Underside of gay boy life in Pattaya.

[catawampuscat]

Unbeknownst to many, the scourge of yaba inflicts damage on many gay boys in Pattaya.
HIV another major issue, but this thread is a true tale of a Thai boy and yaba.
Boy (not real nickname) is very popular on gayromeo and was also popular in his Gogo boy days. Boy had been
pulled over by police on his motorbike twice this month, tested positive for yaba and
was able to raise 25,000b. to pay off police each time, and not arrested.
Last night, several police followed him home and he was found in possession of yaba ice.
Pee test was positive and Boy ran out of sponsors to help with money, so Boy turned in
several other Thais who were dealers/friends. Police picked up at least two of them
Boy was released this morning.
Friends of Boy told me they would have served the time, which might have been years,
rather than rat out the dealer friends.
Boy will have to flee Pattaya or be shot dead and not return to Pattaya.
I'll continue the story as it unfolds.

One frequent way the police find and arrest pedo farangs, is they offer the boys a deal when they get picked up for yaba. They give the police the pedo's address for a lighter
sentence and if young enough are released after giving up the addresses/ tel.#s.

From the thread title I assumed this was another of christian's fetishes we'd be hearing about.

[christianpfc]

Is this copy paste or do you know the boy?

The way you tell the story, it sounds like a natural disaster or a plane crash. But I think the boys are aware of the illegality of drugs and negative effects on their health. By my standards, the users should be punished (money, prison, work camp), and the dealer and producer should get death sentence.

The only way to make a sure a drug dealer will never deal drugs again, is to kill him.

Sidenote: drug addiction has nothing to do with being gay or with pedophilia.


rather than rat out the dealer friends
What fine friends he has! (I mean the friends who sells him the drug.)

[lego]

The only thing that surprises me about the OP is how that can still be considered news to anyone?

At face value:

The police had hit the 25,000 baht jackpot twice with that guy before they moved in a 3rd time. Why would they quit "stalking" him seeing he's as good as a golden goose?
Finally unable to pay, he was offered an alternative way out of trouble and jumped on it. I'm neither surprised by the offer nor by its ready acceptance.
There really isn't much to see there. Police corruption? Hardly news. A drug addict ratting out so-called friends? Hardly news.

Are there lessons to be learned? Don't sponsor a drug addict's payments to the police. Keep that money, you might need it yourself one day. Duh.


The only way to make a sure a drug dealer will never deal drugs again, is to kill him.
You might be on to something there. The same applies to rapists, bank robbers and people who are goofy enough to lose their passport. :))

[anonone]

The story is very common, and not at all limited to Thailand. Most narcotics investigations run exactly the same way (perhaps without the 25,000 baht portion) all across the world. Police always attempt to put pressure on a suspect to turn over someone more valuable/higher up the chain.

[colmx]

i know of one particular boy that served 18 months as he refused to give up the name of his upstream(farang) Dealer
He was an ex-Sunee gogo boy, and was working GR and supplementing income as a small time dealer. He got ratted out by a girl that he had sold some Ice to

The farang "big dealer" was of course very grateful... But i think has since fallen foul of the law as not all his "boys" were willing to take a hit for him...

Last time I chatted with the boy, he swore that he would never get involved in drugs again after his prison ordeal...
But funnilly enough i have not seen him online in the last month - so i am resuming that he is back under lock and key again!

[scottish-guy]

Sounds like some of our members need to be a bit more fussy about the company they keep - why on earth would you keep associating with a boy you know is involved in dealing drugs (irrespective of size of his cock)?

Loved Christian's suggestion of sending miscreants to a "work camp" - wonder where he got that idea from :))

[colmx]

why on earth would you keep associating with a boy you know is involved in dealing drugs (irrespective of size of his cock)?

I never said that i still associated with him!
But its very difficult to completely divorce yourself from a Thai guy without a subsequent loss of face (and any consequences that may occur as a result of the loss of that face) - Always best to err on the side of caution!

[scottish-guy]

Wasnt actually referring to YOU Colmx :))

[catawampuscat]

Yaba permeates the gay boy scene in Pattaya. Certainly, this is not a scoop or
earth shattering news but for some of us, especially newbies or naive farangs who
believe every word their boy tells them, it's important to report on.
As Colmx stated, it's close to impossible to avoid users, if you socialize with Thai boys
or have a Thai bf in Pattaya. Yaba permeates, like it or not.
Work camps a great idea. They can concentrate yaba users users together and maybe
put a big letter Y (in Thai) on their shirts or better brand it on their foreheads.
I'd favor cutting off hands rather than death. A little compassion goes a long way..

