relocating

[daf4]

Hi folks,having spent the last 5 years on holiday in pattaya and getting a wee bit older any guys give me advice on where to start the ball rolling about living there full time re.solicitors, financial,legal ,banking advice,basically where do I start and is there a good honest and helpfull place that will help me ..Thanks

There is one view that deciding to live in Pattaya of all places is a form of mental illness. However a lot of people swear by the Pattaya Expats Club (http://pattayaexpatsclub.info/) for the sort of information you seek

[francois]

Agree about info from Pattaya Expats Club.

Best advice I can give is to be sure you come here on a Type O, Non-Immigrant visa especially if coming to Pattaya. If you come on a 30 day-on-arrival or 60 day Tourist visa you cannot convert to a Type O visa at Immigration in Jomtien.
You will have to go to Bangkok Immigration. After applying there you must return in two weeks to pickup the Type O visa. Then after two months you can convert the Type O to a Retirement visa.

So avoid all that hassle and get the Type O before arriving in Thailand.

[bkkguy]

Then after two months you can convert the Type O to a Retirement visa.

really? how? where? you certainly can't do that in Bangkok - a NON-OA Retirement visa can only be issued in your home country

however if you are in Thailand with a permission to stay from a NON-O visa and you satisfy the criteria you can apply to extend that permission to stay for 12 months for reasons of retirement by submitting form TM7 - APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM and providing the necessary evidence of compliance

the requirements for a NON-OA at a Thai consulate or embassy and NON-O at a Thai consulate or embassy (Foreign Ministry regulations) are different from the requirements for a NON-O at an Immigration Division Office in Thailand (Interior Ministry regulations) and different offices in different countries, and sometimes even within a country, or different provinces in Thailand may have their own interpretation of the requirements

there are some specific advantages (and disadvantages) to a NON-OA visa and some advance planing required for smooth processing of a NON-O visa and retirement extension so daf4 do your research and pick the best option for your circumstances

unfortunately the various forum are full of confusing, misleading or just incorrect information because people do not think correct terminology is important! I always get berated by long term expats as being pedantic by distinguishing between "retirement extension" and "retirement visa" because they claim everybody knows what they mean when they say "retirement visa" - lets see how much daf4 understands francois' use of "retirement visa"

bkkguy

[Up2U]

My recommendation is the Pattaya City Expat Club for getting helpful information (http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/) and to sign up for the newsletter. The previously mentioned club(Pattaya Expat Club) is a spinoff of Nielsen Colov, owner of Pattaya People newspaper. I mention the PCEC link because the OP asked for good, honest, helpful information and I am a member of that club which meets every Sunday at the Amari's Tavern by the Sea

[daf4]

thanks guys it just seems so difficult just now but sure things will come to fruition,all help and comments are really appreciated thanks to all

[francois]

Then after two months you can convert the Type O to a Retirement visa.

really? how? where? you certainly can't do that in Bangkok - a NON-OA Retirement visa can only be issued in your home country

- lets see how much daf4 understands francois' use of "retirement visa"

bkkguy

You sure do like to quibble bkkguy! I never mentioned a OA visa, just an O visa which you can get while in Thailand at Immigration Office in Bangkok. I did that a week ago and was told to pick it up two weeks after I paid the 2000 Baht fee. I was also told by the Immigration officer that I could get a retirement visa (her words) after two more months. All these requirements are carefully listed in Pattaya Expats Club website.
\
http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/ex ... cklist.pdf (http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/docs/retirementvisachecklist.pdf)

Point of my post was not to come on a 30 day permission to stay or a 60 day tourist visa but come on a Non-Immigrant visa either O or OA. Less of a hassle especially if living in Pattaya.

[Up2U]

Not to quibble but there are two expat clubs in Pattaya with almost the same name. As mentioned, the Pattaya Expat Club which is associated with Niels Colov empire and is more commercial, and then my club, the Pattaya City Expat Club (http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/), which has an excellent newsletter and various interests groups. Our webmaster is great on keeping our visa section current and if anyone has any issues, please inform the club via our email link. Thanks!

