how that would work anyway, trying to explain to a taxi driver to drive around and pick up boys."

This is Bangkok. Go to the hotel desk and show where you want to go on a map and have them write in Thai telling the taxi driver where to go. Twice the hotel staff went with me to the street, called a taxi and told them just where I wanted to go and what I wanted him to do!

Remembering this is Bangkok, the funniest time was when the hotel staff person was telling the taxi driver where to go but the driver wanted to go the opposite direction - to home he said. A police man came along and informed the driver that in Bangkok the driver must take me where I wanted to go and told the driver exactly what to do! The driver did well!

dab69
August 25th, 2018, 06:54
wondering if Saranrom is on one of those tours from Malaysia Hotel car service...
Grand Palace is on the list and the old guy must have seen everything by now being the Malaysia

Josan
August 26th, 2018, 03:03
I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but many of the guys at this park are just privates from the nearby barracks wanting to have spending money for the weekend.

latintopxxx
August 26th, 2018, 03:57
sounds like a porn movie script

bucky13
August 26th, 2018, 04:13
And who wouldn't want to be part of that script? A hot young military guy that loves a quick roll in the hay for a thousand baht.

BUT (seriously), is this the kind of place where the risk - outdoor cruising - is just a bit toooooo dangerous? or are we talking relatively a safe spot to find a diamond in the rough??

frequent
August 26th, 2018, 05:58
And who wouldn't want to be part of that script? A hot young military guy that loves a quick roll in the hay for a thousand baht.

BUT (seriously), is this the kind of place where the risk - outdoor cruising - is just a bit toooooo dangerous? or are we talking relatively a safe spot to find a diamond in the rough??Definitely AYOR, and your fluency in Thai will also be tested

paborn
August 26th, 2018, 07:07
And who wouldn't want to be part of that script? A hot young military guy that loves a quick roll in the hay for a thousand baht.

BUT (seriously), is this the kind of place where the risk - outdoor cruising - is just a bit toooooo dangerous? or are we talking relatively a safe spot to find a diamond in the rough??

Frankly, something I would never do unless I lived in Thailand and had the time. I question if even using the apps is time well spent on a few weeks vacation when I can get a massage in the daytime and off a stunner in the evening.

StevieWonders
August 26th, 2018, 09:13
Seeing as the posts here are from 2015, any news on saranrom? Is it still the place to go and if so which area exactly?Your looking for street trade because you feel uncomfortable with the age limits the bars impose? Am I reading you right?

Gaybutton
August 26th, 2018, 09:23
What is the right Twink bait?

https://image.ibb.co/er9Ssp/Baht.jpg

kittyboy
August 26th, 2018, 09:48
And who wouldn't want to be part of that script? A hot young military guy that loves a quick roll in the hay for a thousand baht.

BUT (seriously), is this the kind of place where the risk - outdoor cruising - is just a bit toooooo dangerous? or are we talking relatively a safe spot to find a diamond in the rough??

With the apps on phones I am not sure why younger Thai guys would be cruising I assume (wrongly?) that it would be easier to download an app and cruise online. Why would they bother to walk around a park or any public space trying to meet up or hook up for baht?
Just curious is anyone has thoughts. I currently live in the US and from what I can tell the old cruising spots (public parks, rest stops along expressways) are not very busy as the apps are safer and more efficient.

frequent
August 26th, 2018, 10:22
With the apps on phones I am not sure why younger Thai guys would be cruising I assume (wrongly?) that it would be easier to download an app and cruise online. Why would they bother to walk around a park or any public space trying to meet up or hook up for baht?
Just curious is anyone has thoughts. I currently live in the US and from what I can tell the old cruising spots (public parks, rest stops along expressways) are not very busy as the apps are safer and more efficient.If they're just cruising, sure. But the guys in the park are selling themselves, and you maximise your chances of getting a customer if you take the multi-channel approach. That's also why you see boys from the bars on the Apps as well

Smiles
August 26th, 2018, 10:29
" ... would be easier to download an app and cruise online. Why would they bother to walk around a park or any public space trying to meet up or hook up for baht? ..."Danger, sweet danger dear Kitty. Encountering face to face, in the dark, with a guy who you ~~ a few minutes previously ~~ had caught from afar that perfect object of desire, but only the black sillouette under low lights and shadows of trees, the hunted. Now he is approaching you (and you him), slowly, throbbing, upper lip sweating, sweet fear, now the sillouette ~ he's close ~ shedding black, now coloured lips, bulgeable.
Will he be that same Desire when finally nose to nose? Are you still throbbing? Is he? Walk away, with? Then reach for It. Walk away without? Turn around ... fast walk. You've got ten seconds.
This ain't no cheesy app!