Btw, 'Boy' left Pattaya for Bangkok .

Since taking recreational drugs is a large part of the gay ghetto "lifestyle" in some Western countries I'm somewhat surprised people bother posting this nonsense. And then I remember the nature of our membership.

http://gaylife.about.com/cs/healthfitness/a/crystal.htm

[scottish-guy]

In amongst talk of imprisoning certain undesirable people, sending them to concentration camps (there, I've said it), and/or cutting their hands off - I have to observe that there is a certain irony in such suggestions coming from elderly men whose mission in life seems to be committing sodomy with as many teenage boy prostitutes (or young men 1/4 their age) as they can possibly find.

Surely they realise that many on the outside (the majority?) would happily inflict such punishments (and more) on these self-appointed moral guardians.

My suggestion would be to simply avoid associating with drug dealing boys, to keep one's collar turned up and hat pulled down, and avoid throwing stones whilst living in a glass house.

:))

[Nirish guy]

Oh I do wish they'd hurry up with that "like" button so I could use it for posts such as the one above :-)

[Dodger]

Cat wrote:

They can concentrate yaba users users together and maybe put a big letter Y (in Thai) on their shirts or better brand it on their foreheads.
I'd favor cutting off hands rather than death. A little compassion goes a long way..

Coming from someone who probably lays in bed at night fantasizing about cigarette smokers being burnt at the stake this doesn't surprise me.

First you admit being knowledgeble of the fact that Yaba has permeated the bar scene - then jest about the boys (including the ones you enjoy having sex with) having their hands cut off for smoking Yaba.

Wait a minute..., just to make sure I have this right...you spend your life in bars where you know the staff smokes yaba...then go on to flirt with them and pay them to go back to your room and have sex with you...and then turn around the next day and write statements to your friends on a public website about how you think the boys you choose to spend your time with (including to one you just romanced to night before) should have their hands cut off. You're a real piece of work.

[latintopxxx]

scottish, your post is a bit disturbing (and I'm not picking on you) but to equate being gay to being a druggie is a bit much. Its perfectly legal to Thailand to have gay sex. correct??
Dont want to nit pick about money boys, am simply referring to gay sex. And as for the age difference, whats good for the gander (str8 world) is good for this gay goose.
Its difficult to avoid drugs period. Gay or straight world. The best one can do is make sure your friends are as sane and drug free as possible (is pot a drug??) and as for the money boys...those I really dont care, I only use them short time before moving on. Sounds cold...I know...but they are only there to serve a very specific purpose, I dont wanna befriend them or even converse with them.

[Dodger]

scottish-guy...

I couldn't agree more. Your statements were spot on.


latintopxxx wrote:

scottish, your post is a bit disturbing (and I'm not picking on you) but to equate being gay to being a druggie is a bit much. Its perfectly legal to Thailand to have gay sex. correct??

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand which is the nature of "gay sex" the majority of us farangs indulge in. As far as the age difference goes - we would all be tarred and feathered in the West for performing immoral acts...or possibly killed, or branded, or have our hands cut off similar to the punishment that yaba users should be inflicted with according to the OP and others. I think that's the glass house that Scottish is talking about.

I don't mind people who condemn drug users - or for that fact condemn gays...none of this bothers me. What bothers me are people who talk out of both sides of their mouth. They can befriend someone only for their own selfish reasons (in this case sex) and then backstab them the minute they are finished with them as Catawampus and others are doing. In Chicago they called these types of people "Cross-Town Jimmies".

[topjohn5]

I refuse to get into this debate......okay, maybe I'll just stick my toe in.....
Prohibition simply doesn't work.

... drug free as possible ...No alcohol then? Alcohol abuse causes far more social disruption and family violence than any other drug.

http://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/campai ... on-alcohol (http://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/campaign/statistics-on-alcohol)

[francois]

I viewed post by Catawampus as sarcastic regarding the marking with a Y and branding Yaba users and concentrating them. An obvious reference to the atrocities of the Nazis regarding the Jews and likewise a dig at Christian's draconian penalties for drug users.