[2lz2p]

All the responses mention living here on the basis of retirement - so the assumption is that you are at least 50 years of age as that is one of the requirements to get a long term stay based on retirement. The other is meeting the financial requirements - either 800,000 Baht on deposit in a Thai bank for 2 months before applying OR a letter from your Embassy certifying or attesting to a monthly income of 65,000 Baht per month OR a combination of the two where annualized monthly income added to money on deposit in a Thai bank are equal to or greater than 800,000 Baht. In the combo method, the rules do not require the money in the bank portion be there for any length of time; BUT some Immigration office will impose that restriction -- Chonburi (Pattaya) and Bangkok Immigration do not impose a time limit when using the combo method.

If you meet those requirements, it is possible to enter Thailand on the 30 day exempt or Tourist Visa and obtain an Non-Immigrant "O" Visa from Bangkok Immigration (Bangkok requires you have at least 15 days remaining on your permission to stay when you apply and then come back in 14 days to have the Non-Immigrant Visa put in your passport - they will also give you a permission to stay for 90 days). You will then need to apply for a one year extension of stay - Bangkok tells you to come back in 60 days to get it, Chonburi (Pattaya) will most likely process it at anytime during the 90 day period - the one year addition will be tacked on to the initial 90 days received. If you can get a Non-Immigrant "O" Visa from a Thai Embassy/consulate you would receive a permission to stay of 90 days on entry into Thailand -- then all you need do is apply for the one year extension of stay based on retirement at Thai Immigration before your 90 days are up (some Immigration Offices require you have at least 21 days remaining on the stay).

As mentioned you can also apply for a Non-immigrant "O-A" Visa in your home country. You will need to check with the Thai Embassy/Consulate on their particular requirements for documentation which will include a police report and a medical certificate (neither of which are required if applying for extension in Thailand). They may also require that documents be notarized, e.g., bank letter attesting to funds on deposit or letter from your income source if using monthly income to qualify. When entering Thailand on an O-A Visa, you receive a one year permission to stay. Most O-A Visas are coded "M" meaning multiple entry - thus if you leave and return to Thailand before the "Enter by" date shown on the O-A Visa, you will get a one year permission to stay each time.

As mentioned by Up2U, a good source of information is the Pattaya City Expat Club's (PCEC) website - but to save you time, go to this URL for the page on Thai Immigration requirements: http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/visa.html. This page also explains the correct terminology noting the distinction between a Visa and a Permission to Stay stamp - although extensions of stay for purpose of retirement are often referred to as "retirement visas" even by Thai Immigration, it is not the correct term - most of the time, it probably doesn't matter - BUT, sometimes it does and using the wrong term can get you the wrong advice - the PCEC has someone that keeps up with Thai Immigration matters - this person keeps their website info up to date and also offers assistance when asked. I suggest you read the PCEC information and if you have any questions, email info@pcecclub.org - they will pass your request on to this person for response.

Also, in regard to living in Thailand, the PCEC website has a complete section on this subject including information about banking, health care, vehicles including getting a Thai driving license, and much more. You can go to this page for an introduction and then on to page 2 for links to the subjects covered: http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/living.html or go to this url for the page with the links to subject matter: http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/living2.html.

[Brad the Impala]

What a helpful post 2lz2p. Very clear in it's desription of the options, and providing for follow ups as well.

Is there a special place on the forum for making such posts easily accessible for months to come?

[scottish-guy]

Indeed. I think his post is the only one I have ever read on this subject which did not lose me by the end of the 3rd sentence. It is clear and concise - even a cretin like me whose eyes normally glaze over when reading posts about Visas, can follow it.

I'm assuming of course, that it's factually correct - but no doubt someone will have something to say about that :))

[Nirish guy]

Ah but you didn't mention Tuesdays - as I went once to the pattaya office and the officer told me that they only issued O -A visas on tuesdays between 2 and 3 and only if accompanied by your grandparents........( I'm joking of course as this is usually the type of post that follows a good advice post and like SG leaves me more confused than before !)

I also agree that the post above should be sticky'd in some way ( until the rules change again no doubt) as again like SG I think it's the first post re visas/ exemptions where I ever "got it" on my first read.

