WORKING WITH THAIS

[marti]

Do any of you work in Thailand with Thai people?

This is a very difficult thing to do if you are used to working in another culture. Unless they are a carpenter, mechanic or other skilled person then Thais have no ability to understand how to do anything which requires use of mechanical devices such as pliers etc. I am sure if you have never worked with Thais then you find this difficult to believe. Speaking from experience, I can say that it is very frustrating because you must take so much time in such efforts that you will find yourself just doing it yourself. The same is true of driving. I am sure that somewhere along the way someone destroyed all of the geometry books. Have you every watched the average Thai driver trying to park a vehicle. Absolutely no understanding of angles. Parallel parking is a real joke because they will try over and over to drive forward into a space rather than backing into it. The forward maneuver is simply not possible but they just can't see this.

I have always wondered why they talk so much about everything they speak about but I am sure you have noticed that they do this. Any simple conversation which would take any Westerner a maximum of 15 seconds will take Thais much longer. The reason for this was explained to me by a Thai friend who has lived much of his life in another country. He explains it very simply: Thai people do not have the ability to "fill in the blanks." Thais must talk on and on because nothing can be left to the imagination of the other person. As incredible as this sounds it does explain how long they talk to one another.

It has been a really tough day.

[scottish-guy]

...It has been a really tough day.

Nothing like a bit of casual racism to help you get over it, is there?

[bucknaway]

I've read several blog posts on stickman that voice the frustration many farang have when working with Thai people and I can only imagine how much stress and frustration the Thai feel.

[Manforallseasons]

Why did you decide to work at 7/11 ?

[goji]

All of the things like parking & driving skill are down to training.

For example, compare Japan where they can consistently park cars in the smallest spaces accessed by a dog leg entrance, with China, where the drivers frequently cannot reverse a car into a space that's sufficient for 2 vehicles. This isn't down to ethnic differences, or even culture. It's due to the fact that the Japanese have a difficult driving test and get trained properly, whereas in China, people who can barely control a car can get a license.

I'm pretty sure the same applies to various other skillsets where there is a discrepancy.

[marti]

Why did you decide to work at 7/11 ?
Your success as a stock boy there inspired me.

[marti]

Nothing like a bit of casual racism to help you get over it, is there?
Do people from scotland comprise a race. I would guess, in your case, a race to the bottom of the barrel.

[christianpfc]

My experiences are here:

Hiring a Thai Employee post258957.html (http://sawatdeenetwork.com/forum/post258957.html)

[latintopxxx]

Hello...its their fucking country so they can set the rules...nobody has held a gun to your head and forced you to work in Thailand...if u dont like it fuck off.

[oldfarang]

Problem with low(er) jobs suited for the general average Thai, is that we Westerners expect too much from them, according to our standards and work ethics.

It will take a lot of personal training, probably in Thai (unless you can find and excellent English speaking Thai, but will probably already have a good job).

Don't blame the lads and girls, the education system in Thailand is setup NOT to think for yourself. Do NOT ask the teacher questions, just repeat all he/she teaches.

Then ambition to grow, means hard work and positive attitude. When a (sorry for these words) lower class Thai has enough money to eat, drink and pay the room, well time to get lazy, no ambition to grow.

Try and find a Chinese Thai with Chinese attitude/values, much better staff.

[BonTong]

When I first came to Thailand I was horrified by the stories I heard from Thai friends about their working conditions, particularly those working for larger Thai-Chinese owned businesses. e.g. fined for being minute late, having to pay a deposit (to the employer) if handling cash, pay witheld for a variety of reasons, sacked for almost nothing.... the list goes on. By western standards many of the working practices here would be illegal.

After a few years of employing Thai staff I realized that those techniques are essential if you want actually to get any work done; I found this realization even more shocking!

Most frustrating is the "yes" syndrome, seemingly related to the "face" concept. As in, "what colour is that?" answer: yes! You try to explain a task in the simplest possible way, but the only feedback you get is "yes". "Are you sure you understand?", "yes". "Can you do it?", Yes. "Will you have any problems?" "Yes". #-o Sometime later you ask if the task is finished, "yes". So you check and they haven't even started. "why haven't you done anything yet?" you got it - "yes". Then "after lunch", or "but it might rain", or some similar excuse. Grrrrhhhh. It requires a serious amount of tolerance and patience.