[catawampuscat]

Thanks Francois . Of course I was being sarcastic and the branding/letter was a reference to the Star of David worn
by Jews in Nazi Germany. Concentrated reference to concentration camps aka work camps and cutting off hands
clearly sarcastic.
I despise heavy handed authoritative measures.
Draconian measures don't work. The poor suffer and the rich get off.

[christianpfc]

I despise heavy handed authoritative measures. Draconian measures don't work.
Of course they do! If you kill a drug dealer or producer, he will never deal or produce drugs again. If it deters others is a different question, but for this one it's absolutely sure.

Given the large number of boys I came into contact with, there are surely some drug users among them. Yes, my second favorite boy from Saranrom is currently in prison for drug use. I hope this cures him, I will happily take him back when he is out.

[topjohn5]

I despise heavy handed authoritative measures. Draconian measures don't work.
Of course they do! If you kill a drug dealer or producer, he will never deal or produce drugs again. If it deters others is a different question, but for this one it's absolutely sure.

Given the large number of boys I came into contact with, there are surely some drug users among them. Yes, my second favorite boy from Saranrom is currently in prison for drug use. I hope this cures him, I will happily take him back when he is out.

Actually Christian you are wrong. It doesn't work. Economic dictates that it won't work. What you will produce by killing the drug dealer is inflating the price by limiting the supply. By doing this you will do many things. One of which is to replace the current softer dealer with more hardened criminal dealers due to raising the profit margins. You will have more murders. You will by inflating the price also make the users steal and rob a larger amount of money than before and add vast amounts of crime. This has been seen time and time again. Just look at the crime that occurred during Americas stupid attempt of alcohol prohibition and the current war on drugs. Thank goodness that at least there is a little sense happening with a new trend to legalize pot.
What needs to happen rather than these foolish ideas is to take the profit out of the act. To do that you remove it as a crime. The profit is then so reduced that criminals vacate the market reducing crime across the board. If you want you can add a slight tax to the drugs and sell them in a government store. Use the taxes only for education and to police the selling to minors and attempt (lol) to stop the use in the first place....but honestly it has never worked for alcohol has it and drugs USE has done far less damage than alcohol by a long shot.
The main reason for addiction is genetic and until we figure out how to fix it (if ever we do) then this will never end.

[joe552]

"The main reason for addiction is genetic and until we figure out how to fix it (if ever we do) then this will never end"

Presumably you have scientific evidence that addiction is mainly genetic? First I've heard of it. Perhaps you'd like to share your sources?

I agree with much of what you say about criminalising drug use, as opposed to alcohol use, but I'm not sure you're correct in your assertion about addiction being mainly genetic.

[topjohn5]

"The main reason for addiction is genetic and until we figure out how to fix it (if ever we do) then this will never end"

Presumably you have scientific evidence that addiction is mainly genetic? First I've heard of it. Perhaps you'd like to share your sources?

I agree with much of what you say about criminalising drug use, as opposed to alcohol use, but I'm not sure you're correct in your assertion about addiction being mainly genetic.

Well, I guess I could amend my sentence slightly but since the studies are 40% to 60% that addiction is genetic I won't....Would you say with those percentages that it is the "main reason".....as I think about it I would....I would still say that since there are various other factors, and not just one other factor, it does remain the main reason.
Here is one of many sources....this one from the National Institute of Drug Abuse of NIH: http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/addiction-science/genes-environment-comorbidity/studies-have-shown-40-60-percent-predisposition-to-addiction-can

[francois]

For me, little difference, if at all, among smokers, boozers, oenophiles , gormandizers, and pot heads, meth heads and coke heads. They/we are all looking for some sort of high or buzz from our addictions or fixes. If anything alcohol and tobacco are likely the cause of more death and suffering than most other drugs of choice.

[topjohn5]

For me, little difference, if at all, among smokers, boozers, oenophiles , gormandizers, and pot heads, meth heads and coke heads. They/we are all looking for some sort of high or buzz from our addictions or fixes. If anything alcohol and tobacco are likely the cause of more death and suffering than most other drugs of choice.

I totally agree with you francois....and stay tuned because processed fructose may be an addition to this list as well....more studies yet to be done on this however.

[Dodger]

The National Council on Sexual Addiction and Compulsivity has defined sexual addiction as тАЬengaging in persistent and escalating patterns of sexual behavior acted out despite increasing negative consequences to self and others.тАЭ In other words, a sex addict will continue to engage in certain sexual behaviors despite facing potential health risks, financial problems, shattered relationships or even arrest. The same compulsive behavior that characterizes other addictions including drug, alcohol and gambling dependency is also typical of sex addiction.

