Physics marches inexorably backwards...

[Smiles]

The Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland has been restarted after a two year rest for some serious renovations. ( http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technolo ... e23799528/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/worlds-biggest-particle-accelerator-starts-up-after-2-year-shutdown/article23799528/) ).
"After a rest" indeed .... the last problem it solved was the proof of the existence of the fundamental particle called the Higgs Boson, an ongoing search for a number of decades.

The latest 'rest' has apparently upped the creatable energy level by twice that before the tinkering, which conceivably puts it at the level of energy which existed just fractions of a second after the big bang.
Things to look for: possiblly a solid confirmation ~ or at least understanding ~ of String Theory (or the opposite ... a discarding of the theory all together). A discovery of even smaller and more fundamental particles. Hopefully a greater understanding of Dark Matter.

I love this stuff and I enjoy very much reading about it, although I do so in layman's writings .... a physicists written word makes me crazy.

[LoveThailand]

Why do I always read it as "Hardon"?

[Smiles]

Why do I always read it as "Hardon"?

:)) It's in code. Dozens and dozens of highly educated, but horny, physicists in white coats with engorged and raging hadrons running up and down CERN's immensely long hallways. Dashing into toilets.

(LonelyWombat pops his hadron in here at this point, appalled that a serious and scholarly topic has, once again, turned sexual).

[Surfcrest]

As the Universe continues to expand and accelerate from the Big Bang, there is still an incredible amount we don't know about what we can't see out in Space or what we assumed for so long to be nothing. Similarly so, how Galaxy's form and the shapes that they take on may have more to do with dark matter and the possible properties and laws of physics that affects how it interacts with matter.

Thank goodness for Prof Brian Cox!

Surfcrest

[francois]

I love this stuff and I enjoy very much reading about it, although I do so in layman's writings .... a physicists written word makes me crazy.

Wish I could answer all these cosmological questions but I studied under Professor Newton and have not keep pace with modern developments. Bah hum bug to String Theory.

[francois]

Thank goodness for Prof Brian Cox!
Surfcrest

Phooey on Brian Cox. He has claimed/proclaimed that intelligent life is unique only to Earth and nowhere else in the Universe.

Phooey on Brian Cox. He has claimed/proclaimed that intelligent life is unique only to Earth and nowhere else in the Universe.He has neither claimed nor proclaimed. He has argued and given the reasons for his argument. That is what scientists do. However there was a major blooper in his most recent series. He put forward the standard argument about Easter Island being a warning to us all to look after our environment lest we follow the same path.

Pretty much the same week BBC Four broadcast a programme by archaeologist Dr Jago Cooper in which he showed fairly conclusively that not only is the ecological disaster scenario improbable on the grounds solely of logic, but the most likely reason for the destruction of Rapa Nui culture on Easter Island came about through contact with sailors from the first European ship to reach the island. Those sailors brought a disease - probably something as simple as the flu - for which the inhabitants of Easter Island had no resistance. As a result half the population died and the remainder lost faith in their gods to protect them (hence the toppling of the statues).

Jago Cooper 1, Brian Cox 0

[Smiles]

" ... I studied under Professor Newton and have not keep pace ... "
And still chasing Thai guys all over the floor of Eros Bar (and environs), otherwise known as Chaos Theory.
Issac taught you well.

[francois]

And still chasing Thai guys all over the floor of Eros Bar (and environs), otherwise known as Chaos Theory.
Issac taught you well.

Chaos Theory taught and learned at Kaos Go-Go in Sunee Plaza a place frequented by Issac and myself. Alas the Professor died a virgin although, in his own words, confessed at age 19 yo of ""having uncleane thoughts words and actions and dreamese."

[francois]

Phooey on Brian Cox. He has claimed/proclaimed that intelligent life is unique only to Earth and nowhere else in the Universe.

He has neither claimed nor proclaimed. He has argued and given the reasons for his argument. .


I was somewhat inaccurate in what I posted above. It seems that Prof. Cox's comments were limited to our Galaxy and not the entire Universe.