Captain Swing
August 26th, 2018, 13:12
Danger, sweet danger dear Kitty. Encountering face to face, in the dark, with a guy who you ~~ a few minutes previously ~~ had caught from afar that perfect object of desire, but only the black sillouette under low lights and shadows of trees, the hunted. Now he is approaching you (and you him), slowly, throbbing, upper lip sweating, sweet fear, now the sillouette ~ he's close ~ shedding black, now coloured lips, bulgeable.
Will he be that same Desire when finally nose to nose? Are you still throbbing? Is he? Walk away, with? Then reach for It. Walk away without? Turn around ... fast walk. You've got ten seconds.
This ain't no cheesy app!

No cheesy post either. Poetry! Honest to God poetry! Here on the Sawatdee Gay Forum! Who woulda thunk it?

frequent
August 26th, 2018, 13:18
No cheesy post either. Poetry! Honest to God poetry! Here on the Sawatdee Gay Forum! Who woulda thunk it?Next it will be Dadaism (http://www.artyfactory.com/art_appreciation/art_movements/dadaism.htm)

gerefan2
August 26th, 2018, 13:43
Next it will be Dadaism (http://www.artyfactory.com/art_appreciation/art_movements/dadaism.htm)

Next will be plain English. A post from the freak that doesn't need the use of Google to understand it.

frequent
August 26th, 2018, 13:51
Next will be plain English. A post from the freak that doesn't need the use of Google to understand it.The pearls are genuine; it's the swine who are imitation

gerefan2
August 26th, 2018, 14:01
Any REAL Authority does not need asserting...

paborn
August 26th, 2018, 19:29
Next will be plain English. A post from the freak that doesn't need the use of Google to understand it.

Dear Gerefan, you've put the cart before the horse my friend. The freak uses google to find arcane things to say. He entire effort is not to add to the conversation but to appear an intellectual. It's really rather sad.

Smiles
August 26th, 2018, 21:32
Dear Gerefan, you've put the cart before the horse my friend. The freak uses google to find arcane things to say. He entire effort is not to add to the conversation but to appear an intellectual. It's really rather sad.I'm not absolutely sure whether Frequency was just 'Going Esoteric' on us or that he keeps Google ready to go beside his bedside just in case a smart ass one-liner comes floating out of the blue.
Whatever ... he certainly had me made reaching for it -- Google that is -- regarding Dadaism and found at least one painting there which was filled to the brim with delicious chaos. Kind of like this message board.

kittyboy
August 26th, 2018, 22:39
If they're just cruising, sure. But the guys in the park are selling themselves, and you maximise your chances of getting a customer if you take the multi-channel approach. That's also why you see boys from the bars on the Apps as well

It does make sense - multi channel marketing.

I was in China this summer and used Blued and I met up with 5 guys.
2 of them spoke very very little English, but Blued has a translation feature.
So we would type a message in Blued, wait for it to arrive on the other persons phone, and then they would translate.
It was a slow process but it worked.

christianpfc
August 27th, 2018, 11:53
I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but many of the guys at this park are just privates from the nearby barracks wanting to have spending money for the weekend.
Not my experiences. I saw boys from all backgrounds. Years ago, I have even met students who spoke okay English. In Saranrom, I found boys from all over Bangkok, as far as Samrong. Which suggests that is no such area elsewhere in Bangkok.