National Council on Sexual Addiction and Compulsivity

I know that nobody here (including myself) exhibit these types of compulsive behaviors....right?

The National Council on Sexual Addiction and Compulsivity"Has to be an American "council" no one else could be so stupid.

[catawampuscat]

Stereotyping hundreds of millions of people is stupid .
No room for blatant ignorance here

[searcher]

Dear Christian , firstly I thought your comment was another example for your dry sense of humor which I highly appreciate but it seems that this time you really mean what you say. After several meetings I thought you to be an intelligent..maybe a little weird ..person. I did not expect this nonsense from you, don t want to comment on it further...

[christianpfc]

topjohn5, I see your point (economy of illegal drug dealing).

I don't know if legalizing (taking out the criminal element and preventing children from getting addicted) is a way to eliminate drugs (by preventing children from getting access).


Thank goodness that at least there is a little sense happening with a new trend to legalize pot.
I disagree.

I am against smoking, drinking and hard drugs. This a war on three fronts: The damage done by smoking to the individual (cancer) is larger than by alcohol (reasonable drinking), but people high on nicotine don't beat their wives or cause accidents by drink driving. Hard drugs affect fewer people (therefore the total damage is smaller), but for those who take them it can be life destroying.

Sidenote: my grandfather died from lung cancer (after being a heavy smoker for a long time - there are non-smokers who die from lung cancer, but there is a correlation between smoking and cancer), and my uncle died in a swimming accident (circumstances not clear, but high level of blood alcohol found - my remaining uncle says in jest that the problem was not the drinking, but that he went swimming).

I have very little contact with people who take hard drugs (or I just don't see the signs in the others). Three I know of and one I suspect.

[lego]

I don't know if legalizing (taking out the criminal element and preventing children from getting addicted) is a way to eliminate drugs (by preventing children from getting access).
No, it's not a way to eliminate drugs. But it's a way to limit the damage that drug abuse does to society. Even to those individuals who are addicted; if nothing else having a "safe" supply of "clean" drugs lowers the likelihood of an accidental OD. While there will always be a fraction of the population that is so addicted that it's effectively useless (or worse), many drug users are able to cope and can lead their lives despite their addiction. Not criminalizing them and making it easier and cheaper to buy the drugs they need helps them doing just that. Even with those whom I've labeled as useless, it's much better to just give them their drugs instead of having them roam the streets and rob people.

[topjohn5]

topjohn5, I see your point (economy of illegal drug dealing).

I don't know if legalizing (taking out the criminal element and preventing children from getting addicted) is a way to eliminate drugs (by preventing children from getting access).

I never suggested it was a way to eliminate drugs, lol....I seriously doubt there is any way to stop addiction at all. I certainly never suggested it and in fact said the opposite.


Thank goodness that at least there is a little sense happening with a new trend to legalize pot.
I disagree.

I am against smoking, drinking and hard drugs. This a war on three fronts: The damage done by smoking to the individual (cancer) is larger than by alcohol (reasonable drinking), but people high on nicotine don't beat their wives or cause accidents by drink driving. Hard drugs affect fewer people (therefore the total damage is smaller), but for those who take them it can be life destroying.

Again, I do not think you will get anyone here (well maybe here you might find some, lol) who thinks addiction is a good thing. It is highly damaging to the person and others. The question is Christian what is the best response to addiction. THE WAR is not the answer....THE WAR is a failure. THE WAR has caused more damage than it has helped and destroyed more lives and families than it has helped. It has done nothing to stop addiction or even stopped the flow of drugs. In America we have done what you suggested (except the murder of drug dealers) we have removed drug dealers and the addicts when caught from society and locked them in prisons. To such a great extent have we done this that fully half of all people in prison in America are drug offenders. Nearly 1% of the entire population of the country is in the prison system...........this draconian solution over decades has also done nearly NOTHING helpful. It has however destroyed with a criminal records entire lives and families for no good reason. It has increased crime including murder and theft. It has increased cost a fortune in government spending of prisons and THE WAR.
We and I in particular have many relatives and friends that are addicts of something. Both of my boyfriends in the USA were either drug or alcohol addicted or both. I had a grandfather and uncle who were alcoholics. I dare say everyone in the world has addict relatives or friends.