Here is the text of what was published in The Daily Mail however accurate the reporting may or may not be:

The biological process which lead to intelligent life on earth was a fluke that is unlikely to have been repeated anywhere else in the universe, claims Professor Brian Cox.
The presenter and scientist blames a series of 'evolutionary bottlenecks' for the lack of extraterrestrial life on other planets, despite there being a mind-bogglingly vast number of them in the galaxy.
Humanity miraculously overcame them in a chance binding of two single cells merging somewhere in the mists of time, he said.
'There is only one advanced technological civilisation in this galaxy and there has only ever been one - and that's us. We are unique.
'It's a dizzying thought. There are billions of planets out there, surely there must have been a second genesis?
'But we must be careful because the story of life on this planet shows that the transition from single-celled life to complex life may not have been inevitable.'
He made the claims in an episode of BBC's Human Universe, adding that yet another freak occurrence - the meteor which wiped out the dinosaurs - allowed mammals and ultimately humanity to dominate the planet.
On the subject of the genesis of complex life, he added: 'We still struggle to understand how this happened. It's incredibly unusual.
'We're confident this only happened once in the oceans of the primordial earth.Life here did squeeze through.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z3WqRoMhke (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2809183/We-universe-Professor-Brian-Cox-says-alien-life-impossible-humanity-unique.html#ixzz3WqRoMhke)
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Surfcrest]

Life on Earth was like a remote lottery win...a stack of coincidences upon coincidences upon coincidences that is and was highly unlikely to repeat itself within the possibilities of another lottery win. In the almost infinite space of the Universe, within the 13.8 Billion years from the Big Bang there is the remote possibility...that it "stacked all up again" somewhere else...but it is highly unlikely that it happened within traveling distance of Earth...limits, governed by the laws of physics.

Perhaps that God we pray to when we kiss the dice and roll them down the table is far more a likely reality than UFO's.

Surfcrest

[scottish-guy]

This isn't the kind of discussion about Cox that our members are used to.

[francois]

Oh, are you thinking of Brian Cox, the Scottish actor? ;) This Brian starred in a movie, L.I.E. where he did enjoy some younger Cocks.

[francois]

Life on Earth was like a remote lottery win......but it is highly unlikely that it happened within traveling distance of Earth...limits, governed by the laws of physics.

Perhaps that God we pray to when we kiss the dice and roll them down the table is far more a likely reality than UFO's.
Surfcrest

The laws of physics/chemistry are immutable throughout the Galaxy and likely the Universe although they may have evolved over time. The process whereby our Sun was formed has been repeated billions of times in other stars as were the formation of elements which then are combined into molecules. The same process that created the planets in our solar systems is the same process that created planets around other stars. Given the right mix of ingredients the beginning and evolution of life on other planets would seem inevitable, at least to me. Just what triggered the first life forms may have been the hand of God, a bolt of lightning, a belching volcano, a meteor strike or something else. To think that we are unique here on Earth is short sighted in my view.

But true, highly unlikely that there is anything other than primitive life forms within 50 light years of earth based on known observation of planets around nearby stars.

On the other hand, just where are those UFOs from ? :p

[Surfcrest]

On the other hand, just where are those UFOs from ? :p
From where all things come from, our minds...lol


The laws of physics/chemistry are immutable throughout the Galaxy and likely the Universe although they may have evolved over time. The process whereby our Sun was formed has been repeated billions of times in other stars as were the formation of elements which then are combined into molecules. The same process that created the planets in our solar systems is the same process that created planets around other stars. Given the right mix of ingredients the beginning and evolution of life on other planets would seem inevitable, at least to me. Just what triggered the first life forms may have been the hand of God, a bolt of lightning, a belching volcano, a meteor strike or something else. To think that we are unique here on Earth is short sighted in my view.

There are only 118 elements in the periodic table and this applies to everywhere within the Universe, otherwise known as everywhere. The (known) laws of physics are also the same everywhere and this allows us to make conclusions about matter farther than we could ever travel in our lifetime, based on traveling at maximum speed (the speed of light) which of course we haven't figured out how to do yet. Perhaps there are secrets within what we don't know yet about dark matter that will change all of this, or perhaps not.

While the process of whereby our Sun was formed has indeed been repeated many times since it began with the first star, the process has indeed evolved with new generations of stars being created with more material from past dead stars. And even though the process that created planets around other stars is the same, the results from Star to Star (that we can see) vary greatly. The size and types of different Stars, the chemical make-up of Stars and Planets, gravity and evolution, or circumstance has created differences...like two snow flakes that can never be exactly the same.