With the apps on phones I am not sure why younger Thai guys would be cruising I assume (wrongly?) that it would be easier to download an app and cruise online. Why would they bother to walk around a park or any public space trying to meet up or hook up for baht?
Just curious is anyone has thoughts. I currently live in the US and from what I can tell the old cruising spots (public parks, rest stops along expressways) are not very busy as the apps are safer and more efficient.
Most of the boys in Saranrom are straight, they don't know about the gay apps. And many are poor / lo-so, and can't hold onto a mobile phone for long, run out of battery or data, and find making appointments (place and time) too complex.

frequent
August 27th, 2018, 12:07
I'm not absolutely sure whether Frequency was just 'Going Esoteric' on us or that he keeps Google ready to go beside his bedside just in case a smart ass one-liner comes floating out of the blue.
Whatever ... he certainly had me made reaching for it -- Google that is -- regarding Dadaism and found at least one painting there which was filled to the brim with delicious chaos. Kind of like this message board.
You should consider performance artists such as Dame Edna Everage, certainly in her earlier incarnations. Barry Humphries was a keen Dadaist then and is certainly still a dedicated practitioner of the absurd. It’s also possible to make Dadaist posts on discussion forums, perhaps to illustrate the futility of it all

scottish-guy
August 27th, 2018, 15:05
A considerable number of members of this forum are not so much Dada as stark staring Gaga

:drink:

frequent
August 27th, 2018, 15:23
A considerable number of members of this forum are not so much Dada as stark staring GagaSurely you know I don’t post for “the considerable number” - I’m an elitist. I post for the few, not the many. You, Smiles, poshglasgow, Jellybaby, Matt, one or two others - those of us who enjoy the vintage wines of fine dining, not the cheap plonk of those below the salt

scottish-guy
August 27th, 2018, 15:33
But since the secret Mods forum recently sprung its enormous leak, we now know Jellybaby thinks we are part of a conspiracy - so is she a double agent - the Mata Hari of SGT?

:D

frequent
August 27th, 2018, 17:43
But since the secret Mods forum recently sprung its enormous leak, we now know Jellybaby thinks we are part of a conspiracy - so is she a double agent - the Mata Hari of SGT?Jellybaby has given me certain assurances and who am I to doubt his integrity

Blueskytoday
August 27th, 2018, 18:02
Off subject yet again......

scottish-guy
August 27th, 2018, 18:12
Off subject yet again......

How would any off-topic contributions prevent you from adding your insights into the Saranrom Park cruising/pick-up/rentboy scene?

Unless of course you don't have anything to add on the subject and just wish to shout, or crier 'off-topic' from the sidelines ?

frequent
August 27th, 2018, 18:22
I’m sure the Mods will sweep up inapposite posts and transfer them to the Holding Room - they’ve been assiduous recently

Patanawet
August 27th, 2018, 20:39
Silly me. I clicked on here thinking I would see news of Saranrom Park.
Why do I have to read all through here hoping to come across a relevant item .

Nirish guy
August 27th, 2018, 20:57
yep, silly you, why that's like clicking on Fox News and expecting to see.....well, news ! Never gonna happen.....

scottish-guy
August 27th, 2018, 21:07
Silly me. I clicked on here thinking I would see news of Saranrom Park.
Why do I have to read all through here hoping to come across a relevant item .

What caused you to miss the first 20-odd posts which were all highly relevant , plus Christianpfc telling you he has much more information about Saranrom Park on his blog?

kittyboy
August 27th, 2018, 22:41
Not my experiences. I saw boys from all backgrounds. Years ago, I have even met students who spoke okay English. In Saranrom, I found boys from all over Bangkok, as far as Samrong. Which suggests that is no such area elsewhere in Bangkok.


Most of the boys in Saranrom are straight, they don't know about the gay apps. And many are poor / lo-so, and can't hold onto a mobile phone for long, run out of battery or data, and find making appointments (place and time) too complex.

I am guessing that if they are on an app then the app might be discovered on their phone etc.
The straight guys who are in the park - are they only top? only want to get sucked off? etc. Will they bottom?
I am curious how gay for pay are these guys?

I was in Rayong a couple years ago near the navy base and damn..Those navy boys are so cute but I could not figure out a way to hook up.
There must be cruising spots. I am past my cruising age and at this point want to get online and order in..but those navy boys were tempting if I could have found where they went to meet up for fun..or gay for pay.

dab69
August 28th, 2018, 20:14
Not my experiences. I saw boys from all backgrounds. Years ago, I have even met students who spoke okay English. In Saranrom, I found boys from all over Bangkok, as far as Samrong. Which suggests that is no such area elsewhere in Bangkok.