Some basic concepts are missing from the education system regarding thought processes and problem solving. Often referred to as "Thai Logic" or rather lack of any logic. A Thai once picked up a spirit level and asked me what it was. With some difficulty I managed to explain, which the Thai then found fascinating and sat playing with it for five minutes. Then after some thought he asks: "Why do you want to make things horizontal or vertical?"

Or try asking some Thais to read a map @-)

One tool I found useful in explaining things was Google Image Search. Visualization seems to work better than explanation. e.g "screw", "Screwdriver", "screwing into walls".

It's not about race. There are plenty of imaginative, smart and intelligent Thai people. It's about education, concepts, and cultural upbringing. If you look at business here, the successful mainstream businesses are mainly those that rely on automatons for staff. Employees are relatively cheap so job functions are broken down into smaller functions employing several people to do what westerners might consider one job.

Worse still, if you employ gay Thai's, sooner or later that queeny strop will emerge.

[scottish-guy]

Nothing like a bit of casual racism to help you get over it, is there?
Do people from scotland comprise a race. I would guess, in your case, a race to the bottom of the barrel.

That ignorant response makes my point for me.

I guess it's good to know it's not just the Thais you like to denigrate.

Which other groups do you despise - Blacks or Jews maybe?

[PeterUK]

Or try asking some Thais to read a map @-)


Or a book! Try asking some Thais what shape a book is, a circle or a triangle. Bet they wouldn't even know which.

..if u dont like it fuck off.
The mating call of the Greater Crested Chauvinist the world over

[marti]

Hello...its their fucking country so they can set the rules...nobody has held a gun to your head and forced you to work in Thailand...if u dont like it fuck off.
"Rules". Who said anything about rules. You fall into the same barrel as the scott. Not overly sharp.

[marti]

All of the things like parking & driving skill are down to training.

For example, compare Japan where they can consistently park cars in the smallest spaces accessed by a dog leg entrance, with China, where the drivers frequently cannot reverse a car into a space that's sufficient for 2 vehicles. This isn't down to ethnic differences, or even culture. It's due to the fact that the Japanese have a difficult driving test and get trained properly, whereas in China, people who can barely control a car can get a license.

I'm pretty sure the same applies to various other skillsets where there is a discrepancy.
I completely agree with your statement.

[marti]

Problem with low(er) jobs suited for the general average Thai, is that we Westerners expect too much from them, according to our standards and work ethics.

It will take a lot of personal training, probably in Thai (unless you can find and excellent English speaking Thai, but will probably already have a good job).

Don't blame the lads and girls, the education system in Thailand is setup NOT to think for yourself. Do NOT ask the teacher questions, just repeat all he/she teaches.

Then ambition to grow, means hard work and positive attitude. When a (sorry for these words) lower class Thai has enough money to eat, drink and pay the room, well time to get lazy, no ambition to grow.

Try and find a Chinese Thai with Chinese attitude/values, much better staff.
My agreement with what you say. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for our company to hire non-Thais.

[scottish-guy]

Hello...its their fucking country so they can set the rules...nobody has held a gun to your head and forced you to work in Thailand...if u dont like it fuck off.
"Rules". Who said anything about rules. You fall into the same barrel as the scott. Not overly sharp.

The fact that someone who continually professes to be of superior intelligence is apparently ignorant that a native of Scotland is a "Scot" rather than a "scott", tells us all we need to know about his actual level of education.

[christianpfc]

I have always wondered why they talk so much about everything they speak about but I am sure you have noticed that they do this. Any simple conversation which would take any Westerner a maximum of 15 seconds will take Thais much longer. The reason for this was explained to me by a Thai friend who has lived much of his life in another country. He explains it very simply: Thai people do not have the ability to "fill in the blanks." Thais must talk on and on because nothing can be left to the imagination of the other person. As incredible as this sounds it does explain how long they talk to one another.

Indeed, when I ask a boy "Do you have gayrome/line?" (implying: "What is your profile name / ID"), I get answer yes/no. In case of yes, I then ask "What is your profile name / ID?"

On the other hand, what we call "Erawan shrine" is р╕ир╕▓р╕ер╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕� �р╕гр╕лр╕бр╣Ар╕нр╕гр╕� �р╕зр╕▒р╕У in Thai, which means "Shrine (for) god Brahma (located at) Erawan (hotel)".