Sidenote: my grandfather died from lung cancer (after being a heavy smoker for a long time - there are non-smokers who die from lung cancer, but there is a correlation between smoking and cancer), and my uncle died in a swimming accident (circumstances not clear, but high level of blood alcohol found - my remaining uncle says in jest that the problem was not the drinking, but that he went swimming).

I have very little contact with people who take hard drugs (or I just don't see the signs in the others). Three I know of and one I suspect.

Good, I try to avoid them also when I find out...unless that time is found out when years into a relationship, lol.

[Dodger]

Cat...

I believe that I misinterpreted (and over-reacted) to your statements for which I apologize.

Brisbane...

Here's a link to SAA (Sexual Addiction Association) meetings in Brisbane for your reference. Apparently in Australia they have adopted the twelve steps of the American based AA Program to help sex addicts.

I am against smoking, drinking and hard drugs. What a sad individual you are.

The price equilibrium point for the supply of illegal drugs is shifted (sometimes sharply) to the right because of two premiums sellers can command. The first is the premium all monopolists have, especially where the commodity is in great demand. The second is the premium associated with risk, since the commodity is, in relevant jurisdictions, illegal.

Since sellers can command a higher price than a free market would find, buyers spend a greater proportion of their time and income getting their supplies. As well, since the drugs are illegal, users are forced to the margins of society, where they socialise with other like-minded individuals who reinforce their behaviour. This is much like the social behaviour of homosexuals, for example, or that large group of legal drug users, smokers, who congregate together in large numbers near the entrance to their workplaces. To determine the truth of this, you have only to examine the evidence of places where possession "hard" drugs for personal use no longer results in users being marginalised and criminalised. I'm thinking Spain and Portugal and to a lesser extent the Netherlands.

The behaviour you have observed, disapprovingly, is therefore capable of explanation solely from the illegal nature of the goods being supplied, and not from any innate property of those goods. Ask any pharmacologist and you can readily find that nicotine is a far more addictive drug than heroin, yet smokers are not - or have not been until recently - treated as social outcasts.

As to whether smoking harms society because we incur higher health costs caring for the dying smoker is questionable. Society also gains from their abbreviated lifespan by not having to pay out social security benefits for as long. There is also some evidence that, like HIV, there are people with a predisposition to cancer who smoke and get cancer, while others smoke but do not.With alcohol, there is substantial evidence that wine in particular is good for one's health, when drunk in moderation, and beer has long been a substitute for water in places where the cleanliness of the water supply cannot be guaranteed - even Moslems drink it, although Islam forbids drinking alcohol (perhaps you should convert??).

You, after all, are a sex-obsessive yet I'm guessing you take precautions against STDs and HIV (crabs are more difficult to prevent). Sex, like alcohol, smoking, heroin and cocaine, should be taken in moderation.

There are fuckwits everywhere Dodger and up-themselves Aussies trying to be Americans are among the worst.

[Manforallseasons]

I think a point not to be overlooked is the OP's lack of judgemenr in some he chooses to associate with.

[topjohn5]

I am against smoking, drinking and hard drugs. What a sad individual you are.

The price equilibrium point for the supply of illegal drugs is shifted (sometimes sharply) to the right because of two premiums sellers can command. The first is the premium all monopolists have, especially where the commodity is in great demand. The second is the premium associated with risk, since the commodity is, in relevant jurisdictions, illegal.

Since sellers can command a higher price than a free market would find, buyers spend a greater proportion of their time and income getting their supplies. As well, since the drugs are illegal, users are forced to the margins of society, where they socialise with other like-minded individuals who reinforce their behaviour. This is much like the social behaviour of homosexuals, for example, or that large group of legal drug users, smokers, who congregate together in large numbers near the entrance to their workplaces. To determine the truth of this, you have only to examine the evidence of places where possession "hard" drugs for personal use no longer results in users being marginalised and criminalised. I'm thinking Spain and Portugal and to a lesser extent the Netherlands.

The behaviour you have observed, disapprovingly, is therefore capable of explanation solely from the illegal nature of the goods being supplied, and not from any innate property of those goods. Ask any pharmacologist and you can readily find that nicotine is a far more addictive drug than heroin, yet smokers are not - or have not been until recently - treated as social outcasts.