The uniqueness of Earth is in the history we know of our Planet from the clues left behind and visible today. If even one of the coincidences upon coincidences upon coincidences didn't happen we humans would not be here today. One of the most obvious, is our Planet's history with collisions. Something could slam into us at any moment and end it all for us instantly. That might sound horrible, but if the earth hadn't suffered even one of the many specific coincidental collisions it's suffered over time...we probably wouldn't be here. Our moon was the result of one of those early collisions and without it, what would our rotation around the Sun be like? We all know the last big collision off the Yucatan Peninsula ended it for the dinosaurs and a great deal of whatever life existed above ground, clearing the way for us underground dwelling mammals to replace the reptiles as the dominant species. The process happened again before that, wiping out large percentages of whatever life existed before and clearing the way for new future life forms, evolution and the law of natural selection. Water may exist as a result of comet collisions or the possibility that our original orbit was much farther out from the sun where ice exists. And lucky for us we have Jupiter, who's gravitational pull has kept us relatively safe from a lot more collisions for these past 65 million years.

Who knows if there is life or intelligent life out there besides our own. Perhaps intelligent life is the natural flow of evolution for all life and like the Periodic Table and the Laws of Physics, that too is the same from one corner of the Universe to the other. We probably don't even know enough about the history of humans and this Planet to know the road map well enough to duplicate the same circumstances and coincidences again somewhere else. We do know what we need as a species to survive and what had to happen first in our world for all of this to be possible for us today.

Surfcrest

[francois]

Bravo to Prof. Surfcrest; boo to Prof. Cox. :-BD

Bravo to Prof. SurfcrestThe problem we face as a species is that we find it impossible emotionally to accept the most likely of all explanations - that our existence is a fluke. Ask anyone the most basic question - are you the result a truly random interaction of specific sperm from your biological father and a specific egg from your biological mother - and watch the reaction as they struggle with the implications of what that means. They believe that somehow "God" chose them to come into existence.

[attachment=0:386vtzcj]Swallowing.JPG[/attachment:386vtzcj]

[francois]

Bravo to Prof. SurfcrestThe problem we face as a species is that we find it impossible emotionally to accept the most likely of all explanations - that our existence is a fluke.
[attachment=0:24l5ut7m]Swallowing.JPG[/attachment:24l5ut7m]

Human beings, per se, on Earth may be flukes, but there are likely many flukes throughout the Universe . Process of evolution from the simplest single-celled organism to more and more complex and varied species.

[Surfcrest]

Human beings, per se, on Earth may be flukes, but there are likely many flukes throughout the Universe . Process of evolution from the simplest single-celled organism to more and more complex and varied species.
You need only look to the person next to you to find another incredible fluke. We individuals are all flukes, or more importantly our genes are or how we came to survive so many generations. But someone had to survive, whether that was by the divine choice of God or simply because...a lot of someone(s) had to have survived to be here today.

Fertility for life in Space is not as easy as say the human ovaries. So many things have to be "just right" or within the "Goldilocks" realm to support even primitive life, with tiny variances catastrophic, such as with the past known Ice Ages and now with climate change and the warming of some areas into being inhabitable on Earth. Climate Change has had a huge impact on the history of some civilizations, such as the Maya, the Norse on Greenland and the Rapa Nui of Easter Island.

We've come along way with how far we can see into Space, able to see many solar systems within our own Galaxy (the Milky Way) to know that it would be difficult to support life on anything we've seen in this Galaxy...which shows the odds of finding anything like this remote throughout the entire Universe...but as francois correctly points out, theoretically possible.

They've started building the housing here in Vancouver to the biggest telescope in the world planned for Mauna Kea in Hawaii with a target completion date of 10 years. This beast will allow us to see to the far corners of the galaxy 13.6 billion light years away and see far into the past in terms of Space history since the Big Bang.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1931870/eyes-on-the-universe-what-the-investment-in-a-giant-telescope-means-to-canadians/

We once hung on to the belief about other beings; be they on the Moon, Mars or as our knowledge widens...much farther out into Space. It was to be a source of knowledge to "what it's all about" and "what we are doing here"? Now we know the answers aren't way out in distant Space or from Aliens, because the Universe is the same no matter what spot we are hurtling through.

Check this out! It's not entirely accurate, except for the fact that we (Our Galaxy) is indeed hurtling through Space.

[youtube:1q75hv9z]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU[/youtube:1q75hv9z]

Surfcrest

[Rogie]

Bravo Canada! :ymapplause:

To go one better than Hubble is very impressive. Some of the Hubble pictures are amazing (such as the one shown in the Global News website linked to in the previous post).