The fact that someone who continually professes to be of superior intelligence is apparently ignorant that a native of Scotland is a "Scot" rather than a "scott", tells us all we need to know about his actual level of education.
Do keep up, Scotty. He's an American! What else can you expect

[Sen Yai]

On the other hand, what we call "Erawan shrine" is р╕ир╕▓р╕ер╕Юр╕гр╕░р╕� �р╕гр╕лр╕бр╣Ар╕нр╕гр╕� �р╕зр╕▒р╕У in Thai, which means "Shrine (for) god Brahma (located at) Erawan (hotel)".

Yes christian, but what does Erawan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airavata) mean?

[MARK]

Hello...its their fucking country so they can set the rules...nobody has held a gun to your head and forced you to work in Thailand...if u dont like it fuck off.




Latintopxxx Think it must be a first, so agree with you. =))

[latintopxxx]

thanks...my point is that I love visiting thailand because of combination of factors, will not lie and pretend that excellent value for money dumb and full of cum " boys" does not play a big role but I can get equally cheap arse elsewhere....its that Thailand factor...and now some twisted twit wants to turn the place into singapore....where a beer is like 8 euro...I shudder to think what arse would cost?!

[thaiguest]

On this forum, on Thai Visa forum and other sites we falangs bash Thais cos we know them so well.
Who's to say that other Asians are perhaps worse to deal with?
I've heard that when Korean Air was forced to take on foreign english speaking co-pilots these pilots were treated like dog turd by the Korean cockpit staff who think it was and still is ok to land planes in the US without understanding control tower instructions.

Who's to say that other Asians are perhaps worse to deal with?
I've heard that when Korean Air was forced to take on foreign english speaking co-pilots these pilots were treated like dog turd by the Korean cockpit staff who think it was and still is ok to land planes in the US without understanding control tower instructions.
A friend of mine who does a lot of IT project management around Asia says that in Singapore the Malays are great, the Chinese useless while in Malaysia it's the other way round. She believes it's something to do with minorities having to try harder/be smarter to survive.

[marti]

The fact that someone who continually professes to be of superior intelligence is apparently ignorant that a native of Scotland is a "Scot" rather than a "scott", tells us all we need to know about his actual level of education.
Do keep up, Scotty. He's an American! What else can you expect
You can only expect the truth and that is the fact that, while Americans are not the most intelligent people on earth, we are not as stupid as people from scotland

[Sen Yai]

A friend of mine who does a lot of IT project management around Asia says that in Singapore the Malays are great, the Chinese useless while in Malaysia it's the other way round. She believes it's something to do with minorities having to try harder/be smarter to survive.

I can corroborate your friend's observations and concur with her theory. But I think the Singaporean Malays feel fortunate to have been born south of the causeway since the contrast in living standards in JB are stark.

[scottish-guy]

... the fact that, while Americans are not the most intelligent people on earth, we are not as stupid as people from scotland

Using your conflation of opinion with fact - I might equally say that if you left whichever country you currently reside in, the national intelligence level would be immediately improved.

[francois]

.... while Americans are not the most intelligent people on earth, we are not as stupid as people from scotland

Not so sure about that Marti. All depends on what you mean by most intelligent people

One survey shows that there are more intelligent people in USA than elsewhere in the world closely followed by Japan.


http://www.richestlifestyle.com/most-in ... the-world/ (http://www.richestlifestyle.com/most-intelligent-countries-in-the-world/)

The most educated country appears to be Canada followed by Japan.

http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/wor ... -world/10/ (http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/world/great-grades-the-10-best-educated-countries-in-the-world/10/)

[latintopxxx]

oh Lord, how tiresome these posts become....like soooo off topic....and ofcourse americans are the brightest bulb in the chandelier...biggest ecomony...biggest army...biggest fortune 500 companies...like hello...

[Smiles]

" ... The most educated country appears to be Canada ... "
. . . as suspected.

[oldfarang]

Problem with low(er) jobs suited for the general average Thai, is that we Westerners expect too much from them, according to our standards and work ethics.

It will take a lot of personal training, probably in Thai (unless you can find and excellent English speaking Thai, but will probably already have a good job).

Don't blame the lads and girls, the education system in Thailand is setup NOT to think for yourself. Do NOT ask the teacher questions, just repeat all he/she teaches.

Then ambition to grow, means hard work and positive attitude. When a (sorry for these words) lower class Thai has enough money to eat, drink and pay the room, well time to get lazy, no ambition to grow.

Try and find a Chinese Thai with Chinese attitude/values, much better staff.
My agreement with what you say. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for our company to hire non-Thais.