As to whether smoking harms society because we incur higher health costs caring for the dying smoker is questionable. Society also gains from their abbreviated lifespan by not having to pay out social security benefits for as long. There is also some evidence that, like HIV, there are people with a predisposition to cancer who smoke and get cancer, while others smoke but do not.With alcohol, there is substantial evidence that wine in particular is good for one's health, when drunk in moderation, and beer has long been a substitute for water in places where the cleanliness of the water supply cannot be guaranteed - even Moslems drink it, although Islam forbids drinking alcohol (perhaps you should convert??).

You, after all, are a sex-obsessive yet I'm guessing you take precautions against STDs and HIV (crabs are more difficult to prevent). Sex, like alcohol, smoking, heroin and cocaine, should be taken in moderation.

Great post Komme....although I'm not sure I'd classify him as sad.....certainly "off", "touched", maybe looney, sex obsessed for sure. However, this group, on this board might skew the numbers in that direction anyway...me included :))
As you alluded to this in your post there certainly is evidence both scientific and personal that there are genetic links to fighting not only addiction in general as I mentioned before but also specifically genes that can fight off diseases that an average person without these genes would likely succumb. On a personal note...my father has been a heavy smoker for his entire life and he is nearly 96 years old, lol. He is obviously addicted to nicotine but he likely has genes that are protecting him in some way as well. It certainly would not be something a smoker should bet on however to have these genes, lol.
I have as well protection from most but not all HIV (by having 2 copies of the ccr5 delta 32 allele). Two copies of this from both parents is normal in about 1% of Caucasians while having one copy is in around 20% and helps with protection. It is nearly absent in the Mongoloid and Negroid population. Scientists believe it occurred in Europe due to the many plagues and likely protects people who have it from plagues like smallpox or bubonic and just happens to work on HIV. There is one strain of HIV that has a different way into the cell however and it doesn't protect you from it.
My knowledge of my DNA came from the fact that one of my boyfriends in the USA had HIV and I had unprotected sex with him for 4+ years. When tested I didn't have HIV. I was asked later if I would be in a study group....there were several groups being studied at the time....like female sex workers in Africa, hahahaha....but also people like me who frankly should have been infected.
By the way, my ex-bf knew he had HIV before we met. He lied to me when I asked at the beginning of the relationship if he had been recently tested....nice huh? That was the last time I believed someone about their HIV status....with the next bf we went and got tested together, lol.

[topjohn5]

I think a point not to be overlooked is the OP's lack of judgemenr in some he chooses to associate with.

It is so rare to find someone as intelligent, young and beautiful as yourself to possess the "perfection gene" as well.

[francois]

-.... even Moslems drink it, although Islam forbids drinking alcohol (perhaps you should convert??).
.

Oh, oh, a Christian-Muslin and a circumcision; how cruel of you kommentariat.

[Surfcrest]

The price equilibrium point for the supply of illegal drugs is shifted (sometimes sharply) to the right because of two premiums sellers can command. The first is the premium all monopolists have, especially where the commodity is in great demand. The second is the premium associated with risk, since the commodity is, in relevant jurisdictions, illegal.
While I too, would expect that to be true...such is not the case here in Vancouver. You can buy Marijuana illegally from a dealer for the same price you can buy it legally, from a medicinal dispensary. It is only slightly more expensive in the medicinal dispensaries currently operating contrary to regulations...ie. allowing kids to buy with minimal documentation.



Since sellers can command a higher price than a free market would find, buyers spend a greater proportion of their time and income getting their supplies. As well, since the drugs are illegal, users are forced to the margins of society, where they socialise with other like-minded individuals who reinforce their behaviour. This is much like the social behaviour of homosexuals, for example, or that large group of legal drug users, smokers, who congregate together in large numbers near the entrance to their workplaces. To determine the truth of this, you have only to examine the evidence of places where possession "hard" drugs for personal use no longer results in users being marginalised and criminalised. I'm thinking Spain and Portugal and to a lesser extent the Netherlands.

What point are you trying to make kommentariat? That all hard drug users hang out together? We allow hard drug use here in Vancouver and we provide support resources in the areas of the city where we allow that activity to happen. This should keep it out of the rest of the city, but it does not. Hard drug users come from all walks of life. They live in the ghettos, they live in multi million dollar mansions along the waterfront. The mess they leave behind affects the lives of those around them. Our city has learned too late that there are other negative spin-off's to hard drug use that affect the community. The amount of car theft, house break-in's outside of the drug use areas to supply the habits makes us all feel uneasy.



