The art of trolling

I've always assumed the terms "troll" and "trolling" were pejorative words adopted by the politically correct to describe Internet behaviour of which they disapproved. In Internet life, real life activities such as "mocking" become "trolling" and to be condemned because the Internet represents the new world where we're all terribly "nice" to one another

The words are now appearing in the real world without the connotation of disapproval, as in this story (http://thenextweb.com/apple/2015/08/21/swatch-has-trademarked-apples-iconic-one-more-thing-catchphrase-in-an-epic-troll-move/) of Swatch "trolling" Apple

The original meaning of the word troll and the only one truly educated people acknowledge is the classical definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll): "A troll is a supernatural being in Norse mythology and Scandinavian folklore. In origin, troll may have been a negative synonym for a j├╢tunn (plural j├╢tnar). In Old Norse sources, beings described as trolls dwell in isolated rocks, mountains, or caves, live together in small family units, and are rarely helpful to human beings." In real life one of the Board members with whom I have been recently disputatious resembles nothing so much as a troll (see the illustration accompanying the Wikipedia entry). Those who've met him in his not inconsiderable flesh will know who I mean.

[francois]

What term do the truly educated use in lieu of troll/trolling regarding Internet behavior?

[Khor tose]

Shame on you Francois. You should know that the "truly educated" would use a French word. That word is provocateur. However, all trolls are provocateurs, but not all provocateurs are trolls. Without provocateurs to challenge the status quo we would still be in the stone ages.

[francois]

Zut! I thought trolling was to cast out a fishing line and wait for the suckers to take the bait and then reel them in.
Provacateur is so much more elegant and descriptive.

[Rogie]

Often mention of a single word calls to mind an association, so for example the word heinous becomes a heinous crime. Provocateur becomes agent provocateur which is the only phrase I'm familiar with. But I agree, using provocateur on its own has a classy ring to it.

Shame on you Francois. You should know that the "truly educated" would use a French word. That word is provocateur. However, all trolls are provocateurs, but not all provocateurs are trolls. Without provocateurs to challenge the status quo we would still be in the stone ages.
Surely the word "provocateur" is an adjective as in the phrase "agent provocateur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur)"? That phrase actually means "(French for "inciting agent") an undercover agent who acts to entice another person to commit an illegal or rash act or falsely implicate them in partaking in an illegal act." As gay men of a certain age in Anglo-Saxon societies when same-sex activity was illegal we're aware of agents provocateurs, usually policemen who engaged in entrapment, posing as homosexuals in cruising areas so as to catch men soliciting for sex. I'm not sure that that's really a phrase we'd want to encourage on a gay forum (although I do have a 'fake" (in the sense of entirely made up) Facebook persona so I can stalk (sorry, I mean carry out background checks) on lads who may be candidates to become one of Kommie's Boys)

Those who are trying to use "provocateur" as a noun are confusing the behaviour described as "inciting" with "provoking", which is not the same thing - which is why we have two different words in English. "To provoke" is not at all the same action as "to incite".

Someone who is dismissed as a troll may sometimes intend to provoke alternative notions to the ones being proposed as well as to mock the pretensions of others (and their ideas). You couldn't reasonably describe those actions as "incitement". I think francois and khor tose will have to come up with better words than the ones advanced so far

[francois]

I think francois and khor tose will have to come up with better words than the ones advanced so far

Au contraire! I suggest kommentariat come up with better word or words to define troll since he started the topic.

Here is definition from Oxford Dictionary:

noun

Back to top
1A person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.
EXAMPLE SENTENCES
1.1 informal A deliberately offensive or provocative online posting.

verb

[NO OBJECT]
1 informal Make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them:
if people are obviously trolling then IтАЩll delete your posts and do my best to ban you
[WITH OBJECT]: you folks taking this opportunity to troll me, you really need to reassess your values in your life

[Khor tose]

Allow me to add the synonyms for provocateur:

Synonyms
demagogue (also demagog), exciter, firebrand, fomenter, incendiary, inciter, instigator, kindler, agitator, rabble-rouser

It is a noun. My latin books said it's root is from the verb provacare which means to call out or proclaim. They made that verb into the latin noun provocotor which means challenger. I still think this is the perfect word, but I am open to suggestions.

[Nirish guy]

What term do the truly educated use in lieu of troll/trolling regarding Internet behavior?

While not claiming to be truly educated in any way I always think the word "dickhead" suffices when thinking what to call most trolls.

[Smiles]

" ... It is a (fucking) noun(!) My latin books said (so) ... "
Do you really think the sophisticates on this board will fall for such blatant name-dropping (well ... book-dropping I guess in this case).
S'cuse me, I must get back to my "latin books" ... yes, you heard me, my 'books' with an 's', not just 'a' book.