Marti, I actually referred to Thais from originally Chinese decent, generations ago. They are Thai nationals.
But unfortunately within the originally Chinese family values (even after generations living in Thailand), they get pushed to study and learn and get the better jobs even within the Thai education system.

Unfortunately, it is very difficult for our company to hire non-Thais.Your company should have thought of that when deciding to do business in Thailand - it's known as "due diligence"

[firecat69]

[
My agreement with what you say. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for our company to hire non-Thais.


As well it should be. If you want to hire non thais then go to that country to make your money. Your comparison of parking cars is equally ridiculous. Japan has been a Major Economy for many years and making cars for many years. A large % of the population owns cars .

China is a Communist Country where 99% of the population never even dreamed of owning a car until the Communists started to allow some capitalism into their economy.

Check back in 30 years and those new purchasers of cars in China will probably be much better drivers. I wonder how all those poorly trained Chinese citizens are able to build great buildings, airports ,trains etc and by the way put on the Best Olympic Opening Show in history..

And don't take my admiration of their building abilities to mean that I don't hate their Government. But making fun of the Chinese is just more of your racist and jingoistic posts.

[arsenal]

Firecat: A few points.
China is a communist country really in name only. Indeed in many ways it is more capitalist than The US and considerably more so than EU countries.
As for their driving, well it's not down to training but rather mentality. The Chinese driving test is in 4 parts and takes months to complete. That doesn't stop them driving like they are the only vehicle on the road. As drivers they don't see what westerners see. They don't drive with any peripheral vision, the only thing that concerns them is what's directly ahead. This system works OK in China but will cause accidents in almost every other country.
The building. OK, so the big eye-catching international projects are high quality and use the best materials. But the nuts and bolts stuff such as roads, pavements, fences etc are extremely slipshod and show signs of wear and tear within a few months of completion.
The Beijing Olympics opening ceremony was indeed spectacular but it was done with quite a bit of smoke and mirrors. The girl filmed singing was not the one we heard and the amazing fireworks were tremendously enhanced with CGI. This also doesn't take into account the shocking behaviour of the Olympic torch carriers.

[firecat69]

Well the political prisoners in jail might disagree with you. They are definitely a Communist Government that allows capitalism in order to improve the economy. But anyone who thinks that the government would not hesitate to have another Tiananmen Square if needed is wearing Rose Colored Glasses..

The question of course would they get away with it. Unfortunately your description of slipshod work etc sounds to much like the Joke airports,bridges and roads in my USA home.

Japan has been a Major Economy for many years and making cars for many years.An interesting fact http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/20 ... americans/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/11/01/japanese-branded-cars-increasingly-made-in-america-by-americans/)

Many of the rest seem to manufactured in ... um, oh ... that would be Thailand (http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2013/04/thailands-booming-car-industry)

[arsenal]

Kommentariat: The Chinese government is Authoritarian though not Totalitarian in the way that say, North Korea is. But they have embraced Mammon and capitalism with complete gusto. Private property is no longer considered theft and individual citizens can own land.
As for another Tiannanmen. Very unlikely to be honest. The powers know that every move they make is scrutinised all over the world. However in my opinion they are quite literally gearing up for war.

Kommentariat: The Chinese ...
To which post of mine do you imagine you're responding to??

[firecat69]

Actually I think he meant to reply to me. The Tibetan Monks might disagree with your characterization as not Totalitarian and of course they are not the only country where China tries to inhibit Religious Freedom.

It could not be any more simple. Of course they are Totalitarian and parsing words as if there is much difference between Totalitarian and Authoritarian does not make much sense to me. They take what they want and they throw dissenters in jail.

They are still Communist China and all the economic activity cannot hide the fact that there are no real elections and all decisions are made by a very few powerful people at the top of the Communist Party.

The Nationals Peoples Congress determines everything even up to and including whether married couples are allowed to have children and how many.

[arsenal]

Kommentariat: Firecat is correct, I misread the name. Pretty slipshod of me don't you think?

Firecat: When I say Totalitarian I mean exactly that. For example there is virtually complete and free access to the BBC website, citizens do not need a visa to leave China. One can choose between fee paying schools and hospitals or state run ones. No one is claiming that Chine even makes a passing nod to democracy. But it will be at least a century (if ever) before the population will be able to handle a genuinely democratic process. Because at the moment they can't even handle getting on a plane.