As to whether smoking harms society because we incur higher health costs caring for the dying smoker is questionable. Society also gains from their abbreviated lifespan by not having to pay out social security benefits for as long. There is also some evidence that, like HIV, there are people with a predisposition to cancer who smoke and get cancer, while others smoke but do not.With alcohol, there is substantial evidence that wine in particular is good for one's health, when drunk in moderation, and beer has long been a substitute for water in places where the cleanliness of the water supply cannot be guaranteed - even Moslems drink it, although Islam forbids drinking alcohol (perhaps you should convert??).

You, after all, are a sex-obsessive yet I'm guessing you take precautions against STDs and HIV (crabs are more difficult to prevent). Sex, like alcohol, smoking, heroin and cocaine, should be taken in moderation.
The social harm for smoking comes from the health care costs for those countries with public health care structures, like Canada. I think that was the argument for when we went through the smoking revolution many years ago...and besides smokers only represent a tiny minority of the population here now. I compare that to Turkey, where I recently returned from where it feels like everyone smokes...that the revolution is just starting to happen there with a recent ban in indoor public spaces and hotel rooms.

While I haven't heard the government complaining about a deficit with old age benefits or Canada pension plan benefits...I do know some pension plans have had to restructure now that the average lifespan has increased to somewhere in our early eighties.


The main reason for addiction is genetic and until we figure out how to fix it (if ever we do) then this will never end.
I tend to agree. The law of natural selection means that we as a species are evolving just like all the others on the planet, through gene mutation and how we adapt to our environment. You don't fix it, you simply wait for it to run it's course. We are the survivors of our ancestors, people who have survived drought, and illness and natural disasters or simply amazing circumstance (like war, violent crime or being killed at work) and we are stronger for it. Evolution is always weeding out the weaknesses in our gene pool despite modern medicine and resources and no doubt, addiction has been and will continue to be one of those weaknesses.

Surfcrest

[gaymandenmark]

well, I can only take the comments from christrianpfc about killing drugdealers seriously, if he use his own gun, not the one in his underwear, or a rope to kill. Can you please send a link to Youtube?

[gaymandenmark]

Loved Christian's suggestion of sending miscreants to a "work camp" - wonder where he got that idea from :))

Sorry to say it, but he is German, even from the Eastern part of it, German Democratic Republic, also called DDR.

One of the tentative conclusions I've come to in life, Surfcrest, is that people's most deeply held beliefs are not particularly amenable to change via presenting facts. It's almost as if we arrive at an opinion and then select the facts that bolster our beliefs. The gradual acceptance of homosexuals in our societies is a good example.

Fifty years ago homosexuals were "perverts" as far as most people were concerned. Their opinion was not changed by facts so much as by their fathers, uncles, brothers, cousins, neighbours and community leaders being prepared to say "I'm a homosexual" and forcing them to reconsider their attitudes.

I don't believe therefore that your perceptions of drug addicts are going to change until you start finding in your circle of - if not friends, then acquaintances - recreational heroin or cocaine users who are otherwise leading a life similar to your own, who are not creating a "mess" that "affects the lives of those around them" - I assume you mean adversely. Whether Vancouver does not prosecute personal use is irrelevant. Drugs like heroin and cocaine are only expensive, leading to "car theft, house break-ins outside of the drug use areas to supply the habits", because society decides to make them expensive. It continues to restrict the supply artificially - which was precisely the point my opening statement was making.

However I'm under no illusion that the facts will persuade you because facts, by themselves, rarely persuade anyway. Whatever we may think of Al Gore and his film on the environment, its title said it all. Sometimes truth is inconvenient, and when facts are uncomfortable or inconvenient it's far, far easier to ignore them. We can, after all, produce a raft of facts convenient to ourselves to counter those other inconvenient truths, as you have just done.

[Surfcrest]

I don't believe therefore that your perceptions of drug addicts are going to change until you start finding in your circle of - if not friends, then acquaintances - recreational heroin or cocaine users who are otherwise leading a life similar to your own, who are not creating a "mess" that "affects the lives of those around them" - I assume you mean adversely. Whether Vancouver does not prosecute personal use is irrelevant. Drugs like heroin and cocaine are only expensive, leading to "car theft, house break-ins outside of the drug use areas to supply the habits", because society decides to make them expensive. It continues to restrict the supply artificially - which was precisely the point my opening statement was making.