The article says the Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT) will have 'better resolution than Hubble'. I understand it will be able to 'detect' actual planets orbiting stars, but when the article says "possibly observe a potentially habitable planet", well that would be quite incredible if it turns out to be true. Maybe a huge planet circling a red dwarf?

The our solar system is a vortex had me gripping the arms on my seat! :-o

[francois]

So many things have to be "just right" or within the "Goldilocks" realm to support even primitive life, ......


We've come along way with how far we can see into Space, able to see many solar systems within our own Galaxy (the Milky Way) to know that it would be difficult to support life on anything we've seen in this Galaxy...which shows the odds of finding anything like this remote throughout the entire Universe...but as francois correctly points out, theoretically possible.
Surfcrest

Have just done some searching the net for estimates of stars with earth-like planets. Estimate is 50 billion in our Galaxy so chances of life is more than theoretically possible, and for me, a certainty.

Just look at our Solar system with it's 8 planets (plus Pluto). From a small rocky planet such as Mercury to the ga s giants such as Jupiter. And three of them, Earth, Venus and Mars all within the Golidlocks zone, one too hot, one too cold and one just right. And no doubt that Mars had water same as Earth. If our Sun can be a host to such a variety I can easily imagine that will be repeated throughout the Galaxy. But only way we will know if we receive some radio signals from them. Well, except greetings from their ambassadors on the UFOs.

Well, except greetings from their ambassadors on the UFOs.Pure anthropomorphism. You're assuming their intentions are benign.

[Surfcrest]

Just look at our Solar system with it's 8 planets (plus Pluto). From a small rocky planet such as Mercury to the ga s giants such as Jupiter. And three of them, Earth, Venus and Mars all within the Golidlocks zone, one too hot, one too cold and one just right. And no doubt that Mars had water same as Earth. If our Sun can be a host to such a variety I can easily imagine that will be repeated throughout the Galaxy. But only way we will know if we receive some radio signals from them. Well, except greetings from their ambassadors on the UFOs.
Unfortunately, our neighbour Mars has a lot less going for it than just the fact that it has no liquid water. Without the same molten iron core that Earth has, there is no magnetic field protecting it from the harmful solar winds from the sun. We sometimes look at earthquakes and tsunami's and lament at their destructive force here on Earth, yet their presence and place in history has been essential for life here on Earth as they are a direct effect of our molten iron core, the magnetic field that protects the Earth and our Atmosphere from the deadly effects of Space and solar activity. The same could be said for volcanos and super volcanos, the destructive forces that have also been responsible for bringing us back from climate change and enabling the planet to support the process of evolution that lead to intelligent life.

I believe another curious aspect of Earth's past, from what we know of other planets in our Milky Way Galaxy is the fact that we have water and yet are so close to the Sun. For this to have happened, either two possibilities might have occurred. That several water carrying comets collided with us in the planet's formation, enough to fill the Oceans...or that our orbit had somehow changed mid way through the planet's development and we were originally much farther out in the solar system and a significant event lead to that changing. Whatever is ultimately determined, it is yet another of the coincidences necessary to happen for Earth to support intelligent life today.

Surfcrest

[francois]

.
Unfortunately, our neighbour Mars has a lot less going for it than just the fact that it has no liquid water. Without the same molten iron core that Earth has, there is no magnetic field protecting it from the harmful solar winds from the sun. We sometimes look at earthquakes and tsunami's and lament at their destructive force here on Earth, yet their presence and place in history has been essential for life here on Earth as they are a direct effect of our molten iron core, the magnetic field that protect's the Earth and our Atmosphere from the deadly effects of Space and solar activity. The same could be said for volcanos and super volcanos, the destructive forces that have also been responsible for bringing us back from climate change and enabling the planet to support the process of evolution that lead to intelligent life.

Surfcrest


We will likely not know if life once existed on Mars until an expedition arrives there does extensive investigations. But there is some evidence that liquid water did exist on the surface for millions of year, maybe long enough for life to develop? Wait and see.

Since Smiles started this thread maybe he can share some of his thoughts?

[christianpfc]

There are lower animals that survive high doses of radiation; absence of a magnetic field (caused by iron core, and protecting earth from radiation) is no hindrance for life.

[francois]

What is 20000000000000000000000 = ?

Estimate of stars in the Universe! How many stars have planets? Don't know but my guess is most of them.
In my opinion, as stars developed in a natural progression so also did their planets and their moons. As for life, inevitable.