[bkkguy]

As mentioned you can also apply for a Non-immigrant "O-A" Visa in your home country. You will need to check with the Thai Embassy/Consulate on their particular requirements for documentation which will include a police report and a medical certificate (neither of which are required if applying for extension in Thailand). They may also require that documents be notarized, e.g., bank letter attesting to funds on deposit or letter from your income source if using monthly income to qualify.

one of the critical differences between a NON-O and a NON-OA visa, which is not obvious from this description or from the PCEC pages, is that with a NON-OA visa the funds on deposit remain in your home country thus giving you potentially 20-22 months stay in Thailand before committing to moving your funds there

bkkguy

[christianpfc]

I'm assuming of course, that it's factually correct - but no doubt someone will have something to say about that :))
Here we go:

...it is possible to enter Thailand on the 30 day exempt or Tourist Visa and obtain an Non-Immigrant "O" Visa from Bangkok Immigration...
As far as I know, visa exemption (30 days) cannot be converted to a visa.

[Brad the Impala]

Well clarity didn't last long! If you visit the Immigration department's website the guidance for applying for a Non Immigrant Visa(which in itself seems to be a bit of a misnomer) the process is 100% straight forward.


"Apply for Non-Immigration Visa Procedure
Contact the information counter to pick up a queue card.
Submit your passport and other related documents to the officer.
Pay the fee and fine in case of overstay.
Meet with the officer to receive stamp and approval hearing, except
- for retirement visas
- when the applicant has hold Thai citizenship before
- for business class A
- for visas special cases
(If making a statement is required, it takes approx. 40 min.)

Collect your passport.
On the appointed day and time, please present your passport to the officer in person.
There is charge for this stage.
Note:
Duration time for each process only, waiting time not include.

There are pictures of this process too!

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=procedure

The trouble with these threads is that there are always people who half know or are speculating, when what you want is certainty, which I guess is changing all the time, and not always announced. In the meantime I will stick with 2lz2p!

[Up2U]

I'm assuming of course, that it's factually correct - but no doubt someone will have something to say about that :))
Here we go:

...it is possible to enter Thailand on the 30 day exempt or Tourist Visa and obtain an Non-Immigrant "O" Visa from Bangkok Immigration...
As far as I know, visa exemption (30 days) cannot be converted to a visa.
Several years ago I came here on a 30 day visa exempt, converted it to non-immigrant type O and received my one year extension to stay for the purposes of retirement (retirement visa) all on the same day at Pattaya Immigration. As posted, this is no longer possible in Pattaya and must be done in Bangkok.

[daf4]

Again thanks a lot for all you guys help,as I said very much appreciated thanks a million

[bkkguy]

obviously consistent and careful use of correct terminology is not important to avoid confusion...


If you meet those requirements, it is possible to enter Thailand on the 30 day exempt or Tourist Visa and obtain an Non-Immigrant "O" Visa from Bangkok Immigration

technically correct and implies correct result but may be misleading


As far as I know, visa exemption (30 days) cannot be converted to a visa.

technically correct but implies incorrect result



Several years ago I came here on a 30 day visa exempt, converted it to non-immigrant type O and received my one year extension to stay for the purposes of retirement

technically incorrect but implies correct result

if you arrive without a visa you then need to apply for a visa in Bangkok (form TM87), if you arrive on a tourist visa you need to apply for a change of visa class in Bangkok (form TM86) - in both cases you need the supporting documentation and sufficient days remaining on your current permission to stay

bkkguy

[Up2U]

Several years ago I came here on a 30 day visa exempt, converted it to non-immigrant type O and received my one year extension to stay for the purposes of retirement

technically incorrect but implies correct result

if you arrive without a visa you then need to apply for a visa in Bangkok (form TM87), if you arrive on a tourist visa you need to apply for a change of visa class in Bangkok (form TM86) - in both cases you need the supporting documentation and sufficient days remaining on your current permission to stay

bkkguy
I completed these forms several years ago at Pattaya Immigration and had my retirement extension in one day. Towards the end of last year Pattaya Immigration no longer performs this service which as I noted in my complete post must be done in Bangkok.

[christianpfc]

As far as I know, a visa for Thailand can only be obtained outside of Thailand. But if you have one type of visa, it can be converted to another type of visa at Immigration.