I do know plenty of heroine and cocaine users, although I'd hardly categorize any of them as being "recreational". It would be difficult not to live in the gay ghetto of the city, going out to all hours night with friends here at the clubs without bumping into people snorting lines. As for heroine users, I have my fair share on the payroll that we have to deal with, because here in Canada "addiction" is classified as a medical condition and so good luck getting rid of them. The hard drug users that I know, are either dead...or heading there fast.

The same applies here in Thailand to Yaba. Perhaps someone knows a happy ending Yaba story, but I certainly don't. The "bar boys" exist in a world of many temptations, especially when they have money in hand. Yaba can swallow them up...as well as suspecting /unsuspecting farangs standing too close, not to mention the heartache.

I'm definitely with latintopxxx on this one.

Surfcrest


and as for the money boys...those I really dont care, I only use them short time before moving on. Sounds cold...I know...but they are only there to serve a very specific purpose, I dont wanna befriend them or even converse with them.

I do know plenty of heroine and cocaine users, although I'd hardly categorize any of them as being "recreational". It would be difficult not to live in the gay ghetto of the city, going out to all hours night with friends here at the clubs without bumping into people snorting lines. As for heroine users, I have my fair share on the payroll that we have to deal with, because here in Canada "addiction" is classified as a medical condition and so good luck getting rid of them. The hard drug users that I know, are either dead...or heading there fast.I'm not sure why you expect me to waste my time explaining a term like "recreational drug use" to you when it is clearly set out in Wikipedia. From what you say you encounter drug users ("without bumping into people snorting lines") but that's not the same as having friends who are drug users. I have a number of friends who use heroin in the same way as the person who says "I only smoke cigarettes at parties". They are neither dead, dying, nor on their way to be so (except in the sense that we are all dying). The same goes for my friends who are HIV+. And none of them make the lives of those around them a less desirable environment.

How awful for you. Addiction is a medical condition. Well I never. Like schizophrenia you mean? Being gay used to be described as a medical condition too.

I can't answer for your love affair with Hollywood so it would be pointless for me to discuss your involvement with "heroine" users; the mind boggles at what that might entail.

[Surfcrest]

From what you say you encounter drug users ("without bumping into people snorting lines") but that's not the same as having friends who are drug users.
Sure it is and you'd know that if you were there. No one is asking you to waste your time explaining what might be found in Wikipedia or answer any question that hasn't been asked. I simply doubt you know what you're talking about or you wouldn't be trying to lump it in with the homosexual cause or now the HIV cause...which of course, it has nothing to do with.

Surfcrest

[catawampuscat]

When has 'knowing what you're talking about', ever stopped some from pontificating and
showing how smart and superior they are?
Rhetorical question, of course, tinged with sarcasm, in case some take everything
literally.

Evidently Surfcrest - and I use the word "evidently" in its strict sense of "from the evidence" - you have no idea what an analogy is nor how analogies are used. No matter. As I said in my very first long post on this topic, facts don't change people's perceptions, and if they are inconvenient facts they are simply ignored - or more usually (as in your post) countered with ad hominem statements and dismissals. I bid you good day.

When has 'knowing what you're talking about', ever stopped some from pontificating and showing how smart and superior they are? Rhetorical question, of course, tinged with sarcasm, in case some take everything literally.I realise now that it's a bit of a toss up as to whether the dregs of humanity live in Pattaya or the drug infested slums of whatever ghastly Canadian city it is that is Surfcrest's abode, but it's probably not a good idea to parade your inferiority complex irrespective.

[Surfcrest]

Evidently Surfcrest - and I use the word "evidently" in its strict sense of "from the evidence" - you have no idea what an analogy is nor how analogies are used.
I think it's a long, hard stretch to compare homosexuality and its causes or HIV with hard drug use. The beauty of a really good analogy is in the comparison and I'm afraid you're a bit off the mark(s) with both examples. I'm still hoping someone can share a "happy ending" yaba story, so I can have a different, non-Hollywood belief about hard drugs...here in Thailand, for starters.

Anyone who thinks casual hard drug use is "okay" is just yanking your chain. I think if you are over here in Thailand, you need to be aware of the issue and watchful for yourself...simple as that. I think Catawampuscat has clearly illustrated how complex and costly this particular issue has been for this guy and possibly whomever he's close with.

Surfcrest

(Congrats kommie!)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/Surfcrest/kommentariat-1.jpg

[LoveThailand]

Thai laws on drugs is another compelling reason not to - even for those who have "relaxed" attitudes to drug use.