[loke]

Thai thinks in groups and can not take decisions on their own , thats my experience too. So in farang/thai relationships you'll often hear "up to you" , try to ask him/her to make a decision can be difficult. So he call his friends and ask for advice.... and change his mind and it goes and on and on. ... I have been there.

[Dodger]

I've always found it interesting that Thai Nationals of pure Thai ancestry are masters, at what I refer to as the "soft skills", e.g., politeness, non-confrontational, peaceful, soft mannerisms and carry themselves with a sense of grace, where things like "saving face" and being perceived as being jai dee, are of utmost importance, whereas the Thai Chinese (those with Chinese ancestry), are masters of the "hard skills, and focused exclusively on making money at-all-costs regardless of how they are perceived by others. The majority (from what I've observed) have no regard whatsoever for displaying "soft skills" and take no prisoners when it comes to making money, regardless of how they are perceived by others.

Thailand is home to the largest overseas Chinese community in the world and is reportedly the oldest, most prominent, and best integrated overseas Chinese community. The Thai Chinese have been deeply ingrained into all elements of Thai society and play a leading role in the Thai business and commerce sector, as well as dominate the Thai political scene with most of Thai Prime Ministers being at least of partial Chinese origin. In general terms, the Thai Chinese control the money and political power in Thailand, and the true Thai Nationals are the worker-bees.

Personally, I wouldn't hire a Thai Chinese to work for me if I were operating a business in Thailand for the mere fact that I don't like their personalities or the hard skills they have mastered. I would have to settle for making less money by employing true Thais with those soft skills. I hired a crew of Thais to help with the renovations of a condo I purchased and it was a real learning curve for me. They had to be managed every step of the way, were late arriving for work in the mornings, and sometimes lacked the skills that I've become used to in the West, but all things said, I was glad to have them. They were wonderful people, we became friends through this process, and when the job was finally complete I was very pleased. I'm still not quite sure if I was managing them or they were managing me, but It was a great experience working with jai dee people.

I would also like to add, that anyone who thinks that China is anything but "Communist" has to be living in a different epoch.

[arsenal]

Dodger. Thank you for your many sweeping statements about the whole population of Thailand. Very enlightening I'm sure. Perhaps anyone who doesn't believe that China is Communist isn't living in another epoch but perhaps in another country, such as China for example. You are confusing politics with economics and of course, while not mutually exclusive they aren't the same thing at all.
China could best be described as Authoritarian Capitalism and this is a political model that has served many countries very well over the centuries. Indeed it's probably the best model for a society if the country wants to build themselves an empire.

[Dodger]

arsenel wrote:


China could best be described as Authoritarian Capitalism and this is a political model that has served many countries very well over the centuries. Indeed it's probably the best model for a society if the country wants to build themselves an empire.

Gee, I guess you're right. Genghis Khan and Adolph Hilter had visions of similar economic models during their quests to build empires and just look at the great accomplishments they made.

A farang in China, who enjoys almost the same amount of freedom he has back in his own home country, has absolutely no idea what it's like to live without those basic freedoms. Only the Chinese people themselves know, but would never mention a peep of it for fear of being killed or imprisoned. That's what China's political model is all about. As far as their economic model is concerned, it's focused on mass copy write infringement and the flooding of global markets with cheap products to fuel their military. The Chinese communist leaders control and manipulate every aspect of its economy - and the two are not separate by-no-means as you suggest.

[cdnmatt]

Some people seem to forget this is a predominantly Buddhist society. Naturally, their value systems are completely different than ours. Not in a bad way, just different.

They could care less about doing the best job they can, making lots of money, and bettering their lives. They think that's insane, and a complete waste of an otherwise perfectly good life. They simply want enough for sustinence -- nothing more, nothing less. Once they have that, they're completely content and expend the rest of their energy on their family, kids, friends, community, and just enjoying life while being at peace with themselves and the world. They could care less about "be all you can be" type of stuff.

Whereas in the West it's, we're all our own individual unique snowflake, and we're all so creative, passitonate, and ambitious that we can do anything we put our mind too. We push ourselves to the limit, but many other facets of our life are left in the dust. We stretch ourselves so much that many in the West even do things like spend 100s/month on yoga lessons, with hopes of finding the smallest amount of inner peace within themselves. Not saying either way of life is good or bad, but just different. And if you're going to hire Thais, you need to go in realizing the differences.