Most of the boys in Saranrom are straight, they don't know about the gay apps. And many are poor / lo-so, and can't hold onto a mobile phone for long, run out of battery or data, and find making appointments (place and time) too complex.

Didn't one chase you with a machete?

scottish-guy
August 28th, 2018, 20:39
Didn't one chase you with a machete?

For Christian that's just a run of the mill event and not worth mentioning

:D

christianpfc
August 28th, 2018, 22:24
The straight guys who are in the park - are they only top? only want to get sucked off? etc. Will they bottom?
I am curious how gay for pay are these guys?

Most of the straight boys were pretty useless in bed. But I got some hot bodies there, even without much response from the boy it was worth the money. Seeing and touching him naked and in underwear, wanking together. Anyway, at 500 THB for the boy and 200 (or 300?) for short time hotel around the corner, I can be much more experimental in in gogo bars.

I had at least two gay bottom boys from there. One was a multiple repeat. I used to pick him up at night, then he would stay with me over night, the following morning I would go to work (that was in 2013 when I was working in Thailand), come back during lunch break to wake him up and take him for lunch (streetfood) and say goodbye. I thought, one day I will have sex in my lunchbreak with him, but in the end never did. A chance that will probably not come again!


Didn't one chase you with a machete?
No. Details are here:
https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?13081-Plenty-of-boys-at-Saran-Rom-Park&p=171725&viewfull=1#post171725

latintopxxx
August 29th, 2018, 03:07
your mistake was showing fear and trying to flee....in my experience the best tactic is to out crazy them by turning very loud aggressive and in your face...works every time.

Nirish guy
August 29th, 2018, 04:08
Now we KNOW you're joking as I'm fairly sure to do that in Thailand is a SURE way of getting a beating by not one by several Thai's, ESPECIALLY in a dodgy dimly lit area such as Saranrom........and whilst your "advice" might be humorous god forbid any newbie who might for a second think of taking it seriously and actually doing that !

Josan
September 5th, 2018, 04:02
There are a number of nice hotels down near Saranrom Park. Has anyone used this area for a holiday? Much to see in this area too and restaurants.....

sglad
September 8th, 2018, 22:40
I was in Rayong a couple years ago near the navy base and damn..Those navy boys are so cute but I could not figure out a way to hook up.

Did you try showing them your pussy?

Nirish guy
September 9th, 2018, 18:04
7965

scottish-guy
September 10th, 2018, 01:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL9KqigbdJw&list=RDJL9KqigbdJw&t=17

latintopxxx
September 10th, 2018, 10:53
oh the best of british...and to think that those ungratefulls living north of hadrians wall want to leave so they can be berlins bitch

scottish-guy
September 10th, 2018, 14:31
So, apart from all the usual Too Wee, Too Poor, Too Stupid jibes, the Scots would be uniquely incapable of making Telly programmes now?

Just as well we invented the fucker isn't it - as well as almost every other damned thing in the modern world.

frequent
September 10th, 2018, 14:35
So, apart from all the usual Too Wee, Too Poor, Too Stupid jibes, the Scots would be uniquely incapable of making Telly programmes now?
Just as well we invented the fucker isn't it - as well as almost every other damned thing in the modern world.Hence the phrase "Not on your telly"?

bkkguy
September 10th, 2018, 20:10
So, apart from all the usual Too Wee, Too Poor, Too Stupid jibes, the Scots would be uniquely incapable of making Telly programmes now?

last I heard they were still game

bkkguy

Nirish guy
September 10th, 2018, 20:12
Are you sure that’s not the pheasant you’re thinking of ? :-)

bkkguy
September 10th, 2018, 20:14
the pheasant plucker or the pheasant plucker's son?

bkkguy

latintopxxx
September 11th, 2018, 01:59
pheasant?! remove the h and I agree

dab69
March 24th, 2021, 01:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10m5A3NztBo

video of old town and Saranrom

Smiles
March 24th, 2021, 10:26
"... for just 4 nights and you're thinking of intending to spend your limited and very valuable time there cruising street trade around Sananrom Park ... " That's why the Thai Defence Department (with binoculars) has planted themselves directly across the road at Sananrom. It's either Myanmar or a Major's easy blowjob.