[2lz2p]

Bkkguy wrote regarding my post:

obviously consistent and careful use of correct terminology is not important to avoid confusion...
technically correct and implies correct result but may be misleading
if you arrive without a visa you then need to apply for a visa in Bangkok (form TM87), if you arrive on a tourist visa you need to apply for a change of visa class in Bangkok (form TM86) - in both cases you need the supporting documentation and sufficient days remaining on your current permission to stay


I would take exception to using the word тАЬmisleading.тАЭ The definition for тАЬmisleadтАЭ is generally shown as: to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit or to lead astray: give a wrong impression.

Apparently bkkguy felt the post was тАЬincomplete,тАЭ but I would even disagree with that since my intent was a brief summary; not all the details. The original posting did mention the requirements (age and financial) and said if you meet the requirements you can "obtain". . Most readers I am sure would realize that there was paperwork and documents required тАУ those can be found on the PCEC website and was the reason for providing the link as the Website includes a lot more information in addition to explaining the correct terminology. It also includes information on тАЬobtainingтАЭ the Non-O Visa at Bangkok Immigration using the appropriate application form depending on whether you entered on Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa тАУ it even has links so that the appropriate application form can be downloaded. It also lists the documents that would normally be required.

Christianpfc wrote:


As far as I know, a visa for Thailand can only be obtained outside of Thailand. But if you have one type of visa, it can be converted to another type of visa at Immigration.

I am always happy to add to your knowledge. Getting a Non-O Visa within Thailand when you arrived on Visa Exempt status has been available for many years. As Up2U mentioned, he did this a few years ago at Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration. I also know several others that did the same thing.

The PCEC website has had the information on the 2 step process he used posted for several years тАУ it was recently updated when the authority to issue the Non-O Visa was taken away from Chonburi Immigration. But, for purposes other than retirement, I have the same understanding - you cannot get the Visa within Thailand but must get it from a Thai Embassy or Consulate.

[Surfcrest]

Is there a special place on the forum for making such posts easily accessible for months to come?
Years ago, we had a "Resource Forum" that jinks used to park relevant stuff to. It was sort of forgotten and so someone moved it to the Shop forums, a sub forum that only the moderators can see and converse between ourselves in. (The PM Mailbox could only hold a small amount of messages back then)

The Resource Forum is actually still there! It's old stuff and I could clean it up and put it out there again with good stuff like this. It might be nice for newbies to go to first to get some basic info fast. I'll copy 2lz2p post(s) and add these as a resource on his important topic, so thank you very much...and to all the contributors.

Surfcrest

[Nirish guy]

If you DO open that forum back up again just to be clear are you / "the board" going to stand over the info therein then as not a lot of point of someone going there for the correct resource info only for it to be a year out of date and incorrect so perhaps what IS going there and it's ongoing validity should be decided upon ( by you I guess Surf?) and that should be agreed so we all know we can trust what's there otherwise it's just yet another continually added to thread on ( usually incorrect) visa info anyway then - no ?

[bkkguy]

I would take exception to using the word тАЬmisleading.тАЭ The definition for тАЬmisleadтАЭ is generally shown as: to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit or to lead astray: give a wrong impression.

Apparently bkkguy felt the post was тАЬincomplete,тАЭ but I would even disagree with that since my intent was a brief summary; not all the details.

I never said the post was incomplete and my problem with the post was not about the discussion of supporting documentation, and my British English use of misleading leans more towards "give a wrong impression" rather than "deliberate deceit" and I did say "may be" but I will withdraw the term if you like and leave it as "possibly confusing"

my general point is this thread is typical of most threads about visas - poster 1 says you can do this ("obtain"), poster 2 says you cannot ("convert"), poster 3 says you can ("I converted"), when challenged poster 2 responds you cannot ("convert" or "obtain") and poster 3 responds you can ("I did it" but no clarification as to "how") and very few of the posts contain enough clear information for most people, including the original poster on this thread, to decide who is right and who is wrong

yes the link you included does include the distinction between new visa and change of visa class, but how many of the posters here bothered to read it and understand it? how many posters will be more careful of the advice they offer in future discussion forum posts based on this document and the way this thread has deteriorated into confusion?

bkkguy

[francois]

If anything, bkkguy, you have made the thread more confusing with your comments; you are right and everyone else is wrong in some way or the other.