But yeah, would be nice to see at least basic education improved a little. One small example just happened. Went to my standard local mom & pop shop, and bought 6 cans of beer. Usually I only buy 4, and both myself and the owners know that's 140 baht. No calculator needed, we already know. However, this time I got 6, and with my brilliant mind was able to deduce if 4 = 140 baht, then 6 would be 210 baht. Was pretty difficult, but managed to do it all in my head. The owner on the other hand, about the same age as me, mid 30s, was adamant it was only 200 baht. I kept telling him it was 210, so off he goes to get his trusty calculator, and returns about 60 seconds later with it in hand, "oh yeah, it is 210 baht". Hmmm....

[firecat69]

The sad thing is your example of 6 cans vs 4 cans can be repeated in many countries including my USA home in certain communities. Those of us from the USA sometimes forget that the education system is not equal in all states or cities. Usually this is because many of us in fact got a good education and we have a hard time fathoming that what comes easy to us is not so easy for many of our fellow citizens.

Then we take those feeling to places where we are visitors and expect things to be the same and are slow to learn things are not the same . Sometimes not so good and sometimes maybe even better.

Probably would help that if foreigners come to Thailand and run companies with Thais as employees , that they receive intensive training on the History of Thailand and the beliefs that Buddhism instill in their citizens. Unfortunately that probably does not happen in many cases and thus you end up with judgmental managers such as certain posters in this thread.

[arsenal]

Dodger: Are you getting a little out of your depth here? For a start freedom is an abstract idea that means different things to different people.
Next. I did not claim the politics and economy are separate. they are of course inextricably linked in China as they are in every other country in the world. Vast parts of the American economy are controlled by the government such as the arms industry, the aeronautical industry, labour laws and the banking system.
It is perfectly possible to have capitalism without liberal democracy (which is what they have in China) but it is impossible to have liberal democracy without capitalism. By the way, Genghis Khan built the largest land empire the world has ever seen so his business model worked quite well.
The economy is built upon mass consumerism. It has been phenomenally successful over the last twenty years however you have to look at where they started from. Massive year on year growth was inevitable but it's all starting to look a little shaky at the moment.
For what it's worth I think that history will show the Obama administration to be the beginning of the end for American domination with China becoming more influential by the month. And I do not celebrate this. Quite the opposite. As I have said before. This is a country that's gearing up for war.

[Dodger]

arsenal wrote:


For what it's worth I think that history will show the Obama administration to be the beginning of the end for American domination with China becoming more influential by the month.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. The shifting of world powers is both inevitable and evolutionary, and thinking that the U.S. started losing dominance to China (or any other country) during the Obama administration is only off by a few hundred years. What HAS happened during the Obama administration is that the economy and U.S. Dollar have got strong, at the same time (ironically) that the Chinese Yuan is being devalued and their economy is on the blink of a possible collapse.

Some people seem to forget this is a predominantly Buddhist society. Naturally, their value systems are completely different than ours.And to what do you attribute the equally indolent behaviour of the (Muslim) Malays next door in peninsular Malaysia? Japan has a population that's 50% Buddhist. Is it the non-Buddhist half that's made that country what it is today?

For a more informed contribution to the firecat/arsenal/Dodger discussion try http://qz.com/486476/everything-youve-h ... -is-wrong/ (http://qz.com/486476/everything-youve-heard-about-chinas-stock-market-crash-is-wrong/)

[arsenal]

Dodger: When you say I was off by a few hundred years I'm not sure if you're talking about the past or future. America has never been dominant in China. It was the European powers who took chunks out along with Japan.
What I'm talking about is being the dominant power in world politics and in that respect I think the 21st century will belong to China. I also think Obama has recognised this and that is why he is making such efforts to forge new relationships with countries America has considered mortal enemies for over 40 years such as Cuba and Iran.

[cdnmatt]

And to what do you attribute the equally indolent behaviour of the (Muslim) Malays next door in peninsular Malaysia? Japan has a population that's 50% Buddhist. Is it the non-Buddhist half that's made that country what it is today?

No idea on Japan. Never been. As for Malays, I would say Allah has quite a bit to do with it. Who knows, maybe Malays are just genetically retarded, because ethnic Malays are generally just simply stupid. I'm sorry, but they are. The only reason that country continues to humm along is the Chinese.

Thais aren't generally dumb like that though. They do have critical thinking ability, and are capable of learning if they want to. They just don't care to.

No idea ...If you'd left it at those first two words you'd have summed up your entire contribution to this topic.