[Surfcrest]

Thanks to Hubble, we've been able to see Galaxies far, far away...not to mention the nearly countless other solar systems and planets in our own Milky Way Galaxy. Definitively, no one could possibly say there isn't life...or even an abundance of life in some form somewhere out there.

With Man having already been to Space, Science already knows about the hazards to life in Space and we have a pretty good idea what the basic environment or range in environment that would be necessary to support life as we know it. Life in itself might exist somewhere else completely different than what we know life to be...or perhaps like the Periodic table and the Laws of Physics, the basics of life are the same throughout the Universe as they are here on Earth.

And while there may be life out there that we have never encountered yet, that can survive the toughest of elements...such as radiation, these premises are based on surviving radiation on a life friendly plant like Earth, not some other more harsh environment in Space.

Our neighbour Venus is a good example of this argument. No doubt some of the many asteroids that have plowed into Earth over time have brought the building blocks to life from Earth to Venus, just as asteroid strikes to Mars and gravity have brought chunks of that Planet to Earth. Venus most probably supported water, once upon a time in it's existence...before the green house effect took over and made it's atmosphere toxic. And even though Earth might support an abundance of life today, we most likely are heading down the very same path as Venus or will suffer another life ending calamity from Space sooner than that.

Beyond that, more and more of this Planet could become inhabitable as we progress farther into climate change. The Sun is half way through it's 10 Billion year life expectancy already and as it gets brighter with age will probably cook us off the surface of this Planet in less than a Billion years anyway...and then Earth too will be as uninhabitable as it once was and will inevitably be.

Surfcrest

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/Surfcrest/Sombrero_Galaxy_in_infrared_light.jpg

The Sombrero Galaxy is an unbarred spiral galaxy in the constellation Virgo located 28 million light-years from Earth.

[francois]

Here is an article in New York Times about possible mechanism for life developing on earth.

It was the actions of Jupiter and Saturn that quite inadvertently created life on Earth тАФ not the gods of the Roman pantheon, but the giant planets, which once orbited much closer to the sun.....


All of this is a hypothesis, proposed by John Sutherland, a chemist at the University of Cambridge in England.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/scien ... earth.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/science/making-sense-of-the-chemistry-that-led-to-life-on-earth.html)

[Rogie]

All of this is a hypothesis, proposed by John Sutherland, a chemist at the University of Cambridge in England.


Scientists and naturalists have been pondering how life evolved on Earth for a long time, but it seems to have really gathered pace. More than one laboratory, in addition to the one referred to in the previous post, is working on this. Here is a link to another one:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-life- ... dna-2015-4 (http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-life-on-earth-began-evolution-rna-dna-2015-4)

Indeed it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't dozens of labs around the world tearing their hair out struggling to make sense of it. Seeking new discoveries is in man's blood and part of what makes us tick; winning the Nobel prize for Physics, Chemistry or Medicine being the acme of any scientist's career.

Like many reading this, I really am interested in knowing how it all started and how it properly got going. However, pausing for thought, is it really worth all that time and money? Could it not be better spent in so many other ways? One of which is a rather important matter - mankind's survival. Where will we be in a million year's time? A long way into the future it may seem, but to put it into perspective, the dinosaurs ruled the earth for 165 m years.

Mars is becoming more and more important. Nasa says we shall find indisputable proof of some kind of life existing beyond Earth within the solar system within the next ten years. Maybe it will be found on Mars. Maybe on one of Jupiter's or Saturn's moons. Maybe in several different planets / moons.

Here are 5 'undeniable' reasons we need to colonise Mars:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/5-undenia ... ars-2015-4 (http://uk.businessinsider.com/5-undeniable-reasons-why-humans-should-go-to-mars-2015-4)

[Surfcrest]

Sutherland's theory is an interesting one, it sort of goes along the line of the "Nice Model" and then it veers off somewhat. I've heard Professor Cox speak of a change of orbit between Neptune and Uranus that might have created similar results as to what Sutherland describes. I'm not so sure Mars makes sense to colonize with the amount of cost and effort required. I would think it's added size compared to our Moon would make it a more likely target for asteroid impacts and unshielded solar radiation. Perhaps Pink Floyd had it right all along...lol.

Timing is everything francois, this just in from National Geographic. It's not life, but it's an interesting find in that search and only 40 light years away.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/05/150506-volcano-planet-space-cancri-astronomy/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=link_fb20150506news-volcanoplanets&utm_campaign=Content&sf9022003=1

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/Surfcrest/superearth-2panel-lt_adapt_590_2.jpg

Surfcrest