[bkkguy]

If anything, bkkguy, you have made the thread more confusing with your comments

you don't know and/or appear to be unwilling or unable to try to understand the difference between a NON-OA Retirement visa issued in your home country and a NON-O visa with extensions of permission to stay for retirement issued in Bangkok so you will continue to post statements like you have on this thread here - but if you want to keep claiming that you did convert your NON-O visa to a Retirement visa in Bangkok post a copy of the visa here and prove me wrong, nobody I have challenged in the past has been able to do it, you could be the first!

Up2U doesn't know and/or appears to be unwilling or unable to try to understand the difference between applying for a visa and changing visa class so will continue to post statements like he has on this thread here

2lz2p appears to be unwilling or unable to admit that his post is anything but perfect and everyone seems to want to see it preserved for eternity when a few minor changes could be helpful

so threads like this will continue to appear here and on other discussion forums about Thailand with people arguing at cross-purposes using wrong terminology and confusing people reading the forums trying to understand visa procedures

but obviously pointing out the correct terminology is not the solution and the confusion is obviously all my fault so I will try in the future to be more careful about contaminating such threads full of such useful information!

bkkguy

[francois]

prove me wrong, nobody I have challenged in the past has been able to do it, you could be the first!

bkkguy

Gad, now you want proof!

^:)^

[Smiles]

" ... " ... you don't know and/or appear to be unwilling or unable to try to understand the difference between a NON-OA Retirement visa issued in your home country and a NON-O visa with extensions of permission to stay ... "

" ... so threads like this will continue to appear here and on other discussion forums about Thailand with people arguing at cross-purposes using wrong terminology and confusing people reading the forums trying to understand visa procedures ... "
... "
So after that, perhaps you (yourself) should also be using the correct terminology in your visa lessons (for the confused among us): For instance, there is no such animal as a NON-OA Visa, nor a NON-O Visa.

The correct terminology is Non-Immigrant O-A Visa (with 'O-A' hyphenated) and a NON Immigrant O Visa.
On occasion, the 'Immigrant' part is reduced to 'Imm' ... to save time for lazy speakers, writers, and the occasional pedant, I guess.

But I give you this: you are mostly right, most of the time.


PS ... the OP (daf4's) head must be exploding just about now. :ymsick:

[Up2U]

If anything, bkkguy, you have made the thread more confusing with your comments

you don't know and/or appear to be unwilling or unable to try to understand the difference between a NON-OA Retirement visa issued in your home country and a NON-O visa with extensions of permission to stay for retirement issued in Bangkok so you will continue to post statements like you have on this thread here - but if you want to keep claiming that you did convert your NON-O visa to a Retirement visa in Bangkok post a copy of the visa here and prove me wrong, nobody I have challenged in the past has been able to do it, you could be the first!

Up2U doesn't know and/or appears to be unwilling or unable to try to understand the difference between applying for a visa and changing visa class so will continue to post statements like he has on this thread here

2lz2p appears to be unwilling or unable to admit that his post is anything but perfect and everyone seems to want to see it preserved for eternity when a few minor changes could be helpful

so threads like this will continue to appear here and on other discussion forums about Thailand with people arguing at cross-purposes using wrong terminology and confusing people reading the forums trying to understand visa procedures

but obviously pointing out the correct terminology is not the solution and the confusion is obviously all my fault so I will try in the future to be more careful about contaminating such threads full of such useful information!

bkkguy

Now what in the world is a non-O visa? I think I want one! Anyone confused?

EDIT: I just read Smiles post now everything is clear thanks to smiles.

[2lz2p]

bkkguy..
2lz2p appears to be unwilling or unable to admit that his post is anything but perfect and everyone seems to want to see it preserved for eternity when a few minor changes could be helpful

Actually, I don't have to admit my post was not perfect as I never said it was. But it did and still does meet my intent, which was to answer the original posters request:
basically where do I start and is there a good honest and helpfull place that will help me by providing a general summary without going into detail and a place where he could get started. IMO going into detail in this type of posting is what usually causes confusion especially when responses use common but incorrect terminology. Based on the comments of many other posters, they felt the information offered was valuable to them and I am sure that if they wanted the detail, they would have gone to the link provided or at least PM'd me for more detail.

bkkguy..
but obviously pointing out the correct terminology is not the solution and the confusion is obviously all my fault so I will try in the future to be more careful about contaminating such threads full of such useful information!