[Khor tose]

Yes, books. I have had three years of Latin and still have the text books, and dictionary after all these years.. Latin was easy for me. What is hard for me is understanding why some wacko Canadian would interject themselves into a conversation that is more then the "ya". However, having met you, I truly understand your need to feel like you have something in this life to contribute, and since you can't compete using your brain. sarcasm really is you best answer. I do find it sad that a man of your age cannot find something positive to say, and thank the "whatever" that I have not turned out to be like you in my old age. Y

My latin books said it's root...
I'm always after a good root

While not claiming to be truly educated in any way ...
You'll get no argument from me on that score

[Nirish guy]

While not claiming to be truly educated in any way ...
You'll get no argument from me on that score

That's a first, thank fuck for small mercies !

[Surfcrest]

Yes, books. I have had three years of Latin and still have the text books, and dictionary after all these years.. Latin was easy for me. What is hard for me is understanding why some wacko Canadian would interject themselves into a conversation that is more then the "ya".
Oh Khor tose, hopefully you yanks won't start another war over it until you've at least started making payments on the last two wars you started.

In case you hadn't noticed, most of your State is on fire right now and if it weren't for some help from Canada...things wouldn't be going so well for you guys.

And while you were studying Latin...are you so academically sure about the differences between then and than?

Lastly, it's "eh" not "ya" you dork lol...we're just a few hours up the highway from you, surely you've been here to know?

Surfcrest

[Smiles]

For Khortose: deep memories from Latin class: "A-cunt-de-ex-in-sinna-pro-sub" B-) ;;)

The first declension I was ever taught was the Latin for table - mensa. The Latin master was known for saying "Now boys - mensas - don't be shy, it's pronounced mens arse. All together now". In these politically correct days I fear he wouldn't get away with it. Latin students will be aware that it's also a feminine gender noun which gave the whole thing a somewhat rococo twist.

[Smiles]

The first declension I was ever taught was the Latin for table - mensa. The Latin master was known for saying "Now boys - mensas - don't be shy, it's pronounced mens arse. All together now". In these politically correct days I fear he wouldn't get away with it. Latin students will be aware that it's also a feminine gender noun which gave the whole thing a somewhat rococo twist.
Obviously the origin of your 'please-sit-on-my-face' fetish ( ... placet sedent super faciem meam ... )

Obviously the origin of your 'please-sit-on-my-face' fetish ( ... placet sedent super faciem meam ... )I couldn't find the fetish you mention in this list (http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/most-popular/10-of-the-most-popular-sexual-fetishes/). Perhaps you could expand on why you regard it as a fetish?

[Smiles]

" ... could expand on why you regard it as a fetish?"
It just popped out of one of my many First Edition latin books.
OK OK ... how about 'overarching inclination' (to have someone sit on your face that is)? Make you feel better?

" ... could expand on why you regard it as a fetish?"It just popped out of one of my many First Edition latin books.The cigar is unearned


fetish (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=fetish) (n.)
"material object regarded with awe as having mysterious powers or being the representative of a deity that may be worshipped through it," 1610s, fatisso, from Portuguese feiti├зo "charm, sorcery, allurement," noun use of an adjective meaning "artificial."

The Portuguese adjective is from Latin facticius "made by art, artificial," from facere "to make, do, produce, etc." (see factitious, and compare French factice "artificial," restored from Old French faitise, from Latin facticius). Via the French word, Middle English had fetis, fetice (adj.) "cleverly made, neat, elegant" (of things), "handsome, pretty, neat" (of persons). But in the Middle Ages the Romanic derivatives of the word took on magical senses; compare Portuguese feiticeria "sorcery, witchcraft," feiticeiro "sorcerer, wizard." Latin facticius in Spanish has become hechizo "artificial, imitated," also "bewitchment, fascination."

The specific Portuguese use of the word that brought it to English probably began among Portuguese sailors and traders who used the word as a name for charms and talismans worshipped by the inhabitants of the Guinea coast of Africa. It was picked up and popularized in anthropology by Charles de Brosses' "Du culte des dieux f├йtiches" (1760), which influenced the word's spelling in English (French f├йtiche also is borrowed 18c. from the Portuguese word).
Any material image of a religious idea is an idol; a material object in which force is supposed to be concentrated is a Fetish; a material object, or a class of material objects, plants, or animals, which is regarded by man with superstitious respect, and between whom and man there is supposed to exist an invisible but effective force, is a Totem. [J. Fitzgerald Lee, "The Greater Exodus," London, 1903]
Figurative sense of "something irrationally revered, object of blind devotion" appears to be an extension made by the New England Transcendentalists (1837). For sexual sense (1897), see fetishism.

I am as always ready to be worshiped as a deity if that is your inclination, Smiles

[Smiles]

fetish (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=fetish) (n.)
"... material object regarded with awe as having mysterious powers or being the representative of a deity that may be worshipped ... "
You can stuff your fucking cigar. And we know where you are most inclined to put it. :-*

On the contrary, I think the quote above is quite perfect: the '(awesome) material object ... to be worshipped' (colendos esse censebunt) is a Thai Guy's round-as-an-apple bubble butt/ass, and the 'mysterious power' makes the fetish (i.e. of sitting on it) ... the Thai Guy's ass that is.
But do carry on ...