Thank you, I'm sure most posters agree with your decision.

[daf4]

thanks again guys, you are correct smiles, hopefully I will find a good solicitor/someone who is an expert in these matters probably cost me but probably worth it again thank you guys for all the input all very much appreciated(anybody know a good solicitor/lawyer who can do this for me in pattaya)

[francois]

After coming to Thailand for five years and after all the advice posted herein you now want the name of a solicitor? Just what more do you want? After reviewing many of your previous posts it seems all you are doing is trolling for attention and not for anything else. Good luck and good riddance.

[daf4]

OK thanks for that francois ,truth being I am 54 years old now getting fed up of the politics,and all things associated with UK,taxes,immigration,the home rule thing it is just pissing me off, and I rekon selling my house and with my savings I could retire,maybe not now but two years down the line or so.
I apologise if I offend you francois but the information and advice posted is really appreciated but me not knowing absolutely nothing ,the posts are too much for me too understand and I just feel I need some expert advice and someone help me get started,and by saying that I mean no offence to all whom have posted,from my heart I thank all of you,but as i.d smiles says it is a lot to take in
I am so not trolling for attention and posts in the past maybe kind of embarrassing but please remember that's my first few visits to pattaya and was so in love with the place and still am, if it comes across like that I certainly don't mean it... for now I look forward to my next visit which will be November and 2016 for good hopefully

[francois]

Suggest you go on-line for Thai Consulate that serves your city/country. Read requirements for visas they issue.
Call or visit their Immigration Officer and ask their advice on how to proceed. Easy-peasy.

There comes a time to start fishing and stop cutting bait.

[Up2U]

OK thanks for that francois ,truth being I am 54 years old now getting fed up of the politics,and all things associated with UK,taxes,immigration,the home rule thing it is just pissing me off, and I rekon selling my house and with my savings I could retire,maybe not now but two years down the line or so.
I apologise if I offend you francois but the information and advice posted is really appreciated but me not knowing absolutely nothing ,the posts are too much for me too understand and I just feel I need some expert advice and someone help me get started,and by saying that I mean no offence to all whom have posted,from my heart I thank all of you,but as i.d smiles says it is a lot to take in
I am so not trolling for attention and posts in the past maybe kind of embarrassing but please remember that's my first few visits to pattaya and was so in love with the place and still am, if it comes across like that I certainly don't mean it... for now I look forward to my next visit which will be November and 2016 for good hopefully
Follow the advice given already. Read the Pattaya City Expat Club website. When here are on holiday, come to the meetings, make friends, ask questions. Solicitors and professional visa companies are totally unnecessary and can actually complicate things. Be suspicious of solicitors, realtors and professionals here as some have given their professions a bad reputation (and often deservedly so).

[daf4]

Thank you francois and I apologise if I came across in a bad way,as I said all posts were really appreciated although I found hard to understand, so thanks all and especially
Up2U the best and obvious advice yet,i am back over in November and will attend the meetings and keep watching web page for updates.
cheers to everyone xxxxxxxxxxthanks

[Smiles]

daf4 ... please check your PM inbox.

A few things I can say of a positive nature, taking into consideration that this thread has delved the depths of Visa Confusionitis (a Farang disease in Thailand), is that once you have managed to get yourself approved for a 12-month visa (assuming you even want to) then life in Thailand long-term is remarkably simple ~ visa-wise at least.
Once approved and picked up you will need to: (1) visit Thai Immigration once every 90 days to show you are alive and have a Thailand address (free), and (2) visit Thai Immigration once a year to apply for your 12-month Extension (1900 baht).

(There is one more small hoop you will need to jump through if you decide to leave Thailand once, or more than once during the year. But in the interest of visa non-confusion, I will leave that alone for another day.)

PS ... you do not need a lawyer to get this either understood or completed. It's just not necessary. Just follow the directions here: http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/49 On the opening page, scroll down through the box of Non Immigrant visas until, at the bottom, you'll see the two visas mentioned in this thread . . . the 'O' and the 'O-A'. Follow the yellow brick road down down down where you will find the instructions for them both. Up to you which one to chose